View Full Version : Possible system inbalance
Haselsh1
02-08-2018, 11:55
I don't know what is going on with my system lately but since moving in to this new cottage and changing to Spendor S3/5R2's I am aware of a potential inbalance in the presentation. With all CD's I have listened to there is a huge cavernous space of air and acoutsic to the far right of the right hand speaker but there is no such thing to the left of the left hand speaker. This is rather annoying to say the least. Anyway, with this in mind, here is what I have checked:
Swapped over the speakers - no change
Swapped over the speaker cables - no change
Swapped over all interconnects - no change
Swapped over all preamp valves including the rectifiers - no change
Swapped over all power amp signal valves - no change
So far all I haven't done is swap over the EL34's and swap over the digital coax cable for another make. I am starting to think that it may well be the room that is causing this oddity.
Any suggestions..?
I've had a similar problem and it was the room, or rather the position of the speakers in the room. It did not occur with all speakers, just some. Moving the speakers resolved the problem.
My room is not symmetrical on either side of the speakers, on one side is a plain wall, on the other a long alcove between 2 chimney breasts. Until I experienced it I would not have thought that this would make such a noticeable difference to the sound. When it was suggested to me as the cause I was sceptical. But I moved the speakers anyway and it was indeed the problem.
Ali Tait
02-08-2018, 12:43
Have you tried reversing phase on one of the speaker connections?
Haselsh1
02-08-2018, 12:57
No Ali I haven't. Macca, sounds familiar. My room is a very vague L shape in which there is more room behind me to the right than there is to my left. This is why I think it has to be the room. Also, I have never encountered a pair of speakers that are so directional ever before. The slightest movement of each speaker makes a huge difference.
Maybe swap to some big Tannoys, they don't seem to care where you plonk them.
Are your speakers quite tall? I only have the issue with tall speakers, 5 foot or so.
Haselsh1
02-08-2018, 15:05
Maybe swap to some big Tannoys, they don't seem to care where you plonk them.
Are your speakers quite tall? I only have the issue with tall speakers, 5 foot or so.
Hell no mate, speakers are LS3/5a wannabee's on Atacama stands at around 24" tall. Stunning speakers by my own standards but very bloody picky.
Bigman80
02-08-2018, 15:37
Hell no mate, speakers are LS3/5a wannabee's on Atacama stands at around 24" tall. Stunning speakers by my own standards but very bloody picky.I had an imbalance in my room along with some boom on the bass. The speakers are very close to a Piano and also in the corner of the room. It was causing all sorts of issues. On the suggestions of STD305 (Steve) we added some foam to try and decouple the speakers from the stands a bit and I have put a few egg boxes in the troublesome corner. The balance is greatly improved and bass is much firmer.
It's a PITA but with a few bits of information you can balance the room a bit better.
A couple of pics to demonstrate.
Obviously, once I've got everything right, I'll make much better looking bits [emoji23]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/1abbe47dfa5a18297fd62c1621e8f5c1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/03be7eba6c4ee64c1350a48eb9005bb4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/e69fc611bd89e9fc7685a37a619e865f.jpg
Do you play the Joanna, Oli?
Bigman80
02-08-2018, 15:47
Do you play the Joanna, Oli?Not very well [emoji23] it's the gaffers. I can do a somewhat legible "imagine" and a few very easy songs but I never fancied it too much. I'm a guitar man. Bass, lead and rythm, banjo. Play drums and took Cello in my formative years too.
Haselsh1
02-08-2018, 16:31
Well, swapped over the cable terminals to the left speaker and all it did was just move virtually all of the image to the speaker that currently has most of the image.
Haselsh1
02-08-2018, 16:34
Oliver, I have a similar guitar amp to you but it is a Boss Katana 50. Bloody lovely amp as I am sure your Vox is.
Bigman80
02-08-2018, 16:44
Oliver, I have a similar guitar amp to you but it is a Boss Katana 50. Bloody lovely amp as I am sure your Vox is.Shaun, the Katana 50 looks a cracker.
I've been using Vox since the Marshall I had became randomly epileptic. It would just start "screaming" for no reason then stop. I gave up when I paid £180 for its repair and two months later it started again. It must've been the spirit of Hendrix objecting to my attempts at Voodoo Chile [emoji23][emoji23]
The Vox is a Valve/hybrid amplifier with amp modeling. I got an absolute bargain on it. I paid £145 for it because the guy in the shop couldn't figure it out 🤣
It's a phenomenal amp and has been with me for a real long time. I've recorded and gigged with it and it's never let me down.
