Ears, amps and Speakers.

[meBob]

Hello All,

I'm suffering a touch of tinnitus lately and with my setup KEF 103.2s, Sony 770ES amp and a Caiman SEG dac there's a decent amount of detailed highs. The amp plays at a fairly fast pace and when combined with the KEFs which are for the most part neutral (to my ears), but can go high, sometimes sound a bit fatiguing. I'm just not sure about the tonal balance of the SEG?

I really like these KEFs and don't want to blame them too much, It's probably a synergy thing, but speakers having the greatest effect on a system, I'm thinking about trying another pair.

Has anyone heard Monitor Audio R852 speakers, there's a pair I can have if I want them? I'm particularly interested in the mids and treble.

Or Celestion Ditton 15's?

The KEFs are awesome performers, but I'm am willing to make a compromise.

Cheers,
Rob

[bumpy]

Ids there an established link between listening to high frequencies (at normal levels) and the exacerbation of tinnitus?

[Pieoftheday]

Hello All,

I'm suffering a touch of tinnitus lately and with my setup KEF 103.2s, Sony 770ES amp and a Caiman SEG dac there's a decent amount of detailed highs. The amp plays at a fairly fast pace and when combined with the KEFs which are for the most part neutral (to my ears), but can go high, sometimes sound a bit fatiguing. I'm just not sure about the tonal balance of the SEG?

I really like these KEFs and don't want to blame them too much, It's probably a synergy thing, but speakers having the greatest effect on a system, I'm thinking about trying another pair.

Has anyone heard Monitor Audio R852 speakers, there's a pair I can have if I want them? I'm particularly interested in the mids and treble.

Or Celestion Ditton 15's?

The KEFs are awesome performers, but I'm am willing to make a compromise.

Cheers,
Rob

Is your tinnitus temporary or permanent Rob.?according to my ENT consultant ,tinnitus is basically the brain trying to fill in the gaps of hearing loss.it might be worth having a hearing test.i have some hearing loss in my right ear,high frequency, and now use an nhs hearing aid just for tv and music and found it helps reduce the tinnitus. It's not perfect but has definitely increased my listening pleasure. So, I probably wouldn't go changing anything until I'd had a hearing test, Jim

[hifinutt]

Ids there an established link between listening to high frequencies (at normal levels) and the exacerbation of tinnitus?

i did know of a chap who had to sell his harbeths becuase of Hyperacusis . there are many other speakers you could try such as sonus faber , spendor perhaps .

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hyperacusis/

[meBob]

Hello Bumpy,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm clueless if there is any research on the subject out there, I'm just going by what I feel at the end of a listening session. I wouldn't want to trawl through arcane medical documents to eventually find the answer that I suspect I already know (see my answer to Pieoftheday).

[meBob]

Hello Pieoftheday,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes It's permanent (sadly), I've been to the doctor and tested and as anyone who has gone to a doctor with this complaint will know from experience, it is that all they can really offer is professional concern and commiserations.

Sometimes it flares up and the recedes, it's flared up for quite a while now.

Bumpy has rasised the question above, he might be right?

It might not be tinnitus at all, it may well just be my system. Although I feel I have not a lot to lose by trying new speakers.

[meBob]

Hello hifinut,

Thanks for the reply.

It looks like a whole new tin of worms and just like tinnitus there's no cure.

[Macca]

A cheaper option would be a graphic equaliser, that would let you adjust frequency bands until you find a balance that does not aggravate your condition. I know it isn't exactly purist but you can get high quality units from Klark Teknik if you are especially picky about such things. Although I'd start by buying a cheapo used one to experiment with first.

[hifinutt]

always good to try other speakers , i just sold a beautiful pair of speakers that made my feet tap but i noticed they made my ears ache after a while . can`t quite explain it . sadly they had to go , it might have been the lively room that exacerbated it . they did not do it in my lounge full of sofa`s and curtains etc

now got a pair of speakers that you can play as loud as you like for hours with out any problem . get round to some friends and see what theirs sounds like and what you can cope with

[Pieoftheday]

Hello Pieoftheday,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes It's permanent (sadly), I've been to the doctor and tested and as anyone who has gone to a doctor with this complaint will know from experience, it is that all they can really offer is professional concern and commiserations.

