New to hi-fi.. what to buy?

[nunogrl]

Hello all

I've been checking on some stores what's the best solution for me...
I don't have a TV set, or DVD or blu-ray or play games.
I do have a computer at home with a 27 inch screen, and I often watch netflix contents, youtube or play some mp3.

Since all my audio content is only stereo, I'm a bit apprehensive about what amplifier to get.
I used to drive a lot, and I miss the immersive feeling you have in a car with several speakers so I would like to achieve the same.

I went to a store and asked for advise and they suggested me to be away of the the all surround systems as those are meant mostly for multichannel content and on playing stereo content, most of the speakers would only introduce noise.
Said that, the solution presented do me was the Yamaha R-N303D - which I'm almost convinced is my best choice.
Has 4 channels and is mostly focused on streaming media. As far as I understood, it relies too much on a app... on the first sight I can't find fader or balance buttons on the panel.

The day after I left the store I found a deal for Denton 2 speakers on my area. I saw some reviews and bought them. I was super excited as I got my first element of my set.
I've been googling around and found that this speaker have an impedance of 6 ohms. The amplifier manual is clear that I shouldn't connect speakers with an impedance lower than 8 ohms. I accept that ... but makes me wondering, because I can that is possible to adjust some amplifiers to lower impedance speakers.

My studio is not square shaped, is more in shape of a cross.. the larger dimensions for each side are 6m x 8m respectively, so I would definitely like to have more than one set of speakers.

What amplifier would you recommend to add to my Denton 2 (6 ohm) speakers?
(I have no idea about the sound of the speakers, I bought them as they are, and didn't had the chance to try them)

Or forget about the Denton and get another thing? What kind of specs should I be looking for? Looking for "4 channel amplifier" most of the times I found solutions to put speakers in multilple rooms with different content per room - that's is not what I'm looking for.

Thanks for your time :)


PS: I believe I've posted in the wrong section. I would like to kindly ask one of the moderators to move this to the appropriate section. Thanks

[walpurgis]

Moved from Welcome area.

[walpurgis]

If you want a very capable bargain of a stereo amp and don't mind second hand, take a look at the Denon PMA-350SE. It'll drive any speakers you are likely to use and sound extremely good doing so. Prices vary between £60 and £100, there are some mint examples about. If you're lucky you may find one with the optional phono stage (if you need one).

Surround sound just means more speakers, not necessarily better sound. The best Hi-Fi's tend to be stereo only with just two speakers. It's a personal choice though.

[nunogrl]

Thanks for the help! :)

Right now I'll use what I have, so only 2 speakers, but my intention would be to add more.

Would you say that the
Denon PMA720AE Integrated Amplifier
would be aligned with that one you suggested?




Denon PMA-350SE
Denon PMA-720AE



Power Output
50W into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency Response
20Hz to 20kHz
Distortion
0.05%
Speaker Impedance
4 to 16Ω
Input Sensitivity
150mV (line)
Signal to Noise Ratio
98dB (line)
Line Output
150mV (line)
Accessories
optional RC-819 remote control
Dimensions
434 x 120 x 286 mm
Weight
6.2 kg


Power Output
50W into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency Response
20Hz to 20kHz
Distortion
0.07%
Speaker Impedance
4 to 16Ω
Input Sensitivity
2.5mV (mm), 120mV (line)
Signal to Noise Ratio
86dB (mm), 107dB (line)
Line Output
150mV (line)
Dimensions
434 x 308 x 121 mm
Weight
7.1 kg
Year
2012

[bobvfr]

I think you need to think basics.

The point of Hi-Fi is to produce high quality sound, and even basic (Proper) hi-fi gear will do that, but the best way to look at it is to split the process into three distinct areas.


Source: Although I would normally put the speakers as top priority, even the best speakers and amplifier will not make a bad source signal good, for example I use an Xbox One X as my source (CD, DVD, Blu Ray, file player) I can pop in a CD, play .FLAC files (Higher res than MP3) and they sound great, but the Spotify app on the Xbox One doesn't have a setting to play high res files, so it sounds crap when played through my Pioneer receiver and Tannoy Cheviot speakers (It sounded just as crap through my Quad 33/405 combination). It is acceptable through the TV speakers for casual listening, but not if you want true hi-fi, it is like going back in time to the early cassette decks compared to a quality turntable with a good vinyl recording.


