Upgrading from an Orbe?

[Manicatel]

This is quite speculative, but interested in other peoples views.
Currently I have an Orbe/Ekos/Lyra Kleos, into an AR PH5 phono-stage.
Now I really do love this combo. Although I also stream music via Tidal, there's just something about the vinyl front end that does it for me.
However, I 'may' shortly be in a position to spend a bit on my system. So if I decided to upgrade from my Orbe etc set-up, what would people suggest? I've had an LP12 (which is where the Ekos came from), I've heard the Rega rp10 but would not switch to it.
How much would a decent upgrade cost? Something from Avid maybe?
Alternatively, would people suggest sticking with the Orbe but changing the arm ( to an SME V at a guess) or Phono Stage?
All views appreciated!

[Gazjam]

This is quite speculative, but interested in other peoples views.
Currently I have an Orbe/Ekos/Lyra Kleos, into an AR PH5 phono-stage.
Now I really do love this combo. Although I also stream music via Tidal, there's just something about the vinyl front end that does it for me.
However, I 'may' shortly be in a position to spend a bit on my system. So if I decided to upgrade from my Orbe etc set-up, what would people suggest? I've had an LP12 (which is where the Ekos came from), I've heard the Rega rp10 but would not switch to it.
How much would a decent upgrade cost? Something from Avid maybe?
Alternatively, would people suggest sticking with the Orbe but changing the arm ( to an SME V at a guess) or Phono Stage?
All views appreciated!

Hi mate.
My decks a "Gorbe" (A Gyro with all the Orbe bits on it) and when I changed my Michell Technoarm to a SME V something quite special happened.
There's a real magic using the V on the Michell platform, really brings out the best in the deck.

At this level maybe diminishing returns kicks in?
I think you could throw a large chunk of change for a small improvement, my thoughts are to make the best of what you have and stick a V on there.

[Ammonite Audio]

This is quite speculative, but interested in other peoples views.
Currently I have an Orbe/Ekos/Lyra Kleos, into an AR PH5 phono-stage.
Now I really do love this combo. Although I also stream music via Tidal, there's just something about the vinyl front end that does it for me.
However, I 'may' shortly be in a position to spend a bit on my system. So if I decided to upgrade from my Orbe etc set-up, what would people suggest? I've had an LP12 (which is where the Ekos came from), I've heard the Rega rp10 but would not switch to it.
How much would a decent upgrade cost? Something from Avid maybe?
Alternatively, would people suggest sticking with the Orbe but changing the arm ( to an SME V at a guess) or Phono Stage?
All views appreciated!

What particular character/aspect of the current setup do you wish to improve on?

[ijrussell]

Hi mate.
My decks a "Gorbe" (A Gyro with all the Orbe bits on it) and when I changed my Michell Technoarm to a SME V something quite special happened.
There's a real magic using the V on the Michell platform, really brings out the best in the deck.

At this level maybe diminishing returns kicks in?
I think you could throw a large chunk of change for a small improvement, my thoughts are to make the best of what you have and stick a V on there.

I have an Orbe and the change from Origin Live Silver to SME IV was a massive upgrade.

[Lurch]

For an arm only upgrade I would say either SME V or Origin Live Conqueror.
However for TT and arm upgrade I would suggest you get a session with the new Origin Live Resolution mk4 (junk the std D200 motor for the D300) with optional balanced PSU & upgrade Sovereign platter, this will set you back around £4.7k (and give you 95% of the Sovereign performance with a saving of about £1,000 on the Sovereign price) .
Then the sale of your current TT & arm should easily cover the cost of an OL Conqueror.

[DiveDeepDog]

Try and listen to an SP10, Garrard or Thorens 124, very different presentation which you may like.

Replacing an Orb with a more expensive suspended belt drive may be better and suit you, but I would explore other paths first.


*Add Notts Analogue, mass decks offer different presentation.

[flapland]

I had a AC Orbe with Audiomods arm but the step up when I changed to a SME 20/2 with a V arm was not small. There is one for sale I think on PFM for a fair price.

[hifi_dave]

Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace or Dais. Job done.

[mac72]

As long as your Orbe does speed right don't change it , spend as much as possible on arm and your cartridge ( if coming close to end ) then look into phonostage IMO

[Manicatel]

Thanks for the input guys.
The swap to an SME V is a response I was expecting as a lot of people say it’s the classic arm for the Orbe & Michell used the V when designing the Orbe.
I’ve not had experience of a SME V vs Ekos comparison & as most people use an ekos in a Linn based system, it’s not often a neutral comparison can be found.
I’ve not heard the NA decks for quite a while & I’ve never heard an SME turntable.
What areas am I looking to improve upon?........Nothing stands out as an annoying weakness with my current set up, but I am happy to accept that there are turntables which are definitively better than the Orbe. I couldn’t justify spending more on a disposable item, so the Kleos is top end of my cart list. I’ve only had it a short while, so hopefully it will give me a good few years of service.
Any future spend would be a long term purchase & not a stepping stone.
A different Phono Stage may be an option I guess, but again, I wouldn’t know where to go to definitively better my existing PH5.

