View Full Version : Sony TTS-8000 Turntable
Ive had an itch for a while regarding these beautiful turntables and today it was scratched!
My biggest concern was if it was a sideways move from my Pioneer PLC-590,a few questions asked to 'those in the know' confirmed it was a step up so the Calamine lotion was slung in the bin and off i went to ipswich to buy it :eek:
This 1 owner from new, UK model, had been on gumtree for a while and looked very dusty in the sellers photo's which did put me off a little. the seller did confirm it was only dust so after i got back home i set about giving it a good clean.
Its come up a treat!:cool:
The platter is damped as standard,a nice touch.
https://s26.postimg.cc/g6kicq7rd/IMG_2582.jpg
Platter edge and controls shinning like new!
https://s26.postimg.cc/u08v1sfs9/IMG_2584.jpg
Original Sony oil filled matt is in great condition.
https://s26.postimg.cc/j0nnq6x2x/IMG_2585.jpg
The plinth weighs a ton and is in top nick too.
https://s26.postimg.cc/7ob28f3tl/IMG_2587.jpg
A good clean reveals a mint dust cover.
https://s26.postimg.cc/r65pod8h5/IMG_2588.jpg
A PMAT-1010 tonearm will be fitted soon so ive got time to make a panzerholz board for it.
Ali Tait
15-09-2018, 12:32
Drool. :-)
RobbieGong
15-09-2018, 12:49
Nice one Jamie !
Love a man who scratches the itches somehow - life is for living so good to dream big !
Congratulations on the purchase of a lovely high end deck :thumbsup:
It's a good job I can't get up your stairs or I'd have that in my bag and be out the door.
Bigman80
15-09-2018, 13:25
Fair play Jamie, when I looked at it on gumtree, I felt it was too much for the condition. If I'd had half an idea that it would come up like that, I'd have bought it.
Wow, it's stunning. Really looking forward to seeing how much you sell the Pioneer for [emoji6]
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It's all about the appearances isn't it?
In this case though, there's some justification to be proud of it. At the time, I liked the oil filled mat, but audiophiles today don't it seems and it's decades since I 'heard' a deck with one, so maybe a tweak there might do it :)
P.S. 50 years ago, the belt driven TTS-3000 was rated higher than the TD124, 401 and G99 in a test...
i thought for one minute you were going to recommend the space mat again then dave! :lol:
actually in this case its not all about appearances,it doesn't come close to the turntable im currently using,i bought it for its abilities :cool:
How known? Sorry, I'm being awkward again, as decks like this are usually only talked about 'cos very few in the UK have ever heard or even seen one..
yes they are a japan/uk model only i believe.
just checking the tonearm board out,its made of billet aluminium,12mm thick with a sticky layer of sound deadening type material on the bottom.
https://s26.postimg.cc/xmnv5pyah/IMG_2590_1.jpg
Obviously one or two must have been sold in the UK, like the 8750, but I seriously don't think it was many more than that, as it came along just at 'the time' when springy belt drives began to rule. Maybe one or two of the larger Sony centres around then had them on display? Certainly Ipswich where you got it from is NOT latterly a HiFi haven for this type of gear and the Linn/Naim/Rega dealer just down the road from me used to tell me his business was almost all out of county...
Enjoy :D
P.S. Over the decades, I remember that Sony and other larger Jap companies like Panasonic/Technics have had some real shit amongst the prize products like this one. To stock the brand though, you had to commit to a sizeable chunk of it and this was a problem for UK specialist audio dealers, who didn't want the price-conscious stack systems and (often) tat at the bottom of their range. The smaller dealers able to sell the cheap stuff didn't know what to do about the top level products, although one or two customers may have got to hear about these and ordered blind. The Technics SP10 was different I gather, as many pro broadcast organisations like the BBC bought loads in the UK I gather from friends in the broadcast side at this time.
Bigman80
15-09-2018, 16:50
Here you go Dave, from the VIntage Knob
The*TTS-8000*is an*LP*drive sold as such or with several Sony bases.
As for quite a few high-end Sony audio components, however, "sold" is a sizeable overstatement : it was*not*exported, was advertised for*very little*and got relegated to the catalogs' back pages*very quickly.
The only local Sony to have imported the*TTS-8000*was that of the*UK*: a country where Sony never was neither strong sales-wise, nor particularily "respected". I guess several top executives there badly wanted one.
Even more surprising is the fact the*Sony SDL*did*not*import any, despite the fact that Germany always was Sony's strongest european market where oodles of*TTS-3000, TTS-2500 and*TTS-4000*were sold. Obviously the work of one german marketing genius who thought he knew better - and missed many easy sales.
The*TTS-8000*was quite obviously somewhat overshadowed by the*PS-X9*masterpiece but despite appearances managed to sell rather well even if only in Japan.
One can wonder why Sony picked a consumer tag (PS-X) for its professional deck and a professional tag for this last "audiophile & consumer" deck (TTS) - typical Sony ;-)
The Drive
Technically,*TTS-8000*was partly derived from the*PS-8750*but as it uses a different motor/rotor and a more streamlined electronic design, all that came strictly untouched from the*PS-8750*is... the platter !
The overall engineering theory and*X'Tal Locksystem are the same, though :*barium-ferritemagnetic strip on the platter, two*8-pole*reading heads,*brush-less & slot-less*DC*Servo*motor with multiple dividing circuits and phase comparators.
The important*neon stroboscope*is commanded by the 3.932.160Hz*X'Tal oscillator through a divider and its own rectified and regulated power supply straight off the transformer.
The Platter
The platter is damped with a yellow-ish compound on its underside (like that of the*PS-X9) which can be found elsewhere in the multi-ribbed and round*SBMC*chassis.
The big transformer is suspended on 3 springs with fairly elastic rubbery surrounds and the bottom cover is damped with something that looks like bitumen - needless to say, none of this rings or resonates.
As in all 1974-1982 Sony turntables, the magnetic imprint on the outside rim of the platter must remained intact : the X-Tal lock system will otherwise not function anymore and speed locking will become erratic. And unrepairable.
The first production batches, up to about s/n #201400, sported either*clear strobe dots*on a painted black background or the opposite scheme (black dots on a clear/natural aluminium background) with a predominance of the former. All later ones were delivered with the latter version, which was a way back to the PS-8750's original design.
The Functions
The controls under the flap are*pitch controls*for each speed, the speed selector and the*X-Talswitch which disables the former.
The stroboscope, feather-touch start/stop and power-on button are on top ; in between are three red*LEDs which indicate which speed is selected and if the X-Tal lock is active.
Two primary speed adjustment pots are located under the drive and they must be set with the X-Tal lock turned*off.
The Mat
The*OL-2K*mat was very special and*quiteeffective : it contains a micron-thick plastic "skin" itself containing a very thick*oil.
The problem that may arise with prolonged use is that the oil ends up concentrated at the periphery of the plastic skin, thus making the mat not flat.
Due to this, many*OL-2K*mats have had their exterior plastic holder disformed by that prolonged concentration... Maybe some heat treatment can return them to flat status ?
But without that, this*OL-2K*is the best and most neutral mat made, short of the AT600 Audio Technic ceramic powder 600g. mat/slab.
The drive itself can however handle heavy platter mats like Micro CU-180 or SAECs, plus a heavy record clamp : the*TTS-8000*is a driving*drive.
The Base(s)
Besides marketing, this is where Sony was, as ever, Sony : there were*seven*different bases made for the*TTS-8000*!
Two were the official ones, three were pre-production samples and two were sold but never shown or advertised. And, whatever the base, in chaotic Sony tradition, a TTS-8000 in TB-2000 or TB-1000 base was*not*named*PSE-8000 : it remained a*TTS.
Official
TB-1000*and*TB-2000, the official ones, are based on that of the*PS-6750*: a massive*SBMCpiece (Sony*Bulk*Mold*Compound) is placed on a supplementary slab of compressed wood particles, the interface between the two being four enormous rubbery cushions with a guide so as to keep the two pieces perfectly aligned.
The maximum effective length of any tonearm on the*TB-2000*is however set at*27,3cm*- an SME3012 will not fit.
These official bases did have tiny stickers with serial numbers but the latter often were lost (my own has #140) and a TTS-8000 in its TB-2000 base makes for a hefty*40kg*! The TB-2000 is a*very*rare item as only about 150 were made.
Dustcovers for it are of the unhinged type, obviously hand-made & hand-glued, and have to be removed*entirely*to play a record. When on, they rest on four rubbery dots set in the base itself.
UNofficial
The three "unofficial" ones all had a (beautiful) "TTS-8000 cabinet SAMPLE" orange front sticker and kept the dual-base system... with a twist : there is no SBMC but only*wood, matte for the bottom part and shiny for the top ! Beautiful cradle-like shape but the big "I am a pro" handles weren't really worthwhile a visual addition.
Variations between the three versions are of size and single- or dual-tonearm but none have a dustcover (hinged or not) ; all were in fact pre-production items before the TB-1000/2000 design was chosen... and the SBMC molds ready.
Small
The remaining two are the smallest bases at 12 kg : SBMC only, no wood sub-base, single-tonearm only, hinged dustcover, "Resinamic Sound" back badge, and available in shiny black or dark matte grey (JP) and lighter matter grey (UK). At least one was also in made in matte black (JP).
The Armbases
Apparently not available separately from any of the bases, they are made of SBMC with an aluminium top and are fastened with three (too) basic screws ; they generally weigh 1,5kg*each and are generally 1,2cm*thick.
They sometimes have a silkscreened centimeter graduation (or not) and were sometimes pre-drilled for SMEs (or not) or with a wide oval/rectangular hole of varying size (or not).
As a recent experience proved, they are not necessarily interchangeable : some have straight edges (fittng*some*of the bases), some have evased edges (fitting the*other*bases) and overall height isn't always consistent...
None of this is documented anywhere and this tends to prove the off-center manufacturing of the bases, ie.: not at Sony but by a (small) sub-contractor. And with a clearly wandering product planning !
Sound-wise the*TTS-8000*is rock solid and very clean from top to bottom : where the*PS-X9*is a tank à la EMT, the*8000*is more subtle and "musical", fluid, laid-back while still clearly being a direct-drive.
As silly as this may sound, the*8000*is like the best of both belt-drive and direct-drive slants.
I believe the total production run to have been of*3000*units so they are not rare... but they are.
As new evidence suggests, about sixty were imported in the*UK, some of which*may*have found their way to the*BBC*broadcasting studios.
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AJSki2fly
15-09-2018, 16:51
That looks like a rather nice TT, sounds like a good buy.
