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Bigman80
15-09-2018, 18:36
Amplifier Shoot-Out

Currently sat in my front room are 5 amplifiers. I can only imagine this being a long post at this point so apologies in advance.

The First of the "New boys" to arrive here was the Monarch Audio SM-70, 25w per channel of Class A (or not, depending on your view on what Class A is).

Monarch SM-70 Class A
The Monarchy came to me with a high standing review from Walpurgis. I was slightly hesitant about whether this amplifier could improve on the Firebottle Monoblocks i had. Unfortunately, i never got the chance to try to do the comparison because the car failed the MOT miserably. Something had to be sold. I chose to sell the FB-Monos because i could get another pair and i'd never seen a SM-70 for sale in the UK before this one.

I plumbed in the SM-70 and instantly regretted my decision. It was thin, harsh and totally different to anything i have tried here. I was gutted. Still the car was on the road and in a few weeks i could look for something else. Whilst driving the car to work, a thought hit me, the valves in the Phonostage were Telefunkens and they had been called thin and harsh by someone on the forum previously. I decided to try a different combo of valves. In went two Tesla PCC88's and a Tesla ECC83.

I decided to play a track i knew well, Carousel Waltz – Dire Straits.

Instantly a smile was plastered to my face. The sound was transformed into something unrecognizable from before and i was very happy to hear it. I played well into the evening and probably had 30 LP's lying on the piano. I just couldn't stop listening, Why?

Lucidity and transparency. I'll be straight up, I haven't had THAT much exposure to amplifiers in my own home but this one was clearly special. The imaging was wonderful, truly magical. Ry Cooder on "Chicken Skin music" just appeared out of thin air, his ensemble of musicians had a spotlight on them and the backing singers were clear and present. It was that which i noticed most than with other amps here, the backing singers weren't as "backing" as usual. I was delighted at what i was hearing. As i went on, more things started to come to light.

This little amp was very Dynamic. The bass punches out, but it clean bass, the detail and finger slides on John Deacons bass on "Another one bites the dust" were clean and i am convinced this is only possible due to the transparency of the unit. There is absolutely nothing in the way of whats being reproduced and its audible. It's soundtage is 3D in the truest sense of the word.

My Search for an amplifier was over, or so i thought. I got a Message from Walpurgis. "I have two Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro's. Do you want them?" I obviously bought them!!!

I took this Mini Beast to Maccas for a little test against his big Krell, the KSA50s. After a good listen to the Krell we plumbed in the SM-70. I have to be honest, the Krell sounded bigger. Soundstage was impressive from both and there was no veiling of the sound from the Krell. I was so impressed with how close the little SM-70 ran the Krell. It did sound a little leaner in Maccas system as it was digital but the difference was there in tone from the Krell. I was convinced the two Monarchy SM-70Pros might be up to the task of usurping the KSA50S from my memory.

Monarchy SM-70PRO's (Bridged mode)
I set up the PRO's and sat back in expectation of more of the same from these as i had experienced from the single SM-70. I wasn't disappointing. Much of the same traits were there, the clean pure sound, the sound stage was bigger due to having two amps in bridged mode. There was more scale and the channel separation was excellent. These were excellent BUT i missed something from the SM-70. I couldn't out my finger on it but i preferred the SM-70. The SM-70 was slightly more forward and i liked that. It felt intimate using the Pros to listen to Nirvana – Unplugged. Kurts distressed vocals and the sound stage seemed lifelike and spacious, Dave Grohl's drumming was clean and fast. I loved it.

I put the SM-70Pros back in and again, i'm smiling and rocking in the chair. It was close but the SM-70 went back in. To stay this time.........or so i thought.

Krell KSA100 MK2
I'd been listening to the SM-70 for a few weeks now and i loved it, waxing lyrical to anyone who'd listen to me. This was a fantastic amp. No doubt about it. It competed with the much bigger (and far more expensive) KSA50A and I did not leave Maccas thinking, "I need a Krell!" but the itch didn't leave.

After abandoning the world wide search for a SM-70 to partner to mine, another amp on my "to try" list popped up. A Luxkit Z504 Avance. I ordered it from Denmark and was waiting patiently when this Krell KSA100 MK2 came to my attention. Surely i didn;t need another amp. I turned to the forum for much needed advice. The advice was varied. In fact, it was mainly negative. Things like the components suffering due to heat, expensive service bills, heat in the room, unsophisticated circuit, etc.

