Rega Elys 2 Cartridge: Upgrade for Planar 1 TT

[Valentiaman]

OK, it's a long story, and some of it is documented in another post in this section of the forum. But, to cut the the chase, I would like some advice, please, on an upgrade stylus I've just added to a new turntable and amp set up.

I bought a Rega Planar 1 recently and a Marantz P5005 amp. I have the Marantz bi-wired to Monitor Audio Bronze B2 speakers, which are on floor stands with separators between the speakers and the stand platform. I had considered buying the Rega Performance pack, but made a slight detour from that plan. Having smashed my Dual 505, accidentally, I put the rubber mat from it on the Regar Planar 1 and checked the speed with an app on my iPhone (I'm getting 33.39RPM with the mat). Having got the mat and the belt seems to be OK, I decided to go one-up on the cartridge that comes with the Performance pack (Bias 2) and got the Rega Elys 2, today.

The issue is this: How much difference should I hear with this over the Rega (Carbon) stylus that came with the Planar one, with no other change to the set up, as shown above? I'm not sure if I'm hearing much at all, and don't know if the difference should be subtle or hit me between the ears! The Elys has only had about 1 hour's play time so far, and I've heard conflicting views on whether a cartridge needs to be "run in".

I'd welcome your views on if I wasted my money, given the limitations of my set up, and should I have stuck with the Performance Pack and lower grade cartridge.

Stephen

[Kvaal]

Take some time and search for a used Technics cartridge. You can find them on used Technics TT's from the seventies. Get a new stylus from Japan. They will do better than most modern cartridges IMHO.

[steve-z]

OK, it's a long story, and some of it is documented in another post in this section of the forum. But, to cut the the chase, I would like some advice, please, on an upgrade stylus I've just added to a new turntable and amp set up.

I bought a Rega Planar 1 recently and a Marantz P5005 amp. I have the Marantz bi-wired to Monitor Audio Bronze B2 speakers, which are on floor stands with separators between the speakers and the stand platform. I had considered buying the Rega Performance pack, but made a slight detour from that plan. Having smashed my Dual 505, accidentally, I put the rubber mat from it on the Regar Planar 1 and checked the speed with an app on my iPhone (I'm getting 33.39RPM with the mat). Having got the mat and the belt seems to be OK, I decided to go one-up on the cartridge that comes with the Performance pack (Bias 2) and got the Rega Elys 2, today.

The issue is this: How much difference should I hear with this over the Rega (Carbon) stylus that came with the Planar one, with no other change to the set up, as shown above? I'm not sure if I'm hearing much at all, and don't know if the difference should be subtle or hit me between the ears! The Elys has only had about 1 hour's play time so far, and I've heard conflicting views on whether a cartridge needs to be "run in".

I'd welcome your views on if I wasted my money, given the limitations of my set up, and should I have stuck with the Performance Pack and lower grade cartridge.

Stephen

Hi Stephen, 18 months ago I bought a 2016 Planar 3 which came bundled with the Elys 2 cartridge which I used for a couple of weeks. At the time I had a second deck an Audio Technica ATLP120 direct drive fitted with the very cheap AT95E cartridge, comparing the two the Elys seemed rather bland and lifeless imo compared to the AT95E even though the Rega is a better quality deck. Because of this I sold on the Elys and bought a Nagaoka MP110 which completely outclassed the Elys at a slightly lower price, that’s your best bet if you can run to it, if not the AT95E is great for under £30.


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[walpurgis]

Bear in mind that Rega cartridges are shallower in the body than most alternatives, so the arm may need raising to adjust for the difference.

[Valentiaman]

Thanks for the feedback, guys, it's all much appreciated.

Steve-Z, I may have an AT95E on my smashed Dual (see my other thread in this section). I'll see if I can get it to fit, but, I'm told I may need spacers to fit non-Rega carts, and I have no clue about that. I also read great things about the Nagaoka MP110 and again, the spacer thing put me off (I wouldn't even know where to uy them or how to fit them).

Kvaal, If I can't try the AT, I'm a bit loath to look for another cart right away, having just spent €150 yesterday on the Elys, but maybe down the road...

Walpurgis Was your advice about fitting the Elys, or a non-Rega cart?

I have to say I bought the Elys having read reviews, some of which claimed he difference between it and the Bias 2 was near-miraculous and as mentioned about I was wary of getting non-Rega carts due to my inexperience with "spacers".

[walpurgis]

Walpurgis Was your advice about fitting the Elys, or a non-Rega cart?