Beobloke
15-09-2018, 17:28
Glad you went for it - nice one Jamie! :D
In addition, just a small point with regard to the text on the Vintage Knob - Axel is a little off here:
The*TTS-8000*was quite obviously somewhat overshadowed by the*PS-X9*masterpiece but despite appearances managed to sell rather well even if only in Japan.
One can wonder why Sony picked a consumer tag (PS-X) for its professional deck and a professional tag for this last "audiophile & consumer" deck (TTS) - typical Sony ;-)
The actual difference between the two model nomenclatures is the Sony used 'TTS' to denote a turntable unit that required mounting into a base - it has nothing to do with consumer versus professional, or indeed cost. Some of the most basic Sony-made decks that they used in their music centres have 'TTS' model numbers.
'PS-X', in contrast, denoted a complete turntable system of motor unit, plinth and arm.
As Dave says, it is strange that the UK was a defined market for the TTS-8000 given the prevailing preferences of the time for bouncy wooden boxes with rubber bands. Quite a few found their way over here, though - the one I used to own was a 240V model, as is the one David Price has.
cheers adam,im glad i went for it,so thats 3 that we know of then :)
do you know a source for the user manual? the service manual is everywhere but not the former.
also what bearing is used? is it oil-lite type or does it need oiling ?
thanks.
Beobloke
15-09-2018, 18:04
No, sadly, I never found a user manual either.
Bearing shouldn't need oiling. If it's spinning sweetly, you can leave it alone.
Mikeandvan
15-09-2018, 19:44
Looks great, such amazing thought gone into the design. Be interesting to hear your opinion on how it sounds.
so thats 3 that we know of then :)
Nice example Jamie. I'm sure you'll be pleased with it. I presume the 3 you know of are Geoff's, Adam's and yours. Make it 4. I've got one too :)
RobbieGong
15-09-2018, 21:25
Nice example Jamie. I'm sure you'll be pleased with it. I presume the 3 you know of are Geoff's, Adam's and yours. Make it 4. I've got one too :)
Come on then Paul, tell us about it.... :)
Come on then Paul, tell us about it.... :)
Mine is also a UK 240v model. Actually, I've nearly finished a project with the deck. When it's done I will pop some pics in my Gallery thread. Hoping that will be tomorrow! I've been using it up until now with an SME 310 and a Kiseki Purpleheart NOS.
https://i.imgur.com/myCY52k.jpg
A thing of beauty! Form follows function.
Russell
I have never considered buying another to replace mine. It is a flawlessly engineered device that would cost many thousands if made today.
In answer to an earlier question, it is a 'lubed for life' bearing.
Similarly, mine was covered in nicotine stains when I got it. It had been stored for a long time since the untimely demise of its previous owner. I am so pleased I purchased it and then invested the time to clean and restore.
Try as I might, the oil rilled mat has remained a conundrum and is a rare thing. The decades of centrifugalism have shifted the oil to the perimeter of the mat. No amount of gentle rolling, pressing or warm baths will shift it.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/848/42978530825_1b06576e6c_z.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4641/38358337355_8e6bb11936_z.jpg
Nice example Jamie. I'm sure you'll be pleased with it. I presume the 3 you know of are Geoff's, Adam's and yours. Make it 4. I've got one too :)
cheers mate and thanks for the link :cool:
ive just noticed on mine the 33rpm speed indicator bulb has blown,so i'll have to have a look inside,im guessing its a grain of sand/wheat type bulb but if its too much grief getting to it i'll leave 'as is'
thanks for all the kind comments chaps,i cant wait to get an arm on it!
nicely made table. don't get much better, if at all. :)
well ive opened her up :eek:
traced the 2 wires to the bulb back to a push on block connector,ive disconnected it and tested continuity to the working one which is fine and to the non working 33rpm bulb,i dont get continuity here so everything points to a blown bulb,phew!
according to the diagram its a 6v 35ma bulb,it measures 12mm x4mm is that commonly known as a grain of wheat bulb?
https://s26.postimg.cc/ufkle5vi1/IMG_2592.jpg
https://s26.postimg.cc/7e407xb4p/IMG_2591.jpg
Nice example Jamie. I'm sure you'll be pleased with it. I presume the 3 you know of are Geoff's, Adam's and yours. Make it 4. I've got one too :)
Make that 5.
I have one with the PUA 9 arm.
nice arm,do you have any photos?
Bigman80
16-09-2018, 18:33
Few more coming out the woodwork!!
When are you lot selling??
[emoji6]
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Done...can't figure out how to post full size photos.
Some photos here:
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?54174-Technics-SP10-MK2-nearly-ready!!!!/page10&highlight=Technics+SP10
Mine is also a UK 240v model. Actually, I've nearly finished a project with the deck. When it's done I will pop some pics in my Gallery thread. Hoping that will be tomorrow! I've been using it up until now with an SME 310 and a Kiseki Purpleheart NOS.
With a lot of help from Charlie, I managed to get the deck set up today. More pics and info in my gallery thread.
https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/0/9/09b64a8231c10ceba8129d844f3ddc0023151a66_1_690x388 .jpeg
Beobloke
16-09-2018, 20:45
Make that 5.
I have one with the PUA 9 arm.
That is very pretty!
Beobloke
16-09-2018, 20:46
Few more coming out the woodwork!!
When are you lot selling??
[emoji6]
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Sold mine last year - sorry!
Bigman80
16-09-2018, 20:46
Sold mine last year - sorry!Only a year late then lol.
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Idlewithnodrive
16-09-2018, 22:39
In my experience, the Sony oil filled mat is always the best for the application.
I tried a dozen or so different mats and nothing was as good as the original oil filled.
Sadly my oil filled mat introduces a slight warp into every record but it is quite playable. For the last few years I've been using an SDS mat with the Origin Live mat as a cover. Similar total thickness to the Sony mat, approx 3mm.
I compared them again today and I still find the SDS/OL combo loses nothing to the Sony mat and betters it by offering a more open, airier presentation. YMMV.
Sadly my oil filled mat introduces a slight warp into every record but it is quite playable. For the last few years I've been using an SDS mat with the Origin Live mat as a cover. Similar total thickness to the Sony mat, approx 3mm.
I compared them again today and I still find the SDS/OL combo loses nothing to the Sony mat and betters it by offering a more open, airier presentation. YMMV.
Interesting. I use the SDS with the neoprene cover though I would like to use the original if it wasn't 'rim heavy'.
I tried the SDS with the neoprene cover back when I had a PS-6750. I had slight static problems in that room and the neoprene mat kept lifting with the record. The OL mat put a stop to that. It's as thin as the neoprene at 1mm.
I tried the SDS with the neoprene cover back when I had a PS-6750. I had slight static problems in that room and the neoprene mat kept lifting with the record. The OL mat put a stop to that. It's as thin as the neoprene at 1mm.
I think that is a common fault with the neoprene. I have also tried the SDS with a Ringmat anniversary but I am buggered if I tell a difference.
I don't remember the OL mat being a particular sonic upgrade over the neoprene at the time but my system was more basic. It was all about the static.
I'm going to be selling my original Sony plinth on ebay at some point. I also have the spirit level and concentric 45 adapter that fit in the plinth recess. I was thinking of selling them separately as they're really very rare. I'd be grateful for any advice on what they might be worth? Or am I committing a crime against hi-fi by separating them from the plinth? :eyebrows:
https://i.imgur.com/IrtpZs1.jpg
did you colour the level black? mines clear
It's actually a light grey tint through all the plastic parts, top and base. It looks darker against the table top. It's an original finish.
wumpling
18-09-2018, 17:35
Hi all, Jamie in particular.
Glad to know you got the Sony home in one piece. Sincerest apologies about the indicator lamp, if I had been aware of it I would have brought it to your attention. Had a quick google for possible replacements
'grain of rice indicator bulbs 6V' and 'miniature indicator bulbs' as google searches produced some likely hits. Difficult to judge the scale in the pic. Some of the 6v bulbs may need a series resistor though. Maybe try running a 12v bulb undervoltage? Probably stating the 'very' obvious but just trying to make a positive suggestion.
For anyone who may be interested the Sony in question came from a long defunct(30+ years gone) hifi dealer in North Station Road in Colchester that traded as D. T. Wicks. They obviously had more than one in stock as I had to go back to swap the spirit level as the bubble was missing from the original.
Looking forward to knowing how it all turns out.
PS. sorry I spelt your name wrong in the header and it cleaned up alright, did it not?
Hi paul,nice to hear from you,i think it must have blown in the journey home in the car,anyway these things happen so no worries.
i found a suitable bulb (i think) similar size from cricklewood electronics, 6v 40ma,the original one is 6v 35ma so close enough.
Dave would probably know the dealer.
As ive said previously its cleaned up a treat and really is in great condition,you've looked after it well.
I'am looking forward to get it up and running with the PMAT tonearm mid october so i will keep you informed. :cool:
wumpling
18-09-2018, 17:57
Probably worth changing both bulbs so the brightness matches.
Cricklewood electronics is a blast from the past. I remember the name from when I used to build projects from Practical Electronics and Wireless World, too long ago to contemplate.
yes i figured that was best too,the original measures 4mm o/d by 12mm,it looks huge in the photo :)
Some HI MACS material arrived today,courtesy of Mark YNWaN (thanks),already cut to size and shape.
i drilled the 3 mounting holes and gave it a good sanding using progressively finer wet and dry and then good old t-cut.
Its lovely stuff to work with and sands very easily.All thats left is to drill the mounting hole for the tonearm when it arrives.
https://i.postimg.cc/bwpwTx1X/IMG_2601.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/PrdgV2VM/IMG_2602.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/76ysGZpN/IMG_2603.jpg
Despite having a stinking cold im sitting here very happy with the results ;)
Im now thinking what a plinth would look like using it too!
Lovely job there Sir James, really looks the part and suits the deck completely.
well my bulbs arrived in the week so today i soldered in a replacement,i now have 33rpm illuminated again,phew! whilst i was in there i cleaned and lubricated all the speed potentiometers.
https://i.postimg.cc/W1YQwV4D/IMG_2614.jpg
Bigman80
29-09-2018, 14:08
That looks nice mate.
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Mikeandvan
29-09-2018, 14:15
What's the going price for one of these? TT and plinth.
id say £700+ probably more for a genuine uk model as there seems to be under 100 models only imported.
Hi all, Jamie in particular.
Glad to know you got the Sony home in one piece. Sincerest apologies about the indicator lamp, if I had been aware of it I would have brought it to your attention. Had a quick google for possible replacements
'grain of rice indicator bulbs 6V' and 'miniature indicator bulbs' as google searches produced some likely hits. Difficult to judge the scale in the pic. Some of the 6v bulbs may need a series resistor though. Maybe try running a 12v bulb undervoltage? Probably stating the 'very' obvious but just trying to make a positive suggestion.
