View Full Version : Wanted : Valve Pre Amp - WHY?
Hi,
I'm about to have a clear out of some kit and I'll be in the market for a Valve Pre amp to pair with my Primaluna Power Amp (Yes, I know I should sell first but you know how it is lol).
I nearly bought the matching Primaluna Pre amp but resisted due to the price at the time and ended up using a Promitheus TVC instead. I fancy something a little better, and active.
Budget, hard to say really, depends what's offered but I've been trawling ebay and a lot of kit up to about £1500 has been added to my watch list.
Of course I've had loads of kit through my hands that would have been perfect, but I didn't own the power amp at the time.
Oh well, never mind, let's see what's out there [emoji6]
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I have a project rs pre (with power supply as an optional extra).
Lovely tube amp with full balanced circuits and low gain inputs.
I have an SJS Arcadia pre, well under (top end of the) budget. Pretty much mint, Pm if interested?
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montesquieu
20-06-2018, 22:00
I have an SJS Arcadia pre, well under (top end of the) budget. Pretty much mint, Pm if interested?
Kept that one quiet James.
AD Audio
20-06-2018, 22:21
Do you need a phono stage? That sort of budget gets you one of my new Satchmo preamps
David
montesquieu
20-06-2018, 22:27
Do you need a phono stage? That sort of budget gets you one of my new Satchmo preamps
David
Was very impressed with the Satchmo at Westlower's place when I heard it recently.
jandl100
21-06-2018, 05:24
JonH was selling a superb Herron VTSP-2 valve pre .... oh, wait .... :doh: :D
JonH was selling a superb Herron VTSP-2 valve pre .... oh, wait .... :doh: :DI'm just biding my time [emoji23]
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Lots of good ideas /offers so far.
Just don't know which way to go, in fact I'm even contemplating selling the whole lot and starting again, but then again I only think about doing that once every few months lol
It's never easy without hearing them first.
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Do you need a phono stage? That sort of budget gets you one of my new Satchmo preamps
DavidDo you have a demo unit?
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Bigman80
21-06-2018, 07:15
Why not just sell off your gear and buy the matching pre. I seem to remember you being very impressed by it.
At least then you'd be where you want to be and enjoying the music rather than contemplating flogging everything every few weeks.
Why not just sell off your gear and buy the matching pre. I seem to remember you being very impressed by it.
At least then you'd be where you want to be and enjoying the music rather than contemplating flogging everything every few weeks.Trouble is, even sellinh off my spare kit leaves me well short of the matching Pre [emoji6] [emoji23]
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Bigman80
21-06-2018, 07:17
Oh [emoji23]
How much is it?
Trouble is, even sellinh off my spare kit leaves me well short of the matching Pre [emoji6] [emoji23]
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Oh [emoji23]
How much is it?£3000 retail [emoji54]
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AD Audio
21-06-2018, 07:29
Hi, yes, I do have a demo unit available with phono stage which you are welcome to borrow against a deposit /cost of transport.
David
Bigman80
21-06-2018, 07:32
£3000 retail [emoji54]
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkOh dear lol.
I still think you'd be better off waiting and saving up for it. You won't be happy untill you've got one.
Mike, I have an Audio Innovations L2 pre for sale.
Im coming up again soon and can happily leave it with you for a few days if you wanted.
500, but dont let the low price put you off. Its fantastic
WESTLOWER
21-06-2018, 07:49
+1 on the Satchmo pre amps it's a wonderful pre.
hifinutt
21-06-2018, 08:14
thats good to know , be interested in more views and hope you get a demo . am i right in thinking its based on the herron pre that jerry mentioned
big fan of modwright pre amps too, build quaility is superb and expansive sound . the little schiit saga buffer valve pre seems very good too especially for the money
Hi, yes, I do have a demo unit available with phono stage which you are welcome to borrow against a deposit /cost of transport.
