WTD - Active Preamp

[Bigman80]

Hi all,

Looking for an active preamp. Would prefer something solid state i think. Would consider valves too

No Phonostage necessary. RCA inputs and outputs ARE necessary.

Budget is around £500

Open to suggestions too.

[Yomanze]

This is DIY territory IMO, would be tempted by a Pass DCB1. Haven’t been up to date recently on what kits and stuff are on DIYAudio, but would take a look. :)

[Bigman80]

This is DIY territory IMO, would be tempted by a Pass DCB1. Haven’t been up to date recently on what kits and stuff are on DIYAudio, but would take a look. :)That is on my radar. I wanted the mesmerize boards but they aren't in stock.

[walpurgis]

Looking for an active preamp. Would prefer something solid state i think.

Have a look for a Forte Model 2. Yes, it's a Nelson Pass design and sounds remarkably good. I should have kept mine.

It also has one of the best inbuilt phono stages around.

You'll want one if you read this bit of info here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-forte-model-2-preamplifier?sort_order=desc

[Primalsea]

I have a WD Pre3 and Psu3. A valve preamp that uses massive output transformers in order to have a very low output impedance. Can post some pics if you are interested?

£500 + delivery - it’s quite heavy.

[Bigman80]

I have a WD Pre3 and Psu3. A valve preamp that uses massive output transformers in order to have a very low output impedance. Can post some pics if you are interested?

£500 + delivery - it’s quite heavy.Ye, post some pics. Not in any rush to pull the trigger so will keep my options open for a little while.

[Bigman80]

Will do, cheers geoff
Have a look for a Forte Model 2. Yes, it's a Nelson Pass design and sounds remarkably good. I should have kept mine.

It also has one of the best inbuilt phono stages around.

[walpurgis]

Hmm. I'm just pondering if I should consider parting with my VTL Deluxe valve pre-amp. It's a fabulous sounding thing.

[STD305M]

Hi Oliver
Keep your eyes open for an adcom gfp-750.
It should be in your budget and is a stonker, much overlooked but fantastic.

Steve...

[Bigman80]

Hmm. I'm just pondering if I should consider parting with my VTL Deluxe valve pre-amp. It's a fabulous sounding thing.Have a ponder.

[Bigman80]

Cheers Steve, will do.
Hi Oliver
Keep your eyes open for an adcom gfp-750.
It should be in your budget and is a stonker, much overlooked but fantastic.

Steve...

[CageyH]

Hi all,

Looking for an active preamp. Would prefer something solid state i think. Would consider valves too

No Phonostage necessary. RCA inputs and outputs ARE necessary.

Budget is around £500

Open to suggestions too.

Save up some money and get a KIN. ;)

[Bigman80]

Save up some money and get a KIN. ;)Ha, the thought did cross my mind mate.

[take5]

Hi, i have an Audio Innovations L2 that i will sell for £500.

it sounds fantastic.

here is an old sale thread that I had, with some more info and pictures.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?40914-Audio-innovations-l2-valve-pre-amp

[Bigman80]

Hi, i have an Audio Innovations L2 that i will sell for £500.

it sounds fantastic.

here is an old sale thread that I had, with some more info and pictures.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?40914-Audio-innovations-l2-valve-pre-ampHi Brian,

Let me have a look into this unit as I'm not familiar with it at all!

Looks massive? What are the dimensions?

Thanks

Oliver

[Yomanze]

Hi all,

Looking for an active preamp. Would prefer something solid state i think. Would consider valves too

No Phonostage necessary. RCA inputs and outputs ARE necessary.

Budget is around £500

Open to suggestions too.

If you fancy a little project am sure I have a lot of the parts including the matched FETs for a DCB1 Blue, and a relay switching ready built board...

[karma67]

a perfect time oli to try a nakamichi ca-5

[Bigman80]

a perfect time oli to try a nakamichi ca-5I worry about the Nak, I really don't like the Alps potentiometer and I'm am nearly positive the Nak has them.

[DSJR]

The Nak preamps may have an acceptable phono stage in them, but in musical terms on the line stages, they're shallow and bland by todays standards - and I owned both a CA5 and a CA7, the latter for a while until an ARC SP14 absolutely trounced it and a Croft 4PP sounded as good as the ARC for under half the money! the CA7 was a bargain at the time as the build and internal construction was so good and it was a shame the sound was so 'ordinary.'

