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Gazjam
03-09-2018, 18:43
Need a short but good quality HDMI for i2s duties between the Oppo and my Dac.
Took a punt on one of these from Amazon for 15 quid.
Using the one that came with the Oppo but its 6 foot long and not ideal for i2s, this ones 50cm and "Triple shielded" (apparently)
18GBS 4K Premium certified and all good stuff, so see how it turns out.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0722X5Q3W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thinking to DIY one as well, chuck in a bunch of silver wire in Teflon as short as possible, see what happens.
Could be a good wee cable project but will try this one too.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/417XHV0Ne7L.jpg

Jac Hawk
03-09-2018, 18:51
If you're needing good quality HDMI cables of any length in the future drop me a line and i'll get you the Kramer cables we use at work, they are bloody good and i use them on my whole AV setup

Gazjam
03-09-2018, 21:42
Thanks Mike,

Looking for a cable 0.3 or 0.5m in length?
Trying to keep 'em as short as possible for i2s.

Found another interesting cable, American forums rate them highly and have been compared to Wireworlds, a bit different from the norm too...silver plated OFC and connectors look good.
https://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-fhseybv/products/668/images/1221/LIGHTINGV2HDMI-c__74683.1411506942.470.530.png?c=2
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apollo-AV-Lightning-v2-2-0M-HDMI-5-Silver-plated-OFC-v1-4-High-Speed-w-Ethernet-/360866831225
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apollo-AV-Lightning-v2-2-0M-HDMI-5-Silver-plated-OFC-v1-4-High-Speed-w-Ethernet-/360866831225)Coming from the US, so will take a while.

Less than 20 quid for a punt, see how it compares to the Amazon one above.

Jac Hawk
03-09-2018, 21:59
these are the cables i use https://www.kramerav.com/Product/C-HM/HM/PRO#Tab_Specificationhttps://www.kramerav.com/Product/C-HM/HM/PRO#Tab_Specification

Gazjam
03-09-2018, 22:07
Look solid well specced cables, theres a 3 foot length I think?

Gazjam
04-09-2018, 08:00
Ordered a Bluejeans one too for comparison, a different construction method from the norm and gets highly recommended over on PS Audio forums for i2s hookup.

And very cheap!
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm

Run with these 3 as well as my current Oppo supplied 6 footer for a while see which one sounds best, assuming theres much difference.
This “best of the rest” will be compared to a Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 (on sale or return from a Dealer), I’ll make a call and call it done.
If the hypes worth it in my system (not cheap for 30cm of wire) it’ll be a case of fit ‘n forget, money well spent.

But not neccessarily!
:thumbsup:

Primalsea
04-09-2018, 08:54
I wonder if it’s worth having a custom cable made with cable having just the required number of conductors for I2S rather than a HDMI signal?

Might be possible to optimise the cable better.

Marco
04-09-2018, 09:12
What happened to the Monoprice ones, Gaz? For me, they're superb, and that's what I'd use now as a matter of course in all my HDMI applications.

Marco.

Stratmangler
04-09-2018, 09:44
What happened to the Monoprice ones, Gaz? For me, they're superb, and that's what I'd use now as a matter of course in all my HDMI applications.

Marco.

You're using HDMI leads for their intended purpose.
In this instance the HDMI connector is being used in a non standard application.

Gazjam
04-09-2018, 10:02
What happened to the Monoprice ones, Gaz? For me, they're superb, and that's what I'd use now as a matter of course in all my HDMI applications.

Marco.

The Monoprice ones are great for video Marco, still use them and stand by them.
They don't work for audio i2s though, very possibly down to the Redmere chip at one end.
Tried them hoping maybe that would actually better a plain cable but nope, didn't even pass signal.

