USB versus NAS [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

mightymonoped

22-08-2018, 14:34

First off, this is just initial impressions after some noodling around having temporarily replaced my usual NAS based files server with a directly attached USB 3 hard disk.

Original configuration:-

RPi/Allo Boss connected by CAT5 Ethernet cable to BT Home Hub Router, Buffalo Dual Disk NAS connected via CAT5 Ethernet cable to Home Hub Router.

Media Library on NAS is controlled via Macbook Pro running JJRiver Media Centre wirelessly.

RPi running Volumio 2 connected (via CAT5) to NAS

No problems to speak of, everything works and sounds pretty damn good in comparison to the CDP using Xiang Sheng DAC01a

New Configuration:-

RPi/Allo Boss connected via CAT5 Ethernet cable to BT Home Hub Router

Media Library copied to USB Hard Drive connected via USB3 cable to RPi

Sound seems to have come alive! Clearer, more detail, deeper bass (that Allo Boss signature sound) and just, well more going on!

Initial impressions are that such a difference means I will have to use the NAS as a backup device, not the USB player! I can't see myself swapping the USB drive out, even if it means it's more of a pain to update the Media Library.

In effect, I'm using the network to manage the 'headless' aspects of RPi/Volumio setup, but the actual FLAC files are as directly connected as they can be to the DAC, and it appears (to me at least) to make a significant difference in the quality of the sound that ensues.

struth

22-08-2018, 15:43

i can samba music to the external hdd on rpi although its slow. if you have a few to do its quicker going and taking hdd to pc

mightymonoped

22-08-2018, 15:55

i can samba music to the external hdd on rpi although its slow. if you have a few to do its quicker going and taking hdd to pc

Along the lines of what I need to look at next Grant. I want to find the easiest way of keeping all the components online (for ease of admin and backup purposes) but keep the USB connection direct to the RPi. If I can get both the NAS drives and the USB drive accessible at the same time on the Macbook, it'll be sorted.

mikmas

22-08-2018, 16:55

Along the lines of what I need to look at next Grant. I want to find the easiest way of keeping all the components online (for ease of admin and backup purposes) but keep the USB connection direct to the RPi. If I can get both the NAS drives and the USB drive accessible at the same time on the Macbook, it'll be sorted.

I only use USB with my Pi - found setting up a NAS a chore so didn't bother.
I access the drive on the Pi via my Mac Mini over WiFi in the Finder menu by:

GO>Connect to Server>cifs://moode/USB or
GO>Connect to Server>smb://moode/USB

Log in as Guest and this should mount the USB drive on your desktop so you can transfer files, etc.

I presume this would work equally well with Volumio instead of Moode in the path ;)

mightymonoped

22-08-2018, 17:21

I only use USB with my Pi - found setting up a NAS a chore so didn't bother.
I access the drive on the Pi via my Mac Mini over WiFi in the Finder menu by:

GO>Connect to Server>cifs://moode/USB or
GO>Connect to Server>smb://moode/USB

Log in as Guest and this should mount the USB drive on your desktop so you can transfer files, etc.

I presume this would work equally well with Volumio instead of Moode in the path ;)

Nice! I’ll give that a whirl a bit later [emoji106]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clive

22-08-2018, 17:33

I use a Windows Share with my Pi over ethernet. It's certainly a step up from a USB connected drive.

struth

22-08-2018, 17:36

I use a Windows Share with my Pi over ethernet. It's certainly a step up from a USB connected drive.

I can do that too from either pc or files on router. Prefer the direct wired USB I think but will give it another try

Clive

22-08-2018, 17:46

I can do that too from either pc or files on router. Prefer the direct wired USB I think but will give it another try
I find USB to be softer sounding which might preferable depending on the system. Windows Share is more incisive.

mikmas

22-08-2018, 18:08

I use a Windows Share with my Pi over ethernet. It's certainly a step up from a USB connected drive.

That is essentially what Tony was doing before - Windows Share (and the Mac equivalent) is basically NAS by a different name ;)

Clive

22-08-2018, 18:27

That is essentially what Tony was doing before - Windows Share (and the Mac equivalent) is basically NAS by a different name ;)

Yep, it's probably even the same CIFS protocol.

lovejoy

23-08-2018, 11:53

This is sounding very similar to what I've found of late with network connected devices. The problem is most likely not with your NAS, but with the fact that your BTHomeHub is doing all of the heavy lifting in terms of routing, internet connections, firewalls, internal IP assignments and so on. Moving all of my audio related devices onto a separate router which is doing nothing but sending audio but with a bridge to the main router so that the audio devices have internet access if they need it, has made a tremendous difference - and I concur with your findings because I also tried playing music directly from an HD connected to my Pi over USB for a while and found this to be MUCH better than streaming everything over a network with just one router for everything - but if you want all of the convenience back along with the gains (and possibly more) in terms of sound quality, then a second router, or if your NAS happens to have the ability for two separate network connections, then this gives you everything...