Old preamps can be the pits these days, as the sound was often heavily 'doctored' for a sonic effect in so many so-called Top End examples. The ARC I had lacked the warm rosy glow of earlier all-valve designs and ARC soon returned to valves in their large-format products, the clear sounding but added glowing colouration returning too I feel in the LS15 and 25 i remember. I love the Crown IC-150's I have which responded so well to a minor tweak here and there plus modern op-amps of not silly bandwidth, but the volume pots are weak and to fit a modern replacement with full functionality is a bind not carried out by the faint hearted imo. They look a bit like a cooker too - cough!!! I do have a wooden case for one of mine as well... Simple signal path with loads of switchable add-ons which aren't really necessary today, but the sound changes with each recording played through it so i don't feel it gets in the way unduly.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/crown/ic-150.htm



A few ss preamps I respected deeply were the original Cyrus model with balanced outs on the back (I don't know the second issue but suspect it's good too), the AVI S2000MP (the phono stage is great in a restrained way, but ONLY after 45 minutes or so - don't ask, but every sample I ever used did this and I sold and owned many samples) - the line buffer is designed specifically for long cable runs to remote power amps and sounds best doing this - it can sound a bit 'pushy' into a 1m interconnect with nearby power-amp. I didn't much care for the hype on the original MF Nu-Vista preamp but the simpler and more conventional XP-100 preamp (same case and circuit board but with normal transistors on) sounded great to me and used samples do come up occasionally. The Quad 77 preamp has a flaky two-way remote but a sweet and airy sound. This range not cachet-laden so possibly cheap enough with good after sales service. The UK made Audiolab 8000Q made for a great line level preamp and now they're over twenty years old, the prices will be good (black cases designate the UK made ones. the Tag replacement may besubtly tweaked inside too, but I don't know how they 'sound' in comparison and neither do I know the Chinese modern version at far less money...

Which brings me to Glenn Croft :D :respect: A BRAND NEW Micro 25 is only £750 and even if you bought an older 4SA or similar and had him update it (both line and phono stages will need updating to remove the characteristic valvey colour), you'd be very close to the £500 limit anyway. the current Micro 25 is superb, as neutral as valves get by and large and in the main aspects, you give away very little to the more expensive R and RS versions, to which a standard 25 can be updated later. Properly made, easy to service, not that it's ever needed and if the twin volume pots niggle you, he does a single stereo-pot version as well to special order with one of those Alps blue? thingies instead. people like marco have gone the stepped attenuator route and for silly extra money, you can buy 24 or 48 stepped attenuators which do help channel balancing of the twin controls (not sure if Glenn sanctions these, but I believe he'd fit one if necessary). The '25' is a lovely thing to use and own and it can get better from here too ;)

[Bigman80]

The Nak preamps may have an acceptable phono stage in them, but in musical terms on the line stages, they're shallow and bland by todays standards - and I owned both a CA5 and a CA7, the latter for a while until an ARC SP14 absolutely trounced it and a Croft 4PP sounded as good as the ARC for under half the money! the CA7 was a bargain at the time as the build and internal construction was so good and it was a shame the sound was so 'ordinary.'

Old preamps can be the pits these days, as the sound was often heavily 'doctored' for a sonic effect in so many so-called Top End examples. The ARC I had lacked the warm rosy glow of earlier all-valve designs and ARC soon returned to valves in their large-format products, the clear sounding but added glowing colouration returning too I feel in the LS15 and 25 i remember. I love the Crown IC-150's I have which responded so well to a minor tweak here and there plus modern op-amps of not silly bandwidth, but the volume pots are weak and to fit a modern replacement with full functionality is a bind not carried out by the faint hearted imo. They look a bit like a cooker too - cough!!! I do have a wooden case for one of mine as well... Simple signal path with loads of switchable add-ons which aren't really necessary today, but the sound changes with each recording played through it so i don't feel it gets in the way unduly.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/crown/ic-150.htm



A few ss preamps I respected deeply were the original Cyrus model with balanced outs on the back (I don't know the second issue but suspect it's good too), the AVI S2000MP (the phono stage is great in a restrained way, but ONLY after 45 minutes or so - don't ask, but every sample I ever used did this and I sold and owned many samples) - the line buffer is designed specifically for long cable runs to remote power amps and sounds best doing this - it can sound a bit 'pushy' into a 1m interconnect with nearby power-amp. I didn't much care for the hype on the original MF Nu-Vista preamp but the simpler and more conventional XP-100 preamp (same case and circuit board but with normal transistors on) sounded great to me and used samples do come up occasionally. The Quad 77 preamp has a flaky two-way remote but a sweet and airy sound. This range not cachet-laden so possibly cheap enough with good after sales service. The UK made Audiolab 8000Q made for a great line level preamp and now they're over twenty years old, the prices will be good (black cases designate the UK made ones. the Tag replacement may besubtly tweaked inside too, but I don't know how they 'sound' in comparison and neither do I know the Chinese modern version at far less money...

