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Spectral Morn
03-04-2010, 21:34
Part One of a number of AOS Show Report Specials.



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One thing I was both looking forward to but also dreading was visiting the Sound Hi Fi stand at the London Show. “Why ?” you might well ask. The answer is simple, I would probably get to hear a fully Sound HiFi modified Technics 1210 turntable. Your next question would probably be “So why is that a problem ?” Well its a problem on a number of levels, let me explain;this turntable easily embodies a number of very hot points of argument on forums and in the general audiophile community. Are direct drive turntables better than belt drives? and can the Technics 1210 after all a “DJ deck”be any good anyway ?

I feel I have an open mind and I don't damn a thing until I have at least tried it but I was, if I am honest, a bit prejudiced towards the Technics and thus out of step (not that there is an AOS party line) with the thoughts and experiences of my fellow AOS admin and general membership who use a Technics 1210. Lets be honest here, some pretty startling claims have been made for it, most of which I struggled to accept.Many of these claims also made me feel uncomfortable in my choice of turntables and I have at times felt this quite keenly, being a user of fairly expensive upmarket belt drive turntables, namely an Oracle Delphi and SME Model 20. The idea that a cheap upstart direct drive turntable could be as good or better was frankly a shocking thought. Years of hearing direct drive was bad, had sunk in, thus forming one of my accepted pillars of wisdom. To face this head on would be uncomfortable at best and if my listening experience proved that everything stated for the Technics was correct...well this for sure, would have the result of upsetting all those previously accepted turntable pillars of wisdom. Could I face the possibility of having them all come crashing down?

I was now going to have a listen and finally have my prejudice challenged head on, after all I could hardly come all this way and not do that. However an additional concern kept nagging at me and that was if after listening I just didn't get it, where would that leave me? Lets see shall we.....

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The Sound HiFi stall was located in the Market Place area of the Blue Conference Centre and both Dave Cawley owner of Sound HiFi and the direct drive (distributor, designer and manufacturer) behind the mechanical and electronic upgrades to the Technics turntable was in attendance as was Alex Nikitin. Alex is a highly regarded electronic designer, with his own brand of electronics, ANT Audio (distributed by Sound HiFi) but also somewhat of an expert on cassette decks. One of his tweaked Technics tape decks was being used on the stall during both of my I visits to it. Both Dave and Alex are also members of the Art of Sound forum and are valuable community contributors.

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When I arrived there was quite a bit of activity around the stall ( I later learn t these were fellow AOS members)and after a lull developed I introduced myself to Dave and Alex. I had a good look at the items on display which included a fully Sound HiFied Technics and various items of ANT Audio electronics. It became clear that Dave and Alex had set up a headphone comparison demo using ANT Audio Amber headphone amplifiers and Denon Ah-D7000 headphones. Two amplifiers were being used one talking a feed from the Technics 1210 the other from the afore mentioned Technics cassette deck. The ANT Audio Kora phono stage was being used to amplify the signal from an Audio Technica moving coil cartridge and MAD silver cables were transferring signals among the various electronics.

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Alex invited me to have a listen which I did and to my pleasure and surprise Coal Train by Hugh Masekela was being used, in the form of 12 inch 45rpm vinyl copy of his album Hope and a high quality cassette tape recording taken from the same album. Any of you who know me well, will remember I use this track off the Dali Demo CD a lot for review purposes; so I know it inside and out.

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The sound was open detailed and very stable. Pitch and note definition was excellent as was imaging and sound staging. Dave said a bit later, that he thought that the soundstage was perhaps too wide screen. It was very wide indeed but had good depth and instrument focus. Its hard to say what was doing what here, as I am not familiar with any of the items that made up the demo systems. Indeed I would need these items for a longer period, for a more formal review to get to the bottom of that but based on a two minute listen I was very impressed. The most obvious thing was the stability of the sound and even through headphones this was immediately clear. Listening to the same track through the Technics tape deck was very interesting. It lacked many of the qualities of the turntable but still managed a very credible performance. It was not as open or detailed, indeed a bit rolled off on the top and lacking the rock solid speed stability of the 1210 but it is the best I have heard tape through headphones as long as I can remember. This is quite an achievement for an old analogue technology, that many feel was and is crap...fit only for Dictaphone use. While there Alex tried to get a few people to have a listen and they refused...their loss.