Clive

23-08-2018, 12:14

Is this with the latest Pi with the improved USB? I find HD connected to USB is not as good as NAS but my router isn't doing much when I play music as I'm usually the only user. I'm using the orininal Pi 3 not the latest.

Also is the HD Pi USB powered or with its own PS that prevents back powering the Pi? This makes quite a difference.

mightymonoped

23-08-2018, 13:16

Clive, it's a Pi 3b (I believe) and the HD has it's own power supply, so no worries on that.

I'm intending to try either SMB or CIFS connection tonight, have no reason to believe it won't work as I have used it with various platforms before.

Richard,
I did consider putting an additional router in place but to be honest, it's just more kit that I don't really need right now. I'm happy to run an 'as needed' connection to both the NAS and the HD via the MBpro when I am adding to the Media Library. The NAS will function as a backup rather than as the primary library in this case and the HD will remain in place directly connected. This is a simple setup but actually meets all of my needs at this point.

All of this assuming I can get it all working of course :-)

Clive

23-08-2018, 13:35

Clive, it's a Pi 3b (I believe) and the HD has it's own power supply, so no worries on that.

Thanks Tony, the Pi 3B probably explains why the USB HD sounds best or at least equal to a lightly loaded router. I'll have to get one sometime to compare as the USB implementation on the 3B does seem to give genuine improvements.

mightymonoped

23-08-2018, 18:01

mikmas

23-08-2018, 18:12

Good news! Connected fine under CIFS (permission issues under SMB) and have reconfigured JRiver to use it as the Main Library. Can now just rip directly to the HD from the MBpro as needed. Will use the NAS as a backup device from now on.

Great stuff !! :)
Glad you made progress - sometimes the permission errors with smb can be cured simply by adding the name of the drive .... in my case 'ALBUMS'

smb://moode/USB/ALBUMS

struth

23-08-2018, 18:31

didnt think cifs worked now. its ancient. yeah permissions can be a bugger.

Yomanze

24-08-2018, 14:15

Good news! Connected fine under CIFS (permission issues under SMB) and have reconfigured JRiver to use it as the Main Library. Can now just rip directly to the HD from the MBpro as needed. Will use the NAS as a backup device from now on.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Make sure you DO use that NAS to back up! Will give peace of mind and mean you’re not one of the unlucky souls who needs to re-rip it all. I recently read of someone who had to do 10000 of them, not fun.

mightymonoped

24-08-2018, 14:25

Make sure you DO use that NAS to back up! Will give peace of mind and mean you’re not one of the unlucky souls who needs to re-rip it all. I recently read of someone who had to do 10000 of them, not fun.

Don't worry, you're preaching to the converted! I've had to deal with many failed HD, SSD and RAID arrays in my time! :-)

Mr. C

24-08-2018, 15:53

RJ45 any day of the week

StanleyB

24-08-2018, 19:51

mightymonoped

28-08-2018, 16:45

I had great problems playing 192KHz files from the NAS. They were not being transported fast enough, which was causing buffering issues. So in a moment of madness I added a 1TB SSD in one of my laptops and put all my music on that laptop.

I think 1Tb SSD connected directly may be where I’m going to spend money next, I’ve already upgraded the Macbook’s drive a while back but I don’t use the Mac as a source, only media library management and astro image processing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Batty

29-08-2018, 03:05

I have just ordered a Pi 3B+ and DAC HAT, I was thinking of using Volumio, any thoughts?

struth

29-08-2018, 03:57

I have just ordered a Pi 3B+ and DAC HAT, I was thinking of using Volumio, any thoughts?

volumio2 works pretty well and is easy to set up. Sounds good too,

jonners

29-08-2018, 06:53

I have just ordered a Pi 3B+ and DAC HAT, I was thinking of using Volumio, any thoughts?

When Moode 4.3 is released it will become available again as an 'easy to install image'. Why not try that also and see which you prefer?

guyhayton

29-08-2018, 16:35

Another vote for Moode from me... 4.2 is excellent and what Tim has planned for 4.3 is impressive

struth

29-08-2018, 16:43

I got my moode 4.2 pre set up for me and it is good. Glad to hear the next iteration will be easier to set up or come pre done.
Volumio2 is fairly easy to set up. Ive also got picoreplayer/ Logitech server on a card too. I needed helpwith that but it's good too. In some ways the best.

PaulBarnett

30-08-2018, 09:23

Take this for what it's worth....

I have an allo digione player (it comes with a Pi 3), running picoreplayer (a logitech client - squeezelite), taking flac files from LMS (logitech media server), LMS is running under linux on an x86_64 (intel) machine , and reading files from a NAS, via NFS over ethernet

I have in the past compared LMS running on the linux machine vs LMS running directly on the NAS, and could hear no difference.

Prompted by this thread, I have recently tried running LMS directly on the Pi, reading the flac files directly from the NAS, (via NFS over wireless), or from a local disk (over USB).

Again, I could hear no difference.