And as mentioned, stereo is two channel, playing stereo on multiple speakers just muddies the point of it, I have a receiver with 5.1 so capable of running two front, two rear and a centre speaker along with a sub woofer, but I just set it to stereo output and only have two speakers as in my opinion this is the best way to listen to stereo music. I intend to "upgrade" this receiver with a decent stereo amp soon (When I have some pennies and can finally make up my mind what one I want).


So having a good source is vital, a PC can do this but have a look at using .FLAC files compared to MP3 as some of the lower res MP3 files aren't up to Hi-Fi standard, no point spending money on good gear if the recordings are low res.


Amplification/other stuff, cables etc: Even budget modern amplifiers will sound OK, this wasn't always the case for example in the sixties or seventies, some budget amps were really crap (My first Amstrad as an example, the volume etc has sliders and made so much noise). Some people suggest spending lots on cables, I still use basic cables, I have listened to systems with expensive ones, I have tried some, but you don't "Need" them (I accept others disagree with this) especially if the source is suspect to start with.


Speakers/Room/Spacing etc: This is important, I would normally set up my speakers with the tweeters as near to head height as possible when you are sitting in your fav listening position, with the speakers set at about 35% either side of your chair (You can find the proper angle with diagrams online), if your speakers are large with good bass response (Like my Cheviots) you don't need to place them that near a back wall or corner, smaller bookshelf speakers sometimes need a little bit of help by going nearer to a wall or corner.

I have played with multi channel setups, but to me stereo is still the best way to listen to music and sorry to say for most multi channel films as well.

[nunogrl]

Thanks for the feedback!!! Really valuable information, RothwellAudio and bobvfr !

Right now I'm divided between these three:

2 speakers output:
- Denon 520 Series Integrated Amplifier £179.00 - Argos

4 speakers output
- Denon PMA720AE Integrated Amplifier - Black 179£ - Amazon
- Pioneer A-10-K 50W Stereo Amplifier - Black 149£ - Amazon


Trully annoys me to have the Denton speakers in a box and being listening right now to something equivalent to laptop speakers :rolleyes: :D

[hifi_dave]

All three of those amps are stereo, even though two you have listed as having 4 speakers output.

Do you have a Hi-Fi shop near you ? As they should be able to guide you rather than just buying blind on Amazon or Argos.

[nunogrl]

For me would be really important to get the definitive amplifier than something to just test and later make an upgrade beacause my choice doesn't suit the needs.

I like the network stereo system from yamaha - which has all the streaming capabilities (bluetooth, spotify, DAB, radio FM, etc), unfortunately doesn't accept speakers with an impedance lower than 8 ohm.

[nunogrl]

hifi_dave:
Hi went to richer sounds at London and they advise me to get the Yamaha R-N303D
on the manual is advised to not connect speakers lower than 8 ohm of impedance, and there's where I got confused about this choice...

thanks for your help

[struth]

is there a reason why you want more than 2 speakers? most amps that can take 4 speakers, you are just puting 2 speakers into 1 channel, and this will change the ohmage of them dramatically.. ie if 2 speakers are 4 ohm, them it will be seen as 2 ohms. as they will probably be connected in parallel. mix the ohmage and it will be different again. if the are connected in series then 2 8ohm speakers would end up being 16ohm load. . only good reason might be if you have 2 zones to send music then keep speakers at 8.

[hifi_dave]

hifi_dave:
Hi went to richer sounds at London and they advise me to get the Yamaha R-N303D
on the manual is advised to not connect speakers lower than 8 ohm of impedance, and there's where I got confused about this choice...

thanks for your help

No problem with the Wharfedales if you are just using a stereo pair. If you want to use two pairs (4) speakers at the same time, you might need to consider something else.

[walpurgis]

By the way. If you are using a stereo source, having four speakers is a waste of time and may cock up the imaging.

As has been indicated, four 8 ohm speakers connected in parallel will present a 4 ohm load to each of two channels.



.

[Lawrence001]

I'd start again with this with some second hand gear. Surround sound can work well with 4 or 5 Speakers. You can get older amps for £50-80 now with DTS and Dolby Surround II music mode which can be quite nice (eg Denon). You want the same 4 speakers front and back (or smaller versions at the back) and a matching centre speaker (eg wharfedale diamonds 8 or 9). There's no reason this shouldn't set you back more than £250-300 in total if you keep an eye out for bargains and you live in an urban area or are prepared to travel.

