View Full Version : World Cup Russia 2018
Its just common decency quite frankly. as svend says these games are beamed all over the world with such attitudes, its no wonder britain is classed as a leper.
Indeed so, sadly... I could say much more, but I'll leave it there.
Let's get back to more pleasant things now... It's no surprise that Brazil are currently leading against the Serbs. I'm confident that they'll win that one comfortably, and go onto reach the semis, at the very least, but they could well end up winning it.
Fate has a habit of working that way, and so in the same tournament where Germany (who thrashed Brazil the last time), have been humiliated by South Korea and go out of the World Cup, Brazil win it.
Martin should perhaps put some money on that one;)
Marco.
Sherwood
27-06-2018, 18:55
So, are you saying it's only they who matter, and that no-one else viewing should be given similar consideration? Do you think it was only England fans who were watching the match?
Indeed, sadly it's the way it's always been, but that doesn't make it right!
Marco.
As I said very clearly, "I would worry if they were biased against the other home nations"
Actually, my family are Irish and according to my DNA results I am zero percent English!
Geoff
As I said very clearly, "I would worry if they were biased against the other home nations"
Actually, my family are Irish and according to my DNA results I am zero percent English!
Well, if the first bit were true, there'd be riots in the streets, and rightly so! Regardless of your DNA, Geoff, you are clearly pro-England - and btw, that's perfectly ok!!:)
But it still doesn't excuse the BBC's earlier disgraceful anti-German bias, in a match that, as Grant says, England weren't even playing in!
I'm afraid (and I apologise to all the England fans here) that it's now completely turned me against England in this World Cup, where beforehand I was wishing them well, so tomorrow I hope that Belgium give them a footballing lesson they never forget, and when England do eventually go out, I'll be laughing my tits off, especially at how much it'll piss off that smug, 'waving bye-bye' wanker, Lineker!! :wanker:
Marco.
Sherwood
27-06-2018, 19:16
Well, if the first bit were true, there'd be riots in the streets, and rightly so! Regardless of your DNA, Geoff, you are clearly pro-England - and btw, that's perfectly ok!!:)
But it still doesn't excuse the BBC's earlier disgraceful anti-German bias, in a match that, as Grant says, England weren't even playing in!
I'm afraid (and I apologise to all the England fans here) that it's now completely turned me against England in this World Cup, where beforehand I was wishing them well, so tomorrow I hope that Belgium give them a footballing lesson they never forget, and when England do eventually go out, I'll be laughing my tits off, especially at how much it'll piss off that smug, 'waving bye-bye' wanker, Lineker!! :wanker:
Marco.
I always support all of the home nations and Ireland in any competition. However, I am old enough to be realistic about their respective prospects. I think England are better equipped than they have been for some time, but any wins from here on are a bonus!
Geoff
BTW. Belgium has some very good players but they strike me as less than the sum of their parts. That sort of reflects the make up of that "nation".
I always support all of the home nations and Ireland in any competition.
Geoff
BTW. Belgium has some very good players but they strike me as less than the sum of their parts. That sort of reflects the make up of that "nation".
Normally so do I, but that shite today has *really* got my back up, so from now on I'll have my 'Anyone But England' t-shirt on!
I do agree with you about Belgium, and actually expect England to win tomorrow. Not sure what that'll mean, in terms of who they get in the round of 16, but if it's Columbia, I think they'll struggle.
Marco.
Stratmangler
27-06-2018, 19:47
Marco
You've said sod all about the disgraceful racial abuse Mesut Özil & Ilkay Gundogan have received from Germans (and it goes all the way up to the top).
What's more the German national team showed great solidarity with their team mates, and did and said nothing too.
So much for having a team mentality & attitude.
And Özil has clashed with German supporters following the game https://www.thesun.co.uk/world-cup-2018/6641446/world-cup-2018-mesut-ozil-clashes-furious-germany-fans/
Lineker has suffered at the hands of the Germans on too many occasions, and that's why he behaved the way he did.