If you fit a non-Rega cartridge, you may need to raise the arm with a spacer. Fitting a spacer is not difficult.

[Valentiaman]

If you fit a non-Rega cartridge, you may need to raise the arm with a spacer. Fitting a spacer is not difficult.

Thanks again.

[hifi_dave]

With the Elys-2 you will get better, more secure tracking especially in the inner grooves plus more detail retrieved and greater refinement.

I won't pretend the improvements are night and day, because the Carbon is a very good cartridge but they are there and clearly audible if the system is up to it.

[Lurch]

Spacer kits are available on ebay, I paid £10 for a kit with 2x 2mm & 2x 1mm in it, simply type in Rega tonearm spacers.
If you change carts and need to fit a spacer to get the arm level, simply undo the large nut under the platter which holds the arm Inplace. Remove the arm & leads from the platter, thread 1 or more spacers onto bottom of arm (so they fit between arm and platter) then re-install arm & nut).
Your other option would be to get and origin live or michell vta adjuster, (they fit on similar to the spacers) but allow adjustment of arm height by simply turning it on the screw thread.

[hifi_dave]

Spacer kits are available on ebay, I paid £10 for a kit with 2x 2mm & 2x 1mm in it, simply type in Rega tonearm spacers.
If you change carts and need to fit a spacer to get the arm level, simply undo the large nut under the platter which holds the arm Inplace. Remove the arm & leads from the platter, thread 1 or more spacers onto bottom of arm (so they fit between arm and platter) then re-install arm & nut).
Your other option would be to get and origin live or michell vta adjuster, (they fit on similar to the spacers) but allow adjustment of arm height by simply turning it on the screw thread.

There is no "large nut", it is a 3 screw fix.

[Lurch]

Ahh okay, assumed rp1 had same as early rb arms.
In that case the change is easier and there is a spacer with multiple height positions which means only one spacer to buy.

[Kvaal]

Forgot to mention that the old Technics carts are rebranded Nagaokas.

[Valentiaman]

With the Elys-2 you will get better, more secure tracking especially in the inner grooves plus more detail retrieved and greater refinement.

I won't pretend the improvements are night and day, because the Carbon is a very good cartridge but they are there and clearly audible if the system is up to it.

Bit weird; the second line of your post was only showing when I clicked "reply with quote". Thanks for the points, Dave, and after a few listens, I'm fairly sure I can hear a bit more detail, especially around the mid tones. The bass is not especially strong, other than when I use the 'loudness' button on the Marantz. I would prefer not to use it, but unless the amp is above 60% it doesn't have much punch in the bass.

[steve-z]

I have to disagree about the tracking performance of the Elys 2, the one I had would not pass band 3 on my HFS test disc and it gave noticeable IGD, both the AT95E and Nag MP110 are far better trackers. Fitting the 3 point fixing spacers is a 5 minute job, another option is to replace the Rega felt mat (3mm thick) with an Origin live mat (1mm) thick, sounds better with the OL mat too, I’ve done both on my Planar 3, OL mat + a 1.5mm spacer gets vta spot on with my ATF7. Using spacers can lead to the counterweight touching the lid when lowered, but as most people know for best sound quality you should remove the lid when playing records.


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[Valentiaman]

another option is to replace the Rega felt mat (3mm thick) with an Origin live mat (1mm) thick, sounds better with the OL mat too, I’ve done both on my Planar 3, OL mat + a 1.5mm spacer gets vta spot on with my ATF7.

As mentioned elsewhere, I managed to smash up my beloved Dual 505, the other day I've put the mat from it on my Rega Planar 1. Would that work OK, also, would you recommend me getting the glass platter?


.... but as most people know for best sound quality you should remove the lid when playing records.

I'd no idea.

[steve-z]

As mentioned elsewhere, I managed to smash up my Dual 505 the other. I've put the mat from it on my Rega Planar 1. Would that work OK, also, would you recommend me getting the glass platter?



I'd no idea.

If the rubber mat is thinner than the felt mat it would probably be ok, I’m not sure if it’s worth changing the platter as I’m unsure if the motor is as strong as the motor on the Planar 2 and 3. With regard to cartridge depth Rega cartridges are 14mm deep, most other cartridges are 17-18mm, my ATF7 is 17.6mm according to ATs specs. If you decide on a non Rega cartridge you can decide what to do to get the correct alignment, either by using the appropriate spacer or a combination of spacer and thinner platter mat as I have. I have used the Origin Live mat on 4 different turntables and it gave an improvement on all of them irrespective of platter material, I’ve used it on pressed steel (Debut Carbon), Medite (Project Genie), Aluminium (ATLP120) and Glass (Planar 3).
It gives better performance than all the other mats I’ve tried, at £40 it’s less expensive than a lot of other mats as well.
The turntable lid is very prone to picking up airborne vibration which can get back to the stylus and colour the sound, or as a worst case scenario acoustic feedback (fairly unlikely).

