View Full Version : Garrard Zero 100SB
dantheman91
25-06-2018, 09:14
Hi Guys
Looking into buying my first ever deck again but the one i am after has a problem with a noisy motor could this just need a belt change its £50 so i am weighing up the options also putting together my first system too Pioneer A300X , Ditton 15's the current owner says its in good working order apart from the noise...
Thoughts?
Thank you
walpurgis
25-06-2018, 09:18
Nostalgia can lead you up the garden path Dan. :D
Beobloke
25-06-2018, 11:51
The noisy motor is a common problem with these - basically the rotor is in two parts and after a good few years, the glue fails that holds the two halves together, so what you're hearing is the magnet rattling around as it spins.
It's not a difficult job but to fix it you need to remove the motor, dismantle it, and clean and glue the two parts back together. Give the motor bearings a clean out with IPA while you're in there and add some fresh oil, and it should spin sweetly and silently for many more years.
dantheman91
25-06-2018, 13:07
Could this be a Job for you Adam If your passing sometime I mean you can take it away and do the work ETC No worries if not.....?
Beobloke
26-06-2018, 11:54
I'd be happy to fettle it for you but I'm afraid I don't get down Bournemouth way very much. The next time I know I'm going to be there is the 22nd September for a concert!
Hi Guys
Looking into buying my first ever deck again but the one i am after has a problem with a noisy motor could this just need a belt change its £50 so i am weighing up the options also putting together my first system too Pioneer A300X , Ditton 15's the current owner says its in good working order apart from the noise...
Thoughts?
Thank you
I had one of these back in the day - a triumph of form over function. Looked “space age” but I remember my Gerard SP25 mk4 sounding nicer but if it’s nostalgia your after go for it and enjoy the memories
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To modify what Adam's said regarding the motor. The rotor is in THREE parts, the rotor/spindle proper, an aluminium disc and a slightly thicker magnet sandwiched between them. These motors when made were very low in vibration and ran superbly well bearing inmind the simplified build over earlier versions. It's possible to stick errant parts back, but if you're not scrupulous, the motors vibrate more after as the balancing is very slightly off. I believe Dual licenced the 'synchro lab' design for some of their motors according to Dual's ex service manager in Canada.
More importantly - and my 86SB suffers here even with a fresh motor - is that two of the three fixing grommets are softer compound and have probably sagged over time, meaning that any remaining vibration is transmitted through to the stylus and heard as a background 'drone' - something many cheaper decks of the period did all on their own when new... If I gently support the motor from underneath while playing, the drone completely disappears, showing to me that when new, Garrard worked bloody hard with pennies*, to get a good performance from the drive.
* Plessey used Garrard as a cash cow it appears and I'm coinstantly stunned how these decks were production engineered and worked so reliably. Given a chance, they could have been as solidly engineered as any Dual and with the funky styling they had a talent for, would be hugely sought after classics today and not just for the tonearm, which offers nothing sonically, but looks really cool ;)
If my earlier idler Zero 100 is anything to go by, these decks work quite well despite themselves, but it's my opinion the centre of gravity on the arm bearings relevent to the stylus is slightly off (maybe a load of crap this, but it's a hunch), making cartridge choice a little fussy. An AT120e sounds great in my AP76 and 86SB, but not at all in the Zero arm (effective mass is an issue too obviously). I use a surviving ortofon VMS10e II in mine and it's very good and I've also tried a Rega R100 as well (lives on as a related Sumiko Pearl). More realistically, an AT95E or EX is probably nearer the mark in all honesty and these should be rather better than the 'EJ based' Shure 93E they often came with.
Lastly, the mechs on ALL post 50's garrards tend to gum up with dried lubricants, giving jerky lift action on these particular mechs and if you're unlucky, seized trip parts and speed change, the latter of which are frail plastic on the SB models. GREAT CARE is needed in stripping down, cleaning and re-assembling, as I had to do with nmy AP76 and Zero 100 idler decks, the 86SB already had some work done i think and the arm behaves flawlessly.
Once fettled, the mech is smooth if a bit abrupt lifting the arm and returning it compared to say, a Dual, and there's an O Ring which liquifies and runs away that fits around the bottom of the platter hub directly under the geared part which quietens these mechanisms right down (I think it's a 15mm x 1.6mm from memory). I have many pics of my 'stuff' posted on my Vinyl Engine 'gallery if you're interested and the ring is pictured on the bottom of my Zero 100 platter (this bit is similar to the SB hub)
Wonderful conversation pieces these, but as with old Duals too, they need some work and at day's end, today, they're only 'borderling HiFi' grade for vinyl reproduction although a careful artridge match won't ever damage records played on them.
