Do USB cables make an audible difference?

[CageyH]

I have connected my media server directly to my Caiman II DAC with an A to B USB cable.
It is just a bog standard cable.

Will investing in a better cable make a difference, and if so what is a good cable at a sensible price point?

[Boyse6748]

In my humble opinion... NO! If you can improve on “0’s & 1’s” then so be it!

Perhaps make them go faster (me thinks not), it’s digital not analogue.

Peter


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[struth]

not noticed any obvious difference tbh but a nice cable often fits better and looks better too. that doesnt mean there are no differences just ive not noticed it.

[walpurgis]

'Digital' cables vary in their effect on the sound. I make digital interconnects that improve on the sound presented compared to maybe 90% of other digital cables and are better than any optical cable I've used. Mine are RCA Phono singles for use with CD transport/player and DAC. If anybody doesn't believe an improvement is possible, they can try one!

[Boyse6748]

'Digital' cables vary in their effect on the sound. I make digital interconnects that improve on the sound presented compared to maybe 90% of other digital cables and are better than any optical cable I've used. Mine are RCA Phono singles for use with CD transport/player and DAC. If anybody doesn't believe an improvement is possible, they can try one!

I don’t doubt that statement but does this also pertain to USB cables?

I only ask as I feel I have wasted a fair amount of money on Supra USB Cables (Although they are made to fairly high Quality). Sound-wise, not a jot of difference to the bog standard cheap cables.

Unless of course... this old git is deaf!!!


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[struth]

i was referring to usb too

[jandl100]

Will investing in a better cable make a difference, and if so what is a good cable at a sensible price point?

Yes, I hear worthwhile improvement with my WireWorld Starlight USB cable.

I didn't believe it would but a friend suggested (nagged) I try one and I was very surprised at the obvious improvement.

[sq225917]

Buy the cheapest true 'USB Certified' cable you can find. Even most fancy USB cables aren't actually USB certified. Then you can be certain that it performs 100% to the USB specification.

[Stryder5]

I have connected my media server directly to my Caiman II DAC with an A to B USB cable.
It is just a bog standard cable.

Will investing in a better cable make a difference, and if so what is a good cable at a sensible price point?

Cables of any type seem to spark the usual comments, suggest you try your own ears.

I have a USB A to B Supra2 cable that I don't use, it's yours for the postage.

Gary

[CageyH]

Gary,

A kind offer - one condition though. If it does not make a difference I can send it back to you?

[walpurgis]

I don’t doubt that statement but does this also pertain to USB cables?

Quite probably. I was merely illustrating the fact that unlikely as it may seem, different 'digital' cables vary in how they affect the sound and some are audibly less detrimental than others.

[Primalsea]

If you wanted to dabble for little cost buy a half decent Lindy cable with the shortest length that you can and compare to a longer standard cable. At worst you are likely to have a cable with better contacts and better mechanical fit than the standard offering, not a bad thing for a cable that could potentially be fitted and forgotten about for a long time.

You’ll be surprised what a tarnished contact can do on a data cable.

[Boyse6748]

Geoff,

Never a doubt in my mind, “especially with digital RCA cables”.

However, I relegated all that cable stuff and gone direct streaming via Roon Sever to a MicroRendu and usb to my Mytek Brooklyn. (With the usual analogue RCA Connection to the Amp.

Bloody Fabulous.

Peter


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[Stryder5]

Gary,

A kind offer - one condition though. If it does not make a difference I can send it back to you?

Yep, not a problem.

[mikmas]

I tried a slightly expensive 'Atlas' USB cable for a giggle. Didn't find it a jot better than my usual Belkin or Lindy cheapo models.

Generally I find Lindy to be great quality at a great price for all my cable needs (I also have a fair few video type ones from them...)

[nonuffin]

Once had a brief play with a JIB Silver Arsenic USB cable and it was only brief with an £800 price tag. I don't normally dabble in streaming and such-like and as far as USB cables go I was firmly in the 1's and 0's camp thinking there is no way a USB cable can alter the sound for the better. Couldn't have been more wrong, it transformed the sound and if I was more involved with the digital aspects I would consider looking into upgrade USB cables for sure. Maybe not 800 notes worth!