Yes, it was stupid behaviour, but don't read too much into it.
montesquieu
27-06-2018, 19:48
Read Svend's comments, and if doesn't hit home how everyone else in the world, who isn't English, feels about this nonsense, and has done for years, then it never will. I'm afraid that when it comes to this sort of stuff, no other country knows how to make enemies around the world better than England!:rolleyes:
Marco.
As another Scot Marco I have to disagree entirely here. I have no problem with the English being patriotic especially as their team is doing well, and Macca's point is 100% correct - of course if Scotland qualified there would be precisely no impartiality north of the Border - not a chance, zilch, nada.
Maybe I've been down south too long (since 1996, thinking about it, barring a disastrous attempt to return between 2002 and 2004) but I'm supporting England in this one, and frankly I think anything else is small and petty, which pretty much sums up the whole SNP proposition in my book.
Scots should be big enough to support their nearest neighbours, I'm one of many (most?) Scots whose families are 'complicated', only one example I'm father to a daughter born in Glasgow who moved south at two months old, and a son born in Bristol, their mum is a Kiwi (no surprises who they support at the rugby then!!). But on the whole they pretty much see themselves as English having been brought up there, and our brief time north of the Border didn't help as they were bulled for their English accents - kids aged 7 and 5 when they got there - yes adults might see all that anti-English joshing as bit of fun, but their children don't know the difference. This in a place as 'posh' as you'll get in the west of Scotland (Bothwell).
You have an excuse Marco, having a more complicated heritage than most and probably not as strong an English connection as some, but with both Italy and Scotland failing to qualify I think you should get behind England, like I know perfectly well they would get behind us, barring a few knuckle draggers.
And BTW 'we' do not support independence, Scots voted by 55 per cent to 45 per cent for the status quo. 'You' might support it, but the majority of us (even from Irish backgrounds like myself - another complication in a rather complicated part of the planet) saw more value in being part of the United Kingdom. The SNP irritate me most when they affect to speak for all Scots, well they certainly don't speak for this one.
Hi Chris,
Marco
You've said sod all about the disgraceful racial abuse Mesut Özil & Ilkay Gundogan have received from Germans (and it goes all the way up to the top).
That's because I wasn't aware of it. Of course that's disgraceful, but right now my particular bone of contention is with the anti-German attitude of the English commentators and pundits.
Have you been listening to ITV's commentary tonight during the Brazil vs. Serbia game? They were at it there, too!! Laughing at someone who sent a 'HAHAHAHAHA' message about Germany going out (I forget exactly what was said), and then his co-commentator 'making no apologies' for being anti-German, as he's an England fan:doh:
These idiots just don't seem to realise how they're coming across to neutrals, whilst their ignorant comments are being broadcast worldwide to people who care not a jot about England's football history with Germany, as Svend ably pointed out earlier.
The fact is, whilst members of the English media are practicing their distasteful jingoism in public, the rest of the world is cringing at their crassness!!
You know that Del's half-German, don't you? Do you think that, as a license-fee payer, she was 'impressed' by the above comments and those earlier, about Germany, from the EBC team?
Lineker has suffered at the hands of the Germans on too many occasions, and that's why he behaved the way he did.
Yes, it was stupid behaviour, but don't read too much into it.
I get that, but the problem is, as I've outlined, it's not just him - and this pish has been going on mate, for YEARS.....
Marco.
Tom, I'm busy doing something just now, but will reply later:)
Marco.
montesquieu
27-06-2018, 20:37
Tom, I'm busy doing something just now, but will reply later:)
Marco.
Incidentally I was in Bamberg, Germany, watching the game on the night England went out against Portugal in 2006. And I can assure you that there wasn't a single German in the pub (or, indeed in the TV studio) cheering England that night. It most definitely cuts both ways.
Sure, but the difference is I, as an EBC license payer (and my half-German wife), don't have to listen to it!!!;)
Back soon!
Marco.
<Shamelessly lifted from pfm>
'Don't mention the VAR!'.
Stratmangler
27-06-2018, 21:11
I can't believe you're getting getting yer frillies in a twist over Lineker uttering the words "Mein Gott! Auf wiedersehen", with a wave goodbye.
Jingoism my fat and hairy arse!
