Cheapo System

[MartinT]

Last weekend I installed a cheapo system for my girlfriend Ruth, consisting of some obsolete equipment from the school I work for plus a very inexpensive CD player to complete it.

Components: Tangent CDP-50 CD player (from Richer Sounds), Sony TA-FE370 amplifier, Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 speakers, QED speaker cable.

We mounted the speakers on custom glass shelves either side of a chimney breast (the glass only took a week to arrive, given measurements by us), with the provided very sturdy mounting brackets. I sat the speakers on thin cork feet, straight on the glass. The components were put into a cabinet made for a record deck (it has an opening top lid), amp on top of CD player. Power straight into a double socket at back.

So how does it sound? Remarkably good, in fact. It has a nice line in detail, reasonably transparent midrange, surprising (if boxy) bass extension in the tradition of LS3/5as. There is a soundstage as such, although the speaker mounting is probably the limiting factor here (appearances are important to her). The biggest problem is the untreated room - I am very sensitive to normal rooms since I use so much room treatment in mine. There are a couple of boomy room nodes I'd like to get rid of, although things are softened somewhat when the curtains are closed.

The speakers, especially, are impressive for their cost and the CD player is incredible for such a cheap device. The amp is an unknown to me, but performs its job well.

What did I learn? Well, apart from the pleasure of bringing music to her household, I'm impressed with how much quality can be yielded from such a low outlay. Yes there are limitations in transparency and the frequency extremes but it's not as bad as might be imagined. It is 1000% better sounding than most mini/integrated systems you can buy from the Japanese/Koreans/Malaysians/Chinese. The amount of pleasure it is bringing Ruth tells me all I need to know. 50-75% of high end performance for peanuts!

She now wants a record deck.

[DSJR]

There you go. Top End is mostly an expensive waste of money and very few items actually deliver that extra 20% or less.....

You may find the anti-Linn thing of thin rubber or felt feet under the speakers may just help a bit. carefully check drive units for tightness (they do work loose) and use some cheap but good interconnects from ebay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1m-Neutrik-Van-damme-Phono-to-Phono-Cable_W0QQitemZ350293750573QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_C omputing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item518f22732d

or these, which I rate - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-0m-Twin-RCA-Phono-HiFi-Lead-Van-damme-Hi-Fi-Cable_W0QQitemZ330397978113QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_C omputing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item4ced410e01

[Macca]

I think a lot of people who enjoy music through ipods and earphones or maybe their ipod dock speakers or active computer speakers just don't realise they can get fantastically better sound quality for little money. They wrongly assume that a 'proper hi-fi' is too expensive for them and never look any further.

The fact, as you demonstrate Martin, is that for as little as £150 you can easily get an amp and some speakers on the second hand market that will sound just fine with a bit of setting up care.

Over the years I've pointed this out to any number of people who now have much more expensive systems they really enjoy but if it had not been dempnstrated to them they could start out for such a small outlay they never would have done it.

It doesn't help that the mags review so much expensive gear in proportion to the cheaper stuff and don't ever mention buying used kit as a cheap starter option. They can give the impression that it is a hobby for millionaires only to the casual browser.

Part of the reason for the decline of Hi-Fi as a pastime, I think.

[Haselsh1]

You know, I would love to know at what point the law of dimishing returns dictates that you are not going to get any more sound for your money...? Let's face it; 500 quid CD player versus 1500 quid CD player. Is there actually going to be a grand's worth of difference and who says is is worth it. I guess the only person who is going to admit it is the individual who spent the money and therefore has to justify it...? Is ten grand's worth of Hi-Fi actually worth ten grand...??? Given the markup on consumer electronics in the UK market this ten grand Hi-Fi is only truly worth four grand so what is its true worth to us, the market users...?

[DSJR]

Lifestyles have moved on though and the plummeting costs of electronics pushed by the computer industry does seem to have left the audio industry rather exposed, to be honest.

I mean, there'll always be room for a tiny enthusiast manufacturer, but the mass market audio scene is dominated by inefficient comanies stuck in the seventies and eighties IMO. No wonder so much manufacturing is sent abroad, although it's a shame that little of the savings are being passed on, except for Cambridge and I bet they're very profitable, even at their giveaway prices.

Good cheap turntable? Rega's are silly money now for some reason, but a good and easily felltleable Goldring-lenco GL75 can be had for well under a ton. The tonearm bearing blocks and idlers are available still, set up is easy and stable, the supplied plinths aren't that bad and cartridges are available which will happily work in the arm, despite its mass. Once working, the deck is easy to use and will stand comparison with anything up to P3 standard - even with the standard arm IMO...

[Haselsh1]

I have noticed DSJR that since Audiolab moved their company to China they have passed on financial savings to their customers. Their 8000M monoblocks are now 300 quid apiece and the 8000Q preamp is only 300 quid. That's a whole mono amplifier setup for 900 pounds. Can't be bad.

[DSJR]

I'd like to listen to this current gear compared to the old - and even the TAG stuff which tuned the old designs up a little. IAG have still kept the Quad prices quite high though..

Works both ways I suppose. Reduce the prices and the products look cheap. Increase the prices and few people buy them in this current market.... :scratch:

[MartinT]

You know, I would love to know at what point the law of dimishing returns dictates that you are not going to get any more sound for your money...?

That depends on a lot of things, but dimishing returns doesn't mean no further improvement, it just means a lot of additional cost will give you smaller returns.

All the value for money is at the inexpensive end of the market, just as I proved here with Ruth's system. However, value is very much in the eye of the beholder and is not an exact measure.


Let's face it; 500 quid CD player versus 1500 quid CD player. Is there actually going to be a grand's worth of difference and who says is is worth it.

The person who bought says if it is worth it. Not you or anyone else.


Is ten grand's worth of Hi-Fi actually worth ten grand...???

Again, it's up to the person spending the money. My system cost me considerably more than that; is it worth it to me? You bet it is. Music is my #1 passion and I love what pleasure I get from my system. Who cares how much it cost me, I spent the money and I'm well satisfied! No-one else's opinion is in any way important.

[Haselsh1]

I guess the only person who is going to admit it is the individual who spent the money and therefore has to justify it...?

That's exactly what I said in my post !

[chris@panteg]

She now wants a record deck.

Cough ' SL1200 ' Cough :)


Actually how about An SLQ-L1 , pick em up for £30 to £50 no nonsense half decent performance ' and Martin i think you would find it a fascinating deck .

[MartinT]

Looks nice, Chris. My concern would be spares availability.

[chris@panteg]

Yes that is a risk ' i think you can get the arm belt from across the pond '

Well there is the project Genie ! great little deck by all accounts .