[Ammonite Audio]

For me, USB cables can and do make an audible difference, but the question is "how much do you have to pay to get better sound quality?" Sadly, I don't think there's much relationship between price and performance here, but my £60 Kimber is audibly better than an inexpensive and supposedly genuine Belkin cable that I bought specially for the North West Audio Show. I'd be open to trying other USB cables out of curiosity, rather than intent to buy.

[CageyH]

That is the issue for me Hugo.
It is the price relative to the performance gain of 1's and 0's arriving at their destination unharmed.
I can understand that removing the power from the cable may be beneficial for audio use, but I can do this with insulation tape if needed.

[Gazjam]

Getting those 1’s and 0’s to your dac unharmed is a tougher nut to crack than many assume it is.

From personal experience USB isn’t the best way to connect to a Dac, the better (read: more expensive) cables sound better as they better mitigate the inherant problems with USB transfer.
USB cables can sound different..but I’d avoid USB if you can.

Sometimes if your using a laptop or PC its unavoidable, in that case I’d buy a USB to coax converter, the best one Ive heard (and owned back in the day) was a Musical Fidelity VLink 192.

[jandl100]

Sometimes if your using a laptop ot PC its unavoidable, in that case I’d buy a USB to coax converter, the best one Ive heard (and owned back in the day) was a Musical Fidelity VLink 192.

Yup, I use a Halide Bridge USB/co-ax converter. It was not a subtle improvement over a straight USB connection.

[CageyH]

Unless you still have your second converter, I guess I need something like this - https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appareils-hifi-interfaces-digitales/xmos-digital-interface-usb-24192khz-power-supply-230v-otg-p-10547.html

[Lawrence001]

Just to add, my Chord cable (it was the turquoise one whatever that's called) was a big improvement over a cheap basic cable. Would like to compare to a Lindy.

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[Yomanze]

Buy the cheapest true 'USB Certified' cable you can find. Even most fancy USB cables aren't actually USB certified. Then you can be certain that it performs 100% to the USB specification.

This.

[Yomanze]

Yup, I use a Halide Bridge USB/co-ax converter. It was not a subtle improvement over a straight USB connection.

You can borrow my AQVOX if you’d like for another step up for the Halide Bridge. [emoji4]

My favourite converter for sure. Captive USB lead means no cable swapping. :D

[Clive]

Regenerate the USB signal either just before the DAC or use a DAC which does this internally. This is massively reduces the need and desire for special USB cables.

I wish USB cables didn't matter but also I find cost doesn't relate to best SQ. Ferrite chokes on the USB cables can help and probably are mostly what's needed. My best USB cable which came with a USB drive has with a ferrite choke.

[NRG]

Ferrite chokes are a bit of a lottery, they may work or not. They alter the impedance of the cable and affect the signal rise times so their use needs to be thought through first. If the designers of the end devices have done their jobs properly then there is no call for ferrite chokes on USB cables, just use a certifed cable.

[Clive]

Ferrite chokes are a bit of a lottery, they may work or not. They alter the impedance of the cable and affect the signal rise times so their use needs to be thought through first. If the designers of the end devices have done their jobs properly then there is no call for ferrite chokes on USB cables, just use a certifed cable.

I'm aware the ferrite chokes aren't necessarily a good thing but they are very inexpensive to try. I can't say whether the cable that came with my Toshiba USB drive is certified or not but presumably Toshibiba put it there for a reason - I don't expect they was the product to cost 1 cent more than it needs to.

If a cable is certified does it mean the cable is perfect? What I'm getting at is if the device at the end (or start) of the cable is horribly noisy then a certified cable is unlikely to do much to reduce the noise. Maybe a certified cable is just the starting point for such a noisy environment. What's at the receiving end should take noise in to account (hence the regeneration comment I made) but I suspect that multiple levels of cleaning will help in some situations.

[Stryder5]

Certification, I find can sometimes be like joining a club....you pays yer money and you get your stickyfoot.

[Crackles]

There's some interesting stuff in the letters page of last month's HiFi World about digital cables. Upshot: they are more complex than most of us think.

Someone made the point about USB quality in general. My Chord Mojo has USB, coax and optical inputs and the USB is easily the worst of the three. My Fiio DAC does sound great through USB though.