Interesting thing came up, the Audio AV flat ones I linked to above that were being compared to the Wireworld...someone was interested enough to cut one open and compare.
this cables suddenly got a lot more interesting...
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9817583.jpg
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9817582_thumb.jpg

Individually shielded signal connections, silver plated copper, and the power lines are well seperated from the signal runs.
Just as wireworld do with theirs.
Was going to DIY a cable, but if you can get designs like this and the Bluejeans that pay attention to cable geometry in this way, why bother.

Be choosing with my ears of course, but at these prices you can try out a few different designs.

Gazjam
04-09-2018, 10:06
What happened to the Monoprice ones, Gaz? For me, they're superb, and that's what I'd use now as a matter of course in all my HDMI applications.

Marco.

The Monoprice ones are great for video Marco, still use them and stand by them.
They don't work for audio i2s though, very possibly down to the Redmere chip at one end.
Tried them hoping maybe that would actually better a plain cable but nope, didn't even pass signal.

Interesting thing came up, the Audio AV flat ones I linked to above that were being compared to the Wireworld...a guy in San Fransisco was interested enough to cut one open and compare.
this cables suddenly got a lot more interesting...
Form the Wireworld website:
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9821577_thumb.jpg
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9817582.jpg
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9817583.jpg

Bit of a find maybe?

Individually double shielded signal connections, silver plated copper, and the power lines are well seperated from the signal runs.
Just as wireworld do with theirs.
Was going to DIY a cable, but if you can get designs like this and the Bluejeans that are low cost/high value and pay attention to cable geometry in this way, why bother.
Be choosing with my ears of course, but at these prices you can try out a few different designs.

Promise I'll make an effort to get out more, just not yet. :)

Marco
04-09-2018, 10:27
The Monoprice ones are great for video Marco, still use them and stand by them.
They don't work for audio i2s though, very possibly down to the Redmere chip at one end.
Tried them hoping maybe that would actually better a plain cable but nope, didn't even pass signal.


Ah, gotcha - but of a bummer, then. I only really need HDMIs for video, so the Monoprices are fine. The Audio AV ones look interesting, so yes, they could be another good find. I like how you judiciously research these things and uncover some potential 'giant killers', so keep up the good work!:cool:

Marco.

Gazjam
04-09-2018, 10:43
After years of side-grading and swapping like for like, just putting final things in place.
Nowadays I'm do it once and do it right kinda guy Marco, can't be faffed box-swapping anymore.
Other things to do!

A bit of research at the start keeps my audiophilia nervosa at bay :), happily good kit worth keeping doesn't need to be expensive.
It's good when you find a bargain too.

Prefer to forget the kit nowadays and enjoy the tunes/movies.

Marco
04-09-2018, 11:06
I completely agree mate, and indeed that's been my approach/attitude to this whole hobby now, for the last few years.

Quite simply, there has to be an 'end goal' to all the researching, buying, experimenting and tweaking, lest the hobby makes YOU its victim, by taking over your life in the *wrong* way, ultimately to the detriment of your enjoyment.

I think you know where I'm coming from.... So ultimately, it has to be about the MUSIC and/or the MOVIES, and your enjoyment of such, than the boxes and cables necessary, and process involved in getting there.

Unfortunately, among audiophiles (and, let's call it, 'filmophiles') there are far too many obsessive/compulsive types, who often lose sight of that end goal! And forums are full of such 'victims';)

Marco.

Gazjam
04-09-2018, 12:39
I wonder if it’s worth having a custom cable made with cable having just the required number of conductors for I2S rather than a HDMI signal?

Might be possible to optimise the cable better.

Thought crossed my mind Paul, can choose what cables and exact length you use too.

Gazjam
04-09-2018, 12:46
I completely agree mate, and indeed that's been my approach/attitude now to the whole hobby, for the last few years.

Quite simply, there has to be an 'end goal' to all the researching, buying, experimenting and tweaking, lest the hobby makes YOU its victim, by taking over your life in the *wrong* way, ultimately to the detriment of your enjoyment.

