View Full Version : Micro-Seiki DDX-100 / Marantz TT-1000 bearing oil
Hi all,
My main turntable is a DDX-1000 and while the platter turns smoothly and quietly I'm wondering if I should do anything with the nearly 40 year old oil in the main platter bearing. I saw that back in 2009 a user here had a Marantz TT-1000 restored but it appears the restorer is out of business.
The bearing consists of a large steel ball that rides in a plastic cup. I can post photos once I have it apart. My plan is to clean it up and lube with synthetic motor oil. The oil in it is black in color which I assume is from wear.
Any expertise in safely lubing these types of bearings would be appreciated!
https://pwnz3a.by.files.1drv.com/y4mxErxQu0NelOK-Pj2G5l-wUayWdSSg_I5PtBBerJabx-fuf_F6bQ1joCRLTgmoug54Kj809yr3qxsg-yU9zNDQil2LG80kQKUV7NM1qAdf0kwKHMwOEMB__tDQG4RQblg rivrXljhtbeSW1egi0EYWQEzjL_F3pj1itHkwVTlga3M6sM-vO_mwdE8BQv_Oc0yOM3v8KURVhoSVo2C3NMazg?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none
Whilst choice of bearing oils can be quite a contentious subject. I definitely wouldn't use one of the common engine oil types, as its viscosity and general make up is wrong for the low speed, low stress environment of a tt bearing.
Engine oils tend to be designed with high temperatures and repetitive shear in mind, along with additives to increase adhesion to reciprocating surfaces and chemical attack from burnt fuel products.
Whilst choice of bearing oils can be quite a contentious subject. I definitely wouldn't use one of the common engine oil types, as its viscosity and general make up is wrong for the low speed, low stress environment of a tt bearing.
Engine oils tend to be designed with high temperatures and repetitive shear in mind, along with additives to increase adhesion to reciprocating surfaces and chemical attack from burnt fuel products.
Thanks, any suggestions? I have some 20w electric motor oil.
Very interested, I use one of these and they are keepers in my book.
The service manual says sealed for life, but not sure how long that meant back in the late 70s!
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Again I would say no, as leccy motors tend to be high rpm devices so have different lubrication requirements.
I would suggest getting some bearing oil from Origin Live, not cheap considering the quantity supplied, but it does the correct job. I would also suggest ongoing, that just like a car you should do an oil change occasionally. Say once every 2 years.
This came up in a search (no affiliation):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064BX44I/?coliid=I27H44UZ1ZT01S&colid=27YEI70P4L5LZ&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Yep should be okay as was formulated specifically for TT bearings, so will have the correct viscosity/additives and other properties required that working environment.
phonomac
22-08-2018, 14:19
Liquid Bearings is simply 5W synthetic motor oil packaged up in small bottles - nothing special about it.
Technics bearings, including those on the SP10 Mk2 use Anderol 465 compressor oil (actually that oil bottled up in small vials, and given a Technics part number). That is what I would use if I had to do the job. That said getting in to a Micro-Seiki 'sealed-for-life' bearing might be interesting:eyebrows:
Yep should be okay as was formulated specifically for TT bearings, so will have the correct viscosity/additives and other properties required that working environment.
OK I pulled the trigger on that. The fact that it doesn't affect plastics is very important, it seems most TT bearings are metal to metal and don't have this concern.
Liquid Bearings is simply 5W synthetic motor oil packaged up in small bottles - nothing special about it.
Technics bearings, including those on the SP10 Mk2 use Anderol 465 compressor oil (actually that oil bottled up in small vials, and given a Technics part number). That is what I would use if I had to do the job. That said getting in to a Micro-Seiki 'sealed-for-life' bearing might be interesting:eyebrows:
The bearing isn't sealed, it has a plate on the bottom of the motor unit held with 3 screws. On the other side of the plate is the plastic (nylon/delrin?) cup.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/marantz-Tt_1000.html
Well if the plate genuinely is delrin or nylon you'd be safe with the anderol 465, please keep us informed?
I have no idea why lubing is not listed as a service item but the manual only specifies replacing the motor unit complete.
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StanleyB
22-08-2018, 20:59
I'll be interested to know how to get the platter off, and/or oil the spindle. I haven't managed to figure that one out yet in the decades of ownership of my DDX-1000.
You just lift the platter off. It's probably stuck to the spindle a bit. Gentle action will release it. But hold off oiling anything right now!
