To be Passive or to Not be Passive that is the Question?

[AJSki2fly]

So my set up at present has a Tisbury passive pre-amp which I originally purchased when setting up my system with a Project Xperience 2 deck, and Meridian 508 CD player and using a Meridian 557 power amp. At the time it was a cost effective solution, and in my mind I thought that at a later stage I would possibly replace the Tisbury with a powered pre-amp. Since then I have upgraded to the Renaissance RA01 tube mono-blocks and invested in the Gyrodec, SME arm and LFD Phono. I left the Tisbury in place as once again it seemed the most neutral part of the chain.

However in recent weeks I have been given the opportunity to test at home a powered pre-amp, and I was hoping this might be an improvement but after several listens with 10 carefully selected tracks I found i did not like the result, and in fact thought it was a step backwards. I have been told that there are benefits of a powered pre-amp over passive one and visa versa. I would be interested in others views and any advise on this subject would be great?

Thanks

Adrian

[Bigman80]

Hi Adrian,

Passive vs active debates are as old as god's dog. It's been done to death.

The condensed version,

Passive: Simple, No gain, no fuss design. Less is more type approach. Can have flappy bass and lack drive. Longer runs of interconnects are undesirable usually and depending on the method/Quality of attenuation it can lose as much detail as a crap active

Active: More components, more is more type of approach. Gain for lower output phonostages that need it. More drive to the sound usually. Longer cable runs are less of an issue. Sometimes less transparent than passives but not always the case. Attenuation is equally important but usually the Stepped attenuator or wiper type.

Unity gain preamp: Same as an active, just no gain.

All preamps sound different. Its very difficult to find the right one for your taste too. I use a Unity Gain pre and I prefer it to all I've tried.

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[Bigman80]

I would echo what Bigman has said with the exception of:

Flappy bass? That's a new criticism to me. "Lacking drive" seems to be the most common criticism amongst passives' detractors.

Active preamps with unity gain are just active preamps. The "unity gain" bit is irrelevant.
Passive preamps are also (or can be) unity gain.I couldn't think of the word for The bass [emoji23][emoji23] bass is tighter in an active pre. That's what I was going for.

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[tlscapital]

I couldn't think of the word for The bass [emoji23][emoji23] bass is tighter in an active pre. That's what I was going for.

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The opposite to tighter (bass) could flappy which suits better than a generic loose (bass) ?! :eek: You're all good there.

[Bigman80]

The opposite to tighter (bass) could flappy which suits better than a generic loose (bass) ?! :eek: You're all good there.Thanks mate. Good to know!!

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[AJSki2fly]

Hi Adrian,

Passive vs active debates are as old as god's dog. It's been done to death.

The condensed version,

Passive: Simple, No gain, no fuss design. Less is more type approach. Can have flappy bass and lack drive. Longer runs of interconnects are undesirable usually and depending on the method/Quality of attenuation it can lose as much detail as a crap active

Active: More components, more is more type of approach. Gain for lower output phonostages that need it. More drive to the sound usually. Longer cable runs are less of an issue. Sometimes less transparent than passives but not always the case. Attenuation is equally important but usually the Stepped attenuator or wiper type.

Unity gain preamp: Same as an active, just no gain.

All preamps sound different. Its very difficult to find the right one for your taste too. I use a Unity Gain pre and I prefer it to all I've tried.

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

Mmmm? :hmm: Thanks for the answer Oliver, and thanks to Andrew as well.

Yes it is pretty much as I thought, sounds like I need to continue auditioning until I find an active pre-amp that fits in with my system and at least is as good or improves to overall sound as I hear it. It is all quite difficult really as a lot of the end result is affected by the room and its influence of everything. This is also slightly concerning as after a lot of investment into getting a system that I like the sound of I know that in about 5 years we will be down sizing and then I will have the issue of how it reproduces in the new abode. :eek::rolleyes:

[Bigman80]

Every change will make a difference and that's why we can only talk of our own experience. There is no one size fits all in this game.

Try as much as you can and see where you end up.

Good luck.
Mmmm? :hmm: Thanks for the answer Oliver, and thanks to Andrew as well.