For anyone who may be interested the Sony in question came from a long defunct(30+ years gone) hifi dealer in North Station Road in Colchester that traded as D. T. Wicks. They obviously had more than one in stock as I had to go back to swap the spirit level as the bubble was missing from the original.
Looking forward to knowing how it all turns out.
PS. sorry I spelt your name wrong in the header and it cleaned up alright, did it not?
I’m glad you’ve got your miniature lamp taken care of, but it’s not what they call a grain of wheat bulb. I’ve got a bundle of them stashed away here somewhere, I used to use for Model railroading, lighting up tiny street lamps and the like. A real Grain of Wheat bulb is only about 3mm in either direction, some can be even smaller. And grain of rice bulbs are longer, but probably 5mm by 2.5mm. The bulb you’ve got might be called a mini or just an indicator lamp. But it’s all just semantics, and the ‘table looks awesome! I’d say £700 would be a bargain! The oil filled mat is a new one on me, what if you took a rolling pin to it?
Russell
cheers russell,
my mat seems to be fine,in the end i sourced some bulbs from lee's electronics,they matched the original bulbs specs.when i put one in it was dimmer than the 45rm light so i swapped out the 35ma for a 40ma and it matched the original ones brightness. go figure??
the new bulb was smaller in diameter to the original so i made up the thickness with heat shrink.
cheers russell,
my mat seems to be fine,in the end i sourced some bulbs from lee's electronics,they matched the original bulbs specs.when i put one in it was dimmer than the 45rm light so i swapped out the 35ma for a 40ma and it matched the original ones brightness. go figure??
the new bulb was smaller in diameter to the original so i made up the thickness with heat shrink.
Good thinking, the heat shrink should work well, is there no end to it’s usefulness?
Russell
So yesterday i spent an enjoyable day at Angus's house,Oliver and i were there to hear the latest upgraded AT-1010 tonearm,the MK6.
Before hearing it we were shown the upgraded part,the bearing carrier has been remade using a high performance polymer,Angus has expertly machined this and it looked very impressive! we were also shown the original part and subsequent other ones,Angus explained the differences and how the MK6 carrier had evolved. Detail and finish on the MK6 also struck me as excellent.
Next came the listening tests,first we heard a MK5 tonearm,id never heard any version of Audio Technica's top arm so i was somewhat in the dark as to how they sound.
Very nice is the answer,id say in the same league as my recently sold Zeta and current arm,the PA-500 (also rebuilt by Angus). The tracks we listen to were tunnel of love by Dire straits and wish you were here by Pink Floyd.
The arms were swapped over and the same tracks were played again,the difference was not subtle,tunnel of love had more pace,more energy right from the off but the thing that i noticed the most was the acoustic guitar at the beginning of wish you were here,the decay after the note/chord struck was very evident,something both Oliver and myself agreed,there is an obvious step up in arm performance with this bearing carrier upgrade, a veil had been lifted.
I could go on about how good this arm is,if you have a mk5 then you already know the family sound,this latest version made such an impression i bought it,its now sitting very happily on my Sony :D which by the way is the best turntable ive owned to date,i heard it at Angus's for the first time yesterday,through my system its clearly a step up from my pioneer plc-590,it looses out a touch on looks but makes up for it when the needle goes down.:cool:
https://i.postimg.cc/4dshwwZk/IMG-2750.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gkQX1GdK/IMG-2744.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/LsTs4Sdw/IMG-2752.jpg
paulf-2007
28-10-2018, 16:23
It looks gorgeous with the Tenuto mat, so when you are listening to music it sounds gorgeous and when you're not it looks gorgeous, really, what more could you ask for.
I have to agree 100 percent with Paul. I decided you are not allowed here any more because my stuff will sound like some old Bush shite and look like a dog's dinner by comparison :D
Good looking arm. Suits the deck well. Glad your pleased with it :)
Bigman80
28-10-2018, 19:01
What a privilege it was to be in attendance yesterday!!
The morning started off with a really thorough explanation and demonstration of how each version of the PMAT-1010 had progressed through each advancement. It was great to get this from Angus. What is blatantly apparent is just how passionate he is about details. How thorough his approach has been and the level of financial input he has put into developing these improvements to the standard arm.
Firstly, we got our ears dialed into Angus's system. As usual, we have used the same few tracks to get a feel for the system. The mark V PMAT-1010 was in and sounded very impressive in Angus's ruthlessly revealing system.
The Mark VI was installed and the energy in the performance blew me away. There was more resolution too. The high hat being played was easily identified as being played with the foot pedal rather than striking it. Not always easy to distinguish but the MKVI made it clear and obvious. On we went to "wish you were here" Later in the song, there is an accidental strike of guitar string. This causes a harmonic effect which is in the wrong key. Again, not always clear but with the MKVI it was clear to hear. There were other differences too, attack and decay were improved. The track "Best days of our lives" was instant, the bass guitar and cymbal strike slammed then stopped instantaneously on the opening bars. No smudge or smear. Digital levels of speed. Impressive.
As we listened, i loved the MKVI more and more. It was excellent but as always, i need mine to arrive so i can dissect it here in my system. I'll update the Phonomac thread when i have done this.
Then we put the Bigbottle phonostage in. We did some listening and as usual, there were differences in the performance. From a personal perspective, The addition of the phonostage made the sound more appealing to my ears but Jamie felt there was a bit of loss in the resolution. I didn't agree but i wouldn't :D I felt the presentation was different. Everything was still available and audible but had a bit of a slower delivery. I also felt there was a bit more sounstage depth but Angus disagreed. Like i say, these things are largely subjective and regardless of evey ones personal opinion, i would rather have had the Bigbottle in, than out.
What it did highlight was how good the Sansui's built in phonostage and Angus's Ortofon SUT performance is. It really is very revealing but in my view, it doesn't sound as natural from a tone perspective. We did generally all agree on the tone being more natural on the Bigbottle which was pleasing. It also excites me greatly that there may be a future project with Angus to replicate the Sansui phonostage from the Sansui-X1 amplifier. This is a phonostage that has been highlighted as potentially an end game unit, so fingers crossed we can get the ball rolling soon!
Next up, the bit i was looking forward to the most......the Sony TTS-8000
Angus fitted Jamies new MKVI tonearm along with Angus's Ortofon Vienna.
Down went the needle and..................................HMMMM?!
I was a little bit surprised. The sound was a bit thick, muddy almost. Angus suggested we put the Tenuto Platter mat on and we tried again.
FAR FAR better. The Sony is absolutely beautiful to look at. Visually, it floats my boat and was my all time favourite turntable. I wanted one before i bought the SP10 MK2 and had i got one i would have been a happy bunny. So how did the Sony sound?
Best way to describe it was by talking about everything else. The system Angus has built is very revealing and carries no prisoners. The detail retrieval is such that its blatant and smacks you in the face for your attention. What happened for me when the Bigbottle went in was the addition of organism filled-real life sound. However, the Sansui was in and here's the odd part. The Sony added the same kind Organism filled, life like quality to the sound.
The Sony wasn't as immediate or incisive sounding as the SP10, instead it was fluidity and liquidity personified. The sound poured out of the speakers in a similar way it does when you have good valve amps in the signal path. For me, the Sony was a beautiful Turntable which made me really enjoy the sound. The Sony couldn't match the SP10's drive of metronome like rhythmic drive but i don't think its supposed to. It does something else entirely. I read that it combines the best of belt drive and DD turntables and i think i agree. Whether thats something you want, well, thats up to you.
For me, I'll happily keep the SP10 as i've built my sound around it but believe me, if a Sony TTS-8000 comes up, i will add it to the ranks. It captured my heart with it's looks AND its performance.
Thanks to Angus for his hospitality and all of his hard work in developing the Tonearm. It's time the PMAT-1010 goes up against the SME V. If anyone fancies a bakeoff, let me know. We can set up two SP10's and go toe to toe.
Thanks to Jamie for attending and bringing this wonderful TT with him. It was one on my 'to hear' list. I am well impressed with it.
brilliant,much better account than i could write. :cool:
cheers oli.
Bigman80
28-10-2018, 19:11
brilliant,much better account than i could write. :cool:
cheers oli.No worries mate. Agree with the write up? Anything I've missed?
you've got it spot on mate,as i said to you privately im going to try to do more meets in future as i really enjoyed it.:cool:
Bigman80
29-10-2018, 07:48
you've got it spot on mate,as i said to you privately im going to try to do more meets in future as i really enjoyed it.:cool:[emoji3]
Properly mounted today using the more coupled arm mount,the counterweights on the right way too now :D.
The arm is mounted at 225mm,any adjustment is done by moving the headshell forward or backward,thankfully i was spot on so no adjustment required.
I will give this armboard a try before making the final panzerholz one.
https://i.postimg.cc/wTmHNCMb/IMG-2753.jpg
Bigman80
29-10-2018, 11:44
Properly mounted today using the more coupled arm mount,the counterweights on the right way too now :D.
The arm is mounted at 225mm,any adjustment is done by moving the headshell forward or backward,thankfully i was spot on so no adjustment required.
I will give this armboard a try before making the final panzerholz one.
https://i.postimg.cc/wTmHNCMb/IMG-2753.jpgI like the circle in a circle look. Looks much better to be.
Panzerholtz armboard will be the icing on the cake. How do you plan to finish it mate? Lots of sanding?
yep,down to 320 grit then a couple of coats of satin black paint :cool:
I wouldn’t assume the Panzeholz will be any better Jamie. In fact, given that both materials contain a significant resin content, they may well sound very similar.
RobbieGong
29-10-2018, 13:03
Panzerholt and other woods are regarded as very good / natural in hifi-application.
The ebony armboard for instance and in my experience is excellent.
I'd defo follow through on your plans for an armboard of Panzerholt :thumbsup:
Both the Hi-Macs and the Panzerholz are very stiff and well damped with similar densities. The Ebony is also very stiff and dense, but slightly less well damped. All three materials share very similar properties. It’s not a very large or complex piece to make though so easy enough to experiment. If Jamie makes it the same thickness (12mm) he can just swop the arm over without having to make any setup changes :).
I’m just in the process of making up a new armboard myself, though it doesn’t use Panzerholz, ebony or Hi-Macs.
RobbieGong
29-10-2018, 13:55
Both the Hi-Macs and the Panzerholz are very stiff and well damped with similar densities. The Ebony is also very stiff and dense, but slightly less well damped. All three materials share very similar properties. It’s not a very large or complex piece to make though so easy enough to experiment. If Jamie makes it the same thickness (12mm) he can just swop the arm over without having to make any setup changes :).
