View Full Version : Should political discussions be banned on AoS?
Guys,
After the recent 'fracas' on the Brexit thread, I had initially made the decision to ban all discussion of political topics in future, simply because history shows here that folks can't be trusted to debate such matters in a calm, polite and rational manner, and so inevitably we end up with a bun fight, between folks with entrenched political positions.
And as someone who has no particular love for politics, let alone games of petulant 'insult tennis', between grown adults who should know better and be able to control themselves, I had thought 'enough is enough'. However, in the cold light of day, as it were, I've decided to let the membership decide on this matter, by taking it to a vote.
However, please note that doing so is under the strict understanding that if the majority of people vote 'No', and political topics are to continue being discussed, that in future anyone guilty of throwing personal insults during debates (by playing the MAN, not the ball, as it were), will be banned for ONE MONTH, without further notice, as I simply won't have that type of behaviour here.
We don't tolerate it on hi-fi threads, so we're not going to tolerate it on political ones either, and mods will be instructed to carry out punitive action on that basis. Therefore, on that strict understanding, please vote accordingly, and/or offer your comments as necessary! :cool:
Voting is anonymous, and the poll will run for 14 days, plus if necessary be 'bumped' regularly, in order to allow as many people as possible to cast their votes.
Marco.
PS, to Tapatalk users: the poll won't be showing, you need to be on the actual AoS site to cast your vote.
I would personally vote in favour of banning political discussion - if there was a mechanism by which I could do so.... ;).
What do you mean, daftee, there is a button for you to vote Yes or No!
Marco.
If you want to keep members then yes, political threads elsewhere always seem to end up with members being banned [emoji23]
I voted no, because this issue is nothing to do with discussing politics, and all to do with people not keeping their cool, and getting personal, when there is a difference of opinion. A simpler way to do it is to have a zero tolerance policy on people throwing personal insults, in which case, I think a 'sin bin' system, banning them for a couple of weeks, would suffice.
If you want to keep members then yes, political threads elsewhere always seem to end up with members being banned
And here too, Mike. We had to ban someone yesterday, due to his petulant and totally disrespectful reaction to having the Brexit thread locked, and in particular my comments about "Brexit shite". I make no apologies for being sick to the back teeth of hearing about it at the moment.
The fact is, I'd welcome political discussion/debate here, even though most of it bores me to tears, *if* it can be conducted in an adult manner, and in line with the friendly vibe we promote on AoS. If not, then it simply won't be happening.
Marco.
ianlenco
23-07-2018, 09:41
Politics, religion and sex have no place on a hifi forum - in my humble opinion of course. Politics in particular always seems to end in a bun fight.
I never become involved in 'debates' purely because it is sometimes difficult to get across what you mean by typing, whereas speaking face to face things have a totally different meaning.
As far as I'm concerned I joined this site to read about hifi and music, politics I avoid like the plague [emoji6]
I voted no, because this issue is nothing to do with discussing politics, and all to do with people not keeping their cool, and getting personal, when there is a difference of opinion. A simpler way to do it is to have a zero tolerance policy on people throwing personal insults...
Absolutely, Neil. Those are exactly my thoughts too, which is also why I also voted 'No'. Contrary to what some may think, I hate banning things unless it is *absolutely* necessary, and maintaining the friendly vibe/smooth running of the forum, in that respect, will always come first.
The 'sin-bin' system will certainly be put into place, should the majority vote to keep political discussion. However, it will be strictly an immediate one-month ban for those guilty of throwing personal insults, as it needs to be taken seriously.
Marco.
Where’s the yes no button?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I never become involved in 'debates' purely because it is sometimes difficult to get across what you mean by typing, whereas speaking face to face things have a totally different meaning.
As far as I'm concerned I joined this site to read about hifi and music, politics I avoid like the plague [emoji6]
Me too, unless it's one of my 'pet topics', such as Scottish Independence, which I'm extremely passionate about! Otherwise, all I can do is YAWN. It's important to remember that AoS exists, first and foremost, as a subjectivist hi-fi and music forum.
The off-topic section is essentially for some light-hearted banter amongst the regulars, not to double as a formal debating society, on any subject, not just politics, and so nothing there should ever get 'too heavy':)
In that respect, this isn't pfm!;)
Marco.
The Black Adder
23-07-2018, 09:49
I've voted no, simply on the hope that people would learn to walk away if it's not what they want to hear. Lifes too short.
Where’s the yes no button?
Scroll up to the top of the page, Andy. Bear in mind that you'll need to be signed in to see it, and once you've voted, the button will no longer be visible.
Marco.
Cheers Marco
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PS to Tapatalk users the poll won't be showing, need to be on the actual site. :)
Scroll up to the top of the page, Andy. Bear in mind that you'll need to be signed in to see it, and once you've voted, the button will no longer be visible.
Marco.
No vote button available when using Tapatalk. [emoji1303]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You'll have to disable it then to vote, or do what Neil has said. Anyone else using such will also need to bear that in mind.
Marco.
You'll have to disable it then to vote. Anyone else using such will also need to bear that in mind.
Marco.
Sorted mate, just letting other Tapatalk user know . [emoji1303]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nice one :thumbsup:
Marco.
I used to be a regular at PFM where politics seems to have almost taken over certainly in the Off Topic rooms. I find I only pop in now and again now and that only tends to be to the classic room and classifieds.
If I wanted to discuss politics and Brexit I would join an appropriate forum.
Just saying!
Completely agree, Andy. Tony does his own thing, as he's both very interested himself in politics and has 'aligned' the off-topic section of his forum to cater for the regulars who enjoy indulging in rather serious political discussion, which is fine. It's now become part of pfm's identity.
AoS, in that respect, is totally different. This is very much a hi-fi and music forum, with an off-topic section tagged on, essentially for folks to indulge in some harmless fun/banter, or chats about footy, food/drink, cars and such, which appeals to our regulars, although of course anyone is welcome to join in:)
Very 'dry', serious, in-depth political debates, like you say, are best carried out elsewhere.
Marco.
Firebottle
23-07-2018, 10:20
I think I am going to vote No, as I think the forum should reflect its open and inclusive nature.
It's great to have adult and childish banter, given that it is just banter.
Anyway where have I put my trousers? I can't hear them from being at a festival all weekend.
PS Can we boot all the politicians into the next century rather than getting personal with each other on here?
What do you mean, daftee, there is a button for you to vote Yes or No!
Marco.
I think you were in the process of creating the poll - or perhaps I was still half asleep :).
Lol - or it could've been the Tapatalk thing?:)
Marco.
Me too, unless it's one of my 'pet topics', such as Scottish Independence, which I'm extremely passionate about!
The secret is not to have any 'pet topics', because then you can be laid-back about whatever is said about anything.
Indeed, but you can't help what you care deeply about, and I care *VERY* deeply and passionately about Scottish Independence, and ending unfair and unjust Westminster rule! But that's for another day;)
Marco.
I don't care about anything very deeply, other than my family's health and well-being. I can generally see both sides of an argument, so am unlikely to go overboard when presented with an opinion that differs from my own. That applies to hifi as much as to politics.
Well, we're all different. Remember, you're a 'stiff upper-lip' type, rather laid back Englishman. I'm a hotblooded, fiery temperamental and emotional Latin, prone to getting passionate/uptight about all sorts!;)
Marco.
Well, we're all different. Remember, you're a 'stiff upper-lip' type, rather laid back Englishman. I'm a hotblooded, fiery temperamental and emotional Latin, prone to getting passionate/uptight about all sorts!;)
Marco.
Actually, I'm one-half dour, Presbyterian Lowland Scots, one-quarter happy-go-lucky Irish Catholic, and only one quarter 'stiff upper-lip' Englishman. Even that one quarter English is Northern (Lancashire) rather than Southern.
Ah, so one could call you a cultured 'mongrel'?:eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Tricky question, ideally I would say no they shouldn't, but unfortunately some of the behaviour and language in the recent thread leaves a nasty taste. I don't like too many rules, but when people cannot behave like adults . . . . than maybe yes.
Beobloke
23-07-2018, 11:58
Following the Brexit debate, I trust that, should the outcome of this vote not be popular with some members, that there will be a long and protracted debate about having a second vote?
:D
Stryder5
23-07-2018, 11:59
Interesting
hifi_dave
23-07-2018, 12:29
A couple of times, I have been about to post on the Referendum thread but thought better of it. AOS is a friendly place - let's keep it this way.
nonuffin
23-07-2018, 12:54
Arguing over politics is like two fleas fighting over who owns the dog they are living on.
Arguing over politics is like two fleas fighting over who owns the dog they are living on.
I like that - maybe we should have an off-topic section for maxims such as this: we could call it 'Thought of the Day'. :lol:
I apply the same principle to threads on internet forums as I do to TV programmes and such.