Sometimes it flares up and the recedes, it's flared up for quite a while now.

Bumpy has rasised the question above, he might be right?

It might not be tinnitus at all, it may well just be my system. Although I feel I have not a lot to lose by trying new speakers.

The British Tinnitus Association may be of help,Jim

[meBob]

Hello Macca,

Thanks for your reply.

I actually looked at a few graphic EQs on ebay a few weeks ago, one of them a technics for £130, but just felt strangely like I was cheating and it was retrograde step.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SH-GE70-Stereo-Graphic-Equalizer/223122609912?epid=1137637456&hash=item33f324d6f8:g:QosAAOSwV01bhuFx

I've never actually used one decent/proper one, I've only used the ones inbuilt into low end systems and they weren't too impressive.

Why did the they die out?

[meBob]

Hello Hifinut,

That's why I'm looking a speakers first, there's a lot of cheap vintage speakers on ebay.

[meBob]

Hello Pieoftheday,

The hearing aid you mentioned might be a possibility, but everything else just seems like professional soothing the brow (with nothing else to offer) just like my doctor.

[Pieoftheday]

Hello Pieoftheday,

The hearing aid you mentioned might be a possibility, but everything else just seems like professional soothing the brow (with nothing else to offer) just like my doctor.

It maybe, plus it's free:) it's a shame that a consultant could not be of more help,the chap I saw was very helpful , granted there isn't a cure as such but for some it can be managed quite well, hope you can find better help, Jim

[Macca]

Hello Macca,

Thanks for your reply.

I actually looked at a few graphic EQs on ebay a few weeks ago, one of them a technics for £130, but just felt strangely like I was cheating and it was retrograde step.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SH-GE70-Stereo-Graphic-Equalizer/223122609912?epid=1137637456&hash=item33f324d6f8:g:QosAAOSwV01bhuFx

I've never actually used one decent/proper one, I've only used the ones inbuilt into low end systems and they weren't too impressive.

Why did the they die out?

Flat Earth philosophy in the 1980s dictated that you wanted as simple a signal path as possible (which obviously does make sense) so equalisers, tone controls and the loudness button all faded away. I agree using one is sub-optimal, except if the result was that you could listen to your system without any problems. I'd try it with the cheap one, and if it works splash out on a quality studio-grade effort from KT.

[walpurgis]

Has anyone heard Monitor Audio R852 speakers, there's a pair I can have if I want them? I'm particularly interested in the mids and treble.

The R852 is a really nice sounding compact speaker and in a totally different league to the Ditton 15. They have a clean, nicely detailed top end and good transparency. I'd say grab them, they have a bit of a following.

Oh. And I dislike graphic equalisers in Hi-Fi systems. They're often employed as a cheap fix for a poorly balanced system, but they tend to flatten the sound.

[mikmas]

I have had tinnitus and partial deafness in my right ear since my early 30s following an ear infection (swimming in polluted sea)

Initially it was quite severe (and really annoying) and at the time I made extensive use of an equaliser to give some balance to my music listening - equalisers are indeed a tad shit under normal circumstances but it was a damn sight better than the alternative.

In the meantime I managed to get an NHS hearing aid (took me nearly 3 years !!!) and this sorted out the problem without the intervention of an equaliser. Interesting that they used an equaliser of sorts to set the hearing aid up for the correct frequency boost :lol:

The tinnitus is still there but has faded though time - or maybe my brain has adjusted to cope - never really bothers me now

[Pigmy Pony]

I used to have some Monitor Audio R352, which would probably be a lot further down the range. They were so sweet and unfatiguing at the top end I could listen to them for hours. I wish I'd kept them. They were the non-MD versions (I believe the metal dome ones were brighter). So I imagine the 852's will be tonally similar, but better. Monitor Audio always made a real effort with finish quality too.

I suffer from a constant high-pitched whistle in my ears, which most of the time I barely notice, but when playing music at high-ish volumes, the whistling increases as though to compete. I am beginning to think much of the brightness of my setup is due to this, as when hearing some shockingly high-cost systems, they too sound bright to me when played loud.

My advice would be to 'go for it' with the MA's, providing you can get them for a good price. Then if you decide they are not for you, advertise them on here and I'll buy them. :D (I'm thinking of upgrading speakers in my second system!) :)

[meBob]

Hello mikmas,

Thanks for your reply.