I think you know where I'm coming from.... So ultimately, it has to be about the MUSIC and/or the MOVIES, and your enjoyment of such, than the boxes and cables necessary, and process involved in getting there.

Unfortunately, among audiophiles (and, let's call it, 'filmophiles') there are far too many obsessive/compulsive types, who often lose sight of that end goal! And forums are full of such 'victims';)

Marco.

Lots of hobbys like that unfortunately, but hey...each to their own I guess.

Marco
04-09-2018, 13:06
Yup, but the end goal *has* to be about enjoying yourself, and if after years of 'box-swapping', etc, the very opposite is the case, and you're also a damn sight poorer for it, then you have to step back and take a look at what you're doing;)

However, I sense that you've already reached that realisation, which is why you're doing what you're doing now:)

Marco.

Gazjam
04-09-2018, 13:18
Yup,
a long long time ago mate. :)

Marco
04-09-2018, 13:53
Cool... You need to keep spreading the word!;)

Marco.

Gazjam
06-09-2018, 21:18
Couple of HDMI's I'd ordered came in today, the Amazon one and the other from BlueJeans.
Still waiting on the flat one that looks like a wireworld to come, could be a while.

Anyway,
The Amazon one was good, but the Bluejeans cable was far better.
Think highly of Bluejeans cables, sensible engineering no foo at sensible prices. Their BNC cable was very very good.
Noticable differences between different HDMI cables when used for i2s?
1 more to try then compare the best of the 3 with a spendy Wireworld one, see if its worth the outlay - then Im done.

0.3m length JUST long enough to connect two units, which is ideally how you want it.
https://i.imgur.com/Hzyigpw.jpg[/IMG]

Gazjam
15-09-2018, 09:53
Picked up the American "Wireworld copy" HDMI cable and plumbed it in.
https://i.imgur.com/7JrPkOY.jpg
The Bluejeans was good, this is better, by quite a bit.

Remembering that the cable is used for music only over i2s:
Soundstage had opened right up in comparison, instruments had a better sense of scale sounding dynamically more "real", stopping and starting more realistically, the feel of plucked guitar strings, piano keys being hit...kind of thing.
A bit bass light compared to the Bluejeans initially, but its starting to fill in and open up even more now with some hours on it.

Battle of the cheaper cables won, will live with it for a while then compare to the pukka Wireworld cable.
Not cheap...but see if I can borrow one from a dealer somewhere to compare.

Will need to be night and day better though, as this cable gets a big part of the way there, big step up from the Bluejeans.

Happy Chappie. :)

Gazjam
20-06-2019, 17:20
Have some HDMI 2.1 optical 48Gb/s HDMI cables coming from Japanshire, “8K ready” apparently...

Not caught up in the technology rat race naming thing...if it’s better it’s better.
See what happens.

Interesting enough I thought to take a punt in that it’s a completely different wiring topology?
Uses glass optical for signal transfer, copper for power.
All the signs are good and it should be at least as good as what I have, who knows.
Comparing for video against the active Remere ones I like, and for i2s audio against the “Wireworld beater” (and it did indeed beat a very spendy Wireworld cable) I use between my Oppo and i2s dac.

Gazjam
21-06-2019, 13:14
Info on the cable and Reviews here: (4.9/5 from 399 ratings)
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32952707471.html

ok, what did I think of it?
As suspected, like the Monoprice Redmere ones I currently have for video, it didn’t function as an i2s audio cable, so sticking with what I have for that.
Took a punt on a 1m one to try, came from Japan and took about ten days to get here.

Thin flexible rubber coated cable, (think Van Damme pro patch cable)
Solid construction on metal bodied, gold plated plugs...construction A+
I use an Nvidia Shield android box to stream Netflix, YouTube and the like to the HDMI input of my Oppo 203, Monoprice Redmere cable to the TV for video, 0.5m i2s cable to the Directstream dac for audio.
The Nvidia box passes whatever it’s fed from T’internet untouched to the Oppo’s HDMI input and basically acts as a streaming add-on to it.
A duff HDMI cable at this point would limit what happens later in the chain, so there’s a need for the best quality HDMI cable to pass video and audio to the Oppo.