If I don't like what I see/hear/read, I move on .... simples :)
Stuff is very easy to ignore on AoS, just don't click on the thread ..... or scroll down if a comment offends you.
Following the Brexit debate, I trust that, should the outcome of this vote not be popular with some members, that there will be a long and protracted debate about having a second vote?
:D
:lol:
...or best out of three
skimminstones
23-07-2018, 13:32
Ban it. It's just annoying and not what I imagine the majority of people come to a hi fi forum for. The Steve Hoffman forums ban political discussion and it makes for a much nicer place to post when it's just like minded people sticking to music and hi fi.
Ah, so one could call you a cultured 'mongrel'?:eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Definitely. Mongrels are healthier and less neurotic than thoroughbreds.
Indeed, and they don't suffer from the effects of inbreeding...
Marco.
Ban it. It's just annoying and not what I imagine the majority of people come to a hi fi forum for. The Steve Hoffman forums ban political discussion and it makes for a much nicer place to post when it's just like minded people sticking to music and hi fi.
That would make complete sense except that you get people falling out over those subjects too. I suppose if we ban politics it is one less subject to fall out over.
I like that idea, Andrew. We'll defo implement it!:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
23-07-2018, 16:07
Following the Brexit debate, I trust that, should the outcome of this vote not be popular with some members, that there will be a long and protracted debate about having a second vote?
:D
:) I see what you did there
Pigmy Pony
23-07-2018, 16:16
I have zero interest in Brexit, or any other political issues for that matter, but I am quite passionate about censorship (in that we're grown up enough hopefully to just avoid subjects we may have a problem with. So my vote is a no.
People don't like their politics questioned and will fight tooth and nail to win the argument which usually ends in tears so nothing positive comes out of them and any reasonable person would agree to a ban. Just my view of course.
Edit- also monitoring them is a job someone can well do without I imagine.
Marco, my vote is a No. I have a several reasons for this, not the least being that I expect all who participate in any public forum to conduct themselves online in the same civility and respect for others that they would if they were face-to-face. In other words, not to hide behind the anonymity of their online persona and use that a license to act in an aggressive or uncivil manner. If they can't do this, then I wholeheartedly agree with your proposed ban. To use a term from hockey: put them in the penalty box for a little time out. :mental:
Furthermore, if political discussion is banned, then the trolls will have ruined it for all others, who do want to engage in a civil discussion of things other than hi-fi. This would be a great shame. I find the diversity of topics being discussed on this forum very refreshing, and makes for a thriving, interesting place to have a quick chat about all sorts of things. I don't want to join a separate forum to discuss coffee, the weather, motorcycles, or whiskey...or politics. The occasional post here and there in this place is enough. Let's not start getting too narrowly focussed.
So, that's my two-bits worth. Hope this puts a bit more perspective into this.
Best,
Svend
Firebottle
23-07-2018, 18:55
Great post Svend.
Pigmy Pony
23-07-2018, 19:35
That would make complete sense except that you get people falling out over those subjects too. I suppose if we ban politics it is one less subject to fall out over.
Some people you could put into an empty room and they'll just fall out with themselves. :(
Still need to make up my mind.
My basic instinct is not to ban stuff and let people moderate themselves with gentle prodding by other members when someone starts to get out of line. A sin bin idea also would act as a suitable deterrent.
A lifetime ago I was an active member on a different forum where people got to know, respect and care for each other deeply over many years. But then the 7/11 thing happened and all hell broke loose. Many members stopped talking to each other and many members simply stopped posting. A ban at that time would have avoided lots of the heartache. But as I say goes against my instincts. Still thinking.
prestonchipfryer
23-07-2018, 20:41
Personally I find any political threads a complete bore, especially anything to do with the European subject. However I do think that discussion of politics should be allowed on this forum. So I don't think discussion should be banned but perhaps those who make personal remarks be sin-binned if seen fit by admin.
walpurgis
23-07-2018, 20:48
People should not take things too seriously. Abstract debate about politics on an audio forum will not influence anything at all in the real world, so there's nothing to be gained by getting heated over it.
Great post Svend.
Thanks Alan. Bottom line is, that it would be a shame if a small minority ruined something for the larger majority just because of their bad behaviour. There are enough instances of that kind of knee-jerk reaction out in society these days, that I don't feel it is right or even necessary to act in that way here. Correct the bad behaviour of the few, leave everything else alone for the many. Even if the poll shows that a slim majority vote Yes, I think there should be some sober second thought before putting a ban in place.
Regards,
Svend
Beobloke
23-07-2018, 20:54
With apologies to Leslie Nielsen, I'm sure we can discuss politics without resorting to name-calling.
Isn't that right, Mr. Poopy-Pants?
montesquieu
23-07-2018, 21:44
I think it should be banned. Too easy to get carried away and has no real place in a hifi forum. :o
Apart from the issue of Scottish independence. All SNP supporters are spawn of the devil and should be driven into the Clyde and swept away. Obvs. :ner:
Ha - good one, Tom!:D
Some excellent replies here chaps, since my last visit, which I'll get to tomorrow. Right now, I'm retiring to my bedroom which, with the heat we've had all day, will be like a bloody oven!!:doh:
:goodnight:
Marco.
I voted no , not because I'll ever discuss politics here but think that people should be able to voice views reasonably. It's a symptom of Brexit , the most divisive issue in the country. Ironically the poll result seems to be reflecting the referendum percentages !:D
Actually why don't you just ban Brexit chat?
walpurgis
23-07-2018, 22:39
Actually why don't you just ban Brexit chat?
Maybe 'cos there'll be other political stuff (I was going to say crap :)), like the next general election. (which could happen sooner than most expect)
Minstrel SE
23-07-2018, 22:44
It doesnt really work on a general hi fi based forum as I feel its not the place for it.
I will tell you why. I cut my teeth on another forum and found that many (if not all) people are not interested in a deep analysis of opposing views and it generally ends up as a shallow slanging match. There is no point offering half a page of type if the next comment is a couple of lines of vitriol. I found there is no point getting involved because those that shouted the briefest vitriol were driving the thread
Brexit is a hot potato and a nightmare. It heightens opinions and is best not debated on here in my opinion. We cant change anything here and maybe the brexit stuff is best left for the political/demonstration forums and arenas.
Im not up for the heavy stuff and like to keep it lighter hearted on here. Politics just winds people up and it will create barriers. I dont want to see threads on Israel for example because its naturally going to get heavy
The other side of too many topics being banned is that we can end up with very soft topics. However I quite like that here on the abstract chat.
I have to be honest that there is a real danger of just talking about the weather and Im not comfortable with bans. There is a balance to be had but very heavy subjects dont get us too far before somebody thread craps or caps them anyway :)
I have zero interest in Brexit, or any other political issues for that matter...
Ha - I'd a feeling we'd be on the same page here (Scottish Independence aside)!
How anyone can find reading about and/or discussing the minutiae of that boring load of bollox, which in reality we can do nothing about, enjoyable or fun, is beyond me, and with the world these days being a rather depressing place, all I'm interested in is what makes me smile and be happy:)
Life's too short to get bogged down by boring crap like Brexit. See my signature!
Marco.
Patrick Dixon
24-07-2018, 09:54
How anyone can find reading about and/or discussing the minutiae of that boring load of bollox, which in reality we can do nothing about, enjoyable or fun, is beyond me
I agree with you that it's boring and a waste of energy, but what make you think that you can do nothing about it? It's the 'will of the people' and you are one of 'the people'.
would it be banned for everyone though or would chinless wonder rants during any discussion of Scottish Independence still be allowed?
I agree with you that it's boring and a waste of energy, but what make you think that you can do nothing about it? It's the 'will of the people' and you are one of 'the people'.
Lol - point taken, but first of all I'd have to understand what the feck it's all about, beyond the very basics, to decide if I wanted to do something about it!
From day one of Brexit, I've not really had a scooby-doo what it was *really* all about, and I'm not sufficiently motivated to find out, as politics in general, bores the pants off me.
Just being honest:)
I simply voted to remain in the EU because I consider myself as European (much more so than British), and so for me it just made sense to keep things as they were. That was the simple thought process I applied when I voted, as I had (still have) no desire to study a subject that is of virtually no interest to me.
Whatever the outcome of Brexit, I'll simply chill and 'go with the flow', as my life circumstances allow for that. For me, it's nothing to get all 'het up' about.
Anyway, Patrick, I don't want to derail a thread about possibly banning political discussion, with politics, so best we leave it there:D
Marco.
would it be banned for everyone though or would chinless wonder rants during any discussion of Scottish Independence still be allowed?
Obviously if the subject is banned, it's banned for *everyone*, including me. Glad you remembered the "chinless wonder" remarks, though. I was rather proud of that, as it sums those folk up nicely:D
Marco.