[stevied]

Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace or Dais. Job done.

Agree I have had both Orbe & Dais and the Dais is in a different league.

[topoxforddoc]

Lots of choices

NA Dais
Platine Verdier
TW Acustic
Thales
Brinkmann
Plus more

[Mike Reed]

Went from 14 years with Orbe/Five on wall shelf to N.A. Dais about 6 or 7 years ago. First change was to have a stable platform for the Dais as I didn't fancy 44 kg (or whatever) on a Target shelf, not that it would fit.

I personally think that if you're contemplating a change from the Orbe, choose another format rather than try to improve on the belt-driven suspended one. Sure, you may incrementally improve on things with an SME 20/3 or top Avid etc. but changing to a mass deck, or even a retro move to a non suspended oldie (Garrard, Goldring) will, I feel not only bring a greater beneficial change but allow you to install 12" tonearms whenever you wish. Instead of the SME Five, e.g., you can slaver at the Five-twelve !

Keep your Kleos as you say, and as I had a Clavis and Helikon on my Five/Orbe, it can be guaranteed with this combo, but could sound even better (subjectively) on a mass deck, for example. I had my friend's Titan i on my N.A. Ace Anna 12" for a few days and even my friend was impressed compared to his Orbe/Five. However, he's now gone to SME 20/3 with Phantom arm but hasn't got round to installing his Titan i instead of his Helikon yet. Twelve inch arms do something rather nice to upper coil cart's, and, dare I say it, add a little more music to the Lyra's hifi presentation..

The Ekos is reputedly a good arm known for bass presentation but not sure if the late John Michell would have given the thumbs up. He did indeed have the Five and a Koetsu Rosewood (sig ?) on his prototype Orbe when I visited (to buy his ProAc speakers). I later bought one of the first Orbes; my friend got one soon after.

[Bksabath]

Orbe to RP 10 no not really big step back IMO

Avid? I have the Volvere SP whit SME V If you buy Avid it is made for the SME so you stuck whit the SME which is way overpriced now, don't get me wrong, is quite good but whit 9K you can do much better, I do not think AVID make cheaper TT that would be comparable to ORBE

Make me an offer for both, they are less than one year old, and I will rush to the shop to get the Origin live Conqueror arm and sovereign turn table as seen on... here at the North west audio show https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?57425-It’s-time-for-North-West-Audio-Show-2018/page6 here there is a nice picture of the set up but you must read the tread as there are many nice comment about this set up and for me it was best at show
thinking about it the Conqueror will work nicely on the Orbe ;)

Confession time... I got the SME V because I wanted one from the day it came out but could not afford it, then when I could afford it I was not allowed to get one, so the very first day after selling the house after splitting up whit GF of 17 years I got one and that was the second most stupid thing I did whit starting to smoke again in first place. AVID was made for the SME so I got that as well

SME V has a reputation "the best arm in the world", but hang on a minute that slogan is 20 maybe more years old do not fall for it

[Vrajbasi]

I have a soft spot for the Michell Orbe having owned one around 20 years ago lovely turntable very much underrated and a great company to deal with superb support. I have found the sme v the best match however after had quite a few old and new ones they have got steadily better and also two arms never quite sound the same so a bit hit and miss. I have friend who recently changed his V for another the previous one from early 2000 sounded quite flat and dull he just purchased a new one and the improvements were quite staggering so much more free and open.

I find buying an Sme tonearm used quite difficult as one never knows what one is purchasing so best to find a dealer who understands them. Sme servicing has become very expensive too a series V service can cost up to £1000 starting from £600 so this has to be also considered.

You need a dealer with experience who can assist I have found the same with Graham and Triplanar tonearms too and a few others. I still think a good sample of a Sme V will be an excellent match to the orbe. I have heard the orbe and sme when well set up with the right cartridge sound superb.

Turntables are tricky beasts at the best of times best of luck with it all. If funds are tight the Audionote arms are very good I still prefer the sme but would rather have a new Audio Note than a misused s/h Sme personally.

[ianlenco]

For an arm only upgrade I would say either SME V or Origin Live Conqueror.
However for TT and arm upgrade I would suggest you get a session with the new Origin Live Resolution mk4 (junk the std D200 motor for the D300) with optional balanced PSU & upgrade Sovereign platter, this will set you back around £4.7k (and give you 95% of the Sovereign performance with a saving of about £1,000 on the Sovereign price) .
Then the sale of your current TT & arm should easily cover the cost of an OL Conqueror.

Funnily enough that's what my brother's just done. He replaced his "Gorbe" with the Origin Live Resolution + upgrades and is telling me it is a considerable improvement. He had the OL Conqueror on the Michel and transferred that over along with his Cadenza cartridge so any improvements are down to the deck. I trust his judgement, he tends to keep stuff for a very long time so doesn't swap gear lightly.