I ignored all of the advice to the negative and went to buy it.

The Krell is a monster. 40KG+ and built like a tank. I plugged it in, waiting to be blown away.

It didn't happen.

The first track i played was "Neighbor Neighbor – ZZ Top"

I dropped the needle and sat down in anticipation. The track started and i got up to check the SP10 was ok. It was so slow sounding that i though the TT had broken. Gone was the rhythm, the pace, the immediacy that i had heard from all of the Monarchy's. I was gutted. Sat there perplexed, i remembered that i had swapped the valves previously. Back in went the Telefunkens and a better pair of interconnects. No Spotfires yet.

I restarted the same track. I wasn't overly enthusiastic but then the track started. YES!! this is what i wanted. Sound stage was huge, seriously huge. I felt like the bass was at my feet and the vocals were coming out about 6ft in the air. The Pioneer speaker were suddenly much bigger. Scale, depth and width were all bigger and every now and again, id hear something, an ambient noise just floating miles away from the speaker. This is the good stuff, the bigboy stuff.

Track after track followed and everything sounded so natural. I'd been in Birmingham earlier in the day and heard a jazz group playing in the Symphony Hall's foyer. I took a serious listen, and couldn't wait to see whether the Krell could match the natural decay and smooth sound. I can tell you now, It's the closest i've got to that natural sound. I was over the moon.

The Krell, apart from sounding huge in every direction, is super smooth. It's like a Cadillac, everything is easy for the Krell, Rock, Jazz, Acoustic, Metal, Rap, it just doesn't care. As this week progressed, the bass was becoming a bit of an issue. The Krell is so good at digging out bass, i was concerned the neighbors would be round. Subterranean beats from "Cypress Hill – Dr Greenthumb" made the room shake. Always under control and the grip they had was brilliant. It doesn't sound as punchy as the Monarchy Audio SM-70 but damn, its deeper.

I have to say though, the SM-70 has the beating of this Krell in immediacy. The Krell cant match it for speed and if i am being hyper critical, i think the SM-70 is more transparent and thus meaning the insight is probably better with the SM-70.

On all other counts, Krell is King. I have no issues with heat or any of the other stuff mentioned in th eadvice and the SQ is fantastic. The Krell is a force to be reckoned with IMO but make no mistake, the SM-70 & SM-70PROs are right there with it.

Friday arrived and with it, the Lux Z504 Avance.

Luxkit/Luxman Avance Z504

To be continued..................

walpurgis
15-09-2018, 18:49
The results don't surprise me Oliver.

I know what you're saying about the SM-70. It's amazingly lucid.

(I still say get a listen to a Destiny 2, it'll blow you away :)....specially with your speakers, trust me!)

Bigman80
15-09-2018, 18:51
The results don't surprise me Oliver.

I know what you're saying about the SM-70. It's amazingly lucid.

(I still say get a listen to a Destiny 2, it'll blow you away :)....specially with your speakers, trust me!)I may do Geoff but I have my eye on something. All depends if I still have a job in a week or two. Changes afoot in the workplace.

The Monarchy is just top draw. People just don't know about them. Already rare as dinosaur droppings and I can see their value rising significantly if people heard them.
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Edward
15-09-2018, 21:06
:popcorn:

Looking forward to your reflections on the Luxman Avance Oli.

Bigman80
15-09-2018, 21:33
:popcorn:

Looking forward to your reflections on the Luxman Avance Oli.I need a week of good listening. I've been lucky this week to be able to listen to the Krell so much. Would normally take a couple of weeks or so to get that much time.



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Ian7633
15-09-2018, 23:35
If anything doesn't come up to standard just drop the Krell on it, that will sort it out :D

Bigman80
16-09-2018, 00:27
If anything doesn't come up to standard just drop the Krell on it, that will sort it out :D[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] that's one idea.

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alphaGT
16-09-2018, 04:28
I told you the Krell was not to be trifled with! And I sympathize with you on the bass. The bass I’m getting from my FPB-300 is HUGE! A song from Uriah Heep, (I can’t recall) from the, “Sea of Light”, album on CD has the lowest bass synth notes I’ve ever heard! And the whole earth trembles. I’m hoping a new preamp will tame it, or perhaps I need smaller speakers? What I don’t need, is a new amp.