People should not take things too seriously. Abstract debate about politics on an audio forum will not influence anything at all in the real world, so there's nothing to be gained by getting heated over it.
Debate about anything on an audio forum will not influence anything at all in the real world, yet people do get awfully het up about cables, valves v SS, active v passive preamps, football, the weather, you name it.
Hi Svend,
Marco, my vote is a No. I have a several reasons for this, not the least being that I expect all who participate in any public forum to conduct themselves online in the same civility and respect for others that they would if they were face-to-face. In other words, not to hide behind the anonymity of their online persona and use that a license to act in an aggressive or uncivil manner.
Goodness, you and I are are *so* on the same page here!
Such cowardly vermin, born from unfortunately being given a 'voice', after the birth of the Internet, are a disgrace to humanity, and I'd love to wipe them off the face of this earth. They're almost always examples of society's inadaquates, unhappy and discontented with their pathetic existence, posing as a 'life', and jealous of those who've made a success of theirs, so go out of their way to try and make them as miserable as they are:rolleyes:
Anyway, we INSIST on civility here, and so anyone who isn't capable of that won't last long!
That's one of the reasons why we have a rule instructing everyone joining our community to supply their real first names and locations (and to put it on their profiles), and introduce themselves, as trolls love to hide, and we don't want hiders here:nono: That helps keep the trolls away, and in the gutter where they belong. They should be unseen and never heard!
As far as possible, we like everything out in the open, and folk to be honest and upfront about who they are, so that this place attracts genuine people who aren't afraid of giving something of their true selves, instead of hiding behind pseudonyms, as 'faceless entities', usually with a negative and disruptive agenda.
If they can't do this, then I wholeheartedly agree with your proposed ban. To use a term from hockey: put them in the penalty box for a little time out. :mental:
Furthermore, if political discussion is banned, then the trolls will have ruined it for all others, who do want to engage in a civil discussion of things other than hi-fi. This would be a great shame. I find the diversity of topics being discussed on this forum very refreshing, and makes for a thriving, interesting place to have a quick chat about all sorts of things. I don't want to join a separate forum to discuss coffee, the weather, motorcycles, or whiskey...or politics. The occasional post here and there in this place is enough. Let's not start getting too narrowly focussed.
So, that's my two-bits worth. Hope this puts a bit more perspective into this.
I also completely agree with the above, so for those very reasons, if at the end of the vote, it's still neck and neck, as it is now, I'll give serious consideration to allowing political discussion to continue, on the basis I've already outlined - but ONLY if the result of the vote isn't clear cut.
If at the end there is a strong swing towards 'Yes' or "No', then whatever has the most votes will determine the outcome. It'll be interesting to see how it goes!:cool:
Marco.
Debate about anything on an audio forum will not influence anything at all in the real world, yet people do get awfully het up about cables, valves v SS, active v passive preamps, football, the weather, you name it.
Yes, but they're all far more interesting topics than politics!:D
Marco.
Yes, but they're all far more interesting topics than politics!:D
Marco.
Really? The weather?
Winter: it's fecking freezing
Spring: it's pissing with rain
Summer: it's fecking hot
Autumn: the fecking leaves keep falling off the trees.
Still rather discuss that than politics (other than of course, if you're living in Scotland, or were born there and have lived through years of English rule, being subjected to gross inequality and unjust Westminster dictatorship, dressed up as 'governing', so let's fuck 'em [Westminster] and go it alone) - I could rant about that until the cows come home;)
TBH, I'd rather discuss almost ANY other subject than mainstream politics, even the distinctly 'drain-like' pong of my botty-burps - hang on, I do that already!:lol:
Marco.
Hi Svend,
...if at the end of the vote, it's still neck and neck, as it is now, I'll give serious consideration to allowing political discussion to continue, on the basis I've already outlined - but ONLY if the result of the vote isn't clear cut.
If at the end there is a strong swing towards 'Yes' or "No', then whatever has the most votes will determine the outcome.
Marco.
That seems very reasonable, Marco. Like others, I don't participate in political discussions on this forum (or any other, for that matter), but I do feel strongly enough about the undue negative influence of small minorities of people who spoil something for everyone else, that I feel compelled to comment here. There's just far too much of that kind of thing going on these days, all over the world, and I really wouldn't like to see it happening here.
Best,
Svend
We're on the same page here, Svend; it's how proper people think!:thumbsup:
Marco.
'Listen to a Whig, or to a Tory, and you will suppose that the great bulk of society range under his banner; all, at least, who have any property at stake. Listen to a Radical, and you will suppose that all are marshalled with himself, unless those who have some private interest in existing abuses, or who have aristocratic privileges to defend. Yet, going into society as it is, you will find that a vast majority of good citizens are of no party whatsoever, own no party designation, care for no party interest, but carry their good wishes to men of every party, according to the momentary purpose they are pursuing'
Thomas De Quincey, Tait's Edinburgh Magazine, 1835
Frazeur1
24-07-2018, 14:33
Man, I wish there was a poll like this that would really work for voting my POTUS(POS as I call him) out of office, Yes please! Kerplunk! Oh shit, sorry Marco, that was a political thing...damn it. As I slowly shuffle off to the penalty box....
That seems very reasonable, Marco. Like others, I don't participate in political discussions on this forum (or any other, for that matter), but I do feel strongly enough about the undue negative influence of small minorities of people who spoil something for everyone else, that I feel compelled to comment here. There's just far too much of that kind of thing going on these days, all over the world, and I really wouldn't like to see it happening here.
Best,
Svend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT9xuXQjxMM
'Listen to a Whig, or to a Tory, and you will suppose that the great bulk of society range under his banner; all, at least, who have any property at stake. Listen to a Radical, and you will suppose that all are marshalled with himself, unless those who have some private interest in existing abuses, or who have aristocratic privileges to defend. Yet, going into society as it is, you will find that a vast majority of good citizens are of no party whatsoever, own no party designation, care for no party interest, but carry their good wishes to men of every party, according to the momentary purpose they are pursuing'
Thomas De Quincey, Tait's Edinburgh Magazine, 1835
What a wise man. Imagine what he could have accomplished if he had not been off his tits on opium half the time. He could have written books and stuff.
Man, I wish there was a poll like this that would really work for voting my POTUS(POS as I call him) out of office, Yes please! Kerplunk! Oh shit, sorry Marco, that was a political thing...damn it. As I slowly shuffle off to the penalty box....
Two minutes for Unsportsmanlike Conduct! Off with you!
https://postmediacanadadotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/1051952431-e1415726084412.jpg?w=660
https://youtu.be/PpoXuDpWKcU
What a wise man. Imagine what he could have accomplished if he had not been off his tits on opium half the time. He could have written books and stuff.
I'm struggling to decipher the 'Olde English' (which is why I hate Shakespeare, as no-one talks or writes that way these days, and so to me mostly comes across as gobbldygook), to understand what the full quote means. For example:
"Listen to a Radical, and you will suppose that all are marshalled with himself"... What's that supposed to mean?:scratch:
Marco.
I'm struggling to decipher the 'Olde English' (which is why I hate Shakespeare, as no-one talks or writes that way these days, and so to me mostly comes across as gobbldygook), to understand what the full quote means. For example:
"Listen to a Radical, and you will suppose that all are marshalled with himself"... What's that supposed to mean?:scratch:
Marco.
That radicals think that the 'silent majority' agree with them but are just to scared to say it.
Thanks, that makes much more sense now. Why didn't he just say that in the first place?:D
I'm a simple soul: when I'm reading something supposedly in 'English', I like its meaning to be immediately known, not have to unravel some form of 'cryptic code' first, which is too much like hard work!;)
Marco.
chris@panteg
24-07-2018, 18:32
I voted No, because I quite like a political discussion so long as it remains just that, if we behave and don't become personal then what's the problem, if you don't enjoy political discussion then you can avoid it easily enough.
I can see the best of 3 coming up here if its a close result which could well happen with Brexit of course !
That radicals think that the 'silent majority' agree with them but are just to scared to say it.
And that Tories think that everyone agrees with them.
What a wise man. Imagine what he could have accomplished if he had not been off his tits on opium half the time. He could have written books and stuff.
I have ten volumes of his collected works on the kitchen dresser. The other twelve volumes await in the University library.
I have ten volumes of his collected works on the kitchen dresser.
Excellent. I have cook books from Gino D'Acampo on mine.
Marco.
I have ten volumes of his collected works on the kitchen dresser. The other twelve volumes await in the University library.
Is there a volume that discusses the use of irony?
Or one that offers horoscopes? I need to know what's in store next month for Leos.
Marco.