I’m just in the process of making up a new armboard myself, though it doesn’t use Panzerholz, ebony or Hi-Macs.
Intriguing ... :)
I wouldn’t assume the Panzeholz will be any better Jamie. In fact, given that both materials contain a significant resin content, they may well sound very similar.
you may be well right there mark,the hi-macs board sounds very nice at the moment.:cool:
The listener experience of the TTS8000 matches my own and, interestingly, the findings of The Vintage Knob, who suggest that its outright sound quality may well be preferable to the PS-X9. It does seem to marry the metronomic qualities of the best direct drives with the fluidity and lightness of the best belt drive decks. I have owned a lot of turntables, many at the same time, but this was the one deck I chose to keep.
a few more tweaks tonight with tracking weight and jesus christ this arm is bloody good! listening to 'the wall' album and im hearing such clarity that ive never heard before from this album,things like the bird warble on the beginning of side 2 'goodbye blue sky' is so life like now,the decay in the guitar with delay effect on 'another brick in the wall parts 1 and 2 is astounding! ive never heard it like this before,ive owned zeta's,mission 774's,alphason hr100's,ittoks etc which are all top arms but none have got close to this AT-1010!
oliver has been shouting how good this arm is from the roof tops,im now up there with him!
Bigman80
31-10-2018, 18:44
a few more tweaks tonight with tracking weight and jesus christ this arm is bloody good! listening to 'the wall' album and im hearing such clarity that ive never heard before from this album,things like the bird warble on the beginning of side 2 'goodbye blue sky' is so life like now,the decay in the guitar with delay effect on 'another brick in the wall parts 1 and 2 is astounding! ive never heard it like this before,ive owned zeta's,mission 774's,alphason hr100's,ittoks etc which are all top arms but none have got close to this AT-1010!
oliver has been shouting how good this arm is from the roof tops,im now up there with him!
The Arm itself is a great starting point for Angus to work from according to the man himself but the difference between the standard AT-1010 and the PMAT-1010 is substantial. I've heard both.
Yes i have been banging on about this arm and as usual attracted some criticism from some areas of forum land but i couldn't give a Sh@t. This arm is absolutely top class and deserves to be spoken about in the highest of praise.
RobbieGong
31-10-2018, 21:43
The Arm itself is a great starting point for Angus to work from according to the man himself but the difference between the standard AT-1010 and the PMAT-1010 is substantial. I've heard both.
Yes i have been banging on about this arm and as usual attracted some criticism from some areas of forum land but i couldn't give a Sh@t. This arm is absolutely top class and deserves to be spoken about in the highest of praise.
Criticsm ?? Why ? Because you've been going on about something that is top class in your experience ? :scratch:
Well that's me done for then - Been banging on about the 2M Black and other Ortofon cartridges non stop for years :eek:
Bigman80
31-10-2018, 21:48
Criticsm ?? Why ? Because you've been going on about something that is top class in your experience ? :scratch:
Well that's me done for then - Been banging on about the 2M Black and other Ortofon cartridges non stop for years :eek:Yes mate, that's exactly why.
RobbieGong
31-10-2018, 22:17
Yes mate, that's exactly why.
Dont worry about it, whatever it is.
You're 'real', passionate and one of the most straight up genuine people I've had the good fortune and pleasure of dealing with, and that's straight up ! - dont change from being the asset you are !
Places like this NEED people like you ;)
There's a lot of love in the house tonight!
RobbieGong
31-10-2018, 22:33
There's a lot of love in the house tonight!
:kiss: :D
Beobloke
31-10-2018, 22:33
The listener experience of the TTS8000 matches my own and, interestingly, the findings of The Vintage Knob, who suggest that its outright sound quality may well be preferable to the PS-X9. .
I’m afraid it isn’t quite! The TTS-8000 is a stunner and a truly superb deck. However the PS-X9 is nothing short of spellbinding and, from a personal point of view, is one of the two candidates I would offer up as THE best turntable I have ever heard.
Jamie’s TTS-8000 is looking fab, though, although please tell me you’ve now straightened up the new arm. The distance between headshell and platter when the arm is in its rest in your pictures is setting my CDO off! ;)
martian sunrise
31-10-2018, 22:35
I’ve got Stevie Wonder on too!
RobbieGong
31-10-2018, 22:41
I’m afraid it isn’t quite! The TTS-8000 is a stunner and a truly superb deck. However the PS-X9 is nothing short of spellbinding and, from a personal point of view, is one of the two candidates I would offer up as THE best turntable I have ever heard.
Jamie’s TTS-8000 is looking fab, though, although please tell me you’ve now straightened up the new arm. The distance between headshell and platter when the arm is in its rest in your pictures is setting my CDO off! ;)
Only heard the same Adam and along with the Technics SP10 MK3 or new new SL-1000R, I'd have one.
They go for big bucks when they show though, pretty much like most 'ulitmate' pieces in this game, new or old so I'll dream on.
Bigman80
31-10-2018, 22:53
Dont worry about it, whatever it is.
You're 'real', passionate and one of the most straight up genuine people I've had the good fortune and pleasure of dealing with, and that's straight up ! - dont change from being the asset you are !
Places like this NEED people like you ;)Cheers Robbie, that's good of you to say. and don't worry, i take no notice of the negativity. Life is too short to worry.
RobbieGong
31-10-2018, 22:54
Cheers Robbie, that's good of you to say. and don't worry, i take no notice of the negativity. Life is too short to worry.
Too right :thumbsup:
Yes i have been banging on about this arm and as usual attracted some criticism from some areas of forum land but i couldn't give a Sh@t. This arm is absolutely top class and deserves to be spoken about in the highest of praise.
Fuk em . Your recommendations have led me me to get 2 great pieces of kit which have made a really positive difference to my listening pleasure:). There might have been a 3rd if the geometry had been right so I'd advise anyone to trust your opinion, which is honest. You also also give back to this community in other ways -spotfires and new Bigbottle to be. So thanks from me. Cheers Andy
Bigman80
31-10-2018, 23:02
Fuk em . Your recommendations have led me me to get 2 great pieces of kit which have made a really positive difference to my listening pleasure:). There might have been a 3rd if the geometry had been right so I'd advise anyone to trust your opinion, which is honest. You also also give back to this community in other ways -spotfires and new Bigbottle to be. So thanks from me. Cheers AndyThanks Andy,. I'm glad to have helped!
RobbieGong
31-10-2018, 23:07
Fuk em . Your recommendations have led me me to get 2 great pieces of kit which have made a really positive difference to my listening pleasure:). There might have been a 3rd if the geometry had been right so I'd advise anyone to trust your opinion, which is honest. You also also give back to this community in other ways -spotfires and new Bigbottle to be. So thanks from me. Cheers Andy
Exactly and thats the stuf some dont know or see. Offered up his time and effort a while back, without prompting to sort out my very nice Yannis phono interconnect for me.
Tested the thing, fed back to me in order that I could eliminate if it was faulty or not.
Soldered new plugs etc etc, no charge, no issues - just excellent giving and community spirit
Bigman80
31-10-2018, 23:13
Exactly and thats the stuf some dont know or see. Offered up his time and effort a while back, without prompting to sort out my very nice Yannis phono interconnect for me.
Tested the thing, fed back to me in order that I could eliminate if it was faulty or not.
Soldered new plugs etc etc, no charge, no issues - just excellent giving and community spiritOk, stop it now, I'm blushing! [emoji38]
Happy to help mate. As always!
Anyway, we're hijacking Jamie's thread of his very lovely TTS-8000 and equally as important, the wonderful arm he has now put in it.
I'm awaiting mine btw. In no rush but after hearing Jamie's, I am very excited to get the MK6 here asap!
RobbieGong
31-10-2018, 23:19
Ok, stop it now, I'm blushing! [emoji38]
Happy to help mate. As always!
Anyway, we're hijacking Jamie's thread of his very lovely TTS-8000 and equally as important, the wonderful arm he has now put in it.
I'm awaiting mine btw. In no rush but after hearing Jamie's, I am very excited to get the MK6 here asap!
I'll be very tempted if Angus does engineer an on the fly system for it, very very tempted - even if it meant shoe-horning it onto my Techie somehow :)
paulf-2007
01-11-2018, 18:06
You two should get a room :)
I'll be very tempted if Angus does engineer an on the fly system for it, very very tempted - even if it meant shoe-horning it onto my Techie somehow :)
how about a block of acrylic or similar material machined up to bolt to the cartridge holes?
you can then drop the tonearm down on the record and bingo instant azimuth adjustment thats spot on.
Bigman80
01-11-2018, 18:36
You two should get a room :)[emoji6][emoji8][emoji8]
Brownlow
18-11-2018, 20:53
I've got to say, this is the best Sony TT I've had and I consider myself to be fortunate to own one like a few members have mentioned so far.
Unfortunately, my lid is not attached to the plinth as it does not have the hinges. Does anyone know if there is an alternative (hinge)? I have the Resinamic Plinth and the tinted lid.
Cheers
Hi Jamie, & co,
Sadly I rarely get to check in here so haven't seen this thread but it's great to see some other TTS 8000's in such well cared for condition. I use a TTS, pics below:
Tonearm is a SAEC WE506/30. Cart's are MY Sonic Lab Eminent BE, and Aidas PanzerHolz Diamond (pictured). Platter mat is 7mm PTFE, with a bronze stabiliser ring clamp. I built the plinth and arm base, and use the Nasotec headshell. Sound is fantastic..
https://zaxisaudio.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/tts-aidas-nasotec-2.jpg
https://zaxisaudio.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tts-aidas-nasotec-4.jpg
Wow! Stunning mate, where abouts in Sussex are you?
RobbieGong
23-11-2018, 10:15
Hi Jamie, & co,
Sadly I rarely get to check in here so haven't seen this thread but it's great to see some other TTS 8000's in such well cared for condition. I use a TTS, pics below:
Tonearm is a SAEC WE506/30. Cart's are MY Sonic Lab Eminent BE, and Aidas PanzerHolz Diamond (pictured). Platter mat is 7mm PTFE, with a bronze stabiliser ring clamp. I built the plinth and arm base, and use the Nasotec headshell. Sound is fantastic..
https://zaxisaudio.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/tts-aidas-nasotec-2.jpg
https://zaxisaudio.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tts-aidas-nasotec-4.jpg
I'm a wood freak myself but can only appreciate your individual approach here, looks very nicely done :thumbsup:
martian sunrise
23-11-2018, 10:30
awesome.
Fantastic looking tt, I really like the acrylic plinth.