Well, out with the old and in with the new as they say.

The Monoprice Redmere was the best one I’d tried up till this one, and it’s noticeably bettered in both video and audio quality by the optical HDMI one I’ve just plumbed in.
Biggest takeaway is on 4K Dolby Vision broadcasts, the HDR is more pronounced and motion seems smoother and more natural.
This is real high bandwidth stuff and I wonder if the cable is just letting the kit do its thing that little bit better?
Similar trickle down improvements on 1080p Blu-ray and even YouTube.
A bit of a find this one, though not as much as a billy-bargain as the Redmere one.

Be interesting to see what another one between the Oppo and the OLED panel does for overall picture, will be pulling the trigger on a 2m one for that.

Best I’ve tried yet, and feel I’m seeing more of what my AV setup is capable of.
Very noticeable improvement over the Redmere ones, even with YouTube never mind Netflix or Amazon @ 4K.
Highly recommended.

brian2957
21-06-2019, 16:13
Well..if you've improved what you had the last time I was over :eek: I need to see ( and hear ) this :)

Gazjam
21-06-2019, 17:07
Noticable step up mate, wait till I get a 2nd one for the telly and I'll give you a shout.

brian2957
21-06-2019, 17:17
OK bud , haven't been up for a while :)

Gazjam
21-06-2019, 17:36
Miss you ya old biddy :)

brian2957
21-06-2019, 19:54
You bein cheeky :donk:

struth
21-06-2019, 21:38
You tell the whippersnapper

Gazjam
22-06-2019, 08:03
:lol:

Go try to say something nice about someone....sheesh. :D

struth
22-06-2019, 08:08
we luvzya really;)

brian2957
22-06-2019, 12:28
Miss you ya old biddy :)

Old biddy: https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/biddy :ner: :lol:

Gazjam
22-06-2019, 12:45
Ha!

Not QUITE how it was meant to come across.... :)

brian2957
22-06-2019, 12:51
I know :eyebrows:

Gazjam
06-07-2019, 14:40
Got the second of the HDMI 2.1 optical cables in the post today, connecting it between the Oppo and the Sony OLED.
The Nvidia shield tv box (Youtube, Netflix etc) is fed to the Oppo’s HDMI input, so one of the cables from Shield to Oppo, and another from Oppo to telly.
So a complete run of these cables.

Replaced a Monoprice Redmere cable and the improvement, again, is pretty astonishing.
Seeing more of the improvements in Netflix and YouTube with the first of these cables I fitted.
4K is really something to be seen, can’t wait to plumb through the 4K collection this weekend.

not sure how screenshot’s will translate, but I’ll give it a go.

Some stills
https://i.imgur.com/OZCDlDq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DeG84Pq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PNHMymf.jpg

struth
06-07-2019, 15:00
look stunning gary:wow:

brian2957
06-07-2019, 16:34
Well the picture was stunning last week , if it's now better again ...

Gazjam
06-07-2019, 16:42
Well the picture was stunning last week , if it's now better again ...

Noticeably better Brian,
these hdmi cables are terrific.

Noticed it right away, which is usually a good sign.
Last one got better with some hours on it, see how this one goes.

brian2957
06-07-2019, 17:29
Have to get one of them there new fangled 4K TVs :)

I was looking at the 8K TVs in Sterling Mills the other day . Stunning picture , very little content in this format being transmitted .

Dr Winston O Boogie
03-08-2019, 14:45
I don't want to be controversial here HDMI cables are all the same as long as they have the capability of passing the correct signal for your set up be it 4K or 1080p or even 8K, the picture quality will be exactly the same.