A fella in Australia sent me an email once after a demo I put on a musician website went a little bit popular. It was the amp that was popular, not me lol.
I ended up recording a few riffs for a couple of his songs, he used a couple too.
Well, swapped over the cable terminals to the left speaker and all it did was just move virtually all of the image to the speaker that currently has most of the image.
Looks like room treatment time then. Unless you can have a total reorg of the room, but I guess that is not on the cards?
Haselsh1
02-08-2018, 18:15
Looks like room treatment time then. Unless you can have a total reorg of the room, but I guess that is not on the cards?
Never say never
;)
(While the cats away)
Haselsh1
02-08-2018, 18:16
Shaun, the Katana 50 looks a cracker.
I've been using Vox since the Marshall I had became randomly epileptic. It would just start "screaming" for no reason then stop. I gave up when I paid £180 for its repair and two months later it started again. It must've been the spirit of Hendrix objecting to my attempts at Voodoo Chile [emoji23][emoji23]
The Vox is a Valve/hybrid amplifier with amp modeling. I got an absolute bargain on it. I paid £145 for it because the guy in the shop couldn't figure it out 🤣
It's a phenomenal amp and has been with me for a real long time. I've recorded and gigged with it and it's never let me down.
A fella in Australia sent me an email once after a demo I put on a musician website went a little bit popular. It was the amp that was popular, not me lol.
I ended up recording a few riffs for a couple of his songs, he used a couple too.
Christ man I have heard so many bad things about Marshall. My Katana 50 was about £175 brand new as I spotted a web discount that I thought was a wind up, it wasn't.
Bigman80
02-08-2018, 18:20
Christ man I have heard so many bad things about Marshall. My Katana 50 was about £175 brand new as I spotted a web discount that I thought was a wind up, it wasn't.Sound wise I loved it but the reliability was poor. That was my second one too
Haselsh1
31-05-2019, 11:32
Just re-hashing this thread as it was posted in August of 2018 and a week ago in May 2019 the whole system started to completely open up on the left hand side of the room. The Spendor's were bought brand new in March 2018, the Prima Luna power amp in November 2016. It was re-valved with new JJ EL34's last year. A couple of months ago I pushed the speakers slightly closer to the rear wall but apart from that, nothing has changed. It would appear though that something has indeed changed in spite of all of the swapping and messing last year. It's a mystery to me (a shot in the dark) ;)
fatmarley
31-05-2019, 14:55
Your hearing perhaps?
Haselsh1
31-05-2019, 17:29
Your hearing perhaps?
Easily possible. Other than that, because the system has hardly been used, it is also possible that something internal has changed in the power amp. The CDT was brand new, the DAC secondhand, the Prima Luna pre amp was secondhand, the power amp brand new. The Spendor's were brand new. I am almost certain that something in the power amp has loosened up. The current state of the stereo image is bloody wonderful on either side.
Light Dependant Resistor
31-05-2019, 17:39
Have you tried reversing phase on one of the speaker connections?
As Don asked here, incorrect phase is or could be the problem. In the circumstance I would visually check that + is wired to + and negative to negative for each channel. Noting too
that some combinations of equipment deliberately alter phase.
Haselsh1
01-06-2019, 15:25
Chris, taking the really obvious things first, all of the cables were and are correctly plugged together in that red goes to red and black goes to black but if things have been labelled incorrectly then I have no idea. The only thing I have obviously changed is the speaker distance to the rear wall which has gone from maybe thirteen inches to ten. I just cannot understand how a week or so back when I switched it on and played a CD the whole left side had opened up. As I said, prior to the last twelve months the system had had very little use but that changed at the beginning of this year when we started to listen a lot more. I was seriously pissed off with the stereo image up to this point but now it is wonderful.
Haselsh1
01-06-2019, 15:26
As Don asked here, incorrect phase is or could be the problem. In the circumstance I would visually check that + is wired to + and negative to negative for each channel. Noting too
that some combinations of equipment deliberately alter phase.
Oh yes, I did try this but it just made the whole sound very vague.
Have you moved the amp slightly in the interim?
It could just be dry joint somewhere...
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