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[Primalsea]

I wouldn’t write any cartridge off until you have played around with the VTA by either raising/lowering the tonearm, shimming the cartridge or changing platter mats. Like Geoff suggests VTA can mean the life or death of a cartridge.

[steve-z]

Ahh okay, assumed rp1 had same as early rb arms.
In that case the change is easier and there is a spacer with multiple height positions which means only one spacer to buy.

I had one of the spacers with multiple heights but unfortunately it only gives 2,4,6 or 8mm adjustments, tbh 6&8mm would probably never be needed, 1,1.5,2 and 2.5 would probably be more useful particularly if you go for a thinner mat, I use a single 1.5mm shim.


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[hifi_dave]

but unless the amp is above 60% it doesn't have much punch in the bass.


That's not the cartridge, it's amp and speaker interaction.

Don't spend too much buying mats and platters for the P1 as you will end up in P2 territory. Maybe the retailer can help you by taking the P1 back for a P2.

[steve-z]

That's not the cartridge, it's amp and speaker interaction.

Don't spend too much buying mats and platters for the P1 as you will end up in P2 territory. Maybe the retailer can help you by taking the P1 back for a P2.

Good idea, or even a P3 [emoji16]


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[Akod]

Hello, everyone!

My name is Andrey. Nice to meet you all! I'm new at this forum and this thread is basically the reason, why I'm here. )

The matter is I have the same setup: I purchased Rega Planar 1 and then decided to upgrade it with Elys 2 cartridge, but I've faced a rather annoying problem with pre-set anti-scating on RB110 tonearm. As I read after, it's set to 2g without ajustment ability, which is too much for Elys 2, so, when I've set the recommended 1,75g downforce with counterweight, the cartridge began to slide to the right, which sometimes causes playback problems and, as I can guess, exessive pressure on one side of the groove is also not too good for records. I've read, that people unmounted the magnet which is glued inside the tonarm to fix this problem, but I think it is extreme measure for almost new TT.

Did anyone faced a problem like this ?

Stephen, how did you solve it in your setup ?

Thank you!

[steve-z]

Hello, everyone!

My name is Andrey. Nice to meet you all! I'm new at this forum and this thread is basically the reason, why I'm here. )

The matter is I have the same setup: I purchased Rega Planar 1 and then decided to upgrade it with Elys 2 cartridge, but I've faced a rather annoying problem with pre-set anti-scating on RB110 tonearm. As I read after, it's set to 2g without ajustment ability, which is too much for Elys 2, so, when I've set the recommended 1,75g downforce with counterweight, the cartridge began to slide to the right, which sometimes causes playback problems and, as I can guess, exessive pressure on one side of the groove is also not too good for records. I've read, that people unmounted the magnet which is glued inside the tonarm to fix this problem, but I think it is extreme measure for almost new TT.

Did anyone faced a problem like this ?

Stephen, how did you solve it in your setup ?

Thank you!

I’d be surprised if the slightly lower tracking force of the Elys would cause the arm to skate outwards, my suggestion would be first of all to check the turntable is perfectly level, best done with a level app on a smartphone, and then check the downforce with a digital gauge, Rega do have a habit of having bias set too high, on my Planar 3 I have the bias setting at just under the 1 mark on the arm scale even though my cartridge (ATF7) is a 2 gram tracker, got this optimised with a test record.
Once you have checked the level and tracking force and made sure your stylus is scrupulously clean if you’re still having the problem I’d get in touch with Rega either direct or via your dealer and advise them of the problem.


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[Akod]

Hi!

Thank you for your reply!