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[NRG]

....
I can't say whether the cable that came with my Toshiba USB drive is certified or not but presumably Toshibiba put it there for a reason


Yes to meet FCC Class B


If a cable is certified does it mean the cable is perfect? What I'm getting at is if the device at the end (or start) of the cable is horribly noisy then a certified cable is unlikely to do much to reduce the noise. Maybe a certified cable is just the starting point for such a noisy environment. What's at the receiving end should take noise in to account (hence the regeneration comment I made) but I suspect that multiple levels of cleaning will help in some situations.

It means is meets the USB specification for whatever speed class intended. Yes it’s not going to fix a poorly implemented USB end device but then neither is a ferrite choke, as I said it’s a lottery, the variables are many. Sure try one as they are cheap and you never know you may strike lucky.

[Primalsea]

I'm aware the ferrite chokes aren't necessarily a good thing but they are very inexpensive to try. I can't say whether the cable that came with my Toshiba USB drive is certified or not but presumably Toshibiba put it there for a reason - I don't expect they was the product to cost 1 cent more than it needs to.

If a cable is certified does it mean the cable is perfect? What I'm getting at is if the device at the end (or start) of the cable is horribly noisy then a certified cable is unlikely to do much to reduce the noise. Maybe a certified cable is just the starting point for such a noisy environment. What's at the receiving end should take noise in to account (hence the regeneration comment I made) but I suspect that multiple levels of cleaning will help in some situations.

I thought that the ferrite choke was to stop noise originating from the USB peripheral device getting out via the shield. Is this not the case?

[Yomanze]

There's some interesting stuff in the letters page of last month's HiFi World about digital cables. Upshot: they are more complex than most of us think.

Someone made the point about USB quality in general. My Chord Mojo has USB, coax and optical inputs and the USB is easily the worst of the three. My Fiio DAC does sound great through USB though.

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Galvanic isolation of USB is critical, your Mojo doesn’t have it, so high amounts of EMI / power line noise is coupled into your unit.

Yours is a good case of where a USB isolator dongle would be of benefit.

[Crackles]

Galvanic isolation of USB is critical, your Mojo doesn’t have it, so high amounts of EMI / power line noise is coupled into your unit.

Yours is a good case of where a USB isolator dongle would be of benefit.Thanks, didn't know this.

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[337alant]

In my experience with tinkering with the different types of connection between my silent HTPC and M2Tech Young Dac I recorded the following
USB - standard without software and using windows sounds the worst
Coax - sounds more musical and quiet
Optical - More detail and cleaner
Asynchronous USB with M2tech software, Jrivermedia player M2Tech young dac Standard USB cable better than all of the above

Same as above with a Supra cable sound slightly better than the above so kept that and still use that today 5 years on
All just my opinion of course no scientific evidence :D

Alan

[Stratmangler]

In my experience with tinkering with the different types of connection between my silent HTPC and M2Tech Young Dac I recorded the following
USB - standard without software and using windows sounds the worst

That's no surprise - from the Windows end it will be seeing generic drivers. USB is not designed to be an audio interface! The clue is in the U bit of USB.


Coax - sounds more musical and quiet

It will - the coax connection is an audio one!


Optical - More detail and cleaner

And ground plane noise is eradicated .....


Asynchronous USB with M2tech software, Jrivermedia player M2Tech young dac Standard USB cable better than all of the above

The M2Tech "software" is not software as such - it's appropriate drivers for the hardware being used.


Same as above with a Supra cable sound slightly better than the above so kept that and still use that today 5 years on
All just my opinion of course no scientific evidence :D

Alan

[Spectral Morn]

Yes they make a difference. I use Wireworld Starlight and iFi USB power combination. I have tried USB to SPDIF convertors with mixed results, as PC software upgrades can make them not functional, or they wont handle all the sound option formats.

I would like to try one of the more expensive converters but the thought it might cease to work puts me off.

[Stereosane]

I just Bought the entry level QED USB cable it’s so cheap I thought why not, I hear a difference, more clarity and openness almost like the noise floor has been lowered. It’s not gonna make a good system brilliant but it definetly worth the price. I wouldn’t pay much more than that though, if I had paid £500pounds I think I would’ve been disappointed but for £15 it was well worth it.