Frazeur1
24-07-2018, 20:38
One thing that I do like about reading the political points of view on occasion, it gives me a varied and potentially greater perspective from other countries viewpoints on things that may or do affect us all in some way, shape or form. That can be somewhat valuable in my opinion.
Marco, if you ban political discussion you have to think about how you will cope not being able to talk about it when Scotland have another independence referendum, after the evil Theresa May forces them to leave the EU against the express will of the Scottish people?
:D
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
yeah because the rest of us would miss that tirade sooo much
I find them hilariously funny, myself.
Marco, if you ban political discussion you have to think about how you will cope not being able to talk about it when Scotland have another independence referendum, after the evil Theresa May forces them to leave the EU against the express will of the Scottish people?
:D
Yeah, Robert, good point! Seriously though, I'm all for allowing discussion, not stifling it, so I will keep my promise of giving the 'Nos' the nod, if the voting at the end is tight:)
Marco.
yeah because the rest of us would miss that tirade sooo much
Tell me, Mark, do you know any chinless wonders?
Marco.
maybe if you could describe the attributes rather than just throw names at them, I'd be able to answer that question.
as its stand that kind of description just seem like insults rather than critique, which to my mind resembles the "Play the man not the ball" approach you claim to despise
maybe if you could describe the attributes rather than just throw names at them, I'd be able to answer that question.
See here: https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/92000.html and here: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chinless%20wonder
There are plenty of them in Westminster, and particularly in the House of Commons ('hoorays', who almost certainly couldn't give a damn about Scottish interests), being paid handsomely for doing fuck all!;)
I don't want idiots like that making decisions that could potentially affect my life, especially if I'm Scottish and have little affinity with the English mentality 'darn sarf', which is why if I were still living in Scotland, I'd want to completely divorce myself from it and Westminster rule.
As for playing the man not the ball, I'm not referring to anyone here as a "chinless wonder", so that rule doesn't apply, unless of course you consider yourself as one, in which case I'll gladly apologise and withdraw my remark:)
Marco.
Surely all the people voting to ban political discussions don't join in those discussions anyway?
Who got banned by the way, and why? Nobody on that thread really seems to have done anything offensive enough to merit that!
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Stuff that happened behind the scenes caused the ban, Mark, not anything on the thread itself, as is often the case in these matters. ff1d1l was the offender.
Anyway, let's leave that one there, as it's done and dusted, and he no longer has any right of reply.
Marco.
Overall id prefer you police peoples behaviour, rather than the subject matter. Which I thinknyou do already.
Civilized discussions about politics where people respect other points of view can be had. But it takes a bit of work .
Would a ban be
A hard ban?
A soft ban?
A ban in name only ?
:D
willbewill
26-07-2018, 09:17
Overall id prefer you police peoples behaviour, rather than the subject matter.
:D
That's the problem as I see it - policing takes time and effort, not to mention the stress in dealing with the issues - much easier to forbid political discussion and always nip it in the bud that having to watch every thread where it is happening and dealing with the consequences (there always seem to be some where politics are concerned as that's what it is about). But whatever the final outcome of the vote guys, please don't make Marco's life more difficult afterwards.
walpurgis
26-07-2018, 09:23
There is a potential for this to be rather like Brexit. The votes cast and most finding the result not entirely satisfactory (whichever way it goes).
That's the problem as I see it - policing takes time and effort, not to mention the stress in dealing with the issues - much easier to forbid political discussion and always nip it in the bud that having to watch every thread where it is happening and dealing with the consequences (there always seem to be some where politics are concerned as that's what it is about). But whatever the final outcome of the vote guys, please don't make Marco's life more difficult afterwards.
Wow - amazing that someone's actually considered my position, and that of the rest of the mod team, who have to moderate the crap!:D;)
Thanks, Malcolm. It comes with the territory, though. I'm sure that if we do allow political discussion to continue, folks will be adult about it in future:)
Marco.
Beobloke
26-07-2018, 11:52
But whatever the final outcome of the vote guys, please don't make Marco's life more difficult afterwards.
Why not? He's admitted on the weather thread he's doing nothing all day today - don't want him to get bored!!
:D ;) :ner:
Wow - amazing that someone's actually considered my position, and that of the rest of the mod team, who have to moderate the crap!:D;)
Thanks, Malcolm. It comes with the territory, though. I'm sure that if we do allow political discussion to continue, folks will be adult about it in future:)
Marco.
(I also pointed out the admin overhead a while ago)
Overall id prefer you police peoples behaviour, rather than the subject matter. Which I thinknyou do already.
Civilized discussions about politics where people respect other points of view can be had. But it takes a bit of work .
I agree. Today it's politics, and tomorrow it will be <insert any subject>?
E.g. -- I recall that not long ago in the coffee thread a fellow got over-torqued about an espresso machine, for Pete's sake! I think he banned himself, but it could just as easily been an mod-enforced ban for all the poo he was flinging. Come to think of it, he probably took himself to the penalty box because he'd have been put there by the mods soon enough anyway. All in all, I think the mods here do a great job keeping an eye on pretty much every thread, no matter what the subject. No need to single out politics as needed extra vigilance.
Pigmy Pony
26-07-2018, 16:58
Overall id prefer you police peoples behaviour, rather than the subject matter. Which I thinknyou do already.
Civilized discussions about politics where people respect other points of view can be had. But it takes a bit of work .
Would a ban be
A hard ban?
A soft ban?
A ban in name only ?
:D
It'd be a ban don therun :)
Pigmy Pony
26-07-2018, 17:05
Why not? He's admitted on the weather thread he's doing nothing all day today - don't want him to get bored!!
:D ;) :ner:
There's only one thing in Marco's life that's getting harder, thanks to his collection of Ann Summers catalogues. :bum:
Pigmy Pony
26-07-2018, 17:08
or a band on ship.
Gaya band on
There's only one thing in Marco's life that's getting harder, thanks to his collection of Ann Summers catalogues. :bum:
It's the Simply Be catalogue for me, dahling - lots of its cheeky little outfits adorn my wardrobe:eyebrows:
Marco.
I had you down as more of a 'Victoria's Secrets' type.
Pigmy Pony
26-07-2018, 19:18
It's the Simply Be catalogue for me, dahling - lots of its cheeky little outfits adorn my wardrobe:eyebrows:
Marco.
Is 'Simply Be' the catalogue for sizes 18 - 32? Would explain what you mean by "big" fan.
Personally I'm a new fan of "I Saw It Here First" - the billboards are all around Preston, probably caused a few "rear end" collisions :D
Is 'Simply Be' the catalogue for sizes 18 - 32? Would explain what you mean by "big" fan.
I like it baggy to release the fart gas:D
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
26-07-2018, 20:14
With bicycle clips and a nice tight snake belt, take the weight of your feet!
You sure know how to live, daddy-o!
Marco.
Beobloke
27-07-2018, 11:49
I had you down as more of a 'Victoria's Secrets' type.
My brother-in-law reckon's Victoria's 'Secret' is that she's a fat bird who can't fit into anything that is sold in her shops...
Lol... Some guys might like a bit more 'meat on the bone':eyebrows:
[Count me out though, Del's a size 8].
Marco.
hifinutt
27-07-2018, 13:56
Discussing politics and issues is so interesting that NO way should it be banned
Pigmy Pony
27-07-2018, 17:12
Lol... Some guys might like a bit more 'meat on the bone':eyebrows:
[Count me out though, Del's a size 8].
Marco.
Quite big feet for a laydee… :D
Primalsea
27-07-2018, 19:23
I voted to ban it. This is a forum for hifi and music after all and some non-related discussion is allowed. However, there are other places people can go to talk politics. I don't see why AOS should have to cater for it if it is just going to cause issues.
Hi Paul,
Thanks as usual for your input. When you get a chance, as one of our resident 'techies', could you add your thoughts to this thread: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?59315-Solid-state-preamp-grain-compared-to-valves&p=997879#post997879
...specifically in reference to why you think passive and active preamps sound how they do (read the most recent posts). I respect your opinion on these matters:)
Marco.
Pete The Cat
28-07-2018, 06:26
Technology now outpaces society's ability to develop codes, mores and behaviours. We had a few hundred years to get an accepted convention on table manners but no time to coach the idiot with a mobile phone on a train. But even though the technology changes, we should have the inherent wit and sensitivity to know when a situation needs delicacy, when it's going to escalate and when to let it lie. It's sad if we have to legislate in order to achieve that. I was surprised to find that one of my best friends and I are on opposite sides of the Brexit debate. We had a discussion that began to get passionate but we realised that and went back to talking about stuff that really matters to us (ie beer, music, football). This is just basic common sense and social skill, knowing when / what / how much to talk about and with who. So it's a no from me.
In its own way this is a small example of a bigger issue that the coming years will wrestle with https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44967650 What would we think if, down the line, it was proposed that forums should be regulated ?