DavidThat would be great, send me some details and I'll try and sort delivery /deposit out today (at work just now so might be delay in replying)
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Lawrence001
21-06-2018, 08:39
I've got two that I don't really use, one's a Gate Audio, the others a Croft Super Micro A octal. Gate Audio were a well respected British cottage industry valve amp outfit, Croft are obviously well known. They are both point to point wiring and have valve phono stages and valve regulated power supplies. The Gate uses 4x 12AX7 while the Croft has 2x 6SL7 and 2x 12SN7. Both compete with amps costing a lot more.
lordmortlock
21-06-2018, 11:02
Really enjoyed the Gate Audio when I had it. Great unit
Lawrence001
21-06-2018, 15:11
Thanks Jake it's a great unit and I don't really want to sell either of them but with the kids just at that age I don't get to listen to music till after 9pm most days and then it's very quiet, it's overkill having so much quality kit lying around (not to mention taking up much needed space round the house). I'm going to go for cheaper gear that's low hassle (SS and class D). But I know in a few years I'll look back and wish I hadn't. Maybe the loft beckons...
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Mike, I have an Audio Innovations L2 pre for sale.
Im coming up again soon and can happily leave it with you for a few days if you wanted.
500, but dont let the low price put you off. Its fantasticI'll pm you [emoji6]
Actually I won't, I forgot about the size of the l2 it's far too big for where it has to go on my rack
Anything else written considering?
Fed up with Hifi cos no matter what I do it sounds shit!
Maybe it would help if you describe what is shit about it?
I've forgotten what you are using now anyway. Valves and Tannoys?
Bigman80
25-06-2018, 07:19
Anything else written considering?
Fed up with Hifi cos no matter what I do it sounds shit!Mikey, you have some very desirable gear there, what's happening!
Mikey, you have some very desirable gear there, what's happening!Foul mood yesterday and was fed up and grumpy. Hence the siggy, its all good today so siggy changed.
Just need to find a Pre I like to get me sorted is all.
Sorry to cause concern.
[emoji4]
Mood Swings Anonymous here I come!
lordmortlock
25-06-2018, 09:28
Pinged you a pm Mike
Bigman80
25-06-2018, 09:31
Foul mood yesterday and was fed up and grumpy. Hence the siggy, its all good today so siggy changed.
Just need to find a Pre I like to get me sorted is all.
Sorry to cause concern.
[emoji4]
Mood Swings Anonymous here I come!Lol, had me concerned there!
I was offered a VTL deluxe valve pre a few days back on here. Worth a look?
Also an Audio Innovations P2. Valves galore.
brian2957
25-06-2018, 09:52
Me and Tony heard Mike's system a couple of weeks ago and on one particular recording I thought it sounded stunning . Feel free to send anything you don't like to me Mike , I'll give it a very good home :D
Me and Tony heard Mike's system a couple of weeks ago and on one particular recording I thought it sounded stunning . Feel free to send anything you don't like to me Mike , I'll give it a very good home :DSent fast too many bargains westward already [emoji6][emoji23]
Mood Swings Anonymous here I come!
brian2957
25-06-2018, 10:08
Aye , know the feeling Mike . My mood dictates how I hear my system and what music I listen to :)
Aye , know the feeling Mike . My mood dictates how I hear my system and what music I listen to :)Think that's me in a nutshell, or am I just a nut lol
hifinutt
25-06-2018, 18:01
vtl valve pre are very good , had the 5.5 on demo and build quality was amazing , would definately have one if i saw one at a decent price . be interested in what the 2.5 sounds like but puresound L10 would be my choice if i was on a budget . extremely musical pre amp that just makes you want to get up and boogie
vtl valve pre are very good , had the 5.5 on demo and build quality was amazing , would definately have one if i saw one at a decent price . be interested in what the 2.5 sounds like but puresound L10 would be my choice if i was on a budget . extremely musical pre amp that just makes you want to get up and boogie
The Pure Sound L10 should come in at just about your budget and you'll be hard pressed to beat it. It's a fantastic pre if you don't need a phono stage
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I did think of buying the last one that came up for sale here. But like I say the main issue is buying blind then being stuck with it if I don't like it. Market seems slow at the moment.
