Moving Magnet recommendations required

[twelvebears]

Folks I’m looking for a MM recommendation to complement, or perhaps provide a contrast to my AT33EV

I do like the AT33EV but sometimes I wish for something with a slightly more ‘meaty’ midrange and bass.

As I have a Jelco 750 with detachable headshell I don’t see why I can’t have both!

Budget is flexible up to about £400

[Dubster68]

If you want a cart that gives true detail and hides nothing the Ortofon 2m Black is an amazing option. If your vinyl isn't in mint condition it will show the imperfections. Other options are the 2M Blue or Bronze that are a cheaper option and and more value for money. All carts work very well with the Jelco arm

[struth]

Meaty eh. Marco will be along shortly. Lol

Maybe a nice shure m55 with a nos stylus

[Ian7633]

Another vote for the 2M Black, excellent cartridge.

[plastic penguin]

I'm a big fan of Goldring carts. I have a 2500 fitted to my Pro-ject Classic (wish I could update my sig), and really gives the table a boost.

Although majoring on detail, I'm also a fan of ClearAudio cartridges such as Performer cartridge, which is under budget.

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=clearaudio+performer+v2+mm+cartridge

[Ammonite Audio]

My recommendation would be for Audio Technica's VM740ML or VM750SH. See https://eu.audio-technica.com/hifi-phono/cartridges/VM740ML and https://eu.audio-technica.com/hifi-phono/cartridges/VM750SH for details.

[Vrajbasi]

The Grado Reference Platinum Wood 2 Phono Cartridge is a fine cartridge under powerful with great bass £400, I find the audio technica cartridges a little lean and clinical over your budget the Nagoaka MP500 is a lovely cartridge very dynamic and open the grado maybe be a bit less open but has solid bass and powerful midrange. Pitty there cartridges like the shure ultra 500 and audio technica 170 and 180 ML don't exist anymore in the 90s there were some lovely sweet sounding cartridges available.

[RobbieGong]

Another vote for the 2M Black, excellent cartridge.

+1 Excellent is the word, the best or at least one of the best mm's in my view, a stellar cart.

Spent good time with the 2MB and it was the cart that really made me know what could be achieved in terms of hifi / vinyl replay.

Its Shibata stylus profile requires careful, accurate / meticulous set up. Which can be a faff but you'll forget the pain once you've nailed it / found the sweet-spot - big smiles :D

[karma67]

setting the vta on a 2m black is rather reminiscent of a tour of duty in Vietnam! :eek:

[RobbieGong]

setting the vta on a 2m black is rather reminiscent of a tour of duty in Vietnam! :eek:

:lol: Whenever I had to go there / re-visit set up was torture ! Fatiguing and takes a lot of time and care. Not easy to nail quickly.

I found the same with the Shibata-Quintet Black and my current Shibata-Cadenza Black.

I knocked mine out of sweetspot by catching the anti skate with the carbon fibre brush a while back - could have cried. Tried on and off for ages to nail it still havnt and now my system has been switched off for the past month due to kitchen build work and other priorities around the house :(

I can never seem to clock up any decent hours of listening on my system with one thing or the other which is a big bug bare that I hope one day will change :rolleyes:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Shure M55e + JICO neoSAS stylus easily upto the standards of the 2M black but without the expense or the PITA experience of setting it up.

[snowman_al]

No Nagaoka fans here?

MP 200 up. No fatigue, low surface noise etc...

[hifi_dave]

Some of the recommendations do not provide the "meaty bass and mid range" desired by the OP. His present AT is a better choice than some in that regard.

[Svend N]

Steve, since you specifically mention meatier bass and mid, then I would suggest looking at something like a Goldring 1042 or 1022. I have the latter, and have compared it with an Ortofon 2M Bronze on a Rega arm, and the 1022 was far more punchy, dynamic, full-bodied. Excellent bass drive and nice rich mids. The Bronze was also excellent, but quite different - more detailed, delicate, light-footed, quick. More air and ambiance than the Goldring, which was more forward and direct.

Both are excellent, but I think the Goldring fits your description better. Let me know if you need more feedback on either.

Svend

[stairpost]

I've been using a Clearaudio Performer for a few weeks, it's full of meaty goodness in the low end.