Pete
Pigmy Pony
28-07-2018, 06:59
I would argue that the learning of table manners over the past few hundred years has only been an issue for about 1% of the population, while the rest of us were more concerned with finding something to put on the table (eeh, I used to dream of having a table) and our manners only extended as far as sharing what we had with our families.
Fully agree with the technology thing though - the changes continue apace while our ability to use it wisely and considerately lags way behind. And the nature of the technology is such that the wrong 'uns can pretty much do as they please with next to no accountability. This needs to be addressed now, and the culprits punished.
That being said, I feel that stifling people's opinions on certain matters smacks of censorship, which I never find agreeable. I would prefer that people could speak freely, but with sanctions against those that would abuse this privilege. You can probably guess that mine was a 'no' vote.
Technology now outpaces society's ability to develop codes, mores and behaviours. We had a few hundred years to get an accepted convention on table manners but no time to coach the idiot with a mobile phone on a train. But even though the technology changes, we should have the inherent wit and sensitivity to know when a situation needs delicacy, when it's going to escalate and when to let it lie.
Completely agree, but unfortunately trolls don't have such skills or care about that, only enforcing their disruptive agendas on whatever platform they can get away with it on, and to hell with the consequences, which is why we don't allow it here. Therefore, I'd welcome any new controls imposed upon unacceptable, abusive on-line behaviour, so that those responsible become more accountable for their actions.
Those guilty should be exposed for what they are: inadequate wastes of oxygen, and penalised appropriately for their behaviour, then in future not allowed to hide behind a cowardly cloak of anonymity. The fact is, the behaviour of these people offers no constructive purpose whatsoever, only the opposite, so it should be outlawed.
I was surprised to find that one of my best friends and I are on opposite sides of the Brexit debate. We had a discussion that began to get passionate but we realised that and went back to talking about stuff that really matters to us (ie beer, music, football). This is just basic common sense and social skill, knowing when / what / how much to talk about and with who.
Indeed, but some folk are so selfish and wrapped up in their own insular little worlds, that they simply can't see, or deliberately have no interest in, how their actions impact on others. It's that lack of consideration and sheer selfishness that I think has escalated in recent times.
Folk these days think they should be free to say or do what they like, without repercussions, as unfortunately they've become too accustomed to getting away with it.
That sort of ignorance/selfishness, and lack of self-awareness, wasn't as prevalent as it is now, during the days when face-to-face communication was more common, as quite simply, these trolls wouldn't say to someone's face the insults that they're only too happy to perpetrate on the Internet - and so I fundamentally believe that some forms of technology, which make it easy to abuse and insult people with impunity, are intrinsically linked to the rise in bad manners and abusive behaviour.
We won't tolerate that here, however, which is why we moderate the forum in line with certain standards of behaviour, and insist on civility - and have no qualms about removing anyone incapable of adhering to it!
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
28-07-2018, 15:04
Well said.
I've just had a thought: How about a sub-forum that caters exclusively for members who have been banned, where they can give each other what-for. Non-banned members will not have access, but will be free to view the bun-fights. It'd be like a highbrow Jeremy Kyle Show. We could call it 'Banorama'.
Lol - now that would be funny!:D
Trouble is, they'd use it simply as an opportunity to moan (on and on, and on some more, like a broken record) about how they were subjected to "BIASED MODERATION", how incorrect their banning was, and how it was all the fault of the owner or mods, or someone else who provoked them, and proceed to hold a grudge about that for eternity, instead of understanding the justified reasons for their bans, and why their behaviour was unacceptable.
The inability of some of the banned fraternity, who supposedly have a life outside of forums , to simply 'dry their eyes and get over it', and get on with whatever else they have to do, never ceases to amaze me!
It smacks of desperate attention seeking and boredom. Quite simply, if they actually [B]had a life, they'd have far more important things to do than sit on a forum and slag people. What they need, apart from a slap and a damn good reality check, is given a greater purpose in life, and something more constructive to do with their spare time, which they clearly have WAY too much of!!
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
28-07-2018, 15:24
Shame really, that they can't even be relied on to be entertaining.
Pigmy Pony
28-07-2018, 15:25
The gap is closing!
Shame really, that they can't even be relied on to be entertaining.
Oh they're that all right, but only along the lines of 'let's laugh at the sad bastards without a life';)
Marco.
Well said.
I've just had a thought: How about a sub-forum that caters exclusively for members who have been banned, where they can give each other what-for. Non-banned members will not have access, but will be free to view the bun-fights. It'd be like a highbrow Jeremy Kyle Show. We could call it 'Banorama'.
It already exists under the name 'Snake Oil Audio'.
Liberdade
29-07-2018, 14:36
I think PFM suffers from a clique of high volume / low intelligence posters who clog the place with a mix of strident political views and conspiracy theories. AOS would be better off avoiding that, IMHO.
I would tend to agree - the ‘any other business’ section of pfm is best avoided for precisely the reasons you give. There also seem to be a number of contributors whose sole reason for membership appears to be to try to sway people’s political opinion - not through debate, but by misrepresented events.
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2018, 15:34
I'm worried that the next target will be the posters of inane, pointless crap. What will I have to talk about then? And don't say hifi - I know nothing about it. I don't even have a 'proper' hifi, just a Fidelity record player from the seventies, which I recently upgraded by blowing fluff off the needle. :(
In fairness that usually does give a big jump in sound quality.
In extra fairness, yes, I would be entirely in favour of binning (and/or banning) all discussion of pets, food, drink, holidays, pointless random words etc. I know I can just ignore this stuff, and I do, but that means I end up ignoring half the blooming forum!
I think PFM suffers from a clique of high volume / low intelligence posters who clog the place with a mix of strident political views and conspiracy theories. AOS would be better off avoiding that, IMHO.
Point noted, David, and you're entitled to your opinion, but I would rather not have derogatory remarks towards the content of other forums coming into this thread, particularly pfm, which runs harmoniously alongside AoS, and whose owner I have much respect for.
Marco.
In extra fairness, yes, I would be entirely in favour of binning (and/or banning) all discussion of pets, food, drink, holidays, pointless random words etc. I know I can just ignore this stuff, and I do, but that means I end up ignoring half the blooming forum!
I get that, Mark, but the stuff you've listed above, and the banter associated with it, which many of the regulars enjoy, is largely what makes AoS, AoS! :)
The fact is, you find out much more about what makes people 'tick', out with of hi-fi discussions, when talking about real life issues, and that adds to the 'human' aspect of the site and builds the forum community.
AoS is *so* much more than a bland, rather sober 'hi-fi bulletin board', and whether you enjoy it or not, the off-topic section, and the light-hearted meaningless bollox spouted there, is what gives this place, for some, a big part of its attraction and identity.
Marco.
So where do I buy the snake oil ?
[emoji16]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Firebottle
29-07-2018, 17:27
...and the light-hearted meaningless bollox spouted ..
Aaahh, is that what it's about :doh:
Yesh, and you love the frock talk, especially!:D
Marco.
The fact is, you find out much more about what makes people 'tick', out with of hi-fi discussions, when talking about real life issues, and that adds to the 'human' aspect of the site and builds the forum community.
Yes, well put. Unfortunately, I don’t personally feel drawn in by such ‘banter’; in fact rather the opposite.
Well, each to his or her own. You participate in the areas of the forum that interest you, and ignore the bits that don't. As you know, I enjoy your contributions very much on the hi-fi threads:)
One thing I've learned (among many things) in over 10 years of running this place, along with the mods, is that an on-line forum can only be successful if it has established a community [together with a USP], because *that* is what keeps folks 'tuned in' and coming back for more (to chat with their friends and other like-minded people), not endless, often repetitive, discussions on 'what speakers should I buy?', or whatever.
That's why anyone with intentions of running a successful forum, with longevity, would only ignore the 'human' element at their peril. If a forum contains no such element, and is devoid of diverse and interesting personalities, to chivvy things along, it will almost certainly eventually die.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2018, 20:20
Looks like I'm safe for now... :)
Not everyone on this forum will have the money to buy stuff, or the time and skills needed to make/fix stuff, but still love music and the kit they play it on.
My days are spent working with all kinds of people, none of whom have any interest in hifi. My leisure time is spent with people who also have no interest. I suppose this makes me the oddball, not everyone around me. So to be able to view and participate in all kinds of discussions with other oddballs has become a little corner of my life I can't imagine giving up. And that's thanks to the friendly and inclusive nature of AOS.
Long may it continue!
“Each to their own” - indeed.
Pete The Cat
31-07-2018, 18:33
It's that lack of consideration and sheer selfishness that I think has escalated in recent times.
I agree with your view that the anonymity of the internet has made bad behaviour easier and fostered it. I view trolls a little like extremist political actors and just ignore them. But I can see that others might not find that easy.