It will need to be something special to just jump on it without hearing it.
montesquieu
25-06-2018, 19:08
I did think of buying the last one that came up for sale here. But like I say the main issue is buying blind then being stuck with it if I don't like it. Market seems slow at the moment.
It will need to be something special to just jump on it without hearing it.
Aye there's the rub. Box-swaping is an uneasy mix of paying a bit more (though not always) to dealers where you can try before you buy, or taking a punt on something at a price where you hope you won't get scalped from moving it on if it's not a good fit.
Mostly I've played the latter game (and lost a fair amount of scalp in the process) but these days I'm doing more stuff with dealers, as I use what I've learned from box-swapping to help me zoom in better on what I know is more likely to be what I like/will work in my setup.
It's a tough call and forums while helpful are not necessarily reliable because some people are just tone deaf sorry I'll rephrase that people's taste is different and something that another person likes might sound appalling to your ears.
There's a Doge 8 pre in the classifieds I nearly bought. If it was black I would have done.
It'll be good. Google it.
I did but a few comments in a couple of reviews put me off [emoji6]
There's a Doge 8 pre in the classifieds I nearly bought. If it was black I would have done.
It'll be good. Google it.
I did but a few comments in a couple of reviews put me off [emoji6]I'd like to hear their current DAC. Their Doge 6 CDP sounded better than a Nagra CDP to me a few years back. And by quite a bit I thought.
No mean feat considering the massive price difference.
Bigman80
25-06-2018, 19:25
Aye there's the rub. Box-swaping is an uneasy mix of paying a bit more (though not always) to dealers where you can try before you buy, or taking a punt on something at a price where you hope you won't get scalped from moving it on if it's not a good fit.
Mostly I've played the latter game (and lost a fair amount of scalp in the process) but these days I'm doing more stuff with dealers, as I use what I've learned from box-swapping to help me zoom in better on what I know is more likely to be what I like/will work in my setup.
It's a tough call and forums while helpful are not necessarily reliable because some people are just tone deaf sorry I'll rephrase that people's taste is different and something that another person likes might sound appalling to your ears.Had a very similar convo to this end earlier on, sometimes you buy something and it tells you more about what you DONT want. It's an expensive experiment every time we space a part out. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Hopefully, we don't lose any money.
Bigman80
25-06-2018, 19:25
I did but a few comments in a couple of reviews put me off [emoji6]It uses Blue Alps potentiometers which are a red flag to me.
It uses Blue Alps potentiometers which are a red flag to me.They go noisy after some years. They are cheap though, so no issue but there is much better about.
Alps RK50 is another matter. Got one of those.
Bigman80
25-06-2018, 19:49
They go noisy after some years. They are cheap though, so no issue but there is much better about.
Alps RK50 is another matter. Got one of those.They go noisy, they also aren't very transparent. The amount of information lost at the Volume pot was a big shock and only came to light when I tried other styles. Stepped attenuators are superior.
They go noisy, they also aren't very transparent. The amount of information lost at the Volume pot was a big shock and only came to light when I tried other styles. Stepped attenuators are superior.Tell that to Tim De Paravicini. He puts them in his expensive preamps.
I have one currently in my active preamp. But that preamp sounds better than the EAR868 (Alps Blue) according to me.
I replaced one in an old integrated. They are everywhere. Hard to avoid.
It's the sum of how the whole circuit sounds. If you just use them in passive preamps then compare with much better pots you will conclude they are shite I am sure.
Bigman80
25-06-2018, 20:10
Tell that to Tim De Paravicini. He puts them in his expensive preamps.
I have one currently in my active preamp. But that preamp sounds better than the EAR868 (Alps Blue) according to me.
I replaced one in an old integrated. They are everywhere. Hard to avoid.
It's the sum of how the whole circuit sounds. If you just use them in passive preamps then compare with much better pots you will conclude they are shite I am sure.I don't intend to tell Tim DP anything lol, what he has forgotten is more than I'll ever understand.