These fateful events that can affect our lives, yours a healthy swim in the sea and mine a visit to the NHS to have my blocked ear syringed has given us these problems.

Yourself and pieoftheday seen to have had positive results from these hearing aids. I might further investigate, but the thought of it is making me feel old and also I'm waiting to see if it receeds, but having had hit for 5 months now I'm feeling slilghty pessimistic.

3 year wait? It's probably 5 years now!

A graphic EQ seems like the next and correct logical step, I don't mind spending around £100 or so on one provinding it can be moved on later.

[meBob]

Hello walpurgis & pigmy pony,

Thanks for your replies.

Have either of you ever heard my Kefs or similar Kefs of the period?

They (852s) actually sound like they might be similar to my KEFs, but I would like more civilised mids/highs. If there's detail, the KEFs will try to find it.


Walpurgis:

An EQ is beginning to feel like a necessary evil.

Pigmy Pony:

"I suffer from a constant high-pitched whistle in my ears, which most of the time I barely notice".
That sounds very similar to mine, most of the time when busy I don't notice it, but in quiet situations I do and after a period of HiFi listening.

[Pieoftheday]

Hello mikmas,

Thanks for your reply.

These fateful events that can affect our lives, yours a healthy swim in the sea and mine a visit to the NHS to have my blocked ear syringed has given us these problems.

Yourself and pieoftheday seen to have had positive results from these hearing aids. I might further investigate, but the thought of it is making me feel old and also I'm waiting to see if it receeds, but having had hit for 5 months now I'm feeling slilghty pessimistic.

3 year wait? It's probably 5 years now!

A graphic EQ seems like the next and correct logical step, I don't mind spending around £100 or so on one provinding it can be moved on later.

Rob, I waited just 3 weeks, got a referral from my gp to Specsavers, had the test and got the hearing aid there and then:cool:

[Parcelmonkey]

Hello walpurgis & pigmy pony,

Thanks for your replies.

Have either of you ever heard my Kefs or similar Kefs of the period?

They (852s) actually sound like they might be similar to my KEFs, but I would like more civilised mids/highs. If there's detail, the KEFs will try to find it.


Walpurgis:

An EQ is beginning to feel like a necessary evil.

Pigmy Pony:

"I suffer from a constant high-pitched whistle in my ears, which most of the time I barely notice".
That sounds very similar to mine, most of the time when busy I don't notice it, but in quiet situations I do and after a period of HiFi listening.


It is really annoying having Tinnitus. I've suffered with the constant ringing for over 5 years now but in that time it has subsided quite significantly as you become accustomed to it. A little trick I use if it becomes acute, a slight punch on the side of your chin will change the frequency. Weird but it works for me!

I also listen to my music on occasions for up to 14 hours. Not really loud, around 75db without it affecting the Tinnitus, I found a speaker change helped enormously.

Good luck in your quest & yes distraction really can help take your mind of the constant ringing. Just remember not to punch yourself too hard! :lol:

[struth]

Had tinnitus for 30 years. It was an industrial accident. Took a long time to get used to it but you do. I usually leave tv on when I go to sleep to mask it. Just on quiet but it works. It's inclined to get worse if listening too much

[Lawrence001]

Not tinnitus for me thanks goodness, but I have a dull feeling like a blockage in my right ear, a volume level imbalance in the highs (they seem to come mainly from the left side) and a crackle from certain notes sung by sopranos. First started on landing after a return flight to Shanghai. Went to a specialist who did sound frequency and pressure tests and said there was no significant measurable problem. I had intense pain in that ear for a while during a flight yesterday, not had that before.

Regarding speakers, I found the 952/MD to be very smooth sounding in the highs so I would take a punt even if it's the metal dome version. The 852 might also be a Robin Marshall design like the 952.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

[Pigmy Pony]

Yes I think Robin Marshall went on to develop the Epos ES14, very highly regarded in its day, and possibly another worth considering.

[Lawrence001]

Possibly consider the early copper dome Celestion SL6, I think they have quite a smooth (low?) treble output, but they're a bugger to drive so you'll need a few watts.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

There's an assumption being made that the problem lies in the high frequencies whereas my hunch is it is in the presence band so changing speakers won't make any difference.