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I had read about the wonders Alex can create in classic cassette decks, by both improving selected internal components and recalibration and I had wondered just how much can be achieved well by this showing I would have to say quite a bit.

Also on display was the new bearing assembly for the Technics 1210 and a standard one, for comparison. There was a massive difference in weight, fit and quality between the two with the Mike New bearing available exclusively in the UK from Sound HiFi; being vastly superior to the stock item.

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My visit to the Sound HiFi stand was one of those special moments on a number of levels. Firstly It was very nice meeting Dave and Alex and I really enjoyed my sadly brief chat with both of them. It was evident even from that brief conversation that both guys are very knowledgeable and passionate in what they are doing. Secondly to hear Alex's electronics, Mad cables and both Technics sources was also very special.

As a demo set up things were very well matched to my ears but if I am honest, only by separating the various bits out in a more controlled way, can I state what elements were contributing to what. However even among unfamiliarity, the foundational element of the Technics 1210's contribution was very obvious to me; as I could hear many things its supporters have claimed for it. However the only thing which marred the sound occasionally was a degree of microphony which was bleeding through from occasional thumps to the table top.

I have had my curiosity further fed about trying a full blown Sound HiFi Technics 1210. Indeed Dave and I both wondered how it would sound with a Graham Phantom B44.1 arm fitted rather than a SME or Jeleco arm (as was fitted to the one on demo). I am even by this brief exposure to this 1210 convinced that there is much in what is stated for it (both on AOS and elsewhere) as a design and what can be further squeezed out of it via Time Step power supply and the other modifications/updates. So on that basis I do want to explore this further in the future. My pillars are very badly cracked by this listening experience but only time will tell if they end up being smashed....as they say watch this space.



For more info visit http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/index.htm


Regards D S D L

Text and photos copyright Adventures in High Fidelity Audio 2010.

Marco
04-04-2010, 07:18
Nice write-up, Neil. I'm glad you've had a chance now to listen to the Techy, albeit not through external speakers....

It seems though that you 'get' what we like about it :)

What you really need to do now is visit one of us who owns a fully tricked-out version (similar to the one of Dave C's) and hear it properly out with of show conditions with a variety of music you're familiar with.

I look forward to the rest of your reports in due course :cool:

Meanwhile, regarding one of the pics you posted:


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9357/londonhifishowmarch27th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/londonhifishowmarch27th.jpg/)

...for people's information, that's Barry J Hunt on the left, with the red scarf, and next to him (on the right) is Steve (Twelvebears) and Martin T :)

Marco.

Spectral Morn
04-04-2010, 08:26
Hi Marco


A crap :doh:.....:( I knew who Barry was having met him earlier but I did not realise Martin and Steve where standing there. Guys I was the gent in a linen jacket, with long pony tail and grey beard taking photos. I am really sorry I would have loved to chat.

Yes Marco I need to get hold of a Technics.


Regards D S D L

Dave Cawley
04-04-2010, 10:21
If you add us all up, there were 6 AOS members all at the same time. And many more throughout the day!

Next year we will have a table to sit and chat, and maybe a small colored badge to identify AOS members?

Regards

Dave

chris@panteg
04-04-2010, 10:34
Duplicate post sorry '

chris@panteg
04-04-2010, 10:35
Superb write up Neil

You are dead right about the microphony breakthrough ' this is a downside to any solid non suspended deck i believe ? so it does still need some careful siting and isolation .

Marco's many tiered Mana support could be as good as anything for the 1210.

Oh and i have ordered the Hugh Masekela CD ' its marvelous .

The Vinyl Adventure
04-04-2010, 10:36
No no no, I got a better idea!!!
Secret handshake!!! That would be soooo cooool!!
I really must get my butt to one of these events I think ... Il be the guy there that's below 50 so il be easy to recognise :lolsign:
great write up neil! (are you feeling any better?)

DSJR
04-04-2010, 10:41
I really must get my butt to one of these events I think ... Il be the guy there that's below 50 so il be easy to recognise :lolsign:
great write up neil! (are you feeling any better?)

Just rub it in, why don't you.....

The Vinyl Adventure
04-04-2010, 10:58
oh i shall... i might not know as much about hifi as you lot.... but i can still run up the stairs without fear of heart attack... and i can do up my shoe lases without the need for a chiropractor :lol:

Marco
04-04-2010, 11:08
Hi Chris,


Marco's many tiered Mana support could be as good as anything for the 1210.