I just watched the commentary following the game on iPlayer, and there's nothing in the commentary to defend.
There were 4 former pro footballers sat there bewildered at a German side going out at the group stage for the first time ever.
Mein Gott! Auf wiedersehen :wave:
Sherwood
27-06-2018, 21:16
Incidentally I was in Bamberg, Germany, watching the game on the night England went out against Portugal in 2006. And I can assure you that there wasn't a single German in the pub (or, indeed in the TV studio) cheering England that night. It most definitely cuts both ways.
Reminds me of the 1998 World Cup. I had just arrived in Namibia to start a 3 year contract. I watched the England vs Argentina game in a bar in Windhoek full of Afrikaners and German Namibians. Needless to say there was little support for England and I feared for my health when I cheered the Michael Owen goal, alone!
The roars when Beckham got himself sent off through a petulant kick were only a whisper compared to the cheers when England went out on penalties.
To add insult to injury, I found a parking ticket on my car when I left the bar later that evening, for the heinous crime of parking my car facing the wrong way. The police in Windhoek don't have a lot to do!
Geoff
I was in a Dublin bar in 1990 when England went out against Germany on penalties but that's another story!
<Shamelessly lifted from pfm>
'Don't mention the VAR!'.
*That* is funny!:D
Marco.
chris@panteg
27-06-2018, 21:44
I can't believe you're getting getting yer frillies in a twist over Lineker uttering the words "Mein Gott! Auf wiedersehen", with a wave goodbye.
Jingoism my fat and hairy arse!
I just watched the commentary following the game on iPlayer, and there's nothing in the commentary to defend.
There were 4 former pro footballers sat there bewildered at a German side going out at the group stage for the first time ever.
Mein Gott! Auf wiedersehen :wave:
Yeah common Marco, lighten up ffs it's Gary Lineker what do you expect? And because he makes a fool of himself, he speaks for all of us does he? But be honest now it's traditional for the Scots to want England to lose, mind you I remember cheering on Peru in 78 for the overconfident and arrogant Ally's Army, so I think I understand it.
I always wondered if it's more to do with our colonial past though.
I can't believe you're getting getting yer frillies in a twist over Lineker uttering the words "Mein Gott! Auf wiedersehen", with a wave goodbye.
Jingoism my fat and hairy arse!
Then, we'll have to agree to disagree. It's not just what Lineker said, it was Jonathan Pearce's ridiculous pant-wetting antics during the commentary, and his obvious glee that Germany were going out, plus what was also said during the ITV commentary of the Brazil game.
The English don't seem to realise just how much that shit annoys the fuck out of everyone else, as Svend pointed out earlier.
We do get rather tired of listening to, England this, England that, when the automatic presumption is that everyone watching or listening will be an England fan. Like I said, it's supposed to be the BBC, not the EBC. I made a similar point recently about the Royal wedding!
I just watched the commentary following the game on iPlayer, and there's nothing in the commentary to defend.
That's because, being English, the anti-German bias doesn't bother you, or you're simply more tolerant of it, or perhaps you sympathise with it. Read Svend's earlier post again for the feelings of the vast majority of others who were listening to it.
There were 4 former pro footballers sat there bewildered at a German side going out at the group stage for the first time ever.
"Bewildered" and quite obviously delighted.
What we need is more Scots in the commentary box, aside from sporadic appearances from Ally McCoist, and also in the studios as pundits, along with the existing Irish, such as Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane, to temper the 'Pro-English excesses' of all the ex-England footballers, which gets right on the tits of the majority of non-English fans watching.
Then we might stand a chance of getting football TV coverage from a more neutral perspective! :exactly:
Marco.
Reminds me of the 1998 World Cup. I had just arrived in Namibia to start a 3 year contract. I watched the England vs Argentina game in a bar in Windhoek full of Afrikaners and German Namibians. Needless to say there was little support for England and I feared for my health when I cheered the Michael Owen goal, alone!
The roars when Beckham got himself sent off through a petulant kick were only a whisper compared to the cheers when England went out on penalties.
Seriously though, Geoff, have you ever wondered why folks abroad feel that way towards the English? Could it be the bigger picture created by behaviour, such as I've outlined earlier?