If you are over 40 likelihood is that you can't hear over 15Khz anyway so a speaker that has strong output above that frequency won't sound any different to you than one that does not.


Added to which people often complain about 'bright' speakers but when you look at the measurements they are flat all the way to 20Khz, the same as pretty much any multi-way speaker. Perception of 'brightness' is due to bass levels being too low compared to mid and top, or distortion in the sound originating from upstream of the loudspeaker. Usually the latter.

[alphaGT]

I use equalizers all the time in live sound reenforcement. Quality equalizers don’t have to cost a fortune, and they do less damage to the sound than many believe. They are best used sparingly, just barely nudging certain ranges from flat. Equalizers were used in the making of every recording we listen to, so, they can’t be too bad? Recording studios use some very fine parametric equalizers, I’ve considered trying one on my stereo. While it may cost you a bit of air on the signal, it can correct a lot of errs. Due to room shapes and sizes, ceiling heights, coverings, wife acceptance factors, furniture and decor, it can prove impossible to solve all our placement problems. So for the same reason I use one at a venue, to overcome shortcomings of the room, it may be wise to use one at home? Perhaps a PA type EQ could be an affordable choice? A used DBX, or Ashley, can be had in your price range. Some may have RCA jacks? Most will be XLR.

I’ve had speakers that seem to shout at you! The louder it got, the shoutier it got. And I bought a pair of Vandersteen 2Cs and they didn’t get louder, they got bigger! The image grew as it got louder, most desirable quality.

Russell

[Pigmy Pony]

Could it also be the listening room, maybe higher frequencies bouncing off surfaces and clashing with each other? There are probably so many variables, that all you can do is try stuff in your room and see.

I was told by some 'expert' years ago, that the speaker that impresses immediately is the one most likely to 'grate' with extended listening, while tonally less exciting ones will probably be a more satisfying sound in the long term. Was this crap or did he have a point?

[jandl100]

A cheaper option would be a graphic equaliser, that would let you adjust frequency bands until you find a balance that does not aggravate your condition. I know it isn't exactly purist but you can get high quality units from Klark Teknik if you are especially picky about such things. Although I'd start by buying a cheapo used one to experiment with first.

+1

I currently have hearing issues due to side effects from a summer flu virus.
Blocked Eustachian tubes (and maybe other inner ear issues) mean my hearing sensitivity is down in both ears, more so in the left ear, and I hear treble distortion (tinnitus) when the sound level is above moderate.

I happened to have a Behringer DEQ2496 on my spares shelf, and that has helped enormously with a quite carefully tuned in treble cut as well as left/right balance adjustment.
(Previous experience showed that the Behringer is a nicely transparent device, especially used in pure digital mode but is still good when using the onboard ADC and DACs).

Also, try headphones - with my own current ear issues they are by far the best way to listen to music.
The last couple of days I have dug out an old (but beautiful) Rotel RX-603 receiver as a headphone driver - not only does it look great but its balance and tone controls work well to alleviate my (hopefully temporary) hearing problems.

[hifinutt]

Could it also be the listening room, maybe higher frequencies bouncing off surfaces and clashing with each other? There are probably so many variables, that all you can do is try stuff in your room and see.

I was told by some 'expert' years ago, that the speaker that impresses immediately is the one most likely to 'grate' with extended listening, while tonally less exciting ones will probably be a more satisfying sound in the long term. Was this crap or did he have a point?

a lot of truth in this

[Macca]

Could it also be the listening room, maybe higher frequencies bouncing off surfaces and clashing with each other? There are probably so many variables, that all you can do is try stuff in your room and see.

I was told by some 'expert' years ago, that the speaker that impresses immediately is the one most likely to 'grate' with extended listening, while tonally less exciting ones will probably be a more satisfying sound in the long term. Was this crap or did he have a point?

I think so, although it's a bit over-simplified. Some speakers that don't impress immediately never impress. And then you've got matching to the room and amplifiers to take into account.

[Simon_LDT]

What about a Schiit Loki for an equaliser?

https://schiit.eu.com/loki

I don't know much about equalisers myself but when I saw this announced I thought it looked quite good, especially how it can be bypassed completely by the switch on the front.

[bumpy]

A bit of background on the tinnitus in the right ear, from riding a Harley!

