New TT, Holy cow!!!

[stairpost]

Just picked this up, and I'm bloody loving it!! It's like nothing I have ever owned, I always thought I had a decent enough vinyl sound but this is genuinely a different league.

Sorry if I sound excited but no one else I could share it with would understand :)

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/forumgallery/monthly_2018_07/large.20180725_190213_resized.jpg.bafc10d792f49646 d062e8da89b865f7.jpg

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/forumgallery/monthly_2018_07/large.20180725_190218_resized.jpg.41615892b56f13c5 0f0c31416fa8c0d1.jpg

[Audio Al]

Go on then what is it :scratch: and the cart ?

[stairpost]

Go on then what is it :scratch: and the cart ?

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be a teaser. It's a Clearaudio Emotion, with a Clearaudio Performer cartridge.

[Stryder5]

Go on then what is it :scratch: and the cart ?

Looks like Clearaudio?

[Stryder5]

Looks like Clearaudio?

Sorry I was slow to answer

[Audio Al]

OK thanks , does look the part , Enjoy :)

[alphaGT]

I looked at this ‘table before I bought the one I have. It’s a looker! But I wasn’t able to hear it. So glad you’re happy with the sound! A nice looking arm on it too! And the cart came with it? Nice!

Russell

[stairpost]

I looked at this ‘table before I bought the one I have. It’s a looker! But I wasn’t able to hear it. So glad you’re happy with the sound! A nice looking arm on it too! And the cart came with it? Nice!

Russell

Funnily enough I wasn't sold on the looks at first, but I've come to really like it. It came without a cart so I went for the best Clearaudio cart I could afford. They seem to work extremely well together. The dealer said that when it's time to upgrade at the end of it's life, I can trade this one against the price of the new one to make the upgrade a bit cheaper. But given the length of it's working life, that'll be a good few years yet.

Rich.

[alphaGT]

Funnily enough I wasn't sold on the looks at first, but I've come to really like it. It came without a cart so I went for the best Clearaudio cart I could afford. They seem to work extremely well together. The dealer said that when it's time to upgrade at the end of it's life, I can trade this one against the price of the new one to make the upgrade a bit cheaper. But given the length of it's working life, that'll be a good few years yet.

Rich.

So what are you using for a phono preamp?

Russell

[jollyfix]

I have one, nice turntable.. found it works best with some good isolation. I tried a few mats, but for me best without.

[jandl100]

I tried a few mats, but for me best without.

Yes, dump the mat!

I'd love to see a pic with the bare acrylic platter - I bet it's stunning.

Clearaudio did a low cost clamp device iirc that worked well for me ... ah yes, here it is the "Clever Clamp" :) http://www.analogueseduction.net/clearaudio-upgrades-parts-accessories/clearaudio-clever-clamp.html

[stairpost]

I'd never think to use it without a mat, the bare acrylic just doesn't have a vinyl friendly feel to it, but I shall certainly give it a try.

I do use a record weight, but it's the solid weight style not the clamp style.

[stairpost]

So what are you using for a phono preamp?

Russell

No phono preamp, just straight into the Copland amp phonostage.

[Audio Al]

Just tried a mat on my TT , Not feeling it to be honest the record keeps falling off and the arm gets knoocked out of place
Making a weird SHHHHHHH type noise


:D


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/859/43670851021_b56f9d7884_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/29x3wxg)IMG_3689 (https://flic.kr/p/29x3wxg) by Allen Wells (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150639903@N08/), on Flickr

[stairpost]

Just tried a mat on my TT , Not feeling it to be honest the record keeps falling off and the arm gets knoocked out of place
Making a weird SHHHHHHH type noise


:D


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/859/43670851021_b56f9d7884_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/29x3wxg)IMG_3689 (https://flic.kr/p/29x3wxg) by Allen Wells (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150639903@N08/), on Flickr

I believe that post was the very thing for which LOL was invented :)

[alphaGT]

No phono preamp, just straight into the Copland amp phonostage.

I’m sure it’s great! So many preamps don’t have a phono stage any more, so if it has one it’s likely to be nice. But, I promise your table and cartridge could enjoy the benefits of an external phono pre, if you ever get the itch. Perhaps someone near you could loan you something to try?

My personal experience started out with the built in phono stage in my Parasound preamp. It sounded great! But, wanting to upgrade, as I always do, I purchased an external phono preamp, a $1000 unit I bought used for $400! And I adjusted it for my cartridge, spun my first record, and was floored at the difference! I was unaware my table/cartridge had such potential!

All things are relative, your mileage may vary, and all that, but I know your ‘table has great potential, that’s some top drawer gear you’ve got. If you ever get the itch, I’m sure there’s ground to be gained in the pre.

Russell

[stairpost]

Yes, dump the mat!

I'd love to see a pic with the bare acrylic platter - I bet it's stunning.