I'm reading this thinking, avoid, it's crap [emoji848]
Beobloke
27-06-2018, 10:09
Then you’d be wrong.
It’s a 40 year old mechanical item. It’s not beyond belief that it’ll need a bit of maintenance.
I bought my first, (idler) version in 1970 for near £50. It was OK but there were design aspects I didn't like; the motor spindle was tapered to allow speed adjustment, which meant that the idler wheel ran one edge on it.
I changed to the SB version, and flooded the arm bearings with Molyslip gearbox additive, just thin enough not to upset tracking but thick enough to dampen movement. I used a G900SE which worked very well and had years of pleasure with it until I was 'Linned' in the early 90s. Removed the Ittock II and put in an RB300, never really liked it, but it will do ATM.
Being honest, a Zero 100 is a collector's item and a conversation piece and climbing in value steadily. Being mechanical, the greases used back then DO dry out but the mechanism isn't hugely difficult to strip out, clean, re-lube SPARINGLY and re-assemble - if I could do one as a teenager (my first AP76 which has an almost identical mechanism only differing in tiny details and mainly in the auto-trip slider assembly, which uses a finer rod and slightly different cam parts - changed again in the SB models more in line with what Dual were doing), then with adult care and delicacy, you should be able to tackle it and being a later design, you may not need to do so much - I can talk you through it and there's threads and threads on Vinyl Engine about fettling these machines.
As Adam beobloke says, it's actually NOT a pile of crap at all and with careful cartridge choice and a quiet drive, it can still sound very pleasant indeed and hell I'm going to say it, potentially better and quieter than the once ubiquitous Pioneer 12D models which got worse as production was ramped up and evolving into the mk2 version which didn't seem as consistently engineered. Garrard put their all into the basics and did them well.
Go on, have some fun :D To see one of those things working and sounding just fine once sorted is a wonderful experience I assure you!
Then you’d be wrong.
It’s a 40 year old mechanical item. It’s not beyond belief that it’ll need a bit of maintenance.I meant it'll sound crap, especially if a Garrard 25 bested it for someone [emoji23]
I wasn't thinking about the mechanics of it [emoji6]
The nearest I have to an SP25 is the changer version of a late mk2 (60mk2 with retro-fitted by me syncro lab motor which turns it into an SL65 to all intents and purposes). I think I can say the Zero 100 in either version sounds better and should be far quieter too! The 60mk2 is great fitted with Stanton 500v3 playing 7" singles, but I can't bring myself to play treasured LP's on it though... The AT95E works well mechanically in this deck, but sonically I'd rather have the silky Stanton I think at the moment.
I'll say it again. I come to these larger-format Garrards (including the Lab 80mk2 I bought from Beobloke some years back and had huge fun restoring) with low sonic expectations and am continually delighted by how entertaining they can actually sound. Get the cartridge matched right and the flimsy construction is neatly bypassed. I thought my own Zero 100 headshell was wobbly, but the swival bearing is slop-free and it's actually the uni-pivot at the other end of the rider arm which is dislocated by wiggling the headshelll around and has no play when used as intended.
What cartridge to use? AT95E is a no brainer. Nagaokas reportedly work well too and the Sumiko Pearl should track stably in this deceptively massy arm. I don't know how the Goldring E3 is fitted to the shell, but if you can screw through from underneath, that should be a good one tracking at 1.8g or so.. The Ortofon OM5/10 and OM20 should work fine as well (I know the OM5e does) but the 2M Red won't as you can't screw in from above in the C3 carrier. Setting overhang is a breeze as if you set it right at either 60mm or 65mm from disc centre, the setting will stay over the entire record surface.
Lastly, the Garrards of this era used an imperial thread, so now common 2.5mm screws won't fit without re-threading the sliding aluminium bridge in the C3 itself.
From memory I used both Shure M55e and M75ed2 in my 0100 (the sp25 has a goldring g800 and A&R p78 - yep the special stylus version).
I remember the funky record side counter on the transparent Perspex arm mount
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Everyone put a 75-ED into all sorts of things back then :) We weren't as spoiled as we are now and AT hadn't quite got into their stride back then, not until the AT20SLa came along and this was way above a Zero 100 skill-set to be truthful.
One more go and hope it's handy for potential buyers of these larger format Garrards (AP75/76/86sb/96, SL72b, 75, 95, Zero models and 990/Z2000 etc.) I've lifted the text from a VE post last night from forum pal A70BBen who rather like me has years of stripping out and servicing these things... I hope he doesn't mind -
'There are several potential trouble spots in the SL72B (same chassis as SL95B and Zero 100 series):
The autostop lever, on the right side of the chassis under the platter has a habit of freezing up on its shaft due to lubricant drying out. Remove the platter and see if the lever there swings back and forth. It is actually an overcentering lever and spring; push it past center and the spring pushes it the rest of the way, in both directions. If it is stuck, depending on which position, the unit will either always set down in autocycle, never shutting off...or it will always shut off, never setting down on a record.