After the normal clinical investigation the specialist recommended having background music in every room to encourage my brain to hear 'through' the tinnitus. After a few months the tinnitus 'disappeared' only to re-appear if I really thought about it (its just come back now). Once again, a few hours now of background music and I can forget the tinnitus.

Now all this changes if I am assessing new Hi-Fi bits in my own home. Its a bit of a 'stressful' time and without consciously doing it I am asking the question "will this aggravate my tinnitus". So I am thinking again about tinnitus and sure enough back it comes.

I find I have to listen for prolonged periods sometimes days to see if the tinnitus gets worse or recedes into oblivion again. Then I make my decision on the Hi Fi kit.


Hopes this helps

[Pieoftheday]

It's a wonder any of us get to enjoy our music/HiFi what with all the buzzing whistling and wooshing going on in our lugs:)

[RMutt]

It’s a cruel irony that those of us into music, who therefore went, and still go, to loud concerts end up with tinnitus. Although, like Chris, I think mine was made worse by riding motorbikes when nobody wore earplugs.

[Pigmy Pony]

When I was listening to The Prodigy the other day at rather antisocial levels, I started getting this high pitched whine in my ears. I thought @Oh no, the tinnitus is back'. Turns out it was Mrs. Pony telling me to turn that crap down.

[Pigmy Pony]

It’s a cruel irony that those of us into music, who therefore went, and still go, to loud concerts end up with tinnitus. Although, like Chris, I think mine was made worse by riding motorbikes when nobody wore earplugs.

I've had bikes for forty years, and only used earplugs for the last ten or so. I think that horse has already bolted, and I never heard it come back.

[meBob]

Hello Pieoftheday,

3 weeks is definitely faster that 3-5 years, if a couple more months hasn't seen it diminish I'll be off to my quack demanding action me thinks.

[meBob]

Hello Pieoftheday, Parcelmonkey, RMutt, Struth, jandl100, bumpy & pigmy pony (and anyone else I may have missed!),

This is not an isolated thing I have by the look of things, there's enough of us to start our own theartofsound health issues/worries section!

[meBob]

Hello Pigmy pony & Lawerance001,

Thanks for the speaker suggestions, but I'll try the 852's first.

That's if the owner still wants to part with them.

[meBob]

Hello Macca, Pigmy pony & hifinutt,

Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony:

Could it also be the listening room, maybe higher frequencies bouncing off surfaces and clashing with each other? There are probably so many variables, that all you can do is try stuff in your room and see.

I was told by some 'expert' years ago, that the speaker that impresses immediately is the one most likely to 'grate' with extended listening, while tonally less exciting ones will probably be a more satisfying sound in the long term. Was this crap or did he have a point?

Originally posted by Macca:

I think so, although it's a bit over-simplified. Some speakers that don't impress immediately never impress. And then you've got matching to the room and amplifiers to take into account.

The room my system is in was a nightmare for reflected sounds, it has plaster painted walls and ceilling that behave like sounding boards, the floor is laminate is a laminated one also.

I have however worked hard to combat this, having made some large diy absorbtion panels for both the walls behind the speakers and facing the speakers, I've also put a rug on the floor.

These changes to the room have definitely improved SQ.

It didn't take me long to realise that these speakers had blown out of the water all that had come before.

[meBob]

Hello alphaGT, Jandl100 & Simon LDT,

Thanks for your advice concerning the graphic EQs.

[meBob]

Interestingly, I did an AB comparison between my Caiman SEG dac and the Xonar D1 sound card dac in my PC, with both of them connected to the amp at the same time. The SEG to my ears sounds more agressive in the highs than the Xonar does.

Anyone else have a SEG?

[Pigmy Pony]

I don't know if this is sinister or what, but an advert for hearing aids has appeared at the bottom of this page!

[Macca]

'Pensioners' are going 'crazy' for them, apparently.

[Macca]

The room my system is in was a nightmare for reflected sounds, it has plaster painted walls and ceilling that behave like sounding boards, the floor is laminate is a laminated one also.

I have however worked hard to combat this, having made some large diy absorbtion panels for both the walls behind the speakers and facing the speakers, I've also put a rug on the floor.

These changes to the room have definitely improved SQ.

It didn't take me long to realise that these speakers had blown out of the water all that had come before.