Which brings me to Glenn Croft :D :respect: A BRAND NEW Micro 25 is only £750 and even if you bought an older 4SA or similar and had him update it (both line and phono stages will need updating to remove the characteristic valvey colour), you'd be very close to the £500 limit anyway. the current Micro 25 is superb, as neutral as valves get by and large and in the main aspects, you give away very little to the more expensive R and RS versions, to which a standard 25 can be updated later. Properly made, easy to service, not that it's ever needed and if the twin volume pots niggle you, he does a single stereo-pot version as well to special order with one of those Alps blue? thingies instead. people like marco have gone the stepped attenuator route and for silly extra money, you can buy 24 or 48 stepped attenuators which do help channel balancing of the twin controls (not sure if Glenn sanctions these, but I believe he'd fit one if necessary). The '25' is a lovely thing to use and own and it can get better from here too ;)Great post Dave, as usual!

Yes, the Nak isn't something I'm seriously considering. They seem very expensive for what looks like a very ordinary build quality. The Nelson Pass name has seriously inflated it's worth I think.

Have considered the Croft 25 but I don't want the phonostage and don't fully understand how his lineup works out. Can you buy a 25r line only Preamp????

I also have a few reservations about adding more valves into the system too. I don't want to get too rosy and warm.

The Nelson Pass buffer thing looks like the way ill go forward but that's all dependant on what's available parts wise.

[karma67]

all i can say to that is my nakamichi ca-5 didnt sound shallow and bland when compared to a certain 3 letter named phono stage with 2 psu's! i though it bettered it,so did the other person who was who was there.

edit,ive just realised you are talking about pre-amps,im banging on about the phono stage alone. i'll get my coat lol

[Bigman80]

all i can say to that is my nakamichi ca-5 didnt sound shallow and bland when compared to a certain 3 letter named phono stage with 2 psu's! i though it bettered it,so did the other person who was who was there.

edit,ive just realised you are talking about pre-amps,im banging on about the phono stage alone. i'll get my coat lolLmfao, Jamie. No argument on the Phonostage mate, until I've heard one I won't judge.

[mikeyb]

Re: 25r Line Stage.

Yes you can there's one on ebay right now.

But it's not the R version, it was just to illustrate you can get them.


Great post Dave, as usual!

Yes, the Nak isn't something I'm seriously considering. They seem very expensive for what looks like a very ordinary build quality. The Nelson Pass name has seriously inflated it's worth I think.

Have considered the Croft 25 but I don't want the phonostage and don't fully understand how his lineup works out. Can you buy a 25r line only Preamp????

I also have a few reservations about adding more valves into the system too. I don't want to get too rosy and warm.

The Nelson Pass buffer thing looks like the way ill go forward but that's all dependant on what's available parts wise.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Bigman80]

Got a link Mikey?, I can't see it
Re: 25r Line Stage.

Yes you can there's one on ebay right now.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[mikeyb]

Got a link Mikey?, I can't see itHere's the link but I noticed after I posted above that it's the 25 only not the 25r

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 163019334487

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Bigman80]

Here's the link but I noticed after I posted above that it's the 25 only not the 25r

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 163019334487

Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkAh, yes I'd seen that one. I've emailed Mr Croft to see what his input is.

[hifinutt]

hopefully soon you can come over and listen to the saga pre with the FB mono`s . hopefully a sun pm in next few weeks if possible . it is sounding very good with the impulse speakers

[alcarmichael]

I’d definitely recommend you give a Croft pre a go. I wouldn’t worry about it being overly warm either, I wouldn’t have one if I felt it didn’t give me enough detail. It is the longest serving component I have in my sytem. By a long way.

[alcarmichael]

In fact, I am happy to loan you mine if you wish Oliver...

[Bigman80]

hopefully soon you can come over and listen to the saga pre with the FB mono`s . hopefully a sun pm in next few weeks if possible . it is sounding very good with the impulse speakersI'm struggling to get out and about at the minute mate. Time is a precious commodity.

[Bigman80]

Hi Alan,

That's really generous of you but I think I have a plan in place now. It involves some butchery and technical nous but I want to see how it pans out.

Thank you for the offer.
In fact, I am happy to loan you mine if you wish Oliver...

[Pharos]

I have an AVI S2000P to sell which is very good spec, near identical in sound to my ATC SCA2, and has a new Alps motorised volume pot. I only just favour the ATC, and at 6 times the price new.

It fits your original spec. perfectly.