Beobloke
23-11-2018, 13:13
Love the SAEC arm.
Bigman80
23-11-2018, 13:15
Love the SAEC arm.+1
Wow! Stunning mate, where abouts in Sussex are you?
Jamie,
Mid Sussex. Are you the Jamie that was interested in an AT ART-9 I had for sale a while ago?
ah yes,i realised when i saw your sig list,i got there in the end with an ART-7.:cool:
I'm a wood freak myself but can only appreciate your individual approach here, looks very nicely done :thumbsup:
Thanks to all of you for the comments. The plinth did go through several design options in timber, one of which was soild African Ebony, but the final choice was for the acrylic. The arm is mounted on the central layer, or the bottom layer of acrylic, as is only in contact with the top and bottom (red) plates by 5 O rings, thereby isolating it to a good degree. The SAEC 506 is a wonderful arm indeed, but needs special attention setting up. I have an SME V that I intended to fit also, but as of yet, I'm still undecided whether I need it.
Anyone local is welcome to visit to hear it..
ah yes,i realised when i saw your sig list,i got there in the end with an ART-7.:cool:
Great, the ART's are good carts for the money.. You're welcome to come over for a listen..
Great, the ART's are good carts for the money.. You're welcome to come over for a listen..
thanks paul,yes perhaps compare turntables?
Hello Paul,
That really does look stunning now that you have finished it, I came over and listened to the deck last year prior to you having the plinth and it sounded sublime then, you must be pleased with it I know I would be.
Is the acrylic one piece or is it sandwiched with spacers?
Hello Paul,
Good to hear from you, yes it is good to have it finished, well almost..
The layers are seperated, with just 5 'O' rings holding them 1mm apart, the top layer supporting the motor unit, central layer supports the arm mount, and the base layer holds the whole lot on Aluminium turned feet. Quite a simple and effective approach.
If I remember correctly we discovered we had an issue with our local power networks transformer shortly after your visit, which had been affecting our supply, and sound. Once corrected, the system did sound better, though we are still negotiating for a new transformer to be installed.
Brownlow
29-11-2018, 06:36
That Sony looks absolutely gorgeous. I am quite partial to a bit of acrylic. Never thought of it on a TTS-8000. Very sweet looking and sounding TT.
Nonnegativ
01-01-2019, 17:39
Now a owner of a TTS-8000 for a few days and I am still experimenting with the deck.
I was looking for a Turntable for ambient & neo-classical and would never had thought of a DD-drive if it wasn't for this thread - thanks !
I must say it's a great sounding tt - mine is not as pretty as yours (yet.... :scratch:) and minor things needs fixing: Bulb exchange as earlier mentioned in this thread and I will have to sort out a proper armboard.
Question: Have you had any caps etc. Replaced ? They are getting quite old now.
I am still trying to figure out how attach pics inline, but here's mine:
24995
here you go :)
https://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=24995&d=1546363065
the tts-8000 is a brilliant turntable,some would say it betters the sp10 for speed accuracy.
the armboard i use and like is a material called HI MACS,its resin based and works really easy,ive tried panzerholz before and im happy with the HI MACS.
regarding the caps,no mine have not been replaced,i tend to think if its working fine then leave it be.
Nonnegativ
01-01-2019, 18:09
here you go :)
https://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=24995&d=1546363065
the tts-8000 is a brilliant turntable,some would say it betters the sp10 for speed accuracy.
the armboard i use and like is a material called HI MACS,its resin based and works really easy,ive tried panzerholz before and im happy with the HI MACS.
regarding the caps,no mine have not been replaced,i tend to think if its working fine then leave it be.
You continue to do your magic ! - thanks :)
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 18:09
here you go :)
https://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=24995&d=1546363065
the tts-8000 is a brilliant turntable,some would say it betters the sp10 for speed accuracy.
the armboard i use and like is a material called HI MACS,its resin based and works really easy,ive tried panzerholz before and im happy with the HI MACS.
regarding the caps,no mine have not been replaced,i tend to think if its working fine then leave it be."some would say it betters the sp10 for speed accuracy"
I, who's heard both, certainly wouldn't say that.
The strength of the TTS8000 Isn't outperforming the SP10, Its strength being slightly more organic or tonputnit a better way, has the ability of the best belt drives to sound totally fluid.
Which you'll find is down to the differences in plinth between yours and the SP10 In use on the day. The other reason is the way the motor works. It's "butterfly windings" make for a slightly smoother rotation. It's certainly one of the best turntables I've heard.
As you know Jamie, I rate the TTs8000 incredibly highly. It's a turntable one should aspire to own BUT for timing and speed accuracy, the SP10 MK2 is king IMO.
as you say mate,in your opinion.
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 19:03
as you say mate,in your opinion.Yes and only mine matters, to me [emoji23][emoji23]
Seriously, it's up there with the VPI and SP10 as the most impressive turntables I've heard.
Very interesting debate going on here and as I've never heard either turntable I can't comment on performance. However I do have a question, I know what a organic chicken is and an organic turnip but I just can't corelate organic to a turntable, can someone please explain. Also what does " tonputnit " mean, never heard the word before. Many thanks in advance.
Very interesting debate going on here and as I've never heard either turntable I can't comment on performance. However I do have a question, I know what a organic chicken is and an organic turnip but I just can't corelate organic to a turntable, can someone please explain. Also what does " tonputnit " mean, never heard the word before. Many thanks in advance.Imo it's a nonsense term used by audiophiles to try to explain sonic difference. It's in the audiophile index of shite alongside emotion and musicality.
I speak as an owner of a TTS8000. It's the best I've owned and one of the very best I've heard. It would cost a fortune if it was made today becaise it features a very high level engineering. The SP10 is also an excellent deck and with the TTS8000, the L07D and the Denon DP80, seminal decks in the history of Japanese audio excellence
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 20:17
Very interesting debate going on here and as I've never heard either turntable I can't comment on performance. However I do have a question, I know what a organic chicken is and an organic turnip but I just can't corelate organic to a turntable, can someone please explain. Also what does " tonputnit " mean, never heard the word before. Many thanks in advance.Well, to me , for something to be organic, it has to sound real. Think of listening to the radio in the car, you know someone is singing but it rarely takes on a human image being formed in front of you. That what organic means to me, a piece of equipment which has the capability to create the illusion of reality. Whether that be tone, imaging, liquidity, it doesn't really matter. The best pieces, like Jamie's sony, and my SP10, have the ability to reproduce the fluidity, tone and imaging to make you believe you are listening to a real person.
A lot comes down to supporting equipment too but when added into Angus's rig, Sony made me believe it was an organism creating the music. When the SP10 was in and the Wizard valve phonostage went in, the same thing happened again.
It was quite an eye opener.
Jamie has coupled his organic turntable to a forensic phonostage which together will be brilliant.
I have coupled a forensic turntable to an Organic phonostage which is brilliant.
There are other ways like adding Valves into the pre and power amp section like Jimbo
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 20:18
PS, that other word was my fat fingers pressing all the wrong keys [emoji3]
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 20:22
Imo it's a nonsense term used by audiophiles to try to explain sonic difference. It's in the audiophile index of shite alongside emotion and musicality.
I speak as an owner of a TTS8000. It's the best I've owned and one of the very best I've heard. It would cost a fortune if it was made today becaise it features a very high level engineering. The SP10 is also an excellent deck and with the TTS8000, the L07D and the Denon DP80, seminal decks in the history of Japanese audio excellence"Imo it's a nonsense term used by audiophiles to try to explain sonic difference. It's in the audiophile index of shite alongside emotion and musicality."
Hmm, I disagree.
If you don't connect emotionally with a recording via your system, you are missing out.
Musicality is another word for "good fun whilst not being entirely accurate" IMO.
I'm still not convinced it's a good way to describe what you hear but I do know it's very hard to put into words how you feel about performance and the listening experience. I also suffer from sausage finger syndrome.
I would make the effort to go and listen to Jamie's tt but he's banned me from his place in case I break the sofa with my fat arse.
"Imo it's a nonsense term used by audiophiles to try to explain sonic difference. It's in the audiophile index of shite alongside emotion and musicality."
Hmm, I disagree.
If you don't connect emotionally with a recording via your system, you are missing out.
Musicality is another word for "good fun whilst not being entirely accurate" IMO.You connect emotionally with the music. A hifi system reproduces the music with accuracy or with added euphony at the discretion of the owner.
I've heard people use musicality in many different ways because it's a nonsense phrase, open to interpretation yet meaning nowt!
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 20:27
You connect emotionally with the music. A hifi system reproduces the music with accuracy or with added euphony at the discretion of the owner.You can't connect emotionally with poorly reproduced audio.
No inanimate object can be emotional. To suggest So is ridiculous.
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 20:28
I've heard people use musicality in many different ways because it's a nonsense phrase, open to interpretation yet meaning nowt!Thats what I get when I read that in a review. "Musicality"
You can't connect emotionally with poorly reproduced audio.
No inanimate object can be emotional. To suggest So is ridiculous.First point nonsense. That would be to dismiss many old recordings as incapable of stirring emotions. Tell that to Mihaela Jackson.
Second point we agree. A hifi component cannot be emotional. The performance can be and we hope that our system reproduces it well.
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 20:36
First point nonsense. That would be to dismiss many old recordings as incapable of stirring emotions. Tell that to Mihaela Jackson.
Second point we agree. A hifi component cannot be emotional. The performance can be and we hope that our system reproduces it well.I'll tell "Mihaela Jackson" when I see him/her?.
[emoji1787]
We'll just have to respectfully disagree.
The recording isn't what's in question, you've moved the goal post.
There's an ability by the best gear to drop your jaw with a recording you've heard many times. That's the feeling of shock or euphoria. Emotion. For the Sony to be the best TT you've had, it must have given you a feeling that nothing else had. That's an emotional experience.
To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/hohnr22zTxc
I'll tell "Mihaela Jackson" when I see him/her?.
[emoji1787]
We'll just have to respectfully disagree.
The recording isn't what's in question, you've moved the goal post.
There's an ability by the best gear to drop your jaw with a recording you've heard many times. That's the feeling of shock or euphoria. Emotion. For the Sony to be the best TT you've had, it must have given you a feeling that nothing else had. That's an emotional experience.
To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.When you see her, tell her Oldy sent you and he sends his reverential best wishes!
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 20:41
When you see her, tell her Oldy sent you and he sends his reverential best wishes!Will do [emoji6]
id just like to point out that other opinions are available........:lol:
id just like to point out that other opinions are available........[emoji38]Does it come with a teaspoon of liquidity, twice a day?