Yes it makes a massive difference (as indeed it should!) I can turn the volume up full on my preamp with the stylus placed on the record, knock hard on the top of the T/T, and only hear the faintest of taps through the speakers...

If you think my Techy sounded good at Scalford Hall, trust me, it was probably only performing at around 75% of what I get at home ;)

Hamish,


I really must get my butt to one of these events I think ... Il be the guy there that's below 50 so il be easy to recognise


Haha... You tell the fogies, matey! :lol: ;)

There are a few of us here who come under that age demographic, but you would sneak into the 'under 30s', as you're but a babe :eyebrows:

Marco.

chris@panteg
04-04-2010, 11:15
Hi Chris,



Yes it makes a massive difference (as indeed it should!) I can turn the volume up full on my preamp with the stylus placed on the record, knock hard on the top of the T/T, and only hear the faintest of taps through the speakers...

If you think my Techy sounded good at Scalford Hall, trust me, it was probably only performing at around 75% of what I get at home ;)



Marco.

Hi Marco

You know what ' i don't doubt that for a second ' i don't want to say too much just yet about my latest upgrade , but been listening to it this morning .

Its a different ball game :).

Marco
04-04-2010, 11:24
Nice one, Chris - I'm pleased for ya :) So the SME is hitting the spot, then?

I know exactly what you mean - it's only when upgrading the Techy arm (even when it's been fully modified), as decent as it sounds, that you realise how far it is behind an SME or one of the Jelcos.

Marco.

chris@panteg
04-04-2010, 11:30
Marco

It was so very nearly the 750 ' a beautiful arm and i do believe i would have been just as happy ' but decadence took a hold on me i got the SME .

listening to the 750 at the London show ' was a joy and i would urge anyone with an inkling to give it some serious thought .

I am a little surprised at myself ' because i don't think i need to make any adjustments ? not wanting to put myself down but i am novice or Noob at this .

DSJR
04-04-2010, 11:57
So, what's the difference between the mk2 Techie arm and mk5 arm, and is it audible?

chris@panteg
04-04-2010, 12:06
Hi Dave

AFAIK its the internal wiring OFC and Tonearm leads again OFC , though with the MK2 you can easily upgrade these ' as for the Titanium finish ' i don't know if its just cosmetic or not ? .

DSJR
04-04-2010, 12:12
How much "non-we" interest was there for the Techie, or is audiophool fandom completely against the "DJ deck?"

Their loss IMO......

Spectral Morn
04-04-2010, 16:51
No no no, I got a better idea!!!
Secret handshake!!! That would be soooo cooool!!
I really must get my butt to one of these events I think ... Il be the guy there that's below 50 so il be easy to recognise :lolsign:
great write up neil! (are you feeling any better?)

I can get up for about an hour or so now but must go back to bed otherwise I start to feel really crap again.


Regards D S D L

The Vinyl Adventure
04-04-2010, 17:16
No good mate, well hope it goes away soon!!

MartinT
05-04-2010, 22:29
I did not realise Martin and Steve where standing there

Sorry Neil, I too did not know that you were there. Would have introduced myself for sure.

P.S. the new Doctor Who was rather fun, wasn't he? Of course, being your sworn enemy and all that...

MartinT
05-04-2010, 22:36
By the way, guys, we really *must* wear badges for the next show. We were all ships passing in the night at that show, makes me laugh. I remember now seeing Neil taking photos in another room and I must have passed Steve (Snoopdog) at least four times (but at least I know him).

Oh, and Dave I perfectly understand your refusing a beer in the afternoon but I promise I'll buy you one sometime.

Also, I want a shootout between those outrageous sorbothane feet your Techie was sporting and Isonoes.

Dave Cawley
06-04-2010, 07:23
those outrageous sorbothane feet cool weren't they!!

It needs to be something like a blue spot on our collar, not something that says AOS? We could collect them from my stand or somewhere else nominated. I believe there were even more AOS members than we knew too!

Regards

Dave

Spectral Morn
06-04-2010, 09:01
By the way, guys, we really *must* wear badges for the next show. We were all ships passing in the night at that show, makes me laugh. I remember now seeing Neil taking photos in another room and I must have passed Steve (Snoopdog) at least four times (but at least I know him).