Yes it is pretty much as I thought, sounds like I need to continue auditioning until I find an active pre-amp that fits in with my system and at least is as good or improves to overall sound as I hear it. It is all quite difficult really as a lot of the end result is affected by the room and its influence of everything. This is also slightly concerning as after a lot of investment into getting a system that I like the sound of I know that in about 5 years we will be down sizing and then I will have the issue of how it reproduces in the new abode. :eek::rolleyes:

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[Yomanze]

Some amps have buffer stages built in, which turn the incoming input impedance, potentially high, into a constant low impedance one into the next amplifier stage. In essence, the 'active preamp or buffer circuitry' is built into the amp already, all you need to do is have another box to control source selection and volume.

Some amps do not have buffer stages built in, which makes them more sensitive to higher and varying source / passive pre output impedance. In this case, you can either add a buffer stage (no gain), or an active pre (with gain).

I bet the Meridian is buffered on its inputs.

[Pigmy Pony]

Mmmm? :hmm: Thanks for the answer Oliver, and thanks to Andrew as well.

Yes it is pretty much as I thought, sounds like I need to continue auditioning until I find an active pre-amp that fits in with my system and at least is as good or improves to overall sound as I hear it. It is all quite difficult really as a lot of the end result is affected by the room and its influence of everything. This is also slightly concerning as after a lot of investment into getting a system that I like the sound of I know that in about 5 years we will be down sizing and then I will have the issue of how it reproduces in the new abode. :eek::rolleyes:

Hi Adrian,

Don't be worrying about 5 years from now - right now is where you live! :)

If you get where you like the sound, a change of abode should only require a few tweaks perhaps, at worst a change of speakers.

[Macca]

Hi Adrian,

Don't be worrying about 5 years from now - right now is where you live! :)

If you get where you like the sound, a change of abode should only require a few tweaks perhaps, at worst a change of speakers.

I agree, people make far too much of this room business. Boomy speakers aside a good system will sound good wherever you plonk it down. You can make it better with a good room and careful positioning but it won't go from sounding pleasant to sounding awful just because the room changes size and shape a bit.


Plus getting a smaller house doesn't automatically mean a smaller listening room. I'm in a 2 bed terrace but my room is 12' x 29' x 9.5'

[Idlewithnodrive]

Passive pre's need careful matching, impedance wise, with the Power amp.

Poorly matched and you will lose drive / dynamic impact, properly matched you most certainly will not.

I had always owned active pre's, as I just didn't rate any passive I had tried, until my current set-up. I won't be going back to active now :D

[Macca]

Good active pre-amps are rare and expensive, even second hand.

It's weird though, vinyl seems to me to be more forgiving of the pre-amp. Whereas moving from a mediocre active pre to a decent passive in a digital system can be revelatory.

[Lawrence001]

Passive pre's need careful matching, impedance wise, with the Power amp.

Poorly matched and you will lose drive / dynamic impact, properly matched you most certainly will not.

I had always owned active pre's, as I just didn't rate any passive I had tried, until my current set-up. I won't be going back to active now :DStill using my old one?

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[montesquieu]

Good active pre-amps are rare and expensive, even second hand.

It's weird though, vinyl seems to me to be more forgiving of the pre-amp. Whereas moving from a mediocre active pre to a decent passive in a digital system can be revelatory.

Crap or mediocre pre, perhaps. I simply refuse to believe that a passive can come close to a decent active preamp - I have certainly never heard a passive set-up I could live with long-term.

[Jimbo]

Crap or mediocre pre, perhaps. I simply refuse to believe that a passive can come close to a decent active preamp - I have certainly never heard a passive set-up I could live with long-term.

I agree with you on this one Tom. My experience has bought me to the same conclusion.

[Idlewithnodrive]

I am Lawrence:)

[Idlewithnodrive]

My previous 30 years had lead me to believe the same, until my current set-up.

Now I am losing nothing but nor am I adding anything :)

[Lawrence001]

My previous 30 years had lead me to believe the same, until my current set-up.

Now I am losing nothing but nor am I adding anything :)I should have let Tom hear it first :)

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[Idlewithnodrive]

I should have let Tom hear it first :)

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Yes, it's odd how you think you've heard it all, then, Bang, something different turns your hard earned wisdom right on its head