[Bigman80]

I have an AVI S2000P to sell which is very good spec, near identical in sound to my ATC SCA2, and has a new Alps motorised volume pot. I only just favour the ATC, and at 6 times the price new.

It fits your original spec. perfectly.Hi Pharo,

Thanks for the offer.

Seems a bit expensive for the pre when the whole package is available £999? If that's the same model of course.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 192550270076

[Bigman80]

Ok all,.

A decision has been made and when it's all put together, I'll update the thread.

Thank you to everyone for their advice and offers, and offers of loaning me gear.

It's much appreciated.

[emoji4]

[alcarmichael]

You’re welcome. Good luck with your plan.

Why does everyone on this forum call me Alan?

[Bigman80]

You’re welcome. Good luck with your plan.

Why does everyone on this forum call me Alan?[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] sorry, Alex. Nearly every "Al" is an Alan.

[hifinutt]

I'm struggling to get out and about at the minute mate. Time is a precious commodity.

no problems

[Pharos]

I didn't mention any price Oliver, I just stated the availability, and it does have the phono MC/MM option.

[Bigman80]

Ah, sorry. I assumed and you know what they say about assuming!

Apologies Pharos.
I didn't mention any price Oliver, I just stated the availability, and it does have the phono MC/MM option.

[Jimbo]

Oli I could pop by one evening with my 25R and you could try your phono stage through the linestage. I had most of Firebottles stuff running like this and they sounded rather good.

[DSJR]

You've moved on, so hopefully not too late...

The Nak preamps weren't Pass designs I recall, only the Threshold Stasis-based power amps - and these with banks of output transistors (ten a side in the PA7 models I recall), took two hours to come on song from cold - I sold several and owned a PA5mk2 which used to just about come alive as I was going to bed on an evening music session! The ARC SP14 was in a different plane of existence with a huge deep and wide soundstage in comparison which the Croft 4PP had as well. My CA7 was well made though, but the line stage was musically bland sadly, despite the superb build *in the flesh* inside and out. Maybe they chucked too much into it, I don't know. The CA7 did easily beat a Naim 72/HiCap, but today that's not saying much as the Naim projected the sound forward and 2-D and didn't reproduce air and space as the 82/HiCap, 82/Supercap and 52/SuperCap did... Old memories here, apologies...

The CURRENT Crofts don't sound at all rosy and warm in terms of colouration. The old ones could and when I had the last 4PP preamp a very few years ago, Glenn talked me through 'neutralising' it, to bring it more up to date and it came on leaps and bounds. He wanted it back to do the phono stage and check the rest as well, but I never did it and it's long gone now sadly. I hear the Micro 25 regularly and it's superb. My vibe is that Glenn has got an honest 'tone' from the stock valves he uses, but if you wanted to sex it up, you could look out some vintage or mil-spec valves. As supplied, it's honest to the source as checked with an op-amp based preamp that has no 'sound' at all that I can hear.


The Croft phono stage is good too but MM only, but I digress.

I'm only mentioning Croft because the M25 can be upgraded later. The Micro basic available a few years ago can't be updated by Glenn and sounded a bit scrappy in comparison I remember. Glenn's a good guy and loves his music. The whole 'Keep It Simple Stupid' ideal is very much alive in his world - thank Gawd!

[struth]

ca5 was designed by John Curl and Nelson Pass

[DSJR]

OK. Doesn't excuse the musical qualities though, but 'Top End' preamps were the pits in the 80's imo and these things are now costly used so I couldn't try another to see how they are now on modern sources. I just felt I listened with my eyes too much back then and remember, the Linn Kairn hadn't come out at this time and this one moved forward over previous models (their AV preamp set to stereo was also better again over the Kairn I recall)

[Bigman80]

Hi Jim,

Cheers matey, id be interested to hear how everything sounds through the croft but I have moved in the direction of this :-


https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheartofsound%2Enet%2Ff orum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D58923&share_tid=58923&share_fid=4177&share_type=t

Hopefully, once completed, we could do a little bakeoff and see how they differ.
Oli I could pop by one evening with my 25R and you could try your phono stage through the linestage. I had most of Firebottles stuff running like this and they sounded rather good.

[walpurgis]

OK. Doesn't excuse the musical qualities though, but 'Top End' preamps were the pits in the 80's imo

A lot were. The Rappaport I was using was an exception though.

[hornucopia]

A lot were. The Rappaport I was using was an exception though.

On my list of 'One that got away'! I bought one, then returned it as it had a hum (I thought). Later.....etc..
Always liked the fact that they had a secret section potted up in resin!
Love to find one.