Long Phono Cables and Short Speaker Cables or Vice Versa.

[JohnG]

The new listening room is imminent, wifey has been clearing out the unused bedroom with a sack barrow.
I will have a freedom to do as I like very soon with the room layout.
As a provisional set up, I intend on mounting a gallows bracket turntable stand to a wall.
I have recently bought 6 metre phono cables to allow for most positions.
I also have 1.8 metre interconnect to allow me to split the rack and have the power amps next to the speakers, that will be 3.6 metre centres..
If this happens, I can use a 800 - 1200mm speaker cable,
depending on how close the speakers are to the rear wall.
I,ve never thought of the different configurations with cables, due to room set up limitations, any thoughts on the methods would be much appreciated.

[Yomanze]

Don't worry about it, just pick the combination of lengths that suits your room & kit layout the best. If you put your amps near your speakers, then you can save some money, especially considering you've already bought some interconnects.

[Barry]

As Neil says, since you already have some long (6m) interconnects use them to place the power amp nearer the speakers. That way you can use shorter speaker leads.

That is what I do in my system: using monoblock amplifiers placed directly behind each speaker connected using <1 metre of 6mm2 speaker cable, and connected back to the preamp (at my listening position) using 15m of balanced-line cable. (Both my preamp and power amps use true dual-differential balanced inputs and outputs.)

[Clive]

Whether long i/cs or long speaker cables sound better will depend on the system but in general I find that long i/cs and very short speakers cable to be best and usually costs less too.

[Sherwood]

Whether long i/cs or long speaker cables sound better will depend on the system but in general I find that long i/cs and very short speakers cable to be best and usually costs less too.

Even more so if you can use xlrs as i/c cables!

[Barry]

Even more so if you can use xlrs as i/c cables!

Agreed, but only if they are truly balanced - otherwise there is no advantage.

[DSJR]

Some amp 'systems - pre and power' were designed from the outset to have long interconnects to remote power amps and it was a specific recommendation when I had the AVI pre and power (the preamp especially sounded better to me used this way) and I suspect most 'conventional' pre and power amp setups are fine with short speaker cables. Obviously there are amps (often with passive preamps) that may not be at their best set this way, but these may possibly be an exception.

Hopefully 'Rothwell' and others can confirm, but the general view is to use low capacitance interconnects over longish domestic runs (I'm thinking single ended coax or mic cables wired for single ended rather than balanced [usually one core hot, t'other return and the screen connected to the return at one end is how I did it]) and still go for a chunky good gauge speaker cable, if only in very short lengths... - heck, even the geriatric Quad 33 preamp could be used to 'drive' a good few yards (!) of cable to the power amp I remember - i don't have the manual to hand and shall need to download it to confirm...

[JohnG]

Thank you for your replies.

It would seem that I have the options with non balanced I'cs as I have in my possession newly acquired 6 metre Yannis Tome and
1.8 metre Klotz MC5000. As well as the usual 0.5 and 1 metre types

I will have to experiment with speaker cables, mine at present are ancient.
So a good item to use as comparison to other types.
I am of the thought, "Van Damme Clear Sheathing" is well liked by the affordable cable supporters.
There has been talk of making the monoblocks balanced,
" I think 3 Pin XLR ". This was discussed as a resolve to a ground loop issue.
Will a Pre Amp need to be Balanced as well to work with the Power Amps, or will RCA/XLR Connectors be OK ?
The Power Amps have their own Pot's built in so can be used to adjust volume, without the Pre Amp Connected.
The real unforeseen appears to be how a Passive Pre Amp will drive a I'c
over a 6 metre distance. I would assume it would be placed as close to the turntable as possible next to the Phonostage. As I not aware of Phonostages being encouraged to use long I'cs.
Out of curiosity how does a CD Player, or DAC function driving long IC's.
As I said this is a subject, I can't recall discussing in the past.

[Barry]

CD players and DACs usually have low output impedance, so the 600pF capacitance, or so, of the 6m cable shouldn't be a problem. The same can't be said of passive volume controls (regardless of whether resistor-based or transformer-based); these have a variable output impedance, depending on the volume setting, and interact strongly with the cable, so it is preferable to use short interconnects.

Ideally long interconnects need to be balanced, but for 6m lengths unbalanced cables will be OK. Regardless of whether the preamp and/or power amp is balanced or not, if you use XLR/RCA adaptors the overall arrangement will be unbalanced.

[Pharos]

General principle is to keep leads carrying high current as short as possible, so short speaker cables.

If you are using an unbalanced pre O/P into a balanced I/P that is fine, but not the other way round.

[walpurgis]

General principle is to keep leads carrying high current as short as possible

Hmm. That presents a problem. I'm some distance from the nearest electricity power station. ;)

[Bksabath]

The Klotz MC5000 is superb
and I am using 1 meter long supremus from amp to speaker
Yes don't one love those 100mt long gig cables, after the gig thy are quite often covered in Vomit...

[Bksabath]

Hmm. That presents a problem. I'm some distance from the nearest electricity power station. ;)
well move house
At one time GF was complaining that possible new next door neighbours had a "do not enter danger of death" sticker on garage door I managed to explain that it was the sub station and that electricity was going to be cheaper as it was so close, not true, but she fell for it.
that was the best sounding mains ever :D

[Macca]

T.
The real unforeseen appears to be how a Passive Pre Amp will drive a I'c
over a 6 metre distance. I would assume it would be placed as close to the turntable as possible next to the Phonostage. As I not aware of Phonostages being encouraged to use long I'cs.
Out of curiosity how does a CD Player, or DAC function driving long IC's.
As I said this is a subject, I can't recall discussing in the past.

If you are using a passive pre then I'd say you are better off with short interconnects and long speaker cable. Depends on a number of factors I know but you could lose a bit of drive.


A CD player or DAC should have no problems driving any length of interconnect.

[walpurgis]

If you are using a passive pre then I'd say you are better off with short interconnects and long speaker cable. Depends on a number of factors I know but you could lose a bit of drive.

I reckon so.

A buffer stage after the passive could help.

[Yomanze]

Thank you for your replies.

I am of the thought, "Van Damme Clear Sheathing" is well liked by the affordable cable supporters.



Yep, I would use the Van Damme UP-LCOFC speaker cable. [emoji4] 4mm will be fine for your needs.

[Yomanze]

I reckon so.

A buffer stage after the passive could help.

Indeed. A passive needs all the dynamics and slam it can get, and long output interconnects / higher source output impedance can suck this out.

[Barry]

General principle is to keep leads carrying high current as short as possible, so short speaker cables.

If you are using an unbalanced pre O/P into a balanced I/P that is fine, but not the other way round.

Not necessarily true - I have run my Levinson preamp (which has a true dual-differential balanced output) into the unbalanced input of various Quad amplifiers quite successfully on several occasions. However some sources, such as preamps, having balanced outputs don't like having the 'cold' side of the output shorted to earth; which is probably why you thought it was not good to run balanced sources into unbalanced loads.