[mikeyb]

Shure M55e + JICO neoSAS stylus easily upto the standards of the 2M black but without the expense or the PITA experience of setting it up.That's what I keep as a spare.

Tried the 2m Black twice, sold them both [emoji6]

[Jac Hawk]

The ortofon 2m Black is a great cart, however if you want very similar performance but don’t fancy shelling out the £400 plus, then try the VMS30 mk2, you can get a very good 2nd hand one for about £150

[plastic penguin]

I've been using a Clearaudio Performer for a few weeks, it's full of meaty goodness in the low end.

Phew! Thought I was the only one waving the ClearAudio flag. :)

[Kvaal]

Technics EPC 205 is supposed to be the best. Then you have the rest of the family. EPC 206, EPC 207 and EPC 270c. They are not in production any more, but can be found as used. I have the EPC 207 and EPC 270c. I am happy with both, but happiest with the 207 on my Lenco L75. They fit the arm,, and my ears very well.

[twelvebears]

What are you saying about Marco! How rude! :-)

[steve-z]

For around £120 the Nagaoka MP110 is hard to beat, it’s got a good solid sound from top to bottom of the frequency range and it’s a very good tracker and not arm fussy.
If you fancy a little more incisive treble the MP150 at around £200.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[twelvebears]

Steve, since you specifically mention meatier bass and mid, then I would suggest looking at something like a Goldring 1042 or 1022. I have the latter, and have compared it with an Ortofon 2M Bronze on a Rega arm, and the 1022 was far more punchy, dynamic, full-bodied. Excellent bass drive and nice rich mids. The Bronze was also excellent, but quite different - more detailed, delicate, light-footed, quick. More air and ambiance than the Goldring, which was more forward and direct.

Both are excellent, but I think the Goldring fits your description better. Let me know if you need more feedback on either.

Svend

As it happens, I had been considering the 1042 because of fond memories of my first turntable and the Goldring fitted to it.

[Svend N]

Steve - for a bit more insight, I tried the 1022 with a Rega RB300 arm, which is lower mass than your Jelco. It sounded great. Compliance-wise the Jelco should be an even better match.

For most of the music that I presently have in my vinyl collection (jazz and rock), the Goldring sounded far better than the 2M Bronze. I'm sure if I had mostly classical or easy-going acoustic I might have preferred the lighter touch of the Bronze. But for straight-ahead driving jazz and rock, the Goldring is brilliant.

Apparently the 1042 is even better yet than the 1022. Great cartridges!

Hope this helps.

Best,
Svend

[Wakefield Turntables]

Technics EPC 205 is supposed to be the best. Then you have the rest of the family. EPC 206, EPC 207 and EPC 270c. They are not in production any more, but can be found as used. I have the EPC 207 and EPC 270c. I am happy with both, but happiest with the 207 on my Lenco L75. They fit the arm,, and my ears very well.

I think there's an article in one of this month hifi mag, certainly worth a look.

[Idlewithnodrive]

The 2M Black is superb but the total anal faff of set up led me to sell mine, twice.

The AN IQ3 is 99% as good as the Black, without the faff and a bit more as you are looking for in the mids.

A bit of an off the wall suggestion, an ADC with a PSX-40 stylus. Sounds really really great to these ears.

[Dickchy]

Folks I’m looking for a MM recommendation to complement, or perhaps provide a contrast to my AT33EV

I do like the AT33EV but sometimes I wish for something with a slightly more ‘meaty’ midrange and bass.

As I have a Jelco 750 with detachable headshell I don’t see why I can’t have both!

Budget is flexible up to about £400

Hi Twelvebears, I am selling a Linn Adikt with fewer than 100 hours on it. I used it in an Akito and found the bass good but moved to moving coil recently. Was keeping it as a spare but seems a waste. Asking £210 posted so in budget.PM me if you are interested.

[Mike Reed]

This thread is of academic (at present) interest to me as I've mounted an old VMS 20E mark 2 which I've had lying around for yonks. Quite amazed at the performance, compared to the Koetsus, Benzes, Transfig's and Lyras I've been used to. It's also in a 14/15 gramme mass 12" unipivot which can't make for good synergy.