It's just been my experience that the Alps Blue just isn't a great potentiometer. Far better available.
It's just been my experience that the Alps Blue just isn't a great potentiometer. Far better available.
Penny & Giles?
Bourne, Allen Bradley, TDK, Panasonic, .... ?
Bigman80
25-06-2018, 21:27
Penny & Giles?
Bourne, Allen Bradley, TDK, Panasonic, .... ?What's that mean Barry? Better pots?
Use two cheap pots, one for each channel and you won't have to bother buying anything expensive or fuss to much over the design!:lol:
jandl100
26-06-2018, 06:48
Preamps, even more than most gear except maybe speakers, are a very personal thing.
You can't really go on rep or reviews, it really does come down to a combo of personal taste and system synergy. You just have to try the damn things in your own system with your own music choices and your own ears.
I recently had a Puresound L10 - it didn't last long here. While it didn't do anything wrong, it didn't really manage to capture my attention. Watch out for insufficient gain issues with the L10 as well, only about +5dB I think, low anyway, and sometimes I had it at max wishing there was just a little more to be had. It all depends on the overall gain of your system.
Others love it - the chap I sold mine to soon moved it on - because it so impressed him he spent Big £Moolah on the Puresound L300!
Whereas the Herron valve pre has settled right in and I expect it to be here for quite a while. Love it.
Disastrous experience with a demmed ARC LS26 - just sounded vague, coloured and awful.
I was using a Schiit Saga passive pre for quite a while and really liked it - but I'd be fibbing if I said it was as good as the Herron.
I've had bad experiences with even expensive AudioSynthesis passive preamps - they seem to suck the dynamics out of the music. Although someone else said you needed to go with the ones with balanced connections - maybe so. Other folks love them in any guise.
A Restek Consens transistor pre stayed for getting on for 2 years (blimey!) and really hit the spot. I guess I really only moved it on because I was tired of looking at it!
A left-field Lexicon MC-1 AV pre/processor used in pure pre mode was amazingly good, £350. Sold it after a while to a high-end-focused forum chap who wanted a cheap temporary stand-in and he too was amazed how good it was! You never can tell.
So, yep, no short cuts to be had, imo. You just got to try the darn things and hope for the best.
Thanks Jerry, as you say one man's meat etc.
I've been offered a nice little Pre that on reading about it would appear to be perfect. I'm undecided, so no change there lol.
I've also been offered another cartridge that I was after a while back too, so I'm kinda boxing myself into a corner cash wise as I decided a while back NOT to buy just for the sake of trying something in the hope of moving it on if it doesn't fit in.
The two gain valves I fitted in my power amp on Saturday ( had a dead one so figured I'd replace the pair).
Only listened to a couple of lps so far and I like what I hear, more the sound I'm after so I might not even need a different Pre, I'm on holiday after tonight so I'll get more time over the next few days to assess the change and that should help me decide.
The Satchmo plus Head Amp will be here soon too so I'm keen to hear that before making any decisions
I'll pm you [emoji6]
Actually I won't, I forgot about the size of the l2 it's far too big for where it has to go on my rack
Mike, you may not be aware that men with large Pre amps are well known to also have other large things.
It’s along the lines of “ man with large feet equals man with large ”WxxxxE “
Does wonders for self esteem, and all the hi fi world will know that “that guy over there has a large..........pre “
Anyway if you want to borrow it (even with no intention of buying), that’s ok. It will give you an idea of what good
valve pres are about.
I’m up soon and can meet up again, same place.
Primalsea
26-06-2018, 07:54
I don’t think that conventional pots are necessary bad just that if the volume control is unbuffered, at the front end of the preamp circuit quality becomes a paramount issue. Here a stepped attenator will be a better choice, especially one with low capacitance and good quality contacts. If the volume control is buffered then a conventional pot is not necessarily a bad way to go.
WESTLOWER
26-06-2018, 08:30
The Satchmo plus Head Amp will be here soon too so I'm keen to hear that before making any decisions
I think you maybe very impressed with what the Satchmo does!
hifinutt
26-06-2018, 14:02
Preamps, even more than most gear except maybe speakers, are a very personal thing.