I’ve always imagined that forum moderation is bit like having a pub landlord, ie someone setting the tone, having a subtle or less subtle word and ultimately barring someone. However I can see that you and the team might have reached a point where it’s time-consuming and frustrating to be keeping peace in the playground on some day-to-day issues (NB - thanks for taking the time to reply).
My 12 year old likes telling me how out of date I am and by implication my knowledge and experience are of less value than hers. I enjoyed studying history and so I like telling her that human behaviour is always the same, just that the technology has changed from time to time, and so I feel I’m well-equipped. But maybe the current revolution is changing all that… :scratch: :(
Pete
Pieoftheday
31-07-2018, 18:48
No to a ban
Ninanina
31-07-2018, 20:56
It's very close indeed ;)
So how did you vote Bev, that is if you have voted?:)
Marco.
Ninanina
31-07-2018, 22:27
So how did you vote Bev, that is if you have voted?:)
Marco.
:wave:
I voted No Marco
I guess it is only a small group on this matter, and probably others, that cannot control themselves and have a discussion without being rude etc... :doh:
I'm all for having wide and very varied topics to participate in and if I'm not interested in a particular topic then I just ignore it.. :)
Hi Pete,
I agree with your view that the anonymity of the internet has made bad behaviour easier and fostered it. I view trolls a little like extremist political actors and just ignore them. But I can see that others might not find that easy.
Absolutely. As you say, the best thing you can do is ignore them, which is most often what happens here. We treat them as an insignificance, thus with the contempt they deserve. Being ignored like that is the ultimate weapon to defeat an insatiable attention-seeker, which is what breeds a troll - and trolls HATE being ignored!
They feed off the energy of being given the recognition they so dearly crave, which they're deprived of at home or in work, and where they're downtrodden by their partners or employers, or in some other area of life, where they've continually underachieved. Therefore, robbing them of any recognition, deprives them of the escapism they seek from their feelings of inadequacy and failure.
Continually raging against the world, and anything or anyone who shows them up for what they are, keeps them from focussing on their own miserable existence, but in the process makes them more enemies than friends....Pathetic bastards. And unfortunately that's how they're also destined to die: sad and lonely, with very little to show for their time spent on this earth.
Like I said, they need robbed of their anonymity and forced, by law, to reveal their true identity and geographical location, before being allowed online. Folks with nothing to hide (count me in) would have no qualms about that. It's the secretive and cowardly 'hiders', who cause all the problems, and who need flushed out and exposed.
I’ve always imagined that forum moderation is bit like having a pub landlord, ie someone setting the tone, having a subtle or less subtle word and ultimately barring someone. However I can see that you and the team might have reached a point where it’s time-consuming and frustrating to be keeping peace in the playground on some day-to-day issues (NB - thanks for taking the time to reply).
A pub landlord has always been the perfect analogy for a forum owner, running an on-line community, such as an Internet forum. Therefore, it's *their* name above the door, they pay the bills, and so ultimately they call the shots and decide who's allowed in and gets 'served' or not, or barred.
Some folks could do with remembering that, and considering how far they'd get in real life, squealing to a pub landlord about being 'unfairly' barred from their premises, for repeatedly aggressive and unacceptable behaviour, and refusing to comply with the 'house rules', then ridiculously demanding to have their bans rescinded from where they're justifiably no longer welcome...
Marco.
Ninanina
31-07-2018, 23:16
Some folks could do with remembering that, and considering how far they'd get in real life, squealing to a pub landlord about being 'unfairly' barred from their premises, for repeatedly aggressive and unacceptable behaviour, and refusing to comply with the 'house rules', then ridiculously demanding to have their bans rescinded from where they're justifiably no longer welcome...
Marco.
Exactly
It's really very simple..... treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself :peace:
walpurgis
31-07-2018, 23:20
treat other people as you would like to be treated:
Said the lady with the whip, to her strapped down, bare assed, masochistic client. :D
Ninanina
31-07-2018, 23:23
Said the lady with the whip, to her strapped down, bare assed, masochistic client. :D
:rfl:
Don't go there !
:wave:
I voted No Marco
I guess it is only a small group on this matter, and probably others, that cannot control themselves and have a discussion without being rude etc... :doh:
I'm all for having wide and very varied topics to participate in and if I'm not interested in a particular topic then I just ignore it..
Nice one, Bev. Unless things change drastically, that looks like what the outcome will be:)
Marco.
It's really very simple..... treat other people as you would like to be treated :peace:
Yup, but add the word 'yourself' at the end (it reads better that way):)
The problem is, you're often dealing with folk who've rarely known much joy in their lives, as a result of having experienced either unhappy childhoods, unfulfilling relationships or unsuccessful careers, or possibly all three.
Therefore, they simply don't know what it's like to be treated, as you or I would like to be treated ourselves, as they don't know what kindness or happiness is, only anger and resentment, and so unfortunately your above example doesn't work...
That's what breeds such bitterness in these people (trolls), and why they're so jealous of what others have that they don't, and so seek to destroy. It's pitiable, really.
Marco.
Ninanina
31-07-2018, 23:58
Yup, but add the word 'yourself' at the end (it reads better that way):)
The problem is, you're often dealing with folk who've rarely known any joy in their lives, as a result of having experienced either unhappy childhoods, unfulfilling relationships or unsuccessful careers, or possibly all three.
Therefore, they simply don't know what it's like to be treated, as you or I would like to be treated ourselves, as they don't know what kindness or happiness is, only anger and resentment, and so unfortunately your above example doesn't work...
That's what breeds such bitterness in these people (trolls), and why they're so jealous of what others have that they don't, and so seek to destroy. It's pitiable, really.
Marco.
'yourself' now added ;)
I find it very sad if you are correct about folk not knowing any joy in their lives...
I simply don't understand people who are angry, resentful and especially jealous, but maybe I am just lucky to not experience any of these feelings. However I'm not convinced having these feelings is all to do with unhappy childhoods etc as life is what you make it after all :)
I find it very sad if you are correct about folk not knowing any joy in their lives...
Well, considerable behavioural evidence, supplied by those concerned, strongly suggests otherwise... If they've known much joy, then they certainly hide it well!!
I suspect that's why they're more comfortable being embroiled in conflict, than at peace with the world around them. It's a question of familiarity.
I simply don't understand people who are angry, resentful and especially jealous...
Me neither. Jealously I'm virtually immune from, as I don't give a flying toss what anyone else has got, or if they're got more [of whatever it is] than me. I'm entirely comfortable with what I have, and where I am in my life, both emotionally and financially, so jealousy for me is a pretty alien concept.
I'm fundamentally not wired that way, especially as I'm not driven, as often others are today, by the notion of material possessions reflecting my 'success'. What BULLSHITE that is, and simply the domain of the insecure.
Perhaps it's because of being brought up having never wanted for the most important things, such as parental love and attention? That's why I've grown up contented and happy. For me, a lack of such damages people emotionally later in life, perhaps more than anything else.
As for being angry and resentful, sure that happens with me sometimes, but only when provoked. Unlike some, it's not an integral part of my persona (I'm not a fundamentally angry person), fatally damaged by what I've experienced in life, and certainly not used to being around angry or mercurial people.
Quite the opposite, which is why I often react adversely when I'm exposed to 'fun hoovers'! I insist on being surrounded by cheery, happy folk who make me smile, as that's what I've always been used to since I was a kid:)
However I'm not convinced having these feelings is all to do with unhappy childhoods etc as life is what you make it after all
Indeed, and which is why some folk can have lived for, say, 70 years or more, and worked all their lives, but yet in reality have ended up achieving little, simply because their bad attitude has stifled their success, and by being so bitter and resentful towards others, spreading hatred instead of love.
I'm a great believer in the saying 'you reap what you sow', but also sometimes you can be hobbled from the off, by the hand you were dealt with from birth...
Anyway, we're getting all philosophical and veering wildly off-topic, so best get back to talking about the vote!:cool:
Marco.
It's really very simple..... treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself
'Don't treat others as you would like to be treated yourself; their tastes may be different'. (Noel Coward).
Lol - I guess if you're talking about masochists, then their 'tastes' might be different!
However, I like to be treated with kindness, civility and respect (because that's what I've always been used to), as I suspect Bev does. That's how I automatically treat people, unless they give me cause to do otherwise - so in that respect, who wouldn't want the same?
Marco.
Lol - I guess if you're talking about masochists, then their 'tastes' might be different!
However, I like to be treated with kindness, civility and respect (because that's what I've always been used to), as I suspect Bev does. That's how I automatically treat people, unless they give me cause to do otherwise - so in that respect, who wouldn't want the same?