[emoji1787]
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 21:04
Does it come with a teaspoon of liquidity, twice a day?
[emoji1787]I hope so or its be hard to swallow [emoji6]
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 21:05
id just like to point out that other opinions are available........[emoji38]Yes, sorry mate.
An inclusive thread is a fun thread. [emoji869]
I'll tell "Mihaela Jackson" when I see him/her?.
[emoji1787]
We'll just have to respectfully disagree.
The recording isn't what's in question, you've moved the goal post.
There's an ability by the best gear to drop your jaw with a recording you've heard many times. That's the feeling of shock or euphoria. Emotion. For the Sony to be the best TT you've had, it must have given you a feeling that nothing else had. That's an emotional experience.
To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
I missed the point about the recording.
No system, however great, can make a poor recording sound good. It can simply reproduce what is on the media well.
A great recording can, of course, make a difference to the way the listener feels because more of the performance is revealed. My point is that a system is not emotional, it can be revealing but can only ever display what is already there, it cannot do more.
sq225917
01-01-2019, 22:17
Having heard Jamie's I'd say it betters any sp10 ive heard, not heard a new one yet.
Bigman80
01-01-2019, 22:29
Having heard Jamie's I'd say it betters any sp10 ive heard, not heard a new one yet.
Madness,
I'm going to have to get one here in a Panzerholtz plinth and give it a thorough listening to. Do a full A/B comparison.
Only way to be sure. Good thing I know of one being put together.
sq225917
02-01-2019, 15:01
Not to be blowing smoke up Jamie's arse but his deck is probably the most speed stable I've heard. Better than the motus, better than old sp10s, better than the Chronus and all the big dick clearaudios. Quite a bit better than my sme10 was and better than my current deck is by a chunk of change.
Really very very good.
Idlewithnodrive
02-01-2019, 15:36
Having heard Jamie's I'd say it betters any sp10 ive heard, not heard a new one yet.
No reason to doubt that, at all.
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 15:41
"better than old sp10s"
Good job mine is fully refurbished and up to modern day spec.
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 16:22
Dont doubt the speed stability of the TTS-8000 at all but (audibly) better than an SP-10 ? - thats some statement.
The SP10 is a seriously speced, highend broadcast tt as that was the intent and aim of Technics from the offset, it has superb / 'perfect' speed stabilty - I've heard Angus's.
I'd guess that the SP-10 has better speed stability than my own quartz locked modded 1210 which is again 'perfect' to my ears, no hint of waiver or anything that ears would detect other than tight, pitch-perfect metronomic rhythm.
I doubt very much that the ears would be able to discern one's pitch stabilty better over the other of either deck running without issue at original and correct factory spec'...
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/tts-8000.shtml
Idlewithnodrive
02-01-2019, 16:39
The SP-10 is a very fine deck indeed but the best of its equivalent peer group ? I can't imagine that could be proved, or otherwise.
Surely it ultimately doesn't matter, as long as we have the best that we can afford, that suits our requirements / ears / tastes / listening environment.
Idlewithnodrive
02-01-2019, 16:43
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/tts-8000.shtml
against
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sp10.shtml
Identical wow and flutter
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 16:46
The SP-10 is a very fine deck indeed but the best of its equivalent peer group ? I can't imagine that could be proved, or otherwise.
Surely it ultimately doesn't matter, as long as we have the best that we can afford, that suits our requirements / ears / tastes / listening environment.
Exactly ! SP10, TTS-8000, PS-X9, Pioneer P3, Trio L07 D and the other top DD's, High end Denon, Micro Seiki etc etc all quartz locked dd's where it's more a case of different in terms of sound rather than pitch stability being audibly better type thing in my view.
It's like comparing exec / top Merc, BMW, Audi ... there all excellent high end cars, maybe a bit different if anything
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 16:47
Identical wow and flutter
Yep !
Idlewithnodrive
02-01-2019, 16:49
Identical wow and flutter
:thumbsup: 'zackly
Wouldn't imagine there is a determinable difference between most of the higher end Jap DD's as Mr. Gong above says.
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 16:52
Identical wow and flutterYet, apparently one has better speed, timing, etc blah blah [emoji42]
They are both high end TTs and anyone who owns either are very lucky to do so.
I agree. Those Japanese statement decks were really pushing the performance envelope.
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 16:56
I agree. Those Japanese statement decks were really pushing the performance envelope.[emoji106]
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 17:02
I agree. Those Japanese statement decks were really pushing the performance envelope.
Absolutely and big time !
Gosh ! to be able to get hold of one or two of those and minty would be something else :eek:
I've put a lot of labour love and dough into my Techie, If I was fortunate and funds permitting, two decks I'd be tempted to give my beloved Techies space are either a minty SP10 MK3 or PS -X9
In the meantime I'll continue slumming it :lol:
Idlewithnodrive
02-01-2019, 17:05
Absolutely and big time !
a minty SP10 MK3
What's 5 or 6 Grand between friends ?
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 17:06
What's 5 or 6 Grand between friends ?
:D
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 17:12
Back to the TTS-8000 directly.
It is a deck that caught my radar too.
What Jamie and the other TTS-8000 owners will be getting is not only is it a top notch dd but it's described presentation of being a combo - 'fluid and whilst still clearly being a direct-drive is like the best of both belt-drive and direct-drive slant'
Now that's an enticing draw if ever I saw / read one :thumbsup:
Back to the TTS-8000 directly.
It is a deck that caught my radar too.
What Jamie and the other TTS-8000 owners will be getting is not only is it a top notch dd but it's described presentation of being a combo - 'fluid and whilst still clearly being a direct-drive is like the best of both belt-drive and direct-drive slant'
Now that's an enticing draw if ever I saw / read one :thumbsup:
Robbie,you are more than welcome to hear for yourself anytime mate :cool:
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 17:35
Robbie,you are more than welcome to hear for yourself anytime mate :cool:
Cheers bro,
I'm not a million miles away in London so yeah, when it gets warmer cause I love visiting Brighton too :)
Beobloke
02-01-2019, 19:25
:thumbsup: 'zackly
Wouldn't imagine there is a determinable difference between most of the higher end Jap DD's as Mr. Gong above says.
There are two that are better than the others, for the simple reason that they have the ability to centre the record correctly...
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 19:28
There are two that are better than the others, for the simple reason that they have the ability to centre the record correctly...Funny that,
One of the turntables had an off centre platter. Looked like a speed fluctuation initially but on closer inspection it was the platter itself.
Which ones do you consider to have that superior ability, Adam?
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 19:34
There are two that are better than the others, for the simple reason that they have the ability to centre the record correctly...
:doh: 'ave a word, I give in... :lol:
Funny that,
One of the turntables had an off centre platter. Looked like a speed fluctuation initially but on closer inspection it was the platter itself.
i like to think it makes the sound more organic personally:lol:
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 19:50
nakamichi me thinks.Good shout.
Anyway, comparing dicks aside, how's the rig mate. Has the paradise bedded in?
Any development with the JW amp or is it staying integrated?
Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 19:53
Good shout.
Anyway, comparing dicks aside, how's the rig mate. Has the paradise bedded in?
Any development with the JW amp or is it staying integrated?
Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk
Speak for ya self mate :lol:
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 20:08
Speak for ya self mate [emoji38][emoji85]
Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk
RobbieGong
02-01-2019, 20:19
[emoji85]
Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk
Yeah, it's all comin' out now Oli boy ... :eek: :lol:
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 20:27
Yeah, it's all comin' out now Oli boy ... :eek: [emoji38]Thats the problem, I can't keep it all in [emoji23]
Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk
The Link will enlighten on 70/80's Model, Japanese as well as other brands DD TT's.
http://www.oocities.org/de/bc1a69/index_eng.html
Bigman80
02-01-2019, 20:38
i like to think it makes the sound more organic personally[emoji38][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] killer.
Beobloke
02-01-2019, 21:01
nakamichi me thinks.
Yup. TX-1000 and Dragon CT.
paulf-2007
03-01-2019, 14:55
Imo it's a nonsense term used by audiophiles to try to explain sonic difference. It's in the audiophile index of shite alongside emotion and musicality.
I speak as an owner of a TTS8000. It's the best I've owned and one of the very best I've heard. It would cost a fortune if it was made today becaise it features a very high level engineering. The SP10 is also an excellent deck and with the TTS8000, the L07D and the Denon DP80, seminal decks in the history of Japanese audio excellence
There certainly is some crap spouted when trying to describe how something sounds. It might be interesting to hear the tts8000, sp10 and dp80 in the same room, with their own cart/phono stage combo into the same amp/speaker combo, but then something would cast doubt on the outcome. I'll just stick with my dp80, does it for me.
think at level of these decks, the similarities will outweigh the differences.
paulf-2007
03-01-2019, 15:16
think at level of these decks, the similarities will outweigh the differences.
I totally agree
You guys need to get together and bake off these turntables.:)
Bigman80
03-01-2019, 16:50
You guys need to get together and bake off these turntables.:)I'd be up for it.
It wpuld be a fun event but comparisons of decks are not possible without the same arm and cartridge combination on each.
Bigman80
03-01-2019, 17:36
It wpuld be a fun event but comparisons of decks are not possible without the same arm and cartridge combination on each.Jamie and I have the same Arm, can fit the same cart, I could even borrow another AT1010 to put on the DP80.
It's not impossible!!!
I could bring along my VPI and show you all what a good belter can do!:)
Bigman80
03-01-2019, 18:49
I could bring along my VPI and show you all what a good belter can do!:)Jim, the VPI is a class act. No doubt.
Beobloke
03-01-2019, 20:42
I could bring along my VPI and show you all what a good belter can do!:)
Meh. Belts are for keeping your trousers up.
:D
paulf-2007
04-01-2019, 15:21
Meh. Belts are for keeping your trousers up.
:D:lol: and so true
The Link is to a web page that has the available download, to make a cut out for a TTS 8000 or 6000 in a plinth.
This thread seems a good place to make it known.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/tts-8000.shtml
Nonnegativ
08-03-2019, 20:04
I could not resist when a Sony PUA-1600s tonearm came up in Asia for a decent price - and I am still wondering about a Sony XL 55 Pro cartridge to match the TTS-8000. I am slowly becoming an old analogue nostalgic fart, I guess :scratch:
Just mounted for a quick listen before I dismantle the tonearm for cleaning etc:
https://i.postimg.cc/WbLCnDtX/IMG-20190308-165353.jpg
Although fitted with a crappy Jelco JAC-506 tonearm cable (the only one I got) I must say the PUA-1600s shows some promise. The combination TTS-8000 & PUA-1600s is not that far from the other arms (Helius Omega Ruby & Terminator3pro) which has been mounted on the TTS-8000.