Having toured extensively all over Europe, since I was five years old, I can tell you that there have always been advantages gained by letting the locals know that I was from Scotland, not England, and similarly in more recent times, my wife letting them know that she was Welsh (her other half, along with German).
In my experience, the Scots, Welsh and Irish tend to be welcomed with open arms by the locals abroad, yet not so much the English, who seem to be resented more. I wonder why that is?:hmm:
Marco.
I just watched the commentary following the game on iPlayer, and there's nothing in the commentary to defend.
There were 4 former pro footballers sat there bewildered at a German side going out at the group stage for the first time ever.
Mein Gott! Auf wiedersehen :wave:
I'm guessing no one here was listening to BBC 5, and heard the announcer screaming into his mic "NEUER IS A DISGRACE! NEUER IS A DISGRACE!" over and over again. I've never heard such a verbal attack from any sports announcer, anywhere, for any sport. The announcer was the one with disgraceful behaviour. I expected better.
Sadly, it has really turned me off the BBC broadcasts, as I had actually been rather enjoying them until today. E.g. yesterday's game between France and Denmark, the announcers were hilarious describing the utterly boring game they were witnessing. Different crew today, not the same light-hearted spirit.
Regards,
Svend
Yeah common Marco, lighten up ffs it's Gary Lineker what do you expect?
Erm, professional behaviour from a supposedly professional broadcaster. Is that too much to ask?
And because he makes a fool of himself, he speaks for all of us does he?
I'm glad you thought he made a fool of himself, because it's a fact.
I didn't say he spoke for all of you. I made the point earlier, quite clearly, that my annoyance was directly SOLELY at the English pundits and commentators. You must've missed that. You guys, as ordinary fans, can gloat and laugh, at Germany's expense, as much as you like!
But be honest now it's traditional for the Scots to want England to lose, mind you I remember cheering on Peru in 78 for the overconfident and arrogant Ally's Army, so I think I understand it.
Lol... And I wouldn't have blamed you either. If I'd been old enough then, I'd have laughed at those idiots falling flat on their faces, too. They turned Scotland into a laughing stock. However, it was more the media's fault, creating all that ridiculous hype in the first place, than that of the players.
You're right though; it was about arrogance, which if truth be told, is normally more of an English trait than a Scottish one!;)
I always wondered if it's more to do with our colonial past though.
I think that plays a BIG part in things, in all sorts of areas.
Marco.
I'm afraid (and I apologise to all the England fans here) that it's now completely turned me against England in this World Cup, where beforehand I was wishing them well, so tomorrow I hope that Belgium give them a footballing lesson they never forget, and when England do eventually go out, I'll be laughing my tits off, especially at how much it'll piss off that smug, 'waving bye-bye' wanker, Lineker!! :wanker:
Marco.
Aren't you blaming the England team for the comments of a commentator, over which they had zero control or influence?
Aren't you blaming the England team for the comments of a commentator, over which they had zero control or influence?
No, I'm not blaming the team, but given the antics of Lineker and co, it will now be difficult, as a neutral, not to feel some smug satisfaction when England eventually do go out, simply to watch Lineker, and the rest of the English media, cry into their soup!
I'll have mixed feelings though, as there are England fans here I consider as friends, so when that time comes, I'll also be disappointed for them. Hey, who knows, it might never come...!;)
Heaven help us though if that happens, as like 1966, we'll NEVER hear the end of it!!:rolleyes:
Marco.
Stratmangler
27-06-2018, 22:56
Building us up for the inevitable are we?
All I want is for the team to go out and play without fear, express themselves, play for each other, and above all enjoy themselves doing it.
The weight of expectation the shirt has carried needs to be a thing of the past.
If they continue to play as they have they could go far, and that would be a bonus.
If they go out and play with aggression, conviction and skill, and get beaten by a better team there's no shame, or need for sadness.
If they do that I'll be proud of them and their efforts, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.
On the QT, the key to it all is The Three Yorkshiremen :eyebrows:
Lol - I'm with you on that, Chris. I think tomorrow's game could well be a draw, but I'll go for a narrow England win.
