View Full Version : Amplifiers any good..?
Haselsh1
09-07-2018, 13:49
OK you lot, have you any experience with this guy and his amplifiers..?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-HAND-MADE-CLASS-A-AMPLIFIER/132618967623?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52975%26meid%3D05ad5d1e1d0e4d d78e9aa73ecd50baf5%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3 D15%26sd%3D232840736832%26itm%3D132618967623&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ac2bae90c-837d-11e8-a3d0-74dbd1805b09%7Cparentrq%3A7f466e221640ab45511fa229 fff7a046%7Ciid%3A1
His feedback as a seller is bloody good but £860 odd quid could be a bit of a risk. If you'd rather not post in public then please PM me.
Thanks in advance for any comments constructive or otherwise.
This would compliment my current power amp, it would not replace it.
walpurgis
09-07-2018, 13:57
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall seeing these or very similar amps offered by a seller in eastern Europe.
Bigman80
09-07-2018, 14:02
OK you lot, have you any experience with this guy and his amplifiers..?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-HAND-MADE-CLASS-A-AMPLIFIER/132618967623?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52975%26meid%3D05ad5d1e1d0e4d d78e9aa73ecd50baf5%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3 D15%26sd%3D232840736832%26itm%3D132618967623&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ac2bae90c-837d-11e8-a3d0-74dbd1805b09%7Cparentrq%3A7f466e221640ab45511fa229 fff7a046%7Ciid%3A1
His feedback as a seller is bloody good but £860 odd quid could be a bit of a risk. If you'd rather not post in public then please PM me.
Thanks in advance for any comments constructive or otherwise.
This would compliment my current power amp, it would not replace it.Been intrigued myself but something doesn't feel right about him making money off a design he got for free and one that is often available as a kit.
I know not everyone has the knowledge to build the kit so he can charge a fee for his time and skills but I don't know what ratio of the fee is skill v cost.
Feedback is good, no reason to doubt the quality of his work.
anthonyTD
09-07-2018, 14:43
Its a good price for something hand made, or assembled in the UK! :)
A firiend of mine has recently purchased the parts to build his own version over the winter.:)
A...
I've seen his listing and his builds seem high class. I've also considered buying from him.
However for a custom build and in view of the relative high costs I personally would visit him, have a demo and generally discuss things before committing to buying. Actually seeing, hearing and discussing things will give you a much better feel for things.
Via Tapatalk
Shaun -- not at all related to your post: Nice camera in your avatar pic! Mamiya RZ or RB, is it? Still shooting film? Monochrome or colour?
Me: Avid B&W photographer here, hence spotting the camera immediately. All film, mostly 6x6 and 6x9, with a bit of 135 when travelling. Building up a darkroom again after 25 year absence. Wonderful creative hobby to balance the technical side of my life (career).
Curious to hear what you're into...
Best,
Svend
hifinutt
09-07-2018, 16:39
yes i know someone who has bought from him and is very very enthusiastic about his products . i have considered myself his products , i don`t know how he does it for the price really . i can`t comment on the design but this chap is well pleased
There is no doubting the quality of the workmanship. I also wouldn't have any concerns about a third party copying a design that has been placed in the public domain.
But I suspect it is not a pure Class A design: the quoted specification quotes 60W into both 8Ohm and 4Ohms, whereas of course the power should double if the load impedance is halved. Apart from that, I regard £860 as being quite reasonable for a true dual-mono power amplifier; one which can accept a balanced-line input, and one built to such a high standard.
It seems to me that the guy is selling mainly Nelson Pass First Watt designs. I doubt that he has Papa's permission to do so,
speedracer
09-07-2018, 18:43
I don't see the issue with buying an amp made from a public domain design. I know someone who has the F5 version of this amp, & indeed I have heard it in my system, & very nice it is too. Workmanship is very good as is fit & finish. Needs about 20 mins before it gives its all, which is less than my valve amp needs. If I were not so dedicated to valves I would be happy to use one of these.
Despite the fact that we all like to outsmart the market place I think we have to accept that in life and Hi Fi you pretty much get what you pay for.
If a product doesn't justify its price tag it will pretty soon get found out and either get replaced by another model or we will see lots of adverts for 'much loved amps' coming to the second hand market after a few months of ownership. Just have a look at all the secondhand Chinese amps out there.
If its under priced, then a few lucky people will get a bargain until demand outstrips supply and issues occur such as unfulfilled orders and worse still ruined reputations and closure. Suppliers of kit are not charities and will always find ways to charge what the market will tolerate.