I'm afraid the problem is still there. TT is perfectly balanced. I've put back the native Carbon cart and checked whether will it slide to the right, if I move the counterweight and it also does.

https://i.ibb.co/Dzgv22H/20190303-165352.jpg (https://ibb.co/Gn38SS4)

А that is what happens:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Q3GHeeEyRMDlHV-izQQql27pfdQBWvp0

I also made videos and photos of what happens with Elys 2 in this thread:

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?62332-Rega-Planar-1-anti-skating-issue/page2

[steve-z]

Here’s a tutorial on how to adjust/alter the “fixed” bias on the Planar 1.
https://youtu.be/bb8STonWhg4


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[Minstrel SE]

Yes you should have bought a P2 :) and you really dont want to be going too mad on cartridges.....fit an AT95E a cart thats been recommended for donkeys years

[steve-z]

The P2 has the RB220 arm which still has fixed bias the same as the P1 arm so is constrained on cartridge choice unless you do the mod outlined in the Youtube video. If doing the bias mod isn’t something you want to attempt then the AT95E or the better AT95EX would be suitable, have used both myself in the past, the AT95EX came standard fit on my 2nd tier system turntable the Audio Technica ATLP5 and it’s SQ is very good for the money although I’ve now upgraded it to the Goldring E3. (Have to admit I love the E3’s threaded body, makes it a doddle to fit). As they track at 2g the fixed bias wouldn’t be too far adrift but not ideal. Even with the adjustable bias on my P3 the scale gives excessive bias, with my 2g tracking cartridge (ATF7) I have to use a slightly lower than “1” position on the scale for the correct bias.
If you do decide to stick with the P1 your next possible upgrade would be the subplatter, I can recommend the one by Fidelity Designs which I’ve had on my P3 for the last 18 months.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190729/868953c5a90388a1d1e0a4bab78c7604.jpg
Engineering quality of the subplatter is excellent for the £50 asking price and it also has a taller spindle so you can use a record clamp such as the Michell that I use.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190729/c890d136f3269c8381108b6895db3bcd.jpg

[MDS]

I'd never even consider subplatter, record clamp or other so-called "upgrades" for Rega TT
Use as is or upgrade to next Rega level, put another stylus on P1/Carbon or go next level P2
P3 get a Neo PSU and exact.
Roy/Rega have decades of experience, amateurish changes usually fail succes

Not satisfied with Elys ?
Go back to dealer and Rega with complaints
(They will help if you haven't "modded" deck)

[steve-z]

I'd never even consider subplatter, record clamp or other so-called "upgrades" for Rega TT
Use as is or upgrade to next Rega level, put another stylus on P1/Carbon or go next level P2
P3 get a Neo PSU and exact.
Roy/Rega have decades of experience, amateurish changes usually fail succes

Not satisfied with Elys ?
Go back to dealer and Rega with complaints
(They will help if you haven't "modded" deck)

Some people can’t afford the big leap in price to move up to the next up Rega turntable, that’s why many people take the upgrade path. As for the PSU route, when I bought my P3 second hand it had the Elys 2 and TTPSU with it, did extensive AB listening tests with and without the TTPSU and could detect no difference in sound quality, as I only own 3 45s keeping it just so I could change speed with a switch didn’t warrant keeping it, likewise speed tested with a strobe showed no difference either, to me it’s just an extra superfluous box and cable taking up space. As to going to the Exact, with the problems a friend of mine had with 2 separate examples of the Exact I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole, he contacted Rega and the issues were not resolved to his satisfaction.
As to the use of a clamp, I find it very useful as I use a solid acrylic platter mat and in conjunction with a spindle O ring it takes care of the problem of warped/dished records, sound quality is much more to my liking than with the standard wool mat, more focused and taught sounding, of course it’s each to their own.
Again a personal choice with regard the Elys sound although it was not a great tracker particularly on inner grooves, the Nagaoka MP110 I replaced it with was better sounding and tracked better, the ATF7 MC I now use is even better still albeit at a higher price.

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[MDS]

If the TTpsu didn't provide any clear reasonable improvements there's obviously something else wrong
Check your setup, so much could course issues.

I'm sorry to hear you have issues with Rega cartridges.
I've owned older Elys and Exact which was no succes, later samples are much better, buying new and not satisfied , Rega will help, they are hand build to a degree.

I don't understand why buy Rega if acrylic platter and clamp is wanted.? but its your money

[Mikeandvan]

I had the Elys on a RP3 once, and thought it considerably better than the bias.

[steve-z]

If the TTpsu didn't provide any clear reasonable improvements there's obviously something else wrong
Check your setup, so much could course issues.

I don't understand why buy Rega if acrylic platter and clamp is wanted.? but its your money

I’ve been setting up turntables and cartridges for over 40 years, believe me I do know what I’m doing.
The acrylic mat and clamp work beautifully together and improve an already excellent turntable, total cost for the two under £50, hardly big bucks but very worthwhile. Why buy a Rega ?
Style, and a fantastic pickup arm [emoji846]
Style is something that seems to have taken a back seat with the latest P6, no option finishes just just dour grey, wouldn’t buy it with that finish even if I had the money.

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