Gazjam
06-08-2019, 16:01
No...
In reality that’s not the case...sorry.
Its a common belief I guess, it’s just digital, right?
I’m saying this as I’ve compared many different cables personally.

Don’t believe everything you read online, (including me!) try a bunch for yourself if your curious. :)

Dr Winston O Boogie
07-08-2019, 09:41
No...
In reality that’s not the case...sorry.
Its a common belief I guess, it’s just digital, right?
I’m saying this as I’ve compared many different cables personally.

Don’t believe everything you read online, (including me!) try a bunch for yourself if your curious. :)

Oh I have and so have the worlds leading experts I know in the field of AV, it is just 0's and 1's, you can't have 0ish and 1ish.

mikmas
07-08-2019, 11:04
Oh I have and so have the worlds leading experts I know in the field of AV, it is just 0's and 1's, you can't have 0ish and 1ish.

Actually - you can :)

Put very simply - the 0's and 1's are communicated by a system of difference, For the difference to register a threshold has to be met.
If this threshold isn't met (an error) there is ambiguity and the processor will correct the error by deciding one way or another (either a 0 or a 1)
The error events can be negligible (and therefore unnoticeable) or frequent and therefore significant ... and noticeable (e.g. artefacts and distortion)

Anything which can improve an error-free communication of the data stream will thus have a positive impact at the decoding end of the process.

Gazjam
07-08-2019, 12:04
Oh I have and so have the worlds leading experts I know in the field of AV, it is just 0's and 1's, you can't have 0ish and 1ish.

Chill out man, I'm entitled to think what I think, as are you.

Dr Winston O Boogie
07-08-2019, 12:14
Chill out man, I'm entitled to think what I think, as are you.

I am chilled and if you want to think that that's OK but facts say otherwise.

Dr Winston O Boogie
07-08-2019, 12:16
Actually - you can :)

Put very simply - the 0's and 1's are communicated by a system of difference, For the difference to register a threshold has to be met.
If this threshold isn't met (an error) there is ambiguity and the processor will correct the error by deciding one way or another (either a 0 or a 1)
The error events can be negligible (and therefore unnoticeable) or frequent and therefore significant ... and noticeable (e.g. artefacts and distortion)

Anything which can improve an error-free communication of the data stream will thus have a positive impact at the decoding end of the process.

Actually with HDMI you can't. You either have a picture or you don't :)

Gazjam
07-08-2019, 16:21
I am chilled and if you want to think that that's OK but facts say otherwise.

https://www.theinquirer.net/w-images/3aa984b6-e6e7-4edc-a791-0fe8deb11be0/0/facepalm3-540x334.png?1454319686

Do you know how HDMI cables work Barry?

is...say...an HDMI 1.0 spec cable the same as a 2.1 cable?
Whats the difference you think, and why the need for it?

Not being sarcastic Mate just wondering what your own level of knowledge is, not one of the world leading experts that you know.
Maybe you can get one of them to join the discussion, share some technical knowledge?

You’ve said you thought the 4K Blu-ray of 2001 was stunning, what kit did you see it on?
A Poundland HDMI cable or...?

Dr Winston O Boogie
07-08-2019, 19:10
https://www.theinquirer.net/w-images/3aa984b6-e6e7-4edc-a791-0fe8deb11be0/0/facepalm3-540x334.png?1454319686

Do you know how HDMI cables work Barry?

is...say...an HDMI 1.0 spec cable the same as a 2.1 cable?
Whats the difference you think, and why the need for it?

Not being sarcastic Mate just wondering what your own level of knowledge is, not one of the world leading experts that you know.
Maybe you can get one of them to join the discussion, share some technical knowledge?

You’ve said you thought the 4K Blu-ray of 2001 was stunning, what kit did you see it on?
A Poundland HDMI cable or...?

I watched 2001 on a calibrated (pro) LG OLED using Amazon Basics HDMI. The difference between cables will be their ability to pass the information for the standard required, not the ability to show better picture quality.