Oh, and Dave I perfectly understand your refusing a beer in the afternoon but I promise I'll buy you one sometime.

Also, I want a shootout between those outrageous sorbothane feet your Techie was sporting and Isonoes.

I was wearing a badge but the writing was a wee bit small. It didn't say AOS though.

When it was pointed out by Marco who was standing in that first photo I took....well frankly I felt very disappointed not to have been able to say hello.

As I roamed around the show, I did wonder who I was passing in the halls and getting in front (I did say sorry while I was doing this) of while taking photos in the various rooms.

There's always next time.

Hi Martin

I quite liked Matt Smith. However it is too early for me to say if this series is more substance over style....lets wait and see but its looking quite good so far.


Regards D S D L

DSJR
06-04-2010, 09:19
Apart from the hideous title music. Bring back Delia I say.......!

Marco
06-04-2010, 10:03
Hi Martin

I quite liked Matt Smith. However it is too early for me to say if this series is more substance over style....lets wait and see but its looking quite good so far.


Guys, I strongly disagree... See my comments elsewhere:


That's what Doctor Who lacks now - imagination! Did anyone see the first episode of the new series at Easter? What a load of old shite! The story lines have gone far too 'kiddie-fied' (biased to suit kids) and lost all of their scare factor they once had in the golden era of Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker....


http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=114538#post114538

I don't mind the new Doctor, but I hated the first episode, as I found it just too juvenile and stupid :rolleyes:

Let's hope that things drastically improve otherwise I'll no longer be watching it. Oh, and the new theme tune is an abomination.....

I'm sure if I think hard enough I'll find something else to moan about! ;)

Marco.

DSJR
06-04-2010, 18:01
Being one who watched from the first Dalek adventure in December 1963, you must bare in mind that the show was always aimed primarily at kids, who still love it to death. It's us oldies who have grown up and can now pick holes in it. My son was terrified of the monster and its teeth and had a nightmare about it a couple of nights later.

I'll tell you what I really think after the third episode (;))

Marco
06-04-2010, 18:44
I understand that, Dave, and I will give it time, but they key thing for me is that the old stuff scared the pants off me as a kid (the oldest I was in what I'd call Dr Who's heyday, 1970-1981, was 16), and I still find it quite scary now when I watch DVDs of the old series - stuff like The Sea Devils, The Autons, Robots of Death, etc were genuinely frightening, and got right inside your head in the most macabre way imaginable... This new stuff just doesn't have the same impact.

For me, the 'monster with the teeth' you refer to, in terms of scare factor (joke!), pales into insignificance compared to the above. Yes it might scare today's kids, but consider this: what would the monsters I referred to above, from the old series do to them, considering that in those days Dr Who was aimed at the very same audience - KIDS, albeit of a different generation.

So what's changed? For me, there’s a distinct lack of imagination in terms of ideas for monsters, with the preponderance of special effects diluting the quality of acting and also story lines.

Marco.

Spectral Morn
06-04-2010, 19:00
All these years later I still view shop display dummies with fear and mistrust. The John Pertwee stories with the Autons is really scary. Living plastic :eek:

That scene of a normal high street with shop dummies coming to life and killing all round them is still quite terrifying today. Those stories were written as serious works of fiction not humour as DR Who later became and I am sorry but Russell T is in my book almost as bad as John Nathan Turner (Dave will know what I mean by that) in that regard.

The reuse of them in the first new Who series was worse than a joke.

Marco see my other comments re Who in the Gormley thread in abstract gallery.


Regards D S D L

hifi_dave
06-04-2010, 19:20
I understand that, Dave, and I will give it time, but they key thing for me is that the old stuff scared the pants off me as a kid (the oldest I was in what I'd call Dr Who's heyday, 1970-1981, was 16), and I still find it quite scary now when I watch DVDs of the old series - stuff like The Sea Devils, The Autons, Robots of Death, etc were genuinely frightening, and got right inside your head in the most macabre way imaginable... This new stuff just doesn't have the same impact.

For me, the 'monster with the teeth' you refer to, in terms of scare factor (joke!), pales into insignificance compared to the above. Yes it might scare today's kids, but consider this: what would the monsters I referred to above, from the old series do to them, considering that in those days Dr Who was aimed at the very same audience - KIDS, albeit of a different generation.

