To screen or to not screen? Cables

[Clive197]

First of all I’m not trying to start a mains cable argument but am genuinely interested trying to get to the bottom of the screen or unscreened discussion.
I’ve in the past been of the opinion that screened mains cables was the way to go. Following a long conversation with James at Whest Audio who told me not to use a screened mains cable, not to use a filtered mains conditioner and plug directly into the wall socket with an unscreened cable.
This peeked my interest and with a friend present we started to experiment. I used the unscreened mains cable that came with the Phono Stage and it sounded so much better than the screened cable I had been using. This led me to try some Black Rhodium Libra mains cable which is unscreened. The SQ quality improved once again with wider soundstage and smoother, deeper bass.
As a further trial I decided to use the same cable on my Aries G1 and once again SQ improved, not as much as the phonostage but a definite improvement.
My dilemma now is should I replace the screened cables on by BluRay player and pre-amp

James went on to tell me that the BBC did a lot of tests in the seventies with mains cables and could find no gain in using screened ones and in fact found screened to be detrimental. Something about the electron flow being bounced back by the screen and thus producing distortion.

I don’t pretend to know or understand the science and can only judge what my ears hear. If you can’t hear any differences with mains cables, that’s all well and good, I’m not trying to argue with you. I’m just interested in this bit about screening, Does this affect all cables?

[Jazid]

I am not a believer in mains cable effects, so don't be surprised that I cannot imagine any possible reason why they should make a difference, beyond simple wish fulfilment.

Nor I am not so blinkered that I don't accept new findings...

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[struth]

Good post Clive and interesting read.
I'm not in the mains cable brigade but I do see that plenty folk do find it important.

[Jazid]

If this effect is real then it rather makes me wonder if all the screened interconnects and signal wires, let alone TV aerial wires and screened RF equipment is similarly sub-optimal?

Maybe Nordost are on to something after all? [emoji16]

I realise this is thread drift but what are your feelings about interconnect sonics and have you tried unscreened variants there? I have a couple of pairs, no objection to how they may sound at all, but difficult to eliminate hum without careful placement.

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[winstonmalcolm]

If this effect is real then it rather makes me wonder if all the screened interconnects and signal wires, let alone TV aerial wires and screened RF equipment is similarly sub-optimal?

Maybe Nordost are on to something after all? [emoji16]

I realise this is thread drift but what are your feelings about interconnect sonics and have you tried unscreened variants there? I have a couple of pairs, no objection to how they may sound at all, but difficult to eliminate hum without careful placement.

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My (limited) understanding is that signal wires are screened because the signals carried are small and therefore more susceptible to noise hence the screening. This leads into another recent discussion on directional cable and again my understanding is the explanation for directional cable is that the screen is only connected at one end therefore any noise caught by the screen is directed to the component (and earthed) at the end of the interconnect that the screen is connected to only.

[Stryder5]

My (limited) understanding is that signal wires are screened because the signals carried are small and therefore more susceptible to noise hence the screening. This leads into another recent discussion on directional cable and again my understanding is the explanation for directional cable is that the screen is only connected at one end therefore any noise caught by the screen is directed to the component (and earthed) at the end of the interconnect that the screen is connected to only.

These are my observations on my system, different systems may react differently.

I have tried interconnects configured :-

Screen connected at both ends.
Screen connected at source end.
Screen connected at receive end
Screen not connected at all.

All with the cable conductors in line with lettering, assuming that this is the direction of conductor extrusion.

The cable with the screen connected at source end was better in only one case, the turntable, this negated hum, noise, in fact any interference.

CD transport to DAC, DAC to amplifier no screen connected, sounded superior.

I tried screened mains cable, it sounded worse in every case, most noticeable on DAC.

Make of this what you will.

Gary

[Bigman80]

This really is cable dependant.

I've had a large number of cables through here and I can tell you, different cables react differently to the norm.

As a rule of thumb, if a Turntable is involved, I always attach the screen at source end only.

If not, then the screen isn't really necessary IMO however I have noticed differences when it hasn't been connected to an identical cable that has one end connected.

I do also recall making a pair of Klotz5000 cables with the screen attached which I thought were a bit veiled. I removed the screen and felt it was better but others have reported a different account.