If you watch the shootouts in the US involving, David Mackenzie, Stacey Spears, Robert Zohn, Kevin Miller, Joel Silver, D Nice (myself to a lesser extent), Sony, LG, Panasonic, Samsung and many others you will come to realise that what we say is true

Macca
07-08-2019, 19:46
Barry, if you want to discuss the topic of whether or not there is a difference between the same standard of HDMI cable start a separate thread for it.

This is a subjectivist forum so threads like this one are going to start with an assumption that there are differences, and this thread is about that, not whether there is any difference.

Gazjam
07-08-2019, 19:56
I've done many shootouts of my own...thanks, with my own AV equipment in my own environment.
Prefer to try things for myself in my own system and base my view on the evidence of my own eyes ‘n ears; whatever the results may be.

Hence the thread I started here.

Dr Winston O Boogie
08-08-2019, 08:17
Barry, if you want to discuss the topic of whether or not there is a difference between the same standard of HDMI cable start a separate thread for it.

This is a subjectivist forum so threads like this one are going to start with an assumption that there are differences, and this thread is about that, not whether there is any difference.

Sorry to me that makes no sense? But OK.

Barry
08-08-2019, 20:36
I've done many shootouts of my own...thanks, with my own AV equipment in my own environment.
Prefer to try things for myself in my own system and base my view on the evidence of my own eyes ‘n ears; whatever the results may be.

Hence the thread I started here.

And that is the only way to do it. I've tried various 'calibration sites', and in the end I've always preferred what my eyes tell me to what the calibration sites say the optimum setting should be.

Dr Winston O Boogie
08-08-2019, 20:58
And that is the only way to do it. I've tried various 'calibration sites', and in the end I've always preferred what my eyes tell me to what the calibration sites say the optimum setting should be.

and not what the director intended remembering we are paying for all these controls on TV's etc to get it right then we go and put on what we think is right, instead of adhering to the industry standards that help us achieve the correct PQ?

Barry
08-08-2019, 21:21
and not what the director intended remembering we are paying for all these controls on TV's etc to get it right then we go and put on what we think is right, instead of adhering to the industry standards that help us achieve the correct PQ?

And who is to say what these "industry standards" are when it comes to "correct PQ"? As far as I'm concerned; blacks should be black, not dark gey or green; whites should be white, free from any tint, and flesh tones should be as realistic as possible. Most TV have the RGB gamut far too saturated - it may look 'impressive' but it's un-natural; in much the same way as Kodak Ektachrome is un-natural compared to Kodachrome.

struth
08-08-2019, 22:55
Been testing a Panasonic uhd player. Even on HD TV playing just dvd or blueray it's a superior pic. Not anywhere near build quality of the oppo tho

Dr Winston O Boogie
09-08-2019, 07:27
And who is to say what these "industry standards" are when it comes to "correct PQ"? As far as I'm concerned; blacks should be black, not dark gey or green; whites should be white, free from any tint, and flesh tones should be as realistic as possible. Most TV have the RGB gamut far too saturated - it may look 'impressive' but it's un-natural; in much the same way as Kodak Ektachrome is un-natural compared to Kodachrome.

Because industry standard is what they all adhere to Rec 709 or 2002. You said the RGB gamut is to saturated that is why we calibrate TV's, to get the correct colour gamut. Whites are never white, and yes blacks should be black.

These videos will help with the basics, after that professional calibration is the way to go:

https://www.avforums.com/PicturePerfect/

Gazjam
09-08-2019, 18:21
Been testing a Panasonic uhd player. Even on HD TV playing just dvd or blueray it's a superior pic. Not anywhere near build quality of the oppo tho

Interesting!
Things move on, as they should I guess.

struth
09-08-2019, 18:34
Interesting!
Things move on, as they should I guess.Yup, it's quite a nice player for money. I wouldn't swap it and money and give up the oppo tho.