[Jac Hawk]

This thread is of academic (at present) interest to me as I've mounted an old VMS 20E mark 2 which I've had lying around for yonks. Quite amazed at the performance, compared to the Koetsus, Benzes, Transfig's and Lyras I've been used to. It's also in a 14/15 gramme mass 12" unipivot which can't make for good synergy.

Have a look on ebay for a VMS30 Mk2 stylus the bodies are the same on to 20 and 30 and you will see an improvement in sound.

[Kvaal]

I think there's an article in one of this month hifi mag, certainly worth a look.

Which magazine? Can i find it om the net?

[paulf-2007]

Technics EPC 205 is supposed to be the best. Then you have the rest of the family. EPC 206, EPC 207 and EPC 270c. They are not in production any more, but can be found as used. I have the EPC 207 and EPC 270c. I am happy with both, but happiest with the 207 on my Lenco L75. They fit the arm,, and my ears very well.
Why would you want to go putting ideas like that in my head, got me thinking about a technics cart now. What compliance are they, I use a stax 12" arm.

[Kvaal]

Compliance at 10 for the epc270c, and 8 for the 205, 206 and 207. Suites medium to high mass arms very well.

The 270 is made by Nagaoka. I believe the others to be Nagaokas as well.

Nagaoka have the importer in Netherlands:
Pickupnaald.nl

[Wakefield Turntables]

Which magazine? Can i find it om the net?

HIFI NEWS

[Kvaal]

Great! Thank you!

[twelvebears]

Thanks for all the suggestions folks, you’ given me a few good options to consider and it’s always nice to have personal experience over views of journalists!

[vicdiaz]

Hi,

Audio Technica just released this:

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/news/649fd35764071bee/index.html

[struth]

If you can find one then a B&O sp1 is superb

[CageyH]

Technics EPC 205 is supposed to be the best. Then you have the rest of the family. EPC 206, EPC 207 and EPC 270c. They are not in production any more, but can be found as used. I have the EPC 207 and EPC 270c. I am happy with both, but happiest with the 207 on my Lenco L75. They fit the arm,, and my ears very well.

The 205 MkIII or IV, but I doubt you will find one with a working stylus. The Jico neo SAS is very good on a Mk III.

[karma67]

if any use the TTDD damping then avoid,it such a shame,i used the 305mc and although NOS the suspension went soft,it was a brilliant cartridge.

[Barry]

If you can find one then a B&O sp1 is superb

I'm not au fait with current fixed-coil cartridges; my experience of them is limited to those made in the 70's: ADC, AKG, B&O, Grado and Shure.

I loved the B&O SP6, SP10/12, especially the MMC series. They all had a high compliance, so are not necessarily compatible with many of today's arms.

[Chivas]

The 2M Black is superb but the total anal faff of set up led me to sell mine, twice.

The AN IQ3 is 99% as good as the Black, without the faff and a bit more as you are looking for in the mids.

A bit of an off the wall suggestion, an ADC with a PSX-40 stylus. Sounds really really great to these ears.

In my experience the IQ3 is about 150% (figuratively speaking) better than the 2M Black. Or a Goldring 1042 if you fancy a new cart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Floyddroid]

Have a look on ebay for a VMS30 Mk2 stylus the bodies are the same on to 20 and 30 and you will see an improvement in sound.

Heard a VMS20 or 30 at the last NEBO meet and it blew me socks off. Highly musical sound mounted in a Rega TT.

[anubisgrau]

a very decent shelter 201 is currently 12,000 yen from soundheights.co.jp, a reputed seller. that's under 80 quid at the moment, hard to beat. has a bit of rich and warm mids and not a big HF extension, but for money, it's pretty much a no brainer. a shame it costs 3x more in europe, if you find one.

info@soundheights.co.jp is email addy

[walpurgis]

Aren't those related to the Sumiko MM's?

[Kvaal]

Aren't those related to the Sumiko MM's?

That's right. They come from the Excel ES-700 - family. You can have the cheapest ES-700 for less than 50£, and put on a better stylus. Then you have a great cart!

[Jac Hawk]

Heard a VMS20 or 30 at the last NEBO meet and it blew me socks off. Highly musical sound mounted in a Rega TT.