Where do you live I'll do a quick search for you?

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

[Pieoftheday]

For me would be really important to get the definitive amplifier than something to just test and later make an upgrade beacause my choice doesn't suit the needs.

I like the network stereo system from yamaha - which has all the streaming capabilities (bluetooth, spotify, DAB, radio FM, etc), unfortunately doesn't accept speakers with an impedance lower than 8 ohm.

Oh dear, the definitive amplifier? If your just beginning that may be some way off!

[mikmas]

Personally, if you're after a similar wrap around experience you get in a car I don't know why you don't just cut to the chase and buy a proper AV amp with multi-speaker capabilities rather than pratting about and potentially overloading a stereo amp. Who cares if you don't use the TV inputs, just ignore the inputs you don't use ;)

This looks like a very capable beast and has plenty of options to at least be capable for the present and immediate tech future:

Denon AVRX2400 - £299
https://www.richersounds.com/media/catalog/product/3/1/319314.jpg?width=700&height=700&quality=80&bg-color=255,255,255&fit=bounds
https://www.richersounds.com/denon-avrx2400-blk.html

If you have a Richer Sounds nearby you could pop in and give it a spin taking your favourite CDs :)

[Michael loves music]

I have 2 Denon 350se amps both with tannoy mercury V1 speakers in lounge and bedroom sounds very good indeed

[Jac Hawk]

EBAY is your friend, take some advice from previous posts, put together a wish list, then take a look on ebay and see if you can pick up a bargain

[sumday]

EBAY is most certainly NOT your friend.
Compare Buy It Now prices to current bids to see the ripoff nature of most sellers on even the most mediocre of kit.

IMHO the real bargains are to be found on Facebook Market....

[nunogrl]

Hello all!

I went to a store again, this time the superfi at Camden Town, London https://www.superfi.co.uk/ .
I confess that once again I got more frustration for the people pushing to make the buy instead of clarifying me.

I explained what I wanted to achieve and about the speakers I got in second hand (which I had no idea if they were working or not).
The clerk tried to push me to buy some media player (800£) and on the amplifier he tried to convince me to get one Rotel brand (700+ £) saying that this would be my best choice.

I found this really tiring, as I never heard about the brand and he wasn't providing any useful information about the brand.

Eventually I asked if he had the Denon 720AE in stock which he did.
Was a model that was used at the store on the expositor, it has some scratches on the side and the remote.
I took it anyway with a discount of 8£ (I've paid 170£ instead of 178 £ :scratch: ) I only got it because I was really frustrated about this, I could get this one pristine for 178£ at Amazon, but would have to wait a few more days, so I would only be able to mount the system on the next weekend.
After packing the amplifier, they start showing me some cables for my second hand and maybe faulty speakers.
They presented me 2 kinds of cables, one for 3£/ meter and another per 10£/meter. They then propose me to get some gold plated bananas 5£/each and for last they asked me if I wanted to buy a new pair of speakers..
I bought a 3 meter gold plated stereo 25mm to RCA for 22 £ (QED brand) - not sure if it was a good investment...

Total: 170 + 22.95 = 192.95 £

I don't know what to expect from this, but this is the kind of experience make me run away from this stores. I feel I get more help reading from amazon reviews than on this stores.
I don't feel clarified at all (and that's the main point why I decided to spend some time on this forum).

I came home, put some batteries on the well used remote and connected the speakers. Now I watch the whole set and everything is second hand :rolleyes:
I connected the amp to a bluetooth receiver and played some music from my laptop and the speakers sound great!
Then I found some FLAC sample files online and put them to play through bluetooth again, and at this point the sound really impressed me!


I appreciate all your help on this! I definitely going to keep you posted on my next aventures on my set, for now I leave you a picture:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1876/30854921898_6a91a3ecfa_b.jpg

Soon I'll post a new topic on where to place my speakes so I can get the immersive sound I'm looking for :)

Thank you!!!

[walpurgis]

Well you're off to a start. Stick with it and keep asking us questions.

Your speakers are too close together by the way and probably not best on the same shelf as the rest of the equipment.

[nunogrl]

Well you're off to a start. Stick with it and keep asking us questions.

Your speakers are too close together by the way and probably not best on the same shelf as the rest of the equipment.

Thank you!

The cable is too short so I don't have other option for now. For the first test - test the speakers and the whole set - was good enough :)
I'm starting a new topic soon :)