Clearaudio did a low cost clamp device iirc that worked well for me ... ah yes, here it is the "Clever Clamp" :) http://www.analogueseduction.net/clearaudio-upgrades-parts-accessories/clearaudio-clever-clamp.html

A pic without mat. I really can't get used to the idea of using it without one though, but I must admit I haven't tried yet so I may be pleasantly surprised.


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/931/43659227312_21b3bf9826_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/29w1Xdu)20180728_134105_resized (https://flic.kr/p/29w1Xdu) by Hans Wilsdorf (https://www.flickr.com/photos/149663163@N08/), on Flickr

[jandl100]

^ Wow, much cooler than with a tatty bit of felt on the platter. ;)

I'd be interested in your findings if you do experiment with mats/ no mat.
Clearaudio make a couple, one of which is made of vinyl! http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/clearaudio-vinyl-harmonicer-turntable-mat.html
And this acrylic mat might look best of all! :) http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/analogue-studio-perspex-clear-acrylic-turntable-mat.html

[jollyfix]

^ Wow, much cooler than with a tatty bit of felt on the platter. ;)

I'd be interested in your findings if you do experiment with mats/ no mat.

Same here.

[chris@panteg]

Nice deck, I fancied one of these at one time, so it sounds much better than the Technics?

[Liberdade]

Nice TT! If you do experiment with a mat, I'd be interested if you hear any differences. I might try the same with my Lumley Heliosphere.

[stairpost]

^ Wow, much cooler than with a tatty bit of felt on the platter. ;)

I'd be interested in your findings if you do experiment with mats/ no mat.
Clearaudio make a couple, one of which is made of vinyl! http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/clearaudio-vinyl-harmonicer-turntable-mat.html
And this acrylic mat might look best of all! :) http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/analogue-studio-perspex-clear-acrylic-turntable-mat.html

I'm planning to do a mat/no mat test session when I get back on Tuesday evening. I'll post the results. I think there is a leaning towards mat for me as I see it as a soft safe base for vinyl, where as, perhaps incorrectly, I see putting a record directly onto the acrylic platter as a bit hard, and potentially damaging somehow.

[stairpost]

It looks like your anti-skate is very high

I've got a set of scales on the way, and I'm looking for a suitable protractor, but I'll be honest and say I don't really have a clue how to set anti-skating so I'm going to have to google for some info.

[stairpost]

I’m sure it’s great! So many preamps don’t have a phono stage any more, so if it has one it’s likely to be nice. But, I promise your table and cartridge could enjoy the benefits of an external phono pre, if you ever get the itch. Perhaps someone near you could loan you something to try?

My personal experience started out with the built in phono stage in my Parasound preamp. It sounded great! But, wanting to upgrade, as I always do, I purchased an external phono preamp, a $1000 unit I bought used for $400! And I adjusted it for my cartridge, spun my first record, and was floored at the difference! I was unaware my table/cartridge had such potential!

All things are relative, your mileage may vary, and all that, but I know your ‘table has great potential, that’s some top drawer gear you’ve got. If you ever get the itch, I’m sure there’s ground to be gained in the pre.

Russell

I'm pretty happy with my set up, so a good phonostage is probably the most sensible purchase when the upgrade itch next strikes. (and funds allow)

[stairpost]

Nice deck, I fancied one of these at one time, so it sounds much better than the Technics?

There is a reassuringly enjoyable solidness to the sound of the 1210, but the Clearaudio sounds more lively, clearer and more dynamic. If I was to border on the cheesy I would say the instruments just sound better.

[ovlov854]

Sorry if I sound excited but no one else I could share it with would understand

Don't worry we all understand......a new TT is always something to shout about
Now go get MORE VINYL!!!!

[chris@panteg]

There is a reassuringly enjoyable solidness to the sound of the 1210, but the Clearaudio sounds more lively, clearer and more dynamic. If I was to border on the cheesy I would say the instruments just sound better.

More natural tone perhaps? I think the techie is not so good at that but does most things well.
Have you got any mods other than the tonearm?

[Yomanze]

More natural tone perhaps? I think the techie is not so good at that but does most things well.
Have you got any mods other than the tonearm?

I do find the Techie, stock, to be a bit grey tonally. My Pioneer PL71 does a much better job here.

[stairpost]

More natural tone perhaps? I think the techie is not so good at that but does most things well.
Have you got any mods other than the tonearm?

The tonearm is a Clearaudio Satisfy, as far as I am aware it's not modded.

[stairpost]

Sorry if I sound excited but no one else I could share it with would understand

Don't worry we all understand......a new TT is always something to shout about
Now go get MORE VINYL!!!!

It's perfect timing. I've just picked up a copy of a piece of music I've wanted for years. I won't play it until it's set up properly though so it will be a real joy when I finally listen to it.