Yeah they are good speakers, you don't want to get rid of them anytime soon.

[Pieoftheday]

'Pensioners' are going 'crazy' for them, apparently.

Well why wouldn't they:)

[meBob]

Hello Pieoftheday,

How big/comfortable are these hearing aids?

My grandfather back in the day had one and he needed and amplifier about the size of a pack of cigarettes to power it, he kept in his shirt pocket.

[Pieoftheday]

Hello Pieoftheday,

How big/comfortable are these hearing aids?

My grandfather back in the day had one and he needed and amplifier about the size of a pack of cigarettes to power it, he kept in his shirt pocket.

Hi Rob, I have a Siemens teneo m+ via nhs/Specsavers, it fits snug behind the ear,much smaller than they used to be ,,it's useful to try various domes,that's the bit that goes in your ear, some will suit much better than others,the audioligist should know his stuff ,though I did experiment my self. It took me a while to get used to it, almost gave up,but it can take your brain a while to adjust.i only use mine for tv/music and so it still takes me 5 minutes to adjust,i should wear it all the time really.it has a volume so you can adjust to suit,it isn't perfect but definitely worth while:) Jim

[MrRadish]

Interestingly, I did an AB comparison between my Caiman SEG dac and the Xonar D1 sound card dac in my PC, with both of them connected to the amp at the same time. The SEG to my ears sounds more agressive in the highs than the Xonar does.

Anyone else have a SEG?

I have the SEG and it definitely isn't aggressive. It's one of the sweetest DACs I have. However I have both the GFU (previous version) and SEG and one of the little SMPS they came with injects some noise into the left channel (iirc). The other one doesn't. This is only noticeable on the SEG, not the GFU, and I'm not sure which one it was. I think they're the same model so it's probably just unit variation. I use a linear PSU now anyway so I've not heard it for a while.

Aggressiveness was also a feature of my system for a long time until I found the right mains filter, with a Furman LIFT filter being the first I found to tackle that particular issue. My mains has been much more friendly recently, as determined by another unfiltered system, so it's something that comes and goes. I know a lot of people are using batteries to power DACs which also works. If your soundcard is running off the ATX PSU then that may be much better filtered.

I've also installed a lot of acoustic foam in my listening room as it was very live previously. In hindsight I could have just switched the dining and living rooms around as the dining room is much better behaved, but the foam is glued to the walls and ceiling now. Until it falls off from the heat. :)

[meBob]

Hello MrRadish,

Thanks for your reply.

I've heard my SEG with a battery and I found it hard to hear any big difference from the stock psu. I also had a cheap Chinese dac before the SEG that had swappable opamps, I sold the Chinese dac and so didn't do a comparison with the SEG, but I thought the Chinese dac with one opamp in particular did sound very mild mannered.

To be honest it would be unfair to accuse the SEG of being bright without a good few other dacs to compare it to on a truly neutral system and for the most part I'm happy with its performance.

I too have done some DIY acoustic treatment and I have to say I'm happy with the results, I didn't realise how much of an effect/affect it was having until I payed attention to the room and not the kit.

Does your linear supply noticeably "relax" the sound compared to the stock psu?

[MrRadish]

Does your linear supply noticeably "relax" the sound compared to the stock psu?

A little, yes, although it wasn't earth shattering. It didn't change the nature of the DAC but the overall sound became more refined and measured.

The only other thing I can think of is if the source is lacking (poor clock quality, power supply noise, USB noise etc). Is your PC the main source, and do you use USB, optical or coax to the SEG if so? Do you have an old analogue tuner or cassette deck you can plug into the system to compare it with? That should at least help narrow the problem down to source, amp or speakers.

[meBob]

It's connected via optical so as to eliminate noise.

Sadly, I don't have any older analogue separates to test with (good suggestion though).

Although I threw out an old Technics tape deck a few years back (the stupid things I do).

[MrRadish]

I've found the optical outputs from motherboards to be quite poor, even on the fancy gaming boards I've used. Does the soundcard have a digital output you can try?

[meBob]

It's not connected via a motherboard integrated soundcard, but optically by a Asus Xonar D1 soundcard.

This is a decent sound card, It has a pass through/bypass function that passes the PCM file straight to the SEG. The Xonar is completely bypassed.