View Full Version : They Paved Paradise
And put up a parking lot, said Joni Mitchell back in 1970. Of course, as Alan Partridge famously noted, Mitchell had forgotten to consider that the parking lot would have eased congestion on the outskirts of paradise. Although in fairness to her it was early days and it would be another nineteen years before Chris Rea would significantly raise awareness of transportation issues via the medium of music.
Anyway, here's a link to an interesting article about how parking lots take up an enormous amount of space in some place called 'America'. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/07/parking-has-eaten-american-cities/565715/
Crackles
08-08-2018, 05:13
Enjoyed that, cheers. I think life would be generally improved if we all drove less.
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Minstrel SE
08-08-2018, 05:44
Well yes and there seems to be no effective transport policy other than selling cars because people want them. So pile cars on to a road network that cant cope...the road to hell
Wheres electric in significant numbers.... wheres hydrogen?...F that...... just keep piling oil driven vehicles onto crowded roads
Oh and build HS2 because the brown envelopes are flowing and people will be on £100,000 plus a year...always look for the true motive with government.
ianlenco
08-08-2018, 09:09
Firstly I better declare that I do care about the planet's future but, like most others, I do next to nothing about it.
Of course Joni Mitchell uses parking lots as a metaphor for what we are doing to our planet, it isn't just about transport policy. As a school child back in the sixties I was keen on nature and biology but had never really thought about "the environment" until we were shown a film based on Rachel Carson's Silent Spring. That was a real eye opener and was probably the main reason I studied biology majoring in Ecology in the early 70's. At that time The Club of Rome published the Limits to Growth (ironically sponsored by the Volkswagon Foundation) which set out how population growth, demand for resources and other factors would eventually lead to catastrophe. Much of establishment science poo pooed both books but Carson's eventually led to the banning of persistent pesticides such as DDT and it's been shown that the Limits to Growth predictions were actually pretty accurate for the 30 years since its publication.
Then we had the Gaia hypothesis, OK, not strictly good science but it made a lot of sense to me. If the human population doesn't stress the planet too much things will stay more or less in balance but if we overdo our demands the planet won't be able to self regulate.
Sort of leads us to global warming doesn't it? Plenty of people have denied its existence but the evidence is stacking up. This summer's global temperature records might just be natural variation but probably because of it the Stockholm Resilience Centre's recent report has made the news. Basically this says that we don't have to heat the Earth too much more before we bust the system - Gaia.
It's really self evident. As an example, global warming (whatever its cause) is leading to the melting of ice at the poles and on mountains. Ice reflects the sun's rays back into space, the less you have of it the less heat is reflected away from the planet so the planet heats up more leading to more ice melting........positive feedback is not a good thing! We might just be getting close to busting the planet's ability to self-regulate.
local jobs for local people...there's nothing for you here;)
Minstrel SE
08-08-2018, 12:43
An exponential rise in the Human population since the 18th century is the main issue. In terms of the lifetime of the planet that is a huge rise in a short timespan.
Thats the problem and its pushed the planet into a new geological epoch.
We need to drastically reduce the number of cars on the road but as long as certain models and a certain manner of driving are known to increase penis size by 50 per cent (not in my case obviously, that would be stretching things too far!) and a trip on a bus is tantamount to penilectomy that is just not going to happen I fear.
Lots of reasons for it. But sure we can assist or slow its growth depending on global will, which unfortunately there is very little
And put up a parking lot, said Joni Mitchell back in 1970. Of course, as Alan Partridge famously noted, Mitchell had forgotten to consider that the parking lot would have eased congestion on the outskirts of paradise. Although in fairness to her it was early days and it would be another nineteen years before Chris Rea would significantly raise awareness of transportation issues via the medium of music.
Anyway, here's a link to an interesting article about how parking lots take up an enormous amount of space in some place called 'America'. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/07/parking-has-eaten-american-cities/565715/
Bit of trivia, that song came about when Mitchell flew into Hawaii late at night and booked into her hotel. Next morning she threw open the curtains for her first view of the islands and, to roughly quote her "There was a parking lot as far as the eye could see"
I thought cities were built on rock ‘n roll...
Bit of trivia, that song came about when Mitchell flew into Hawaii late at night and booked into her hotel. Next morning she threw open the curtains for her first view of the islands and, to roughly quote her "There was a parking lot as far as the eye could see"
Well she sure capitalised on it, that song must have earned her a few thousand bucks, if not millions!
Pigmy Pony
08-08-2018, 17:31
No that was just a skewed view by someone who'd fried her brains chasing rabbits in the sixties...
Well she sure capitalised on it, that song must have earned her a few thousand bucks, if not millions!