So it's all Japanese this weekend: TTS-8000 with PUA-1600s & Lyra Delos. Right now No-Man "Returning Jesus" is spinning - just to make you Brits happy :eyebrows:
Fiddlefye
09-03-2019, 23:49
Imo it's a nonsense term used by audiophiles to try to explain sonic difference. It's in the audiophile index of shite alongside emotion and musicality.
I speak as an owner of a TTS8000. It's the best I've owned and one of the very best I've heard. It would cost a fortune if it was made today because it features a very high level engineering. The SP10 is also an excellent deck and with the TTS8000, the L07D and the Denon DP80, seminal decks in the history of Japanese audio excellence
I have a friend who owns a TTS-8000. I have a Denon DP-80. Very different approaches to solving a problem, but both work wonderfully. I was never a DD fan - had a few mid-level tables and my upper tier were always belt or idler drive. On a whim I picked up the DP-80 and (with two arms) it is now the table in my main system. It really just does everything right and makes it look (and sound) effortless in the bargain.
new cartridge to try, sounding nice,im not sure of the hours and i can bearly see the tip (story of my life!)
https://i.postimg.cc/LsnqRHNY/IMG-3249-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/G2DH8X0b/IMG-3250-1.jpg
DiveDeepDog
25-04-2019, 17:41
I can see the fluff :lol:
Bigman80
25-04-2019, 18:04
Looks like it needs some fancy screws lol
How's the alignment compared to the ART9?
it seems fine mate plus i have the added bonus of doing small tweaks tightening or loosening the screws,a fiddlers delight! lol
im seriously thinking about cancelling the ART-9.
what loading and tracking weight do you use,200 ish ohms seems about right to me,tracking at 2.5g
Nonnegativ
25-04-2019, 18:55
new cartridge to try, sounding nice,im not sure of the hours and i can bearly see the tip (story of my life!)
Is it the one which was up for sale in Denmark ?
Bigman80
25-04-2019, 18:57
it seems fine mate plus i have the added bonus of doing small tweaks tightening or loosening the screws,a fiddlers delight! lol
im seriously thinking about cancelling the ART-9.
what loading and tracking weight do you use,200 ish ohms seems about right to me,tracking at 2.5gPhew! I am seriously relieved lol. I hated pointing that site out but they have always been good to me. Glad it's worked out fine.
Loading:
I load mine at 250R as i had the exact value resistors to make it. I have loaded at 200R and 220R but I prefer 250.
Weight:
2.5g is what mines at I think. It was setup by Angus who is my Ortofon guru so maybe he can chime in.
I had the ART7, Vienna and Kb here at the same time over an extended listen and obviously with the Vienna being unobtainable, it being "the best" of the three made no difference. Over a week or so of constant listening, the Kb outdid the ART7 on bottom end detail and soundstage width IMHumbleO but you may have had a different result.
As Mikey said, it's not shy of bass, regardless of accusations of the Ortofon house sound being sterile, that's because it was made before the went detail/lean tone crazy.
Its a great listen and only one cartridge will dislodge mine, IF I can ever get one.
Is it the one which was up for sale in Denmark ?
no this has come from austria,
Phew! I am seriously relieved lol. I hated pointing that site out but they have always been good to me. Glad it's worked out fine.
Loading:
I load mine at 250R as i had the exact value resistors to make it. I have loaded at 200R and 220R but I prefer 250.
Weight:
2.5g is what mines at I think. It was setup by Angus who is my Ortofon guru so maybe he can chime in.
I had the ART7, Vienna and Kb here at the same time over an extended listen and obviously with the Vienna being unobtainable, it being "the best" of the three made no difference. Over a week or so of constant listening, the Kb outdid the ART7 on bottom end detail and soundstage width IMHumbleO but you may have had a different result.
As Mikey said, it's not shy of bass, regardless of accusations of the Ortofon house sound being sterile, that's because it was made before the went detail/lean tone crazy.
Its a great listen and only one cartridge will dislodge mine, IF I can ever get one.
to me at the moment it sounds more real with texture to the sound if you know what i mean,very good in the bass dept too.
Bigman80
25-04-2019, 19:13
to me at the moment it sounds more real with texture to the sound if you know what i mean,very good in the bass dept too.I know exactly what you mean and it's why I've been ultra reluctant to get mine retipped and upgraded by Killian. I want to wear it out first.
Reading between the lines it's quite organic then …...:eyebrows:
Bigman80
25-04-2019, 19:30
Reading between the lines it's quite organic then …...:eyebrows:Its got this uncanny ability to create a very life-like quality to the sound. Shape and dimension to vocals and instruments without discrimination.
I think, if you can find one, they are one of the best cartridges about and I've compared a great many.
If I'd found anything better, that was still available, I'd have bought it.
phonomac
25-04-2019, 19:43
Weight:
2.5g is what mines at I think. It was setup by Angus who is my Ortofon guru so maybe he can chime in.
I run the Vienna (and the Kontrapunkt B before that) at 2.6gm. I've always found somewhere in the upper half of the recommended range works best for me.
Bigman80
25-04-2019, 19:44
I run the Vienna (and the Kontrapunkt B before that) at 2.6gm. I've always found somewhere in the upper half of the recommended range works best for me.Ah! There we go!
I run the Vienna (and the Kontrapunkt B before that) at 2.6gm. I've always found somewhere in the upper half of the recommended range works best for me.
Cheers Angus, hope your keeping well:cool:
DiveDeepDog
27-04-2019, 15:39
For those of you that haven’t got one yet :-)
Sony TTS 8000 Direct Drive Turntable https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 183789700007
AJSki2fly
27-04-2019, 15:53
That looks very nice Jamie, well done, let us know how it sounds.
update,
a few more good listening sessions with the KB and oh joy!
ive spent a few hours dialling in the azimuth and sra angle,the KB is very easy to get azimuth spot on due to the 3 raised lines on top of the cartridge,to adjust you just tighten or loosen one cartridge bolt and it tilts.
the sra angle is a lot more harder to dial in,the KB uses a Fritz Geiger 80 stylus profile and imo has it a very narrow sweet spot but strangely still sounds good outside of this.
it took me 2 hours to get it sounding right to my ears and also on a selection of lp's i know well, using some piano only tracks getting it right brought out the lovely harmonics and decay to the strings,i think im there but will give it a few more days listening and some small vtf tweaks to see if i can squeeze some more detail out of her.
i thought id miss the audio technica art-7 but frankly im not,the KB has better bass and is more accurate sounding especially acoustic guitar tracks,it has a warmer over all tone than the art-7 which can be a little too clinical.
so for now im happy....oh and better bolts fitted just for oli! :)
up close and personal!
https://i.postimg.cc/tRt4mtyB/Sun-May-05-15-53-27.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/YC3pdpHj/IMG-3287.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/CLpSYZMz/IMG-3288.jpg
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 20:33
Pretty much the same conclusion I came to when I had them both available.
The ART7 was a super cartridge bit once you get that kB dialed in, it's almost unstoppable.
A true audiophile cartridge. Well done for taking the plunge mate.
Yes a great cartridge, I did not find it particularly difficult to dial in compared to the 2M black. Nice full, smooth analogue sound with plenty of detail and bass weight I thought.
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 20:44
Yes a great cartridge, I did not find it particularly difficult to dial in compared to the 2M black. Nice full, smooth analogue sound with plenty of detail and bass weight I thought.Agreed. Timbre is excellent too
I always thought Fritz Gyger looks like the one on the top right on attached photo and SRA is the angle between tracked surface and the rear facet
https://i.imgur.com/j8vOH1C.jpg
While ago I took photo of my Replicant stylus and it looks like this :
https://i.imgur.com/e9qIxZB.jpg
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 09:09
I always thought Fritz Gyger looks like the one on the top right on attached photo and SRA is the angle between tracked surface and the rear facet
Ortofon states the tracking angle of the Kontrapunkt B as 20 degrees.
Ortofon states the tracking angle of the Kontrapunkt B as 20 degrees.
VTA is a vertical tracking angle , I'm talking about SRA -stylus rake angle , here is a picture how to set up Replicant stylus taken from Ortofon website:
https://i.imgur.com/1AzZwpx.jpg
Rake angle should be setup between tracking surface and rear facet
and cross section taken from Fritz Gyger US patent :
https://i.imgur.com/2X48bk6.png
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 09:43
VTA is a vertical tracking angle , I'm talking about SRA -stylus rake angle , here is a picture how to set up Replicant stylus taken from Ortofon website:
https://i.imgur.com/1AzZwpx.jpg
Rake angle should be setup between tracking surface and rear facetYes you are correct! That'll teach me for scanning the post while I should be working lol
Yes you are correct! That'll teach me for scanning the post while I should be working lol
We all do that from time to time ,
my point is that the angle of Jamie's picture must be wrong as it looks nothing like Fritz Gyger stylus
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 11:12
We all do that from time to time ,
my point is that the angle of Jamie's picture must be wrong as it looks nothing like Fritz Gyger stylusJust had a look at mine best I can and it looks very similar to Jamie's.
Rear of the cartridge is level and so it the headshell against the record surface.
Admittedly, I can't see the stylus very well.
We all do that from time to time ,
my point is that the angle of Jamie's picture must be wrong as it looks nothing like Fritz Gyger stylus
that picture was taken on a cd,with a torch shinning from behind,it wasn't set up for correct sra.
phonomac
06-05-2019, 17:43
The Replicant is an FGS profile (described in the Fritz Gyger patent) and is quite different from the FGII which is the stylus profile on the Kontrapunkt B, so Ollie's and Jamie's pictures aren't going to look like the stylus in the top right of the picture. I covered this when I responded to the statement that the Vienna FGS (or Jimbo's retipped 2M) was the same as the Cadenza Blue - not remotely the same.
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 17:56
The Replicant is an FGS profile (described in the Fritz Gyger patent) and is quite different from the FGII which is the stylus profile on the Kontrapunkt B, so Ollie's and Jamie's pictures aren't going to look like the stylus in the top right of the picture. I covered this when I responded to the statement that the Vienna FGS (or Jimbo's retipped 2M) was the same as the Cadenza Blue - not remotely the same.Thanks Angus, as usual you know the details.
perhaps he will comment on are tonearm differences?
post 139 https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?62737-Bigblog-The-Revolving-Door-of-HiFi-Auditioning/page14
The Replicant is an FGS profile (described in the Fritz Gyger patent) and is quite different from the FGII which is the stylus profile on the Kontrapunkt B, so Ollie's and Jamie's pictures aren't going to look like the stylus in the top right of the picture. I covered this when I responded to the statement that the Vienna FGS (or Jimbo's retipped 2M) was the same as the Cadenza Blue - not remotely the same.