Marco.
more folk could do with taking a leaf from your book
Thanks, mate. For me it's just normal (how I was brought up), and also an integral part of life in the 'little island' Del and I have built, which divorces us from the selfishness and nastiness of the 'real world':)
Marco.
Well, considerable behavioural evidence, supplied by those concerned, strongly suggests otherwise... If they've known much joy, then they certainly hide it well!!
I suspect that's why they're more comfortable being embroiled in conflict, than at peace with the world around them. It's a question of familiarity.
Me neither. Jealously I'm virtually immune from, as I don't give a flying toss what anyone else has got, or if they're got more [of whatever it is] than me. I'm entirely comfortable with what I have, and where I am in my life, both emotionally and financially, so jealousy for me is a pretty alien concept.
I'm fundamentally not wired that way, especially as I'm not driven, as often others are today, by the notion of material possessions reflecting my 'success'. What BULLSHITE that is, and simply the domain of the insecure.
Perhaps it's because of being brought up having never wanted for the most important things, such as parental love and attention? That's why I've grown up contented and happy. For me, a lack of such damages people emotionally later in life, perhaps more than anything else.
As for being angry and resentful, sure that happens with me sometimes, but only when provoked. Unlike some, it's not an integral part of my persona (I'm not a fundamentally angry person), fatally damaged by what I've experienced in life, and certainly not used to being around angry or mercurial people.
Quite the opposite, which is why I often react adversely when I'm exposed to 'fun hoovers'! I insist on being surrounded by cheery, happy folk who make me smile, as that's what I've always been used to since I was a kid:)
Indeed, and which is why some folk can have lived for, say, 70 years or more, and worked all their lives, but yet in reality have ended up achieving little, simply because their bad attitude has stifled their success, and by being so bitter and resentful towards others, spreading hatred instead of love.
I'm a great believer in the saying 'you reap what you sow', but also sometimes you can be hobbled from the off, by the hand you were dealt with from birth...
Anyway, we're getting all philosophical and veering wildly off-topic, so best get back to talking about the vote!:cool:
Marco.
Very well put Marco , respect to you sir.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pigmy Pony
01-08-2018, 16:28
Thanks, mate. For me it's just normal (how I was brought up), and also an integral part of life in the 'little island' Del and I have built, which divorces us from the selfishness and nastiness of the 'real world':)
Marco.
Is the little island you and Del built Tracy Island? They're worth big money these days :)
I am struggling slightly with the concept of a 'little island' for two people as an antidote to selfishness.
Pigmy Pony
01-08-2018, 17:06
I believe Marco called it Pen Island, because he likes the way the web address appears. :D
I am struggling slightly with the concept of a 'little island' for two people as an antidote to selfishness.
Well, you can only do so much to help others, and trust me, through the church and various other charitable organisations, we do plenty to help folk who need it, all of which represents the infrastructure of our 'little island', including the Christian lifestyle we live, where our doors are open at all times to our friends and family, and any other nice people we meet in the 'real world', who we then share our 'little island' with:)
We're very generous, kind and considerate to people we like. Nasty folk don't get in though, and are ALWAYS given short shrift! Quite simply, we don't believe in letting such poison in.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
01-08-2018, 17:09
And well spotted Joe, get out of that without moving Marco :)
I believe Marco called it Pen Island, because he likes the way the web address appears. :D
You got it, muchacho:eyebrows:
Btw, I'd let you in, but only if you have that bath you've been promising to take since the recent heatwave we've had. The cats have an aversion to the pong of mature cheese.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
01-08-2018, 17:17
You got it, muchacho:eyebrows:
Btw, I'd let you in, but only if you have that bath you've been promising to take since the recent heatwave we've had. The cats have an aversion to the pong of mature cheese.
Marco.
My next one is in September, we'll talk then.
This thread to decide if politics should be allowed, is indeed a political discussion!
Just thought I’d point that out
Russell
Not had a bath in 20 years
I know. You were rather 'ripe' last time I was up:eyebrows:
Yesh I know you take a shower...Occasionally, lol
Marco.
My next one is in September, we'll talk then.
Strange...I had it marked down for the 30th February:scratch:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
01-08-2018, 18:20
Not had a bath in 20 years
Dirty bugger, I've had at least twenty in that time.
I always have mine in September, gives me time to harvest the tide mark, dry it out and shape it into sweets to give the kiddies when they come trick-or-treating the following month. Love to see the look on their little faces, definitely an acquired taste :)
I know. You were rather 'ripe' last time I was up:eyebrows:
Yesh I know you take a shower...Occasionally, lol
Marco.
Aye. Got a wet floor room now. Had it for 20 years. Like the space etc but a nice bath. Nowt to beat a nice big bath. Your all lucky you can Best bath house I was in was Brighton bath house. Massive old wood topped baths you could float in
Yeah, nice one. Wet rooms are great. We've got one, too. You've seen our big enamel roll-top bath, haven't you?
I'm 6ft 2 and can still stretch out fully in that. Got ceiling speakers directly above where my head is too, so love having a nice long soak whilst listening to some choons:cool:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
01-08-2018, 19:04
Handl's 'Water Music' or Disco Duck?
'I'm forever blowing bubbles'... I like to have a nice wet FART!:D
Marco.
Dirty bugger, I've had at least twenty in that time.
I always have mine in September, gives me time to harvest the tide mark, dry it out and shape it into sweets to give the kiddies when they come trick-or-treating the following month. Love to see the look on their little faces, definitely an acquired taste...
Kinda like wine gums, only saltier, with 'bits' in? Am I close?:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
02-08-2018, 17:49
Kinda like wine gums, only saltier, with 'bits' in? Am I close?:)
Marco.
No, they're the bumfluff cling-ons, which I harvest with clippers. Too valuable to waste on those ungrateful brats, I sell them online. www,stinkydinkyclinkers.co.uk :)
The 'tidemark truffles' are more fudge-like and quite bitter, rather like a desiccated then rehydrated and reformed soapy dog-turd. Cut into small cubes, and enclosed in used Haribo wrappers.
Apologies, I seem to have moved away from politics here. But not by much.
'I'm forever blowing bubbles'... I like to have a nice wet FART!:D
Marco.
I knew someone who had a manservant named Waddle. Whilst having a bath, my friend broke wind. He was somewhat surprised when the manservant appeared a few moments later with a bed warmer. "I didn't ask for that" he exclaimed, to which the manservant replied "Oh I'm sorry Sir - I was sure I heard you say 'Waddle I want a hot water bottle' ".
(Totally fictitious back-story to frame my somewhat dubious shoolboy joke.)
That's the first time anyone has told that joke since 1873. The Prince Regent was present, I believe.
We aim to please!
I heard the joke at school. I was aged about 14 at the time. The Prince Regent was at the same school, but he was a year or two ahead of me. :D
That was a joke?
Yes - but admittedly not a very good one.
Yes - but admittedly not a very good one.
above my head alas,(admittedly not difficult:doh:) or perhaps should say it went under my funny bone:lol:
I see the yes and no votes are exactly equal at 70 apiece. A coalition government is clearly the answer.
I see the yes and no votes are exactly equal at 70 apiece. A coalition government is clearly the answer.
Looks like the result will need to be decided with a toss.
A 50-50 split.
We could ban political discussion but only on alternate months?
Looks like the result will need to be decided with a toss.
Which picture of a scantily-clad female would you like to perform said 'toss' in front of?;)
Marco.
A 50-50 split.
We could ban political discussion but only on alternate months?
I vote for allowing it only during leap years, when there's no 'r' in the month.
Marco.
Which picture of a scantily-clad female would you like to perform said 'toss' in front of?;)
Marco.
Oh Lordy! Didn't see that one coming!
montesquieu
04-08-2018, 17:28
Oh Lordy! Didn't see that one coming!
You didn't? Cleaner mind than me then.
If there's even the merest sniff of a double-entendre, I'm in there!:eyebrows:
Marco.
I vote that you create a separate forum section for political comment. I also vote that anybody who posts more in that section than any other, over a year say, has their account permanently deleted and their IP blocked.
walpurgis
04-08-2018, 22:31
I suspect you may be a bit alone with that Mark.
I vote that you create a separate forum section for political comment. I also vote that anybody who posts more in that section than any other, over a year say, has their account permanently deleted and their IP blocked.
We will leave it up to you to monitor all subsequent posts and analyse the figures. The Mods have enough to do as it is.
I think we have an average of about 2 political threads a year so it's going to take a while to compile the stats on who to ban.
I vote that you create a separate forum section for political comment. I also vote that anybody who posts more in that section than any other, over a year say, has their account permanently deleted and their IP blocked.
I vote for the same approach with 'three words daily'.
twickers
05-08-2018, 09:09
Everybody will get what nobody wants. That's proper democracy.
I vote for the same approach with 'three words daily'.