Not from me, don't even have Ladies Of The Canyon. Blue was her masterwork IMO. There was magic in the air when they made that one. And nowdays people think Adele is good.
Not from me, don't even have Ladies Of The Canyon. Blue was her masterwork IMO. There was magic in the air when they made that one. And nowadays people think Adele is good.
There's no accounting for taste.
There's no accounting for taste.
I don't know. It just seems to me that today it is all contrived whereas back then it was just the outpourings of really talented people and the difference is pretty marked to me.
walpurgis
08-08-2018, 20:26
I don't know. It just seems to me that today it is all contrived whereas back then it was just the outpourings of really talented people and the difference is pretty marked to me.
Too bloody true!
There's plenty talent it's just not getting picked up. The studios prefer their trusted formula music guaranteed to make money.
The fact it's pish is down to general public being prepared to accept the shite
I think you need the right times, the right culture and the right attitude. When they all come together you get great new music. They haven't come together for a long time now and it might never happen again.
Pigmy Pony
08-08-2018, 20:41
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter...
There really isn't much quality in the mainstream these days, Max Bygraves must be turning in his grave.
walpurgis
08-08-2018, 20:50
You can't polish a turd
Oh yes you can :)! They did it on 'Mythbusters'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI
mightymonoped
08-08-2018, 20:53
Gah! You’re just a bunch of grumpy old farts! [emoji13]
There’s always something new and good going on. If you don’t want to find it, you’ll succeed every time! [emoji23]
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Pigmy Pony
08-08-2018, 21:06
We know this, we just like a bit of a moan sometimes. Every day.
mightymonoped
08-08-2018, 21:08
We know this, we just like a bit of a moan sometimes. Every day.
[emoji23]
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Pigmy Pony
08-08-2018, 21:08
Oh yes you can :)! They did it on 'Mythbusters'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI
I know, I saw that one. Didn't look like a regular turd though. They'd struggle to do that with one of mine.
walpurgis
08-08-2018, 21:10
Yeah. They'd probably just end up going through the motions.
Pigmy Pony
08-08-2018, 21:17
Yeah. They'd probably just end up going through the motions.
:lol: The old ones are the best!
I don't know. It just seems to me that today it is all contrived whereas back then it was just the outpourings of really talented people and the difference is pretty marked to me.
And couldn't Joni outpour! She could outpour for Canada and the US... Before I get torced by the rest of the forum I do rate her as one of the most (.if not the most) musically talented artists of the 60/70's but she did go on a bit. I have most of her early albums and I had to stop listening to them for a while as they just made me morose; more ose than normal anyway. Her later stuff was much weaker I thought jumping on bandwagons left right and centre. Feel sorry for her now, she's in a poor way.
She can be too much in large doses man. But that really is the strength of it. Talented producer too.
We know this, we just like a bit of a moan sometimes. Every day.
As Joe Walsh put it: I can't complain/But sometimes I still do.'
Or, as Nigel Blackwell of HMHB put it: 'Friday night and I just love complaining/And no, I haven't got anything better to do,'
There really isn't much quality in the mainstream these days, Max Bygraves must be turning in his grave.
Was Joni Mitchell ever mainstream and has there ever been high quality in mainstream music? (agree about Blue too Martin).
I just spent the weekend at Cambridge Folk Festival and was astounded by the quality of the music - highlights were Patti Smith, Eric Bibb, Rhiannon Giddens, Rosanne Cash, John Prine, Robert Vincent, Yola Carter, Birds of Chicago, Bella Collins and so, so many more. None of those are mainstream . . . it's all out there, you just have to find it.
Oh, I don't think Adele is all that either, just in case anyone was wondering ;)
Patti Smith 'Horses' I still play sometimes, that is arguably up there with 'Blue'. But her later stuff doesn't do it for me. Eric Bibb is just too tame. It's lovely stuff but not up there with the gods. That's the sort of music I'm talking about, The transcendent stuff. Every generation had at least some, now we are in a desert.
Patti knocked it out of the park Martin, ranting at the photographers and "turn that fucking smoke off, I'm not Metallica" just in case anyone forgot that she's a badass. I loved it and still no slouch at 71!
We all sang G L O R I A and went home smiling :)
I'm off to play Blue now . . .
walpurgis
08-08-2018, 22:26
Patti Smith is brilliant, one of my favourites. A real rock 'n roller! 'Persuasion' is an ace track. Hard hitting and guitar that can tear holes in the fabric of time!!