But then, Ive never heard the Monarch SM70?

A great write up! I enjoyed reading it.

Russell

Bigman80
16-09-2018, 07:59
I told you the Krell was not to be trifled with! And I sympathize with you on the bass. The bass I’m getting from my FPB-300 is HUGE! A song from Uriah Heep, (I can’t recall) from the, “Sea of Light”, album on CD has the lowest bass synth notes I’ve ever heard! And the whole earth trembles. I’m hoping a new preamp will tame it, or perhaps I need smaller speakers? What I don’t need, is a new amp.

But then, Ive never heard the Monarch SM70?

A great write up! I enjoyed reading it.

RussellThanks Russell,

It's not to be trifled with, that's for sure. It's very impressive but the Monarchy Audio SM-70 lives with it. There's aspects of one, that the other doesn't do as well. That's been the biggest surprise of all. A little amplifier living with that monster.



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jandl100
16-09-2018, 08:52
Sorry :oops: it's me again. :lol:

I still think you are probably not getting the best out of the Krell by giving it an easy load to chew on.

With different, more challenging speakers you may well find the Monarchy slipping behind in the betting.
Mind you, with a more difficult load the Monarchy might not sing quite so fluently. :scratch:
Too many variables. :)

walpurgis
16-09-2018, 09:03
For an alleged 25 watts, the little SM-70 packs a surprising wallop. It had no bother at all driving my Tannoys to silly levels with plenty of grip. Same with my 83db KEF's.

Bigman80
16-09-2018, 09:16
Sorry :oops: it's me again. [emoji38]

I still think you are probably not getting the best out of the Krell by giving it an easy load to chew on.

With different, more challenging speakers you may well find the Monarchy slipping behind in the betting.
Mind you, with a more difficult load the Monarchy might not sing quite so fluently. :scratch:
Too many variables. :)You're could be right, Jerry. In a different situation with loads, the Monarchy may not perform as well. Unfortunately I don't have any other speakers that I could test that out with.

I do suspect that the Krell will drive anything. It's got amazing power.



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jandl100
16-09-2018, 09:18
I had a Monarchy amp - may well have been the SM-70 - I didn't get on with it at all! :zzz:
My Krell KSA50 mk1 had the same sort of signature but a bit less so.

I think we are after different sorts of sounds.
Interesting to see the review of Geoff's fave Creek Destiny 2 amp on TechRadar (https://www.techradar.com/uk/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/creek-destiny-2-926937/review) - a full five stars and strongly recommended but with the comment "Some listeners may find this amp too laid back for its own good". I think I am one of those listeners!

Bigman80
16-09-2018, 09:22
I had a Monarchy amp - may well have been the SM-70 - I didn't get on with it at all! :zzz:
My Krell KSA50 mk1 had the same sort of signature but a bit less so.

I think we are after different sorts of sounds.
Interesting to see the review of Geoff's fave Creek Destiny 2 amp on TechRadar (https://www.techradar.com/uk/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/creek-destiny-2-926937/review) - a full five stars and strongly recommended but with the comment "Some listeners may find this amp too laid back for its own good". I think I am one of those listeners!That's why these things are so subjective. The Monarchy is right up my street in terms of transparency and dynamics but there is an edge that reveals its SS nature. If it had the silk in the treble that the Krell has, it'd be perfection. It's already close.

It's just fun trying these things out and seeing what's available.

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walpurgis
16-09-2018, 09:26
Interesting to see the review of Geoff's fave Creek Destiny 2 amp on TechRadar (https://www.techradar.com/uk/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/creek-destiny-2-926937/review) - a full five stars and strongly recommended but with the comment "Some listeners may find this amp too laid back for its own good". I think I am one of those listeners!

I didn't find it 'laid back', just incredibly clean, transparent and detailed. Plenty of power too.

I think I mentioned before. The Destiny 2 has usurped my mate's EAR 861 driving his modified MG Chatsworths. He was so impressed, he now owns two.

jandl100
16-09-2018, 09:32
I didn't find it 'laid back'

Sure. That's the point.
My laidback is your just right.
We are just after different presentations, as recognised in that review. Some will find it too laidback others won't.