Yes , I have found some more details/differences between FGII and FGS , it's clearly visible on the cross- sections below :
https://i.imgur.com/vZcmulZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nB6LFYJ.jpg
To be honest after owning Cadenza Blue with standard FG stylus and Bronze with Replicant if I have a choice I would never go back to the former .
Kontrapunkt B is a very nice cartridge btw , after hearing one I bought Cadenza Blue which in my opinion was better than "B" , I have also demoed Cadenza Black but despite being more truthful there was something not right/missing in the sound .
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 18:38
Yes , I have found some more details/differences between FGII and FGS , it's clearly visible on the cross- sections below :
https://i.imgur.com/vZcmulZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nB6LFYJ.jpg
To be honest after owning Cadenza Blue with standard FG stylus and Bronze with Replicant if I have a choice I would never go back to the former .
Kontrapunkt B is a very nice cartridge btw , after hearing one I bought Cadenza Blue which in my opinion was better than "B" , I have also demoed Cadenza Black but despite being more truthful there was something not right/missing in the sound .It'll be a different world when they get retipped and upgraded to Vienna status (or as close as possible)
Get behind me boys, you'll have to try harder to beat this....:ner:
http://i65.tinypic.com/2qs8jd1.jpg
phonomac
06-05-2019, 19:40
Hello Jamie, apart from the possibility that one or both of you might need to check your alignment :eyebrows: two things strike me - yours is on a sliding mount which may have moved, and although quite difficult to tell from the photos the cantilever on yours actually looks a bit shorter than Ollie's
perhaps he will comment on are tonearm differences?
post 139 https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?62737-Bigblog-The-Revolving-Door-of-HiFi-Auditioning/page14
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 21:43
Hello Jamie, apart from the possibility that one or both of you might need to check your alignment :eyebrows: two things strike me - yours is on a sliding mount which may have moved, and although quite difficult to tell from the photos the cantilever on yours actually looks a bit shorter than Ollie'sNot touched mine since you did it. As soon as I can find the protractor, I'll have a look.
Hello Jamie, apart from the possibility that one or both of you might need to check your alignment :eyebrows: two things strike me - yours is on a sliding mount which may have moved, and although quite difficult to tell from the photos the cantilever on yours actually looks a bit shorter than Ollie's
mines on a fixed mount angus the same as oli's,i know my distance is correct as ive just put some gasket paper between the plinth and tt so i had to re set the mounting distance again.
Oli, do me a favour and measure your mounting distance, ie spindle to pivot please
Bigman80
07-05-2019, 05:46
Oli, do me a favour and measure your mounting distance, ie spindle to pivot pleaseWill do.
phonomac
07-05-2019, 14:12
This is how to get an accurate measure of pivot-to-spindle using a digital caliper.
First measure across the outside of the spindle and arm pillar:
https://i.ibb.co/kBzpxd6/P5070004.jpg
Them measure between the spindle and pillar
https://i.ibb.co/7ndLgYb/P5070005.jpg
These measurements need to be done with the arm in place, just lift it enough to get the jaws under the arm platform and onto the pillar.
Now take the average of these readings and you have the exact pivot-to-spindle centre distance.
In this case (238.53+211.30)/2 = 224.915 mm
I'll post the calipers up to Ollie to check his deck and then he can send them on to Jamie.
Bigman80
07-05-2019, 15:03
This is how to get an accurate measure of pivot-to-spindle using a digital caliper.
First measure across the outside of the spindle and arm pillar:
https://i.ibb.co/kBzpxd6/P5070004.jpg
Them measure between the spindle and pillar
https://i.ibb.co/7ndLgYb/P5070005.jpg
These measurements need to be done with the arm in place, just lift it enough to get the jaws under the arm platform and onto the pillar.
Now take the average of these readings and you have the exact pivot-to-spindle centre distance.
In this case (238.53+211.30)/2 = 224.915 mm
I'll post the calipers up to Ollie to check his deck and then he can send them on to Jamie.Ok, no worries. I have a pair here but they're manual ones. Wouldn't be 100% accurate.
cheers angus,in the meantime i did mine like this,i drilled two holes in a piece of plywood,one for the spindle and one for a pencil,(kept at 90 degrees with a square),at 225 centers. i then marked the tonearmboard and drilled the hole for the tonearm pillar.
ive just checked it again and still get 225mm center to center.
https://i.postimg.cc/NM61kX22/IMG-3301-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4yXpL3pL/IMG-3303-1.jpg
300mm calipers are quite expensive
phonomac
07-05-2019, 18:15
Hello Jamie,
Your method should be fine, and it certainly looks OK. We'll find out one way or the other why the two setups look so different.
Patrick Dixon
14-05-2019, 18:00
Based on the enthusiasm shown on this thread, I appear to have purchased a Sony TTS-8000. Haven't got any other DD decks, so I'm interested to see how it compares to my various idlers; Thorens TD124 Mk2, Garrard 301 and EMT 927.
Not sure what arm I will use yet; I think I have another Mission 774 kicking around so maybe I'll start with that.
Is there anything I should know when I collect and transport it?
I owned two excellent idler drives: a 401 in slate plinth and a Goldring G99 in slate also. I kept the TTS8000 and it is a genuinely high end deck. It would cost a lot of money to buy now; tens of thousands if made by a more boutique firm, I expect.
Bigman80
14-05-2019, 19:13
Based on the enthusiasm shown on this thread, I appear to have purchased a Sony TTS-8000. Haven't got any other DD decks, so I'm interested to see how it compares to my various idlers; Thorens TD124 Mk2, Garrard 301 and EMT 927.
Not sure what arm I will use yet; I think I have another Mission 774 kicking around so maybe I'll start with that.
Is there anything I should know when I collect and transport it?Congratulations on the purchase! I think there are transportation screw holes in it somewhere but I'd have to check. If there are, bolt it down and just look after the platter. If the magnetic strip gets damaged it'll never keep speed accurately again.
Most importantly, get phonomac to make you a Panzerholtz plinth. Ive heard one in the original resonic plinth (?), and one in the Panzerholtz. The Panzerholtz sounded a bit more neutral.
Just my opinion.
Enjoy! Oh, the mission arm will be nice on that, if it'll fit.
I have set the TT up in the image, so that it shows the two red transit screws properly located.
These are usually seen stored in two holes in one of the white label positions.
You'll become very fond of this deck.
26055
Patrick Dixon
14-05-2019, 20:50
Thanks Guys, that's brilliant!
Beobloke
15-05-2019, 11:43
Agreed - they are superb decks and very under-rated. I preferred mine to a Technics SP10 Mk2 and still sometimes wonder whether I should have sold it or not!
Agreed I’ve heard both as well, mines not going anywhere
Patrick Dixon
15-05-2019, 17:52
I preferred mine to a Technics SP10 Mk2 and still sometimes wonder whether I should have sold it or not!
I assume, since you are Buriedunderaloadofturntables, that you've kept something that you thought was at least as good?
I find it hard to part with turntables; I sold my LP12s and have no regrets, but I got the 301 rebuilt by Classic turntables and 2 years later it's still in the box waiting for me to sort out the plinth.
I need to find the right arm too. Something that just works and sounds and looks fantastic would fit the bill, especially if it makes a Decca sing. Maybe I should just save up and buy a Kuzma 4 point or something, but it's a lot of money and I've never heard one.
Beobloke
15-05-2019, 19:29
I assume, since you are Buriedunderaloadofturntables, that you've kept something that you thought was at least as good?
Indeed. I found myself with three Sony turntables - the TTS-8000, a PS-X9 and a Biotracer PS-B80 - and I decided one had to go. The PS-X9 isn't going anywhere (ever!) and the Biotracer is just so funky that the TTS-8000 sadly drew the short straw.
RobbieGong
15-05-2019, 19:39
Indeed. I found myself with three Sony turntables - the TTS-8000, a PS-X9 and a Biotracer PS-B80 - and I decided one had to go. The PS-X9 isn't going anywhere (ever!) and the Biotracer is just so funky that the TTS-8000 sadly drew the short straw.
I'm in no doubt that the PS-X9 is a bit spesh :)
I assume, since you are Buriedunderaloadofturntables, that you've kept something that you thought was at least as good?
I find it hard to part with turntables; I sold my LP12s and have no regrets, but I got the 301 rebuilt by Classic turntables and 2 years later it's still in the box waiting for me to sort out the plinth.
I need to find the right arm too. Something that just works and sounds and looks fantastic would fit the bill, especially if it makes a Decca sing. Maybe I should just save up and buy a Kuzma 4 point or something, but it's a lot of money and I've never heard one.
A zeta would be a good choice, supposedly designed around a Decca cartridge.
I'm in no doubt that the PS-X9 is a bit spesh :)
I’d love to see let alone hear one
Hello Jamie,
Your method should be fine, and it certainly looks OK. We'll find out one way or the other why the two setups look so different.
any news on this yet chaps?
Bigman80
18-05-2019, 07:07
any news on this yet chaps?Not yet. Still can't find my protractor
paulf-2007
18-05-2019, 07:17
I have a friend who owns a TTS-8000. I have a Denon DP-80. Very different approaches to solving a problem, but both work wonderfully. I was never a DD fan - had a few mid-level tables and my upper tier were always belt or idler drive. On a whim I picked up the DP-80 and (with two arms) it is now the table in my main system. It really just does everything right and makes it look (and sound) effortless in the bargain.
DP80 works for me too. I'm sure the Sony is virtually indistinguishable in sound quality from the denon
Not yet. Still can't find my protractor
ah ok,i thought angus was going to send his calipers to you to check?
Bigman80
18-05-2019, 08:44
ah ok,i thought angus was going to send his calipers to you to check?I'm sure he will but I know he's got lots of work on. And probably needs them at the minute.
in that case why dont you just measure with a tape from center of spindle to the center of the tonearm pivot yourself,it will give an indication if your in the ball park at least.its very simple to do
Bigman80
18-05-2019, 09:05
in that case why dont you just measure with a tape from center of spindle to the center of the tonearm pivot yourself,it will give an indication if your in the ball park at least.its very simple to doI will mate, I'd forgotten to look tbf.
I'll do it later
Bigman80
18-05-2019, 09:39
in that case why dont you just measure with a tape from center of spindle to the center of the tonearm pivot yourself,it will give an indication if your in the ball park at least.its very simple to doRight!
I have measured it roughly with a metal rule. From what I can see, it's 225mm. Id put money on it being spot on, knowing Angus. I can't be 100% sure without taking the arm out.
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