So the natural laws of supply and demand come into play.
Despite the fact that we all like to outsmart the market place I think we have to accept that in life and Hi Fi you pretty much get what you pay for.
If a product doesn't justify its price tag it will pretty soon get found out and either get replaced by another model or we will see lots of adverts for 'much loved amps' coming to the second hand market after a few months of ownership. Just have a look at all the secondhand Chinese amps out there.
If its under priced, then a few lucky people will get a bargain until demand outstrips supply and issues occur such as unfulfilled orders and worse still ruined reputations and closure. Suppliers of kit are not charities and will always find ways to charge what the market will tolerate.
So the natural laws of supply and demand come into play.
Well said...
Russell
The way I see it is you start out building them in your kitchen or whatever, you want to sell some and you want to develop a rep so you take your time to get them bang on and you sell them at a bargain price. Your overheads are low and you are not really costing your time. Your probably not even paying yourself minimum wage.
After a while you get a bit of a rep and move into a small workshop, maybe get some help in. You decide to do a higher end product now you have some reputation and that goes down well. After a few years that becomes your bread and butter so you stop doing the cheaper stuff altogether. By now you've a firm with maybe 20 people on the payroll. But your name is a byword for quality.
Then you get an offer from a much bigger company to buy you out, name, everything, you will stay on as a self-employed consultant to smooth the changeover. The money is too good to resist - you could retire if you wanted. So you sell.
Later down the line they will let you go as a consultant and gradually start using your brand cachet to sell cheap consumer tat from China at a premium price. That works for a while but the reputation erodes with time until finally the marque is discontinued or sold to the Chinese for buttons.
From the pics the quality seems good, no sense of corner cutting, good components and metalwork.
The way I see it is you start out building them in your kitchen or whatever, you want to sell some and you want to develop a rep so you take your time to get them bang on and you sell them at a bargain price. Your overheads are low and you are not really costing your time. Your probably not even paying yourself minimum wage.
After a while you get a bit of a rep and move into a small workshop, maybe get some help in. You decide to do a higher end product now you have some reputation and that goes down well. After a few years that becomes your bread and butter so you stop doing the cheaper stuff altogether. By now you've a firm with maybe 20 people on the payroll. But your name is a byword for quality.
Then you get an offer from a much bigger company to buy you out, name, everything, you will stay on as a self-employed consultant to smooth the changeover. The money is too good to resist - you could retire if you wanted. So you sell.
Later down the line they will let you go as a consultant and gradually start using your brand cachet to sell cheap consumer tat from China at a premium price. That works for a while but the reputation erodes with time until finally the marque is discontinued or sold to the Chinese for buttons.
I'm waiting for that to happen to the former IAG portfolio of companies (including the jewels in the crown: Leak and Quad) :(
I'm waiting for that to happen to the former IAG portfolio of companies (including the jewels in the crown: Leak and Quad) :(
Post-Brexit they will all be made in the Netherlands ... in a factory next to the Rowntrees' complex.
Haselsh1
10-07-2018, 08:33
Shaun -- not at all related to your post: Nice camera in your avatar pic! Mamiya RZ or RB, is it? Still shooting film? Monochrome or colour?
Me: Avid B&W photographer here, hence spotting the camera immediately. All film, mostly 6x6 and 6x9, with a bit of 135 when travelling. Building up a darkroom again after 25 year absence. Wonderful creative hobby to balance the technical side of my life (career).
Curious to hear what you're into...
Best,
Svend
Well, the camera in the photo was a Mamiya RB67 in which I mainly used Fuji Acros 100 film that I developed in FX39 solution when it was available. I gave up film based photography back in 2016 when I bought my first ever full frame DSLR. I first dabbled with digital in 2003 but thought it more than a bit of a novelty. Not anymore in 2018. I now get the images I always wanted but sadly not of the artistic quality that silver halides give. Traditional photography gives a quality that I very much doubt digital will ever be able to mimic. Digital is bloody good but in a totally different way, in hi-fi and in imaging.
Would I ever go back to medium format film based photography..? Of course I bloody would..! Especially if I had the type of property that would sustain it.
Haselsh1
10-07-2018, 08:37
Mmm... I was once bitten by the Chinese junk, sorry, amplifier technology. I lost over 400 notes in such a purchase and so am seriously wary of doing something like it again. In fact, let me say, having thought about all of your comments here, the good ones and the OK ones, I will not be risking money in the purchase of something so unknown especially when I currently own the finest valve amp I have ever heard which as I am sure you know was built in China like all of the IAG stuff. Thank you all for your comments as they helped a lot.