Tom, it's getting late now, so I'm going to hit the sack, but I *will* get to your earlier post tomorrow! :goodnight:
Marco.
Seriously though, Geoff, have you ever wondered why folks abroad feel that way towards the English? Could it be the bigger picture created by behaviour, such as I've outlined earlier?
Having toured extensively all over Europe, since I was five years old, I can tell you that there have always been advantages gained by letting the locals know that I was from Scotland, not England, and similarly in more recent times, my wife letting them know that she was Welsh (her other half, along with German).
In my experience, the Scots, Welsh and Irish tend to be welcomed with open arms by the locals abroad, yet not so much the English, who seem to be resented more. I wonder why that is?:hmm:
Marco.
I've also travelled extensively in Europe and elsewhere and never encountered any issues whatsoever, people are generally interested when they realise you are English, they are never hostile.
You're confusing football with real life.
Sorry, Martin, how can you say that? Do you think I'm lying?
I'm relating my honest experience. Yours is different, and that's fine, but I can assure you, my experience abroad, generally, is that when I let people know I'm Scottish, not English, their attitude changes and becomes much friendlier. They often consider the English as arrogant.
I'm not saying that's always going to happen for everyone, but it's what I have personally experienced. Incidentally, it's rarely Scousers, Geordies or other northerners they're referring to, but folk shall we say from other parts of England;)
Anyway, we're drifting now, and there are good and bad people of all nationalities:)
Marco.
Hi Tom.
As another Scot Marco I have to disagree entirely here. I have no problem with the English being patriotic especially as their team is doing well, and Macca's point is 100% correct - of course if Scotland qualified there would be precisely no impartiality north of the Border - not a chance, zilch, nada.
I keep saying this, but it's not "the English" I have a problem with, but simply the English TV football commentators and pundits, who often forget that not everyone watching will be an England fan and/or hate Germany. I don't want to listen to their anti-German bias, nor does my half-German wife, and we shouldn't have to. The English sports broadcasters have to be more responsible and realise that they're not *automatically* preaching to the converted!!
Maybe I've been down south too long (since 1996, thinking about it, barring a disastrous attempt to return between 2002 and 2004) but I'm supporting England in this one, and frankly I think anything else is small and petty, which pretty much sums up the whole SNP proposition in my book.
I think that's obvious, lol!;) As for the rest, you have your feelings, and I have mine. I'm not turning this into a political debate.
Scots should be big enough to support their nearest neighbours...
Fine, and often they do, but the English media should also be "big enough" to realise that non-England fans living in the UK, and also folks abroad, listening to their broadcast, don't necessarily want to hear their anti-German sentiments, and in fact, may be offended by them. For me, there's simply no excuse. If you're a professional, then be professional, and keep your gloating, at Germany's World Cup demise, for when the cameras are off you, or down the pub!
And if this were happening in Scotland, and Scottish football TV commentators and pundits were blatantly guilty of anti-English (or German) sentiments, then I'd be saying the exact same thing. That sort of behaviour, for me, is inexcusable from any broadcasting professional. And comments along the lines of 'That's the way it's always been' doesn't make it right. Something should be done about it, and perhaps if enough people complained, it would.
I'm one of many (most?) Scots whose families are 'complicated', only one example I'm father to a daughter born in Glasgow who moved south at two months old, and a son born in Bristol, their mum is a Kiwi (no surprises who they support at the rugby then!!). But on the whole they pretty much see themselves as English having been brought up there, and our brief time north of the Border didn't help as they were bulled for their English accents - kids aged 7 and 5 when they got there - yes adults might see all that anti-English joshing as bit of fun, but their children don't know the difference. This in a place as 'posh' as you'll get in the west of Scotland (Bothwell).
I abhor all forms of bullying, so I'm really sorry to hear they had to go through that. "Anti-English joshing", or its anti-Scottish equivalent, is all very well if it's good-natured banter, and appreciated by all participants concerned, but not with kids, and most certainly NOT when it's done with malice. I have no time for that crap.