[chris@panteg]

The tonearm is a Clearaudio Satisfy, as far as I am aware it's not modded.

I meant with the Technics?

[stairpost]

I meant with the Technics?

Got you, sorry.

Nope, nothing modded at all.

[chris@panteg]

Got you, sorry.

Nope, nothing modded at all.

I see, it will sound a little grey and dark if standard.

[stairpost]

^ Wow, much cooler than with a tatty bit of felt on the platter. ;)

I'd be interested in your findings if you do experiment with mats/ no mat.
Clearaudio make a couple, one of which is made of vinyl! http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/clearaudio-vinyl-harmonicer-turntable-mat.html
And this acrylic mat might look best of all! :) http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/analogue-studio-perspex-clear-acrylic-turntable-mat.html

Well, I had a listen with and without mat, and I can't honestly say I could hear a difference. I do get the impression that it was intended to be used without mat, as the spindle was much more prominent and gave a good solid seat for the weight without it, where there wasn't a great deal for it to lock onto with a mat. I have left it without mat for now with the intention of trying a different mat or 2 as the opportunity arises. I think a thin cork mat might be my first test.

[Bigman80]

Well, I had a listen with and without mat, and I can't honestly say I could hear a difference. I do get the impression that it was intended to be used without mat, as the spindle was much more prominent and gave a good solid seat for the weight without it, where there wasn't a great deal for it to lock onto with a mat. I have left it without mat for now with the intention of trying a different mat or 2 as the opportunity arises. I think a thin cork mat might be my first test.I had a Inspire Quest Turntable and that had an acrylic platter. I prefered it with a leather platter mat above the usual suspects.

[alphaGT]

Most people are put off when I say that I made my own protractor, or setup templates. I Googled for the exact information, and a 1/4” hole punch and a metric rule is all I needed to make my own template with card stock. Every bit as exact, if not more so, than any expensive store bought template.

There are a few different scales, so it was easy to make a few different ones, or try them all, to see which one you prefer.
https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml
This page may help fill you in, as to the geometry involved, whether you make your own or buy, it’s good to understand the physics of it all. Plus more info out there on the Vinyl Engine site.

Russell

[stairpost]

Most people are put off when I say that I made my own protractor, or setup templates. I Googled for the exact information, and a 1/4” hole punch and a metric rule is all I needed to make my own template with card stock. Every bit as exact, if not more so, than any expensive store bought template.

There are a few different scales, so it was easy to make a few different ones, or try them all, to see which one you prefer.
https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml
This page may help fill you in, as to the geometry involved, whether you make your own or buy, it’s good to understand the physics of it all. Plus more info out there on the Vinyl Engine site.

Russell

Hi Russell,

I think the physics will be a bit beyond me, I'm purely going to follow the instructions.

I have very kindly been offered the loan of a protractor, but if I can pick one up I think it will be a useful thing to have. So that leads me onto my question if you don't mind, do all protractors display the same set up? Or would I need one tailored to my deck/arm/cart?

I see affordable options for sale, but I am obviously keen to avoid the wrong alignment.

Rich.

[alphaGT]

Hi Russell,

I think the physics will be a bit beyond me, I'm purely going to follow the instructions.

I have very kindly been offered the loan of a protractor, but if I can pick one up I think it will be a useful thing to have. So that leads me onto my question if you don't mind, do all protractors display the same set up? Or would I need one tailored to my deck/arm/cart?

I see affordable options for sale, but I am obviously keen to avoid the wrong alignment.

Rich.

Hi Rich, good questions. Yes there is more than one alignment. But, the differences are slight. And it’s more about different Records, more so than different record players.

Basically, since the headshell on the end of the tonearm is setting at an angle to the arm, you have two points of alignment. Across the width of the record grooves the needle will be perfectly square to the grooves in two places. One, farther around the circle than the other, due to the compound angle of the headshell. The different alignments pushes these two points closer to the beginning, closer to the end, or right in the middle. It’s fairly safe that you can buy a store bought protractor and not worry about which alignment it uses, any of them will work. Unless you’re playing very old Records, or 45’s, 10” Records, or 78’s, the most popular alignment will be the best. There are names for the different alignments, I used to know them by heart, but most standard ones sold on store bought protractors will work just fine. If you ever get into long tonearms or odd Records, then you may want to study up on that stuff.

So the idea is to get the sides of the cart to Line up with the lines on the protractor. But, you may find that it’ll be perfect on one, but not so perfect on the other. The cure for this is to slide the cartridge forward or back, what is called, “overhang”, and why the mounting slots are elongated. Slide it back and forth until you find the length that makes it line up with both points best.