Here, if anybody wants a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHFUAmZ51_Q
And couldn't Joni outpour! She could outpour for Canada and the US... Before I get torced by the rest of the forum I do rate her as one of the most (.if not the most) musically talented artists of the 60/70's but she did go on a bit. I have most of her early albums and I had to stop listening to them for a while as they just made me morose; more ose than normal anyway. Her later stuff was much weaker I thought jumping on bandwagons left right and centre. Feel sorry for her now, she's in a poor way.
I disagree - I don't find her morose at all. Her word-craft is brilliant; matched only IMO by that of Suzanne Vega. I have most of Joni's recordings: all of her early recordings, up to and including 'Blue', and I love them all. Started to loose interest when she flirted with jazz-style singing, for example 'Mingus'.
Sadly a lifetime of heavy smoking has taken its toll - she's lost the top two octaves.
I disagree - I don't find her morose at all. Her word-craft is brilliant; matched only IMO by that of Suzanne Vega. I have most of Joni's recordings: all of her early recordings, up to and including 'Blue', and I love them all. Started to loose interest when she flirted with jazz-style singing, for example 'Mingus'.
Sadly a lifetime of heavy smoking has taken its toll - she's lost the top two octaves.
Joni uses jazz-style singing and jazz musicians on many records in my view, Hissing..., Hejira and Court and Spark notably and for me it adds greatly to their appeal. I agree about Mingus though, couldn't find much to like about that particular use of jazz, despite a few serious attempts.
Crackles
09-08-2018, 04:42
Patti knocked it out of the park Martin, ranting at the photographers and "turn that fucking smoke off, I'm not Metallica" just in case anyone forgot that she's a badass. I loved it and still no slouch at 71!
We all sang G L O R I A and went home smiling :)
I'm off to play Blue now . . .Agree she still looks cool on stage. Just has that 'don't care what you think' scruffiness about her and carries it off well.
I found it interesting reading her memoir that she only stumbled into music in her twenties, she was much more into art and poetry growing up.
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Pigmy Pony
09-08-2018, 18:41
Please don't beat me, but Patti Smith pretty much passed me by. Only song that comes to mind is 'Because the Night'. What would be a good introduction to her stuff?
Please don't beat me, but Patti Smith pretty much passed me by. Only song that comes to mind is 'Because the Night'. What would be a good introduction to her stuff?
'Horses' is the one. I don't think anyone will argue that is not her best. Later stuff is more 'eclectic'.
Pigmy Pony
09-08-2018, 19:27
You know, I may have seen her do that on a BBC four compilation of OGWT performances. I may also have seen an album somewhere called 'Easter'. That's it. All I know.
You know, I may have seen her do that on a BBC four compilation of OGWT performances. I may also have seen an album somewhere called 'Easter'. That's it. All I know.
Don't you have the 'streaming'? Otherwise just order the CD off of Amazon. you won't think you've wasted your money unless I've misread you and you don't like music that has some real balls to it?
Pigmy Pony
09-08-2018, 20:12
Alexa is sulking right now. Every time I talk to it, I just get a red ring showing. I'll have to get the expert to sort it (Mrs. Pony). I like music with some balls, and no doubt Ms. Smith has some, to go with the hairy armpits. :) I will report back when I've given it a listen.
Just reboot the bitch.
Alexa I mean of course
Pigmy Pony
09-08-2018, 20:17
Call me paranoid but I'm afraid Alexa may have read your last post through the magic of tinternet.
You never saw that in Star Trek though did you? Where he goes up to the replicator 'Do us a cup of tea' and nothing happens, there's just a red ring. Some old bird has to come and tell him 'It's knackered that is love, see that red ring? You'll get nowt out of that love. You'll have to find another one what's working.'
walpurgis
09-08-2018, 20:21
Alexa has direct links to MI5 and other shadier groups in 'security services' (you think I'm kidding of course......or do you?).
Call me paranoid but I'm afraid Alexa may have read your last post through the magic of tinternet.
It's recording everything man. It's recording your thoughts, probably. The best thing that you can do with it is sling it out the window.
Let's see if she picks up on that. She most likely isn't broken she is just lying low like the terminator in 'The Terminator'.
Pigmy Pony
09-08-2018, 20:29
No, and I'm not worried that she is listening in, she's too much of a lady, and she is always so pleasant, so helpful and is probably really good looking. And I don't mean that in a sexist way, oh no, And I'm going to buy her a nice cushion to sit on. :)
You know, I may have seen her do that on a BBC four compilation of OGWT performances. I may also have seen an album somewhere called 'Easter'. That's it. All I know.
Easter is my favourite Patti Smith album, mainly for 'Because the Night' and the way 'Babelogue' segues into 'Rock and Roll Nigger'; but Horses would be a good place to start. Give Radio Ethiopia a miss, it's PS's weakest album IMO.
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