I’ll second that.
Just ignore it, then. It's much easier that way, especially when in recent times not much has been posted there.
Joe did a really good job of 'ignoring' it yesterday, by posting on the thread concerned!:D
Golden rule: if you truly don't like something, then don't give it any oxygen - and that includes moaning about it, thus drawing attention to its existence!!;)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
05-08-2018, 13:38
I vote for the same approach with 'three words daily'.
Bit harsh Joe! :)
Bit harsh Joe! :)
Boom Boom!
Pigmy Pony
05-08-2018, 13:44
Everybody will get what nobody wants. That's proper democracy.
I want your avatar's phone number, that's what I want. Will I get it? Probably not. :(
I want your avatar's phone number, that's what I want.
Only if you're into ladyboys, pre 'op'.. What you don't know is that that guitar is hiding a (not insignificantly-sized) man sausage!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
05-08-2018, 14:35
Only if you're into ladyboys, pre 'op'.. What you don't know is that that guitar is hiding a (not insignificantly-sized) man sausage!:eyebrows:
Marco.
If said man sausage is attached to a really tiny man I'll just pull him out of there and say 'I'll take it from here son'. But if that 'lady' turns out to be the owner of the sausage I'll just say 'Pleased to meet you, I'm Marco'. :D
Only joking, I just wanted to know what the hell she'd done with Jimi.
:lolsign:
You've been to too many of the wrong kind of parties!
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
05-08-2018, 15:01
I'd actually prefer to go for a ride with Michael loves music's avatar. They can go on ahead, and I'll bring up the rear. They'd probably kill me, but there are worse ways to go...
Oh dear, lusting after a postage stamp sized lady, I need help.
A totally unrelated technical question - how can you make teeny-tiny avatar pics full screen size? :)
here you go mate ...
https://i.imgur.com/JWKEJ3D.jpg
Pigmy Pony
05-08-2018, 16:02
Thanks Edward, very nice. Wonder if she can play it behind her head like Joe Brown used to do?
Have you got any of her hugging a harmonica?
I'd go for a penny whistle;)
Marco.
Audio Al
05-08-2018, 16:13
My view on this is PLEASE keep it off the forum
We get politics rammed down our throats every time you turn on the TV ( Very rare ) turn on the radio or read a newspaper , Im sick to death of it :steam:
Just my thoughts :)
I'd go for a penny whistle;)
Marco.
Don't know about that but if you remove the guitar you might find a nice little triangle, I'd be happy to se her play something on that...
Pigmy Pony
05-08-2018, 18:06
Perhaps that Rolling Stones album 'Sticky fingers'. Sorry about that, I disgust myself sometimes.
Dirty boys, you'd never see me indulging in such filthy talk;)
Anyway, folks, make sure you get all your votes in [especially if you feel strongly towards a ban], as the poll closes at 9.56am tomorrow!!
Marco.
Dirty boys, you'd never see me indulging in such filthy talk;)
Anyway, folks, make sure you get all your votes in [especially if you feel strongly towards a ban], as the poll closes at 9.56am tomorrow!!
Marco.
Why have you given the good folks here 1 minute less than originally planned Sir? What's the rush? :)
Whaddya mean? This thread was started at 9.56am, two weeks ago tomorrow. Scroll back and check the time of the first post!:)
Marco.
Whaddya mean? This thread was started at 9.56am, two weeks ago tomorrow. Scroll back and check the time of the first post!:)
Marco.
That's not what it says on the poll. It says: "This poll will close on 06-08-2018 at 09:57".
https://i.imgur.com/rL0gg1D.jpg
:lol: :eyebrows:
Ah ok, the system, in that respect, must make a small time allowance. Anyway, time's running out, so get yer votes in!
Marco.
thats it then,all votes are void,lets start again! :lol:
thats it then,all votes are void,lets start again! :lol:
Looks like we are heading for a Stewards Enquiry on this.
Is this referendum advisory?
<just mucking around here, not being serious>
Meantime I'm still searching for more images of ladies playing with instruments as ordered earlier.
Looks like we will continue to allow political discussion here on AoS.
So, please remember to engage in any future discussion in a calm, cool and gentlemanly manner: stick to the facts and do not resort to name calling, insults or ad hominem.
Audio Al
06-08-2018, 14:40
Oh God NO :doh:
thats it then,all votes are void,lets start again! :lol:
Is the Russian vote in yet?
Oh God NO :doh:
Don't worry Al - we can start a new poll on posts about Christmas! :D
Is the Russian vote in yet?
It is, as well as the postal vote from Florida.
Yes, and look out for a Tweet from Donald Trump later!
Marco.
Audio Al
06-08-2018, 15:09
Don't worry Al - we can start a new poll on posts about Christmas! :D
141 now :D:christmas:
141 now :D:christmas:
Is that 141 'for'? How many 'against'?
Audio Al
06-08-2018, 15:20
Is that 141 'for'? How many 'against'?
Fake news :)
141 now :D:christmas:
Tell you what, with this incessant bloody heat we're having, I'll be looking forward to some snow!!!
Marco.
Audio Al
06-08-2018, 15:34
Tell you what, with this incessant bloody heat we're having, I'll be looking forward to some snow!!!
Marco.
Not long now and we will all be moaning how cold it is ;)
walpurgis
06-08-2018, 15:55
Not long now and we will all be moaning how cold it is ;)
I can cope with the cold, but this heat drives me up the wall.
I can cope with the cold, but this heat drives me up the wall.
Same here. I'm fine with two weeks of hot sunshine on holiday, but that does me for the rest of the year.
Not long now and we will all be moaning how cold it is ;)
Not me. I like the cold (out), and our house is lovely and toasty in winter, so bring it on!:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
06-08-2018, 17:55
Not looking forward to the increased gas bills though.
It's alright for you Marco, making your own gas.
Lol - recycled fart gas is both cheap and environmentally friendly!:D
Seriously though, we don't use so much gas, as the wood burner heats the whole house. No matter how cold it is outside. If necessary you can get it like a sauna inside, simply by burning some old bits of wood!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
06-08-2018, 18:49
Lol - recycled fart gas is both cheap and environmentally friendly!:D
Seriously though, we don't use so much gas, as the wood burner heats the whole house. No matter how cold it is outside, if necessary you can get it like a sauna inside, simply by burning some old bits of wood!:eyebrows:
Marco.
I've heard that big Tannoys can keep a wood burner going for hours :D Right I'm going to run away very quickly now.
The only Tannoys I've ever heard were some little jobbies in Richer Sounds.
Ha - my 'old wardrobes', from the 60s, are made of Formica, so it wouldn't be much good for using in a wood burner! :eyebrows:
It's always nice and cosy here in the winter, with the fire roaring (in time with my arse, lol), relaxing listening to choons....
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/4yOjeM.jpg
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
06-08-2018, 20:00
Methinks you're trying to test me - that's a Ditton 15xr. My mum had a pair of those and very nice they were too.
Yes it is, shweety, and a modified one with improved crossover, too - sounds fab....that is, when used along with the other one!:D
Marco.
Nice woodburner. Bet that has not seen any action recently!:lol:
Lol - not since May! And it most likely won't see any more now until October. Fantastic things, though, We had an open fire in the inglenook, before then, and it was great, but it used *so* much more fuel, and most of the heat went up the chimney! The wood burner is simply much more efficient.
For me, there's nothing quite as satisfying or comforting as a real log or coal fire. I simply can't get on with electric or gas heaters, as they give me a headache, and I find the heat that they produce rather stuffy/oppressive and unnatural.
Marco.
Coal on the bottom, logs on top. Best of both worlds. I love the smell and flame of logs, but love that a coal base will last 4hrs+ done right, and will immediately ignite any logs thrown on top.
Yup, Neil, that's exactly what we do! But it has to be smokeless coal:)
One thing I don't miss in the summer months is cleaning the bugger out and setting it every day!!
Marco.
Yup, Neil, that's exactly what we do! But it has to be smokeless coal[emoji4]
One thing I don't miss in the summer months is cleaning the bugger out and setting it every day!!
Marco.
All the way, Excel smokeless for me, or ‘Superheat’ if you are careful as it’s a bit cokey for a stove - am not allowed to use household coal in my area anyway.
Hmm yeah my chimney is due a clean... I never really bother cleaning out the stove though, except for removing the ashpan and cleaning the glass. [emoji6]
Lol - I'm a bit of a clean fiend, in that respect, so clean ours out everyday, including polishing the glass 'window', as I like to see the flames! We paid a lot of money for ours too (around £1500, it's a Charnwood Country 4), so I always look after things that have cost a significant amount of dosh:)
Our chimney is cleaned once a year, just before the wood burner is about to used for winter, which is usually around October. We have a very friendly chimney sweep!
Marco.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.