I like to take a magnifier and look at the needle where it meets the groove. That is what we are really trying to do. And the needle should stand straight up in the groove, but leaning forward just 3 to 5 degrees or so. Some cartridge makers will give this angle in their setup literature. But too much tracking weight can squash out the cantilever, that angle is important. Sometimes it too is listed by the maker. 22 degrees is not uncommon, cantilever to the bottom of the cartridge. And if your tonearm has a VTA adjustment, more expensive ones often do, the bottom of the cart should be somewhat parallel to the record surface. Jack the height at the pivot point up or down to achieve this. Some like it a bit higher in the rear, this can be adjusted by ear. Some needle profile types are more sensitive to this adjustment than others, lower and raise it a tiny bit until you hear it pop into focus. This last paragraph is more of my personal attention, getting your first cartridge up and running doesn’t have to be this complicated, but a glance at how the needle is actually setting in the groove is not a bad idea, a sign that things are right.

So basically, yes, use your favorite off the shelf protractor and it should work fine.

Russell

[Barry]

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?20109-Tonearm-alignment

[Phil Lawton]

Just picked this up, and I'm bloody loving it!! It's like nothing I have ever owned, I always thought I had a decent enough vinyl sound but this is genuinely a different league.

Sorry if I sound excited but no one else I could share it with would understand :)

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/forumgallery/monthly_2018_07/large.20180725_190213_resized.jpg.bafc10d792f49646 d062e8da89b865f7.jpg

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/forumgallery/monthly_2018_07/large.20180725_190218_resized.jpg.41615892b56f13c5 0f0c31416fa8c0d1.jpg

Bought one myself in June, Rich - consistently and continually knocked out by it. Same arm, but with a 2M Blue cart.

Always used a mat with other 'tables, but not with this - the mat now simply acts as a secondary dust cover to the perspex dust cover and I remove it before playing anything.

If you need a dust cover for it, then I can highly recommend PR Displays to you. Based in Leicester and extremely reasonable - they made my cover for less than £85, including postage.

[stairpost]

Hi Rich, good questions. Yes there is more than one alignment. But, the differences are slight. And it’s more about different Records, more so than different record players.

Basically, since the headshell on the end of the tonearm is setting at an angle to the arm, you have two points of alignment. Across the width of the record grooves the needle will be perfectly square to the grooves in two places. One, farther around the circle than the other, due to the compound angle of the headshell. The different alignments pushes these two points closer to the beginning, closer to the end, or right in the middle. It’s fairly safe that you can buy a store bought protractor and not worry about which alignment it uses, any of them will work. Unless you’re playing very old Records, or 45’s, 10” Records, or 78’s, the most popular alignment will be the best. There are names for the different alignments, I used to know them by heart, but most standard ones sold on store bought protractors will work just fine. If you ever get into long tonearms or odd Records, then you may want to study up on that stuff.

So the idea is to get the sides of the cart to Line up with the lines on the protractor. But, you may find that it’ll be perfect on one, but not so perfect on the other. The cure for this is to slide the cartridge forward or back, what is called, “overhang”, and why the mounting slots are elongated. Slide it back and forth until you find the length that makes it line up with both points best.

I like to take a magnifier and look at the needle where it meets the groove. That is what we are really trying to do. And the needle should stand straight up in the groove, but leaning forward just 3 to 5 degrees or so. Some cartridge makers will give this angle in their setup literature. But too much tracking weight can squash out the cantilever, that angle is important. Sometimes it too is listed by the maker. 22 degrees is not uncommon, cantilever to the bottom of the cartridge. And if your tonearm has a VTA adjustment, more expensive ones often do, the bottom of the cart should be somewhat parallel to the record surface. Jack the height at the pivot point up or down to achieve this. Some like it a bit higher in the rear, this can be adjusted by ear. Some needle profile types are more sensitive to this adjustment than others, lower and raise it a tiny bit until you hear it pop into focus. This last paragraph is more of my personal attention, getting your first cartridge up and running doesn’t have to be this complicated, but a glance at how the needle is actually setting in the groove is not a bad idea, a sign that things are right.

So basically, yes, use your favorite off the shelf protractor and it should work fine.

Russell

Hi Russell,

Protractor used and it's looking pretty good at first glance, I'll have another look in a couple of days with a more critical eye.

Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

Rich.

[stairpost]

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?20109-Tonearm-alignment

Thanks Barry, that was a interesting read. Maths and physics have never been my strong point but the overview was helpful.

Rich.

[alphaGT]

Hi Russell,

Protractor used and it's looking pretty good at first glance, I'll have another look in a couple of days with a more critical eye.

Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

Rich.

I’m glad it all worked out for you. Funny thing, I sold my old Pro-ject Debut to a friend and helped him set it up today! Small world. I think most people approach setup with a bit of trepidation, but once you’ve done it a few times it’s really not a big deal. You may even come to like it!

Bottom line, now that you’ve done it once you’re practically an expert!

Anyway, glad I could help, makes me want to go play a record!

Russell