Mr. C
18-09-2018, 14:05
Blimey, if it is laid back for you Jerry than there is no hope for the rest of rest of us :harp:

Packaged arrived thank you :)

Never found the Krell's to be overly smooth, but punchy, slam inducing and overly wayward bass in any other than a large room.

Oli

What about trying a different source / pre in the mix first, though I am inclined to agree with Jerry a stiffer load with the Krell will help.

Bigman80
18-09-2018, 14:20
Hey Tony,

I'd love to but I haven't got anything to swap around with.

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Mr. C
18-09-2018, 14:40
Hi Oli

Maybe one of the chaps on here which is not to far from you could loan you for a couple of days, it may help you isolate the issue for you.

The SM70's are more fluid with the majority of speakers between 88-94dB I have found, had many of them over the years including the good old Monarchy DIP!

They are a good half way house between so called valve fluidity and solid state brute force at the time they were released.

Had a soft spot for them in fairness.

For me the Krell's were hit and miss but this again depends on room size, partnering speakers and well thought out systems, not always easy to make the sing, but one you did they put a smile on your face.

Personally of that era I preferred Gryphon, think European Krell with a more liquid music approach, these days not so unfortunately imho.

Bigman80
18-09-2018, 14:56
Tony,

I've been listening for a few days to the Krell and the Luxman-Luxkit Avance and picking a winner between the two is incredibly difficult.

I don't get any wayward bass from the Krell, just plenty of low end grunt but the Luxman-Luxkit is probably a little tighter down in the lower registers.

The room isn't big and the speakers aren't difficult but when I got the cables in, the Krell took a step forward and became mesmeric. I was blown away.

I think it's definitely worth trying the Luxman-Luxkit in Class A mode as in A/B it's so close between that and the Krell that I just can't decide which I prefer.

The SM-70 is a class act. I totally agree on its abilities but the massive soundstage of the Krell and the Luxman-Luxkit both usurped it. The Luxman-Luxkit is every bit as fluid as the SM-70 and in terms of resolution, it has the edge in the midrange with the treble being slightly more silky. Ultimately, I decided to keep the Luxman-Luxkit until I've got it in class a and got some of my cables long enough to have it all set up properly. I will change it to class A and see where the Land lies there. To say the Difference between the Lux and the Krell is minor, is an understatement.

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Mr. C
18-09-2018, 15:19
Not problem Oli

I would have gone down the same path if I were at that stage of my audio journey as well.

Bigman80
18-09-2018, 16:17
Not problem Oli

I would have gone down the same path if I were at that stage of my audio journey as well.That's reassuring to know.

It's only due to good fortune that I ended up with these fantastic amplifiers so it's been a lot of fun.

The Krell is back in currently. Sounds very natural.

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Bigman80
19-09-2018, 21:57
Continuation..........

After a week of pure amplifier magic, I just couldn't whittle the last two down to anything other than the enjoyment factor.

The Luxman-Luxkit is a real deal amplifier. It's right up there with the best I've heard. Clarity and focus is superb and yes, it has scale. Not quite as big sounding as the Krell but it's a great performance.

I spent hours listening to this. I wanted to keep it. I really like it's looks. It's a SS amp that doesn't let you know it. Bass is excellent. Deep but taut. Again the Krell gets a bit deeper but let's be honest, it should. It was twice the price!!

What I love about the Luxman-Luxkit is how it's unassuming. Nobody would look at it and expect it to be anywhere near as good as it is. Yet let it warm up, put anything on and blam! It shakes you awake.

Rock, classical, acoustic, anything. It does it all. The only issue I have with it, is the Krell. Today I played a track by Albert King. I can't remember the name at the minute. At the end of the song, there is a part he sings which is very delicate. I heard it through the Krell and it got me, right in the feels. I was stunned. It was a moment of realisation that the Krell was the one. I tried in vain to get the Luxman-Luxkit to replicate it but it didn't. That was that.

I strongly believe that the Lux would benefit from the move into its Class A mode but I'm not sure how much different it would be. It's capable of putting a coat hanger in your grill and making you smile from ear to ear uncontrollably. It's just that organic sound of the Krell which tips the scales for me.

The Krell has taken my heart. I can't deny it. The sound from the big lump of 80's muscle is exactly what I wanted. I'm sad because I know how rare the Luxman-Luxkit is but I can't deny it, I keep putting the Krell back in.