Haselsh1
10-07-2018, 08:38
Post-Brexit they will all be made in the Netherlands ... in a factory next to the Rowntrees' complex.
LOL, there could be some truth in that :eyebrows:
Haselsh1
10-07-2018, 08:40
There is no doubting the quality of the workmanship. I also wouldn't have any concerns about a third party copying a design that has been placed in the public domain.
But I suspect it is not a pure Class A design: the quoted specification quotes 60W into both 8Ohm and 4Ohms, whereas of course the power should double if the load impedance is halved. Apart from that, I regard £860 as being quite reasonable for a true dual-mono power amplifier; one which can accept a balanced-line input, and one built to such a high standard.
Barry, yes indeed, his figures do not make sense. I think it is more likely to be similar to my old Musical Fidelity A100 but this one is clearly dual mono. Then again my old Yarland Pro 200 SE was dual mono and hard wired except of course, it wasn't.
walpurgis
10-07-2018, 09:20
Anybody interested in Class A solid state amps could check out the kits and components available from China, based on the John Linsley Hood designs.
If you do an ebay worldwide search for 'hood amplifier' or '1969 amplifier' you should find a few. I've been having a look at them myself.
You can of course buy a ready made version, but a kit appeals to me, as I can then use a proper UK spec mains transformer.
Well, the camera in the photo was a Mamiya RB67 in which I mainly used Fuji Acros 100 film that I developed in FX39 solution when it was available. I gave up film based photography back in 2016 when I bought my first ever full frame DSLR. I first dabbled with digital in 2003 but thought it more than a bit of a novelty. Not anymore in 2018. I now get the images I always wanted but sadly not of the artistic quality that silver halides give. Traditional photography gives a quality that I very much doubt digital will ever be able to mimic. Digital is bloody good but in a totally different way, in hi-fi and in imaging.
Would I ever go back to medium format film based photography..? Of course I bloody would..! Especially if I had the type of property that would sustain it.
Interesting comments, Shaun. Not wishing to take this thread off-course, I will only say that I agree wholeheartedly that digital doesn't have the look of film. Over the past few years I have been able to get around some of the major time commitment needed for darkroom printing by using a hybrid process - shoot on film, scan into digital and print archivally from there. It retains most of the look of film, and the results can be excellent. Still, silver prints have a depth that really can't be replicated, and that last little bit of that elusive quality is something I haven't found yet with the hybrid process.
With that, back to your amplifiers... :)
Svend
Haselsh1
10-07-2018, 16:29
Interesting comments, Shaun. Not wishing to take this thread off-course, I will only say that I agree wholeheartedly that digital doesn't have the look of film. Over the past few years I have been able to get around some of the major time commitment needed for darkroom printing by using a hybrid process - shoot on film, scan into digital and print archivally from there. It retains most of the look of film, and the results can be excellent. Still, silver prints have a depth that really can't be replicated, and that last little bit of that elusive quality is something I haven't found yet with the hybrid process.
With that, back to your amplifiers... :)
Svend
Apologies for the thread drift here. Back in about 1985 I bought my then Bronica medium format setup and used a De Vere cold cathode head enlarger. A few years later I started to use a Wista cherry wood field camera with the same enlarger. Back then I seemed to have so much spare time and of course plenty of room and dedication. At that time I also called on my time in the seventies of using warm toned chlorobromide printing papers and started using Agfa Record Rapid exhibition paper. It was at this time that it became very clear that a lot of what makes silver halide photography so damn unique is the sheer quality of the printing paper and the fact that these papers used a lot of Cadmium salts in their formulation. This is now banned. I once went to a photo gallery in Glasgow with a friend to look at some work and asked her if she could pick out the 'digits' compared to the 'real' photographs. Of course she could. It was so bloody obvious that silver halide prints produce a 'depth' that goes way deeper and beyond the actual paper. Digital prints in comparison resemble a photocopy that only exists on the surface of the paper. Can I prove this..? Yes I can, I have both types of print here next to me. In spite of this, I definitely agree that a scanned negative is better than a digital only print in terms of 'hidden' quality in the same way that CD and vinyl are just so bloody different. There is a real difference in exhibition prints produced by each method but since the banning of heavy metals in photographic emulsions I think the real difference is now not so great.
Haselsh1
10-07-2018, 16:31
Anybody interested in Class A solid state amps could check out the kits and components available from China, based on the John Linsley Hood designs.
If you do an ebay worldwide search for 'hood amplifier' or '1969 amplifier' you should find a few. I've been having a look at them myself.