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StanleyB
22-08-2018, 22:45
I tried lifting the platter up many times, even using copious amount of elbow grease. But mine seems to have some sort of secret locking mechanism somewhere. It just refuses to budge:scratch:.
walpurgis
22-08-2018, 22:51
The spindle should have a bit of end float in the bearing, so lift the platter as high as the float will allow and pack slips of card under the platter edge all round to hold it up, then use a plastic face mallet or a hammer and block of wood to ease the impact and firmly (but not silly hard) tap the spindle end. The platter should 'pop' free. I've used this method many times.
The platter will pop off but there's not much to see underneath unless you intend to take it apart. I'll provide photos of mine when I lube it.
Other work I've done in this table:
Recapped just because of its age
Had the platter professionally polished and lacquered
Replaced the rotted feet with sorbothane
Put a cap across the power switch to reduce the turn-on pop (there is one on the schematic but not on my table)
Went through the speed calibration exercise with a frequency counter.
I have the SME armboard and plan to add a 3rd arm when finances allow. Fun fun! I don't expect to replace this table in my lifetime unless something irreplaceable dies.
I always used PDP-38 oil for my turntable and r-2-r lubrication, but then the company paid. I don't think that I could afford it now.
Floyddroid
24-08-2018, 20:31
Fab th this. I would love one.
This came up in a search (no affiliation):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064BX44I/?coliid=I27H44UZ1ZT01S&colid=27YEI70P4L5LZ&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
I have a bottle of that stuff I bought for Model train engines! Good to know I can use it on my ‘table if need be.
Russell
Yesterday the oil arrived so I dove in. Here's what I did:
Bottom of the DDX with cover removed:
https://6hqmeq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mwxg9fx5Oco_PjXq0pimRykwThUrOHAInqWW5JrySGZceXFa uXz0KWTJq8aktPrzSkxfdikW3HcY2mHN9IfUBycVfzeqP2dYI5 1FPSToaVqA_05KZFvdkJdgYy8p6HXCM2Wq8OxV1JexHKKNiLXm Q6c4d_Mc2PpDypKF3udYqoGsF1n7-57lCBx4GbiLoY0JO2L3weS1fBPPE-9ueHhjV6Q?width=576&height=1024&cropmode=none
Lower bearing removed. What looks like a blob of oil is a plastic disk, which I'll show later.
https://63qeeq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mSzBd5wRFKqn9ZcTj304yf5XpFdugF1cKWr-YoqmaOrfvlLJC2BTe9JtaP7GdixqFz6-PTcqAWZrZmxCUXfmEAPqjluHp-ciRbqB7nbaXfKnQRsNHfoTjDD-39JfHSX0KELtvOGKaBdqSBrt58RuJqpgPmxd_6MRPTsyIeKA63 rPKZT_dUk3uBwFeq7OzDnuL7Hxrq9Zf8XUL3b5yuu10pg?widt h=576&height=1024&cropmode=none
Top covers removed:
https://63qceq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mFX1xhsXO2xrrVI8VlTWFzYYioeug0a3_XdJ-FiIOgVnQxCikzx4PpZF8xLK2cz2Vke84cMPZkY76iHoispxM8e ltW6YJ9qlYZAeWTSG--M8dx5cRXQOTO6MBIM4fclKKlvcIaLsBqB7YtKf2caxmPdKla9r 5WU3ARQVn_Lbi7D53d6fIF7Ez2oSxl9LO73HqeGZaFBZMr3LZv E3_a_vtuw?width=576&height=1024&cropmode=none
Motor out:
https://63qdeq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mMohY_qV99r-qIYpgNpBom-n7G4mQxpns00rOBiiPBMGtqhgpgqoHwIlWdk_QMBG4kmE6ewhc qK4msQ_HcgYeGNfOXQmC03CV-G9fl0TnVB9so3gN4MGrodNjt5PU2wv7B3se8eRQW6m_AlP00ME NZMsPgdz44azqZxf40p3a8PLjH-Xg83RMvzBHDnQ2NzDVMhD6jJ73Tq53iB14oHEl-g?width=1024&height=576&cropmode=none
Motor apart:
https://63qgeq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mm-qfTXz3WDR-7AgbzmefpuU4e4uxXE9ULRNqyjer5VbnIdXBGLjUEMt6bky8MI QvLMIlsU9aYFUQHy6-Ti5ZCWLwhmHVuLoUeFjvvtLHAlM865w4BfrZN24kTO6UnL_D-1y-llslA-bXPrDPadjTJOBFBQlDluaYI_IInme8bZHnnVYT0fFK2AbxsJTq Swr5oEP1BgdsbckuaXswU0PKjg?width=576&height=1024&cropmode=none
These plastic disks fell out. I assume they need to be replaced, not sure with what. I just put them back on top of the thrust bearing.