You have an excuse Marco, having a more complicated heritage than most and probably not as strong an English connection as some, but with both Italy and Scotland failing to qualify I think you should get behind England, like I know perfectly well they would get behind us, barring a few knuckle draggers.
Firstly, I have no English connection whatsoever, never mind not a strong one. My ethnicity is 100% Italian, so that's first and foremost what I consider myself as. I was born in Scotland, in Glasgow, and lived there for nearly 40 years, so I obviously have a strong connection with Scotland, as it's my nationality, but none whatsoever with England.
As for the other bit, I was behind England until I witnessed the, for me, highly distasteful anti-German sentiments and gloating yesterday, from the English TV media, which I found rather offensive. I'm sorry, but I can't help how I feel. It's certainly NOT how to make friends elsewhere in the world, and you might look to that as one of the reasons why the English are often not popular abroad.
And BTW 'we' do not support independence, Scots voted by 55 per cent to 45 per cent for the status quo. 'You' might support it, but the majority of us (even from Irish backgrounds like myself - another complication in a rather complicated part of the planet) saw more value in being part of the United Kingdom. The SNP irritate me most when they affect to speak for all Scots, well they certainly don't speak for this one.
That's fair enough, and I respect that. My comment was a little tongue-in-cheek, and designed for effect, although I have rather different feelings from you on the subject of independence, which I'm extremely passionate about, and the kind of stuff I witnessed yesterday only fuels my feelings on that matter further. However, like I said, I'm not turning this into a political debate.
Right, back to football! So how many are England going to get cuffed by today?:D:eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
chris@panteg
28-06-2018, 08:11
Can I just say that I take no pleasure in seeing Germany going out yesterday, just incredible surprise though recent history almost predicted it would happen, I have huge respect for the German approach to football, they always look at what went wrong and come back strongly.
There is always going to be piss taking when teams lose, England are well experienced in that department and will go out again, no doubt about it but maybe not quite so embarrassingly I hope
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 08:47
I've also travelled extensively in Europe and elsewhere and never encountered any issues whatsoever, people are generally interested when they realise you are English, they are never hostile.
You're confusing football with real life.
Actually, I'm differentiating between football and real life. I've worked in 30 or so countries including 5 long term assignments in Africa and Asia. For the most part, people are very friendly at the individual level. That does not extend to sporting rivalries and it should not. Football, as I have noted earlier, is a tribal game and an important outlet for aggression. Shouting, screaming and taunting chants are all part of this tribal ritual, and a great release for aggression that might otherwise turn to physical violence.
Geoff
Yes, I fully agree, but NOT if you're a professional broadcaster. In that respect, keep a tin lid on your pro-England excesses and anti-German sentiments, as they won't necessarily be appreciated by everyone watching or listening. Simples!:)
The relatively unique situation we have in the UK, is that we're a nation made up of four different countries, not just one, as is mostly the norm elsewhere, each with their own fiercely patriotic/tribal set of football supporters, so I don't think it's unreasonable for our national broadcasters to understand that what England supporters might want to hear during a World Cup football match, is not necessarily what the rest of us in the UK do, and make allowances for that.
Can you understand, Geoff, why the bias that currently exists, in that respect, might irk some of us? We need to have a BBC, not an EBC. And the same also applies to ITV.
How would you like it, as an England fan, if the national commentary you had to listen to during international football matches was as heavily biased towards Scottish, Welsh or Irish sensibilities?
We need to move away from the notion that exists of it's only what England fans want that matters. This is one of the reasons why I support independence, as this type of English control/dominance is endemic in British society, on all sorts of levels - football coverage is but only a small part of it!;)
Marco.
Crikey - not seen this much political action on AoS since someone mentioned global warming :eek:
Chill guys - it's only a bleedin footie tournament - WW3 is next week !! :lol:
Yes, I fully agree, but NOT if you're a professional broadcaster. In that respect, keep a tin lid on your pro-England excesses and anti-German sentiments, as they won't necessarily be appreciated by everyone watching or listening. Simples!:)
The relatively unique situation we have in the UK, is that we're a nation made up of four different countries, not just one, as is mostly the norm elsewhere, each with their own fiercely patriotic/tribal set of football