New phono stage: valve or solid state?

[pankon]

Hi am a long time Croft fan (and customer) since 1989.

I am in the process of having my Croft Micro 25R upgraded to Micro 25RS Line-only. This means I will lose the built-in phono stage and I will need a new, external one.

Logically, I am considering a Croft RIAA RS, which unfortunately I am not able to audition (as I live in Greece, and it's not easy to find such a model without ordering it). I have two concerns with the Croft phono stage: a) it accepts only high output cartridges, e.g. MM/MI/HOMC and b) has no settings (gain, loading, etc.) at all for matching it to the cartridge at hand. I currently have a Cartridge Man Music Maker III (high output moving iron), but what happens if I decide to go for a low output MC? I have been thinking of the following: Benz Micro Wood SL, Shelter 501 MkIII and Lyra Delos. This means I would need a SUT upstream the Croft RIAA, which perplexes things.

Alternatively, I have auditioned an ASR Mini Basis Exclusive (German solid state phono stage), which sounded very nice to me and is quite flexible, as it can accommodate both MM and MC, just by flipping some internal switches to set gain, loading, etc. But I have not been able to put the ASR against a Croft RIAA phono stage.

So, comments/ideas, please? Should I go for the valve or the solid state phono stage? Any other phono stage alternatives (models) perhaps, of the same of better sound quality?

Thanks in advance!

Panos

[Bigman80]

Hi am a long time Croft fan (and customer) since 1989.

I am in the process of having my Croft Micro 25R upgraded to Micro 25RS Line-only. This means I will lose the built-in phono stage and I will need a new, external one.

Logically, I am considering a Croft RIAA RS, which unfortunately I am not able to audition (as I live in Greece, and it's not easy to find such a model without ordering it). I have two concerns with the Croft phono stage: a) it accepts only high output cartridges, e.g. MM/MI/HOMC and b) has no settings (gain, loading, etc.) at all for matching it to the cartridge at hand. I currently have a Cartridge Man Music Maker III (high output moving iron), but what happens if I decide to go for a low output MC? I have been thinking of the following: Benz Micro Wood SL, Shelter 501 MkIII and Lyra Delos. This means I would need a SUT upstream the Croft RIAA, which perplexes things.

Alternatively, I have auditioned an ASR Mini Basis Exclusive (German solid state phono stage), which sounded very nice to me and is quite flexible, as it can accommodate both MM and MC, just by flipping some internal switches to set gain, loading, etc. But I have not been able to put the ASR against a Croft RIAA phono stage.

So, comments/ideas, please? Should I go for the valve or the solid state phono stage? Any other phono stage alternatives (models) perhaps, of the same of better sound quality?

Thanks in advance!

PanosFor a long time, I've sworn by Valve phonostages but recently a Solid-state jobbie made me see the value in the format.

There are few Phonostage that make me want to spend some money and less that will do what you want.

If you like valves, want flexibility for loading and also something that does MM/MC then I think it's worth having a chat with Firebottle about his Vivant. I can't think of other Valve phonostages that have that option.

Personally, I'd avoid the need for SUTs, it's a minefield.

If you go Solid-state, then you'll have to search on the internet elsewhere for information on the best Solid-state phonostage I've heard.

Then there's the Paradise phonostage. If you can find one that is!

[montesquieu]

Hi am a long time Croft fan (and customer) since 1989.

I am in the process of having my Croft Micro 25R upgraded to Micro 25RS Line-only. This means I will lose the built-in phono stage and I will need a new, external one.

Logically, I am considering a Croft RIAA RS, which unfortunately I am not able to audition (as I live in Greece, and it's not easy to find such a model without ordering it). I have two concerns with the Croft phono stage: a) it accepts only high output cartridges, e.g. MM/MI/HOMC and b) has no settings (gain, loading, etc.) at all for matching it to the cartridge at hand. I currently have a Cartridge Man Music Maker III (high output moving iron), but what happens if I decide to go for a low output MC? I have been thinking of the following: Benz Micro Wood SL, Shelter 501 MkIII and Lyra Delos. This means I would need a SUT upstream the Croft RIAA, which perplexes things.

Alternatively, I have auditioned an ASR Mini Basis Exclusive (German solid state phono stage), which sounded very nice to me and is quite flexible, as it can accommodate both MM and MC, just by flipping some internal switches to set gain, loading, etc. But I have not been able to put the ASR against a Croft RIAA phono stage.

So, comments/ideas, please? Should I go for the valve or the solid state phono stage? Any other phono stage alternatives (models) perhaps, of the same of better sound quality?