That would be my VMS30 Mk2 Steve, they were the flagship Ortofon MM back in the day and easily hold their own against the 2M Black in my opinion, the pity is that original replacement stylus aren't available anymore, so when mine is worn unless i can get a nos i'll be forced to look at a newer model

[anubisgrau]

That's right. They come from the Excel ES-700 - family. You can have the cheapest ES-700 for less than 50£, and put on a better stylus. Then you have a great cart!


Correct, just as many other Excel Sound Corporation produced MMs in last 30 years, like Sumiko, A&R, Garrott etc etc.... Mind that stylus are not always interchangeable and you will need to hack them, but it shouldn't be a big work if you have a bit of tools and a good magnifier...

[walpurgis]

I bought an Excel MM new a few years ago. Can't recall the model, but it wasn't the ES-700. It was a damn good sounding cartridge, one of the few MM's to come close to my ADC's.

[montesquieu]

a very decent shelter 201 is currently 12,000 yen from soundheights.co.jp, a reputed seller. that's under 80 quid at the moment, hard to beat. has a bit of rich and warm mids and not a big HF extension, but for money, it's pretty much a no brainer. a shame it costs 3x more in europe, if you find one.

info@soundheights.co.jp is email addy

New outfit for me Gordan, some juicy stuff there thanks for the tip.

[oldius]

The VMS30 is a fantastic cartridge and is really a 2M Black.

The best I heard was an ADC ZLM. Bloody hell that was good. In fact, I still have it as a back up. If only I had an arm that it suited!

[Kvaal]

I bought an Excel MM new a few years ago. Can't recall the model, but it wasn't the ES-700. It was a damn good sounding cartridge, one of the few MM's to come close to my ADC's.

Probably the ES-70.

[wumpling]

Haven't read the whole thread but don't dismiss whichever Nagaoka fits your budget. Mp300 probably, but been a fan since the mp50 back at the beginning of th 80s. They've got more expensive over the years but still worth a look.

[LoriNagle]

Hello....I locate that more established records appear to sound better with a MM set-up, yet it's actually a matter of taste. The moving magnet cartridges are less "breezy" than moving curl plans which likewise implies that they are less inclined to replicate surface commotion. I locate that "breezy" nature of moving loop plans to be less practical than an appropriately set-up Shure cartridge. Once more, there's framework cooperative energy to consider. Now and again what a phono playback framework requires is not so much detail but rather more of the general gestalt of the exhibition.

[Chris]

I use my old A&RP77, retipped with a Shure Hyper Elliptical tip in my Ittok LVIII. Also my retipper mate has played with the magnet and the suspension to max out the output into my valve phono. He believes there is a magic G point in MM cartridges, too and they´re all different as well, you just have to search for it. I have just had a second virtually unused P77 retipped so I´m set up for good. By the way, he asked me if he could keep the Weiss Paroc original tip from the P77 ´cos he was going to fit it to his own Koetsu - a much better match, he assured me. I´m not complaining. My Esco Troika is in its box along with my Hagerman head amp. Less air and fewer stereo surprises maybe but more meat to it and big, big wall of sound effect which goes down well with this far from pristine lug of mine (Yes, that´s singular, I´m afraid).

[speedyj]

Any advice on a cartridge to go with a clearaudio on my new Marantz TT-15S1 when it arrives. The Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood MM Cart is supposed to be very good so I'll obviously try that first and give it some time. Interested to see how it stacks up against the Ortofon Quintet Bronze on my Project Perspex 6 SB.

My Big Bottle Phonostage does not have MM facility as far as I'm aware so that may have to change.

Any advice appreciated chaps.

I'm off on a bit of a voyage of discovery again. Let the fun begin.

[CageyH]

Is the Virtuoso V2 stll AT95 based?

[AJSki2fly]

Try one of these, I have one and am very impressed, lots of detail, bass and mids are very good, I am comparing it to a Benz Micro LP-S MC and the difference in detail and soundstage between to two is actually not that great.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Goldring-GL2500-Moving-Magnet-Cartridge/dp/B008BILNOA/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=goldring+2500&qid=1602167515&sr=8-3

[speedyj]

Is the Virtuoso V2 stll AT95 based?