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[winstonmalcolm]

These are my observations on my system, different systems may react differently.

I have tried interconnects configured :-

Screen connected at both ends.
Screen connected at source end.
Screen connected at receive end
Screen not connected at all.

All with the cable conductors in line with lettering, assuming that this is the direction of conductor extrusion.

The cable with the screen connected at source end was better in only one case, the turntable, this negated hum, noise, in fact any interference.

CD transport to DAC, DAC to amplifier no screen connected, sounded superior.

I tried screened mains cable, it sounded worse in every case, most noticeable on DAC.

Make of this what you will.

Gary


I don't doubt what you say at all, I'm sure the presents of a screen can have a detrimental effect on sound.

[Clive197]

Well, I’ve been thinking (I know dangerous). I started this thread really about screening on mains cables, but thinking about it, how many manufacturers put in a screened mains cable in the 1st place. Answer to my knowledge NONE. If manufacturers of expensive kit thought it was important, surely they would put a screened cable in the box in the 1st instance. All the kit that I have and previously purchased have come with a bog standard unscreened mains lead. So who thought it would be a good idea to sell us a screened mains lead and tell us it’s a must have and the best thing since sliced bread.

[Bigman80]

Would they though? That's the thing about manufacturers, they don't usually go the extra mile.

A lot of this is down to your mains quality. I suspect if you have an excellent mains conditioning unit, there will be little to no reason for fancy mains cables.
Well, I’ve been thinking (I know dangerous). I started this thread really about screening on mains cables, but thinking about it, how many manufacturers put in a screened mains cable in the 1st place. Answer to my knowledge NONE. If manufacturers of expensive kit thought it was important, surely they would put a screened cable in the box in the 1st instance. All the kit that I have and previously purchased have come with a bog standard unscreened mains lead. So who thought it would be a good idea to sell us a screened mains lead and tell us it’s a must have and the best thing since sliced bread.

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[Stryder5]

Would they though? That's the thing about manufacturers, they don't usually go the extra mile.

A lot of this is down to your mains quality. I suspect if you have an excellent mains conditioning unit, there will be little to no reason for fancy mains cables.

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Depends on what you call fancy?

I have no mains conditioning, but I do use Kimber Cable mains leads, I heard an improvement using them. I guess you could call them fancy, they do not have screens though.

Gary

[WESTLOWER]

I was getting a fair degree of mechanical wurring and farting noise at the beginning of digital playback, coming in from the computer / roon server.
After much messing and trial and error I eliminated the noise by taking the unscreened interconnect cable out between Power and Pre amp and swapping in a screened cable. Result NO noise at all now, and no noticeable difference in sound quality. Now I would expect screened cables to be essential between phono & SUT for example but this was puzzling.

[Clive197]

Would they though? That's the thing about manufacturers, they don't usually go the extra mile.

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There I would beg to differ. I think a lot of makers will go the extra mile. Having been in the industry I can say that some are fully committed to providing a great product and good customer care but sadly not all.

[Bigman80]

There I would beg to differ. I think a lot of makers will go the extra mile. Having been in the industry I can say that some are fully committed to providing a great product and good customer care but sadly not all.SOME may be, others certainly aren't.

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[Qwin]

PS Audio don't provide leads with their products, out of the box.
But they do make/sell mains leads (3 types) for their HiFi products and mains conditioners, these cables are all screened.

I personally don't use screened (even on my PS Audio Pre) and just use ordinary household mains cable with a decent thickness of copper, as I've yet to hear a fancy mains cable make a difference. I must admit to only trying this twice, but I couldn't hear anything change. Still if folks find they work for them I'm not going to knock it.
We all have our own preferences, whether it be MM/MC, Valve/SS, RCA/Balanced, OB/Ported/sealed, etc etc, we like what we like. :)

[YNWaN]

Of the cables I have tried and experimented with I have always preferred those that do not have the shield connected at one end only..

[Qwin]

My Phono stage (Aqvox 2Ci II) is a fully balanced current amplifier.
The manufacturer recommends an un-shielded twisted pair (for low inductance) to be used between TT/Phono stage.
In their own leads, they run a separate straight wire in the jacket connected to ground at just the Phono stage end, as a kind of aerial to pick up stray interference. This third wire is not part of the twisted pair.