Thanks in advance!

Panos

First of all I think you are sensible to stick with a good quality valve phono stage as the basis of your vinyl setup, there is no need to have it adjustable 47k ohm is fine.

There are some good solid state ones around but in general, valve phono stages are (in my experience) tend to be more musical for the same amount of spend, though not necessarily quieter or more detailed. The Croft RS may well be a sensible proposition (I haven't heard one personally) but there are quite a few others around that I'm sure would be of equal quality for the same sort of cash.

All the MC cartridges you mention are straightforward in terms of matching, with plenty of SUT options available to suit. SUTs are not anything to be afraid of but expect to spend almost as much on one as you did on your phono stage to get optimum results. Alternatively a good adjustable head amp would allow some flexibility and can approach what a decent but expensive SUT can do while costing less cash and introducing fewer challenges around hum/placement/ground loops etc - all of these are surmountable but can and do put some people off.

Personally I wouldn't bother with an adjustable MC/MM solid state phono stage, most in my experience have disappointed compared to alternative approaches - a single gain stage for the whole lot is a tough ask and a good MM stage + decent SUT or head amp will almost always provide a better sound in my experience.

[STD305M]

A good head amp is the way i went and I've never looked back

Steve

[montesquieu]

A good head amp is the way i went and I've never looked back

Steve

I'm an SUT veteran and in general the result is better so long as you use a decent one .. but a head amp is certainly a simpler option for many.

Having said that, a top quality head amp is in the same cost bracket as a good SUT.

[alphaGT]

First question, how much are you looking to spend? Phono amps cover the map, from £100 to £10,000.

Having a price point in mind can help narrow the field. I’ve often thought one should spread their money evenly, approximately the same amount for the ‘table, the arm, the cartridge, and the preamp. But that is not a hard fast rule, and good deals can offset it too.

Russell

[pankon]

My budget is around £1.5-2K for the phono stage (+ SUT, if required).

By the way, the rest of my system consists of Croft Micro 25 RS line-only preamp (soon to be received from Glenn) + Croft Series 7R monoblocks (upgraded to 110W / channel) + Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th anniversary.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[ianlenco]

I've got one of these http://www.mingda.co.uk/audio-detail-nv-o6-nuvistor-phono-stage.html and I think it is quite excellent. Full of nuvistor valves with a separate linear power supply. Mark is also a real gent and supports his products.

[friendly]

When did you change to that one Ian. Thought you were settled with the tiny box you had.

[oldius]

There is no better solution, just follow your own ears.
My favourite phono stage was the Leema Agena. It was expensive but sounded superb and was very adjustable. I compared it to a range of stages, including SUT and head amp offerings, as well as equivalent active competitors. It was the best solution to my ears.

Now, however, I have a vintage integrated that includes a high quality phono stage. I prefer the overall sound I am achieving with the speakers I now use. As ever, listening is imperative.

[ianlenco]

When did you change to that one Ian. Thought you were settled with the tiny box you had.

Settled me? Basically changed when I heard the Audio Detail. The Nighthawk was very very good, the Audio Detail is better.

[pankon]

Has anyone had the chance to audition an ASR Mini Basis Exclusive or a Sugden Masterclass PA-4?

Thanks

[Wakefield Turntables]

I have the masterclass PA-4. It surpassed the Trichord Diablo+NCPSU and a Whest 3.0 (one of the special editions), Lehmann black cube and a few others. I use it with the Ortofon ST80SE SUT with a Cadenza black and it's not been surpassed in years. BUT the MM stage on it's own is easily bettered and I prefer a tweaked EAR834 clone and to my ears (so far) is the best MM stage that I've heard for the price point paid. I've heard several Croft MM stages (yes I own that as well), and would say the Clone beats that hands down. The Paradise phonostage (which I own) is something altogether and you really need to get it properly tweaked to get the best from it (Speak to Si of this forum).

[Firebottle]

.... a tweaked EAR309 clone and to my ears (so far) is the best MM stage that I've heard for the price point paid.

Just to be accurate Andy do you mean the EAR 834 clone.

I notice your signature also refers to an EAR 3009 clone? Finger trouble?

Didn't know you also had a Paradise, I will have to get myself up to you for a listen.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Just to be accurate Andy do you mean the EAR 834 clone.

I notice your signature also refers to an EAR 3009 clone? Finger trouble?

Didn't know you also had a Paradise, I will have to get myself up to you for a listen.

It says EAR834 in the post. Yep I have a 4 box paradise :eyebrows:. Look at post 374 https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?14850-Garrard-301-restoration-project/page8