So what's changed? For me, there’s a distinct lack of imagination in terms of ideas for monsters, with the preponderance of special effects diluting the quality of acting and also story lines.

Marco.

What's happened is that you have grown up and can see how crummy the latest monster really is. Whereas looking at the old series you are recalling how scared you were as a child.

When I look at the old monsters which scared the pants off you, as a much older person I just see men shambling along in monster suits. Laughable but not scarey at all to me.

What still upsets me is the first series of Quatermass in black and white. The music and the sight of Victor Caroon staggering down the gangway off the spaceship with a cactus for an arm. That still sends shivers up my spine...:eek:

Marco
06-04-2010, 19:20
Those stories were written as serious works of fiction not humour as DR Who later became...


Completely agree, Neil, on The Autons.

It is "serious works of fiction" and gripping, edge-of-the-seat drama I'm looking for from Dr Who! When I want comedy, I watch the likes of Little Britain. I don't watch Dr Who to get a laugh.

The other thing that's badly missing with the new serious is the eerie, foreboding, atmosphere portrayed by sound effects created by the BBC Radiophonic Workshop - sometimes those sounds were more frightening than the monsters, but when both were combined to superb scary effect, the results were magical...

I wish that I could say the same thing of the new series (and I'm not just talking about the episode at Easter)! Sadly not. The work of Delia Derbyshire and co is sadly missed.

Marco.

Marco
06-04-2010, 19:31
Hi Dave,


What's happened is that you have grown up and can see how crummy the latest monster really is. Whereas looking at the old series you are recalling how scared you were as a child.


Read my previous post again, Dave - you've obviously not read what I wrote properly. I still find the likes of the Robots of Death scary (to an extent) NOW AS AN ADULT, as also I did when I WAS A KID :)

Whereas the new stuff I just find ridiculous, as indeed I'm sure I would've done when I was 12, if that's what I had been watching with Dr Who then. It was much 'darker' in those days, and that's how I liked it.


When I look at the old monsters which scared the pants off you, as a much older person I just see men shambling along in monster suits. Laughable but not scarey at all to me.


Some of the stuff is like that, but classic monsters, such as I refer to above, have retained their 'scare factor' and are certainly much scarier than anything the new Dr Who series has mustered so far.

Try watching something such as 'The Brain of Morbius' from the old series (aimed at KIDS in the 70s) and compare it to the dross that was shown on Saturday.....

Marco.

Spectral Morn
06-04-2010, 19:42
What's happened is that you have grown up and can see how crummy the latest monster really is. Whereas looking at the old series you are recalling how scared you were as a child.

When I look at the old monsters which scared the pants off you, as a much older person I just see men shambling along in monster suits. Laughable but not scarey at all to me.

What still upsets me is the first series of Quatermass in black and white. The music and the sight of Victor Caroon staggering down the gangway off the spaceship with a cactus for an arm. That still sends shivers up my spine...:eek:

Nigel Kneale is a genius of the highest order. His writing was and is first rate. The BBC have been showing the movies for the last week or so...great stuff.


Regards D S D L

John
06-04-2010, 19:42
A cool radio doc about Douglas Adams and Doctor Who
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rp3dw/The_Doctor_and_Douglas/

DSJR
06-04-2010, 21:43
The one story that had me hiding behind the door (our sofa was against the wall) was The Dalek's Masterplan. Only three episodes remain, but the surviving Episode 2 should give you an idea of the atmosphere in the "music" and visuals.

I agree about Robots of Death ("Please do not through hands at me..."). Our son loved the "Heavenly Host" from the "Titanic" Christmas episode and after much persuasion, he watched the former and is hooked. There were clunker stories back then as well, but i forget the titles and will bore everyone else.

As for "JNT......" - me lips (etc..) is sealed guv'nor..:D

Barry
08-04-2010, 12:20
Great write up Neil - looking forward to reading Part II.

Regarding ID, I had thought of wearing a badge, so other AoS'rs who I have yet to met, might introduce themselves but didn't follow the idea up.

Apropos Doctor Who, it always takes a little time to adjust to the newest reincarnation. I quite enjoyed the first episode - at least it explained the ridiculously short skirt (for a policewoman)! Not sure about the new TARDIS though.

Regards

DSJR
08-04-2010, 19:40
"....Just go forward in all your beliefs; and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine......"