https://63qneq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mm5SqP110dD6hcbSIYnNTGfCLIKKZIUT4PZYSL8HCitOV3rd PDbzk1qiWb5vXgRG0NNYOd_dTEQjRHnwqR9gIwgK-CgDY5m7EfkweMmrIBtrZ4Q065gyFthhoZ_wabzAoETxXLmJKFP 62isW-0PRoL7DKDNboEjl1EeIpru41mJKcKDcjFIF_VJvxElZgVwh-SIL8bgW9bQ-AvVmTZDSR_g?width=576&height=1024&cropmode=none
All surfaces were cleaned and re-oiled with the synthetic and after buttoning it up it's running smooth and silent. I'll chalk this one up as a success but I am concerned about those plastic disks, I assume they used to be flat.
Primalsea
28-08-2018, 12:06
I think that those two pieces of plastic form a thrust bearing to protect the spindle bottom and the bottom of the bearing housing. Also they possibly shim the motor rotor to the correct height, so that the motor runs most efficiently.
You could probably replace those with some PTFE discs of the same thickness.
I think that those two pieces of plastic form a thrust bearing to protect the spindle bottom and the bottom of the bearing housing. Also they possibly shim the motor rotor to the correct height, so that the motor runs most efficiently.
You could probably replace those with some PTFE discs of the same thickness.
Thanks, it looks like a sheet of .015" thick would do the trick.
On another note, I find it difficult to lock in a speed with no drift; the pots on the control unit are extremely sensitive. In the video I'm just barely touching them and I'm wondering if I should replace them with better multi-turn ones. While I had the bottom off I set the internal VRs according to the service manual but they are no better than the main ones on the control unit. I could almost replace the internal ones with precision fixed resistors.
https://youtu.be/ai-WCA1hvbA
Might it just be settling in? Mine is easy to adjust as I suspect yours was, you haven't changed the electronics at all, so I suspect summat mechanical. Those thrust plate things looked pretty mis-shapen, could it have something to do with them?
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Might it just be settling in? Mine is easy to adjust as I suspect yours was, you haven't changed the electronics at all, so I suspect summat mechanical. Those thrust plate things looked pretty mis-shapen, could it have something to do with them?
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Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I'll put the teflon in before I do anything else.
Thanks, it looks like a sheet of .015" thick would do the trick.
On another note, I find it difficult to lock in a speed with no drift; the pots on the control unit are extremely sensitive. In the video I'm just barely touching them and I'm wondering if I should replace them with better multi-turn ones. While I had the bottom off I set the internal VRs according to the service manual but they are no better than the main ones on the control unit. I could almost replace the internal ones with precision fixed resistors.
https://youtu.be/ai-WCA1hvbA
what is the record thats playing?
what is the record thats playing?
Mile Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants (1954) on Waxtime.
By way of update, I received the PTFE sheet from Amazon and it's a bit thicker than the two pads that were in the bearing originally, .015" versus maybe .010" for the two. But they are so worn who knows how thick they were in 1979. I put in a single thickness and ordered some thinner stuff.
Bottom line is the platter takes a lot longer to spin down now. I should have timed it. So this maintenance is highly recommended for any DDX owners out there. I'll open it up after it runs in a while and check the condition.
Also, if you need some of the PTFE I have enough for several lifetimes now!
https://63o97g.by.files.1drv.com/y4msBsfB6qZ3iNv7kMTpySFbjyVemIQsqNcYe1cgDthndodIk0 ozWQvqzVwq8A3ztyuUBb1TC3l_VUl_7sNsG4SLWVcsTMK5Xgv8 wmL2aUktIwDm0AGDTSgwC4X8vwgZGtKJ91DY6wnpbDFSLHz_8Q zmtBpyJisgHIljeg2sycEH64zDsjFbVBUrQVNcCaNPGnrZLgPe r3iD5jJMBPIxhoTEQ?width=576&height=1024&cropmode=none
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