You can of course buy a ready made version, but a kit appeals to me, as I can then use a proper UK spec mains transformer.
Geoff, the building of a kit by me is a no go area I am afraid. With your comments in mind though I used to use a Linsley Hood two box phono stage for bloody years back in the nineties and damn fine it was. I only sold it to buy an EAR.
Apologies for the thread drift here. Back in about 1985 I bought my then Bronica medium format setup and used a De Vere cold cathode head enlarger. A few years later I started to use a Wista cherry wood field camera with the same enlarger. Back then I seemed to have so much spare time and of course plenty of room and dedication. At that time I also called on my time in the seventies of using warm toned chlorobromide printing papers and started using Agfa Record Rapid exhibition paper. It was at this time that it became very clear that a lot of what makes silver halide photography so damn unique is the sheer quality of the printing paper and the fact that these papers used a lot of Cadmium salts in their formulation. This is now banned. I once went to a photo gallery in Glasgow with a friend to look at some work and asked her if she could pick out the 'digits' compared to the 'real' photographs. Of course she could. It was so bloody obvious that silver halide prints produce a 'depth' that goes way deeper and beyond the actual paper. Digital prints in comparison resemble a photocopy that only exists on the surface of the paper. Can I prove this..? Yes I can, I have both types of print here next to me. In spite of this, I definitely agree that a scanned negative is better than a digital only print in terms of 'hidden' quality in the same way that CD and vinyl are just so bloody different. There is a real difference in exhibition prints produced by each method but since the banning of heavy metals in photographic emulsions I think the real difference is now not so great.
Agreed on all counts! No more thread drift :), so I'll leave it there. We can chat offline if you wish. Happy to talk photography any time...
Regards,
Svend
jandl100
11-07-2018, 06:50
Anybody interested in Class A solid state amps could check out the kits and components available from China, based on the John Linsley Hood designs.
If you do an ebay worldwide search for 'hood amplifier' or '1969 amplifier' you should find a few. I've been having a look at them myself.
You can of course buy a ready made version, but a kit appeals to me, as I can then use a proper UK spec mains transformer.
Yep, I had a Nobsound :D NS-02G integrated amp using the JLH circuit - really good, cost me about £100 used. I've heard far worse for far more - only 10wpc, though, but that's fine with most speakers imo if you aren't a headbanger.
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound%C2%AE-NS-02G-Perfect-finished-Amplifier/dp/B00WTNXWOC
https://i.imgur.com/gqozGiA.jpg
Some online searching will dig out forum quotes calling it a mini-Krell (as a compliment ;)) - there's even some photoshopped images of that.
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages-na.ssl-images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51E2QS39mIL.jpg&f=1
It is a very fine amp. :) Probably the best class A solid state I have heard (I am generally not a fan of them).
Haselsh1
11-07-2018, 09:36
Oh cheers for that Jerry. It certainly looks the business. 10 Wpc is certainly no problem as I use my present amp in triode mode often at 20 Wpc.
jandl100
11-07-2018, 10:06
Yes, iirc the Nobsound is the 1990s re-design.
And yes, the casework is top notch!
Some online searching will dig out forum quotes calling it a mini-Krell (as a compliment ;)).
And like always, you would be an absolute mug to believe everything you read on line. They may have copied a circuit diagram, but savings will have been made in the quality of components, unless of course you're impressed by pretty casework
John Linsley Hood revisited his original design sometime in the 1980s (or 90s?) in one of the electronics magazines. His article incorporated some slight changes and improvements to the original design as well as explaining the evolution of the design. I'll look it up and post a link if anyone is interested.
Building one from scratch should be quite possible, but the quality of the casework/heatsinks etc. from Nobsound et al. make scratch-building seem pointless.
The JLH Class A design and subsequent improvement were published in Wireless World magazine. I built one, then within a few months cannibalised it to build the 10W Nelson-Jones Class A amp (also published in Wireless World), finally to abandon that in favour of a Sugden 12.5W Class A design (I knew someone who knew Jim Sugden. so was able to obtain the PCBs and mains transformer at cost).
And like always, you would be an absolute mug to believe everything you read on line. They may have copied a circuit diagram, but savings will have been made in the quality of components, unless of course you're impressed by pretty casework
Agreed - especially the quality of the capacitors.
jandl100
11-07-2018, 13:04
And like always, you would be an absolute mug to believe everything you read on line. They may have copied a circuit diagram, but savings will have been made in the quality of components, unless of course you're impressed by pretty casework
:ner:
I'm impressed by good sound.
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