If this lever gets stuck, it can be difficult to remove. Judicious application of heat from a soldering iron is often required. Then the old, dried out grease, every trace of it, needs to be removed from the lever and the shaft, and new grease applied. DO NOT LOSE THE ATTACHED SPRING, they are of Unobtainium and if you lose it, you will have to bend up your own spring, probably by trial/error.
The speed/record size control gets stuck, due to lubricant drying out. DO NOT FORCE IT, YOU WILL BREAK IT. You need to attack it with solvent. If you use heat, be VERY careful that you don't melt the plastic part of the mechanism.
The auto trip levers get stuck due to lubricant drying out. On the SL72B, SL95B, SL75B, the Zeros, the 86SB and 74, they can be removed without removing the main cam. Again, once all you must clean off all the old, dried lubricant but in this case, reassemble DRY (the lube that got there crept in over the years as it broke down and seeped into everything.
The main gear/cam may be stuck and not going into auto cycle at all, due to lubricant drying out (do you detect a common theme here?) If this has happened you will need to remove everything that connects to the main cam, and remove the gear/cam itself. Sometimes if it is tightly frozen, you have to remove its shaft too, by removing a nut and lockwasher from the top of the chassis.
The SL72B dates from 1970 or so. It was made until 1973. You can figure out how old it is. NO mechanical device can be expected to run that long without servicing and the general lack of servicing is why the lubricants have dried out! It is EXPECTED that a machine this old will need work. Once done, you will have a nice automatic turntable that performs well and from which you will get years of enjoyment, and you'll be using better, longer-lasting lubricants in it than Garrard had available to them in 1970!
The Garrard SL95/SL75 service manual, and the SL72B supplement, are available for free download from the VE Library section.
Beobloke
28-06-2018, 11:45
I meant it'll sound crap, especially if a Garrard 25 bested it for someone [emoji23]
I wasn't thinking about the mechanics of it [emoji6]
Fair enough! However I have owned pretty much every model of turntable Garrard made from the mid 1960s onwards and I can promise you that a Zero100SB is better than any of the SP25 variants!
Fair enough! However I have owned pretty much every model of turntable Garrard made from the mid 1960s onwards and I can promise you that a Zero100SB is better than any of the SP25 variants!Cool, I've only owned an sp25 way back in the 70's as a teenager so I know how good they are lol
Fair enough! However I have owned pretty much every model of turntable Garrard made from the mid 1960s onwards and I can promise you that a Zero100SB is better than any of the SP25 variants!
The 125SB and differently numbered siblings were a bit of a step up over previous idler SP25's I remember, but everything else had stepped up a bit as well at this price. The last auto Garrards we sold was the GT55 (much developed Zero tonearm and new mechanism with DC motor drive), the later solid-plinth models being not as solid feeling as the Japanese alternatives I remember.
We also stopped selling the auto-changer capable Duals after the rather wonderful 1229 (all surviving ones now needing urgent work on certain rubbery bits if a major tonearm mounting repair is to be avoided) and I don't know how many later changer models were ever imported into the UK.
The Zero 100 is a lovely thing to look at, plays records safely without carving them up and doesn't sound at all bad - honest! I enjoy using mine in the workroom when it's turn comes, but the Dual 1019 I was given does hold such huge emotional connection here it's been hard to rotate my stash around...
Quote Originally Posted by Beobloke View Post
Fair enough! However I have owned pretty much every model of turntable Garrard made from the mid 1960s onwards and I can promise you that a Zero100SB is better than any of the SP25 variants!
Couldn't agree more, and wondered for ages after buying a Linn if that was a mistake.
I also loved the aesthetics of the zero-100.
I blow hot and cold over the Linn, but I DO have to say I bought my first one because it MADE MY LPs SOUND BETTER at the time. I first compared it with my Technics SL110 (beautiful classic build but fed back very badly at the time) anda TD125mk2 (sloppy bearings in the mk2 did have an effect, making the sound more vague, the mk1 wasn't I later discovered) a year or two before I sold them and set them up myself. It was the Ittok which really upset the then LP12 in 1980 and once Linn started their record label, they knew what the thing was and wasn't doing well, although it took a long time to begin to come around - the fans needed to adapt to the revised tone with each update I reckon. So don't feel guilty, we've 'all' gone through the process and some are still enjoying being in the midst of it ;)
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