Yes it is. I've been reading a bit and its an interesting cartridge with humble roots. I will try it and see what I think. I'm sure it will be a keeper as I'd like to build a small collection of carts going forward.

[CageyH]

Yes it is. I've been reading a bit and its an interesting cartridge with humble roots. I will try it and see what I think. I'm sure it will be a keeper as I'd like to build a small collection of carts going forward.

If you are buying new, then I would suggest you try the AT VM95ML or SA. It will probably get very close to the ClearAudio at a fraction of the cost.

[Mikeandvan]

I use my old A&RP77, retipped with a Shure Hyper Elliptical tip in my Ittok LVIII. Also my retipper mate has played with the magnet and the suspension to max out the output into my valve phono. He believes there is a magic G point in MM cartridges, too and they´re all different as well, you just have to search for it. I have just had a second virtually unused P77 retipped so I´m set up for good. By the way, he asked me if he could keep the Weiss Paroc original tip from the P77 ´cos he was going to fit it to his own Koetsu - a much better match, he assured me. I´m not complaining. My Esco Troika is in its box along with my Hagerman head amp. Less air and fewer stereo surprises maybe but more meat to it and big, big wall of sound effect which goes down well with this far from pristine lug of mine (Yes, that´s singular, I´m afraid).

I just bought one of these with along with a Mayware tonearm, came with a spare stylus too.

[speedyj]

Any advice on a cartridge to go with a clearaudio on my new Marantz TT-15S1 when it arrives. The Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood MM Cart is supposed to be very good so I'll obviously try that first and give it some time. Interested to see how it stacks up against the Ortofon Quintet Bronze on my Project Perspex 6 SB.

My Big Bottle Phonostage does not have MM facility as far as I'm aware so that may have to change.

Any advice appreciated chaps.

I'm off on a bit of a voyage of discovery again. Let the fun begin.

Well that all changed quickly. The supplier contacted me to say they could not guarantee a delivery date due to COVID and it would be a month at the earliest but not definite.

Had a think and cancelled as that is just too wishy washy for me.

Then found a Technics SL150 for a good price so decided to give that a whirl. It will definitely enable me to try different carts with the SME3009 arm thats fitted.

I've also never tried a direct drive deck before amzingly so that will be interesting. I might even keep the Project Perspex 6 SB and run a belt drive and a direct for a while.

No cart on the Technics so thats the next decision to make.

I also only have a MC facility on my Big Bottle Phonostage so thats aanother thing to ponder. Do I get another phono stage or do I go MC on the Technics.

Decisions, decisions.

[Mikeandvan]

Well that all changed quickly. The supplier contacted me to say they could not guarantee a delivery date due to COVID and it would be a month at the earliest but not definite.

Had a think and cancelled as that is just too wishy washy for me.

Then found a Technics SL150 for a good price so decided to give that a whirl. It will definitely enable me to try different carts with the SME3009 arm thats fitted.

I've also never tried a direct drive deck before amzingly so that will be interesting. I might even keep the Project Perspex 6 SB and run a belt drive and a direct for a while.

No cart on the Technics so thats the next decision to make.

I also only have a MC facility on my Big Bottle Phonostage so thats aanother thing to ponder. Do I get another phono stage or do I go MC on the Technics.

Decisions, decisions.
Just get a Trichord Dino, if your TT/arm isn't too 'high spend' then like mine, I'm sure it will suffice, obvs the Dino can be used with both mm/mc carts.

[kininigin]

Folks I’m looking for a MM recommendation to complement, or perhaps provide a contrast to my AT33EV

I do like the AT33EV but sometimes I wish for something with a slightly more ‘meaty’ midrange and bass.

As I have a Jelco 750 with detachable headshell I don’t see why I can’t have both!

Budget is flexible up to about £400

If you want "meaty" then you should definitely consider a Shure SC35C with a nos stylus. Throw in a heavier counterweight and appropriate headshell, you will have plenty of change left over from £400 and a very good cart which would be difficult to beat for the money imo.

[WESTLOWER]

I have a American Shure SC35C not a Mexican !!!
that I may let go. Has an original spare stylus too