The Krell puts meat on the bone. Makes it a living breathing person on the mic and I've never experienced a more organic performance here. I described the Krells I'd heard as being effortless but the better description is natural. To me, in my house, in my system, the Krell is King.

I've had a rollercoaster of a ride between these two amps. It's nip and tuck but I just knew it was time to accept the Krell as my new amp. The Luxman-Luxkit is already sold and will be off to Ireland very soon.

If you see one, I would snap it up.

Well, this really has been fun but I'm glad it's over. The Krell is far too heavy to keep lumping around [emoji6]





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walpurgis
19-09-2018, 22:10
What might you be using six months down the line though mate? Still with the Krell, or might something from ARC or Levinson arrive? :D

Edward
19-09-2018, 22:16
What might you be using six months down the line though mate? Still with the Krell, or might something from ARC or Levinson arrive? :D

The MF Titan's that are for sale just maybe will compete with the Krells. :eyebrows:

walpurgis
19-09-2018, 22:20
The MF Titan's that are for sale just maybe will compete with the Krells. :eyebrows:

Nice enough, but pricey and do they have the cachet?

Edward
19-09-2018, 22:25
Nice enough, but pricey and do they have the cachet?

All true Geoff. We will have to collectively get our heads together for Oli's next amp. :lol:

walpurgis
19-09-2018, 22:44
All true Geoff. We will have to collectively get our heads together for Oli's next amp. :lol:

Well I'm heading in the opposite direction pricewise. My latest amp from China cost £17 and I'm expecting great things once the requisite power supply arrives. It could of course be total crap, but maybe not :).

Lawrence001
19-09-2018, 22:47
All I know is my £90 Yamaha is good enough for my needs! I love it when something stupidly cheap that you really like comes along :)

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Bigman80
20-09-2018, 08:22
What might you be using six months down the line though mate? Still with the Krell, or might something from ARC or Levinson arrive? :DGeoff, if I still have this in 6 months I will be happy. The landscape at work is changing so trimming down the kit. The Krell is a beast I'd like to spend some time with, hope I get the chance.

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alphaGT
30-09-2018, 07:51
Geoff, if I still have this in 6 months I will be happy. The landscape at work is changing so trimming down the kit. The Krell is a beast I'd like to spend some time with, hope I get the chance.

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I’ve had my Krell for about 2 years now, and I cannot get tired of it. To this day, when I turn it on I am surprised at how good it sounds! Each and every time. I listen to the radio a lot, and with my Magnum Dynalab tuner, it’s good! But, a bit fat in the bass. Then I put on a record, and suddenly everything is right with the world! I want to purchase a new preamp, I know it’ll make a world of difference. But for some reason I’m in no hurry.

Russell

Bigman80
30-09-2018, 08:13
I’ve had my Krell for about 2 years now, and I cannot get tired of it. To this day, when I turn it on I am surprised at how good it sounds! Each and every time. I listen to the radio a lot, and with my Magnum Dynalab tuner, it’s good! But, a bit fat in the bass. Then I put on a record, and suddenly everything is right with the world! I want to purchase a new preamp, I know it’ll make a world of difference. But for some reason I’m in no hurry.

RussellI'm really pleased with it. So much so I can imagine it being here for some time. I can't get over how realistic things sound. Sure, it probably needs a touch of leading edge to match the best amps in ultimate resolution and yes, on certain recordings the bass is a bit fat as you say. A wooden floor with a large cavity beneath isn't helping that at all and it's something I've been aware of for some time. And with multiple amps and speakers.

Speaker stands of sufficient quality will help and that's in my to do list. I also have a method of decoupling I want to look in to which will help further.

I haven't heard any other amp do what the Krell does. That's the truth. Is it ridiculously big? Yes. Is it warm in the room after an hour? Yes. Is it going to be expensive to recap? Yes. Is it the best amplifier I've had? Yes. Do I get goosebumps listening to the system? Yes.

I just love it.





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speedracer
02-10-2018, 13:20
Hi Oliver, I enjoy reading your posts about your amplifier adventures, but can I ask you about something you mentioned when you first got your Krell. You said you thought your turntable was broken at first & changing the valves brought about a big change to the sound, were any of the first valves you tried broken do you know? Just that it seems very reliant on particular valves if not which seems strange to me, surely an amp with that sort of new price tag should be good no matter what valves were used?