You can't really go on rep or reviews, it really does come down to a combo of personal taste and system synergy. You just have to try the damn things in your own system with your own music choices and your own ears.
I recently had a Puresound L10 - it didn't last long here. While it didn't do anything wrong, it didn't really manage to capture my attention. Watch out for insufficient gain issues with the L10 as well, only about +5dB I think, low anyway, and sometimes I had it at max wishing there was just a little more to be had. It all depends on the overall gain of your system.
Others love it - the chap I sold mine to soon moved it on - because it so impressed him he spent Big £Moolah on the Puresound L300!
Whereas the Herron valve pre has settled right in and I expect it to be here for quite a while. Love it.
Disastrous experience with a demmed ARC LS26 - just sounded vague, coloured and awful.
I was using a Schiit Saga passive pre for quite a while and really liked it - but I'd be fibbing if I said it was as good as the Herron.
I've had bad experiences with even expensive AudioSynthesis passive preamps - they seem to suck the dynamics out of the music. Although someone else said you needed to go with the ones with balanced connections - maybe so. Other folks love them in any guise.
A Restek Consens transistor pre stayed for getting on for 2 years (blimey!) and really hit the spot. I guess I really only moved it on because I was tired of looking at it!
A left-field Lexicon MC-1 AV pre/processor used in pure pre mode was amazingly good, £350. Sold it after a while to a high-end-focused forum chap who wanted a cheap temporary stand-in and he too was amazed how good it was! You never can tell.
So, yep, no short cuts to be had, imo. You just got to try the darn things and hope for the best.
yes so true , however after i miserably had to sell my ref 5se [ new ] to fund a house , i had a L10 and it was such a consolation , although the ref 5se was streets ahead in terms of realism i just found the L10 so musical and really worked well with my amps
am i right in thinking the satchmo is based on the herron pre , i have the schiit saga now thanks to jerry with the firebottle mononblocks and it sure is good , i am sure that nice ref 3 at midland audio would beat it , and the satchmo though
yes so true , however after i miserably had to sell my ref 5se [ new ] to fund a house , i had a L10 and it was such a consolation , although the ref 5se was streets ahead in terms of realism i just found the L10 so musical and really worked well with my amps
am i right in thinking the satchmo is based on the herron pre , i have the schiit saga now thanks to jerry with the firebottle mononblocks and it sure is good , i am sure that nice ref 3 at midland audio would beat it , and the satchmo though@ £9000 I would hope so [emoji6]
WESTLOWER
27-06-2018, 09:21
am i right in thinking the satchmo is based on the herron pre?
No, don't think so.
AD Audio
27-06-2018, 09:36
I'm not aware of any connection between the Herron and Satchmo and Herron give scant details of their circuitry. The Satchmo is built under licence from Oddwatt Audio using one of their designs. I customise the power supply, casework and some other details along with adding options like stepped ladder attenuators and autoformers, remote control etc as the client wishes.
David
hifinutt
27-06-2018, 16:49
ah my mistake , thanks for clarifying . the ref 3 is 3299 s/h so bit less than 9k but perhaps you meant new
ah my mistake , thanks for clarifying . the ref 3 is 3299 s/h so bit less than 9k but perhaps you meant newYeah, but a good price vs new, just out of my league unfortunately
hifinutt
15-07-2018, 13:36
how are things going with your search , did you try the satchmo ?
how are things going with your search , did you try the satchmo ?Given up on my search for just now, I've ordered external crossovers for my Tannoys, so until they're fitted I'll just stick to using my Promitheus TVC.
The Satchmo was good, I had gain issues into my power amp so it was difficult to assess at low volume, no big issue to be honest and easily changed.
It will be on my short list come purchase time but I'd like to try a good few others before deciding.
hifinutt
16-07-2018, 08:47
brilliant , thanks for that . good luck with trying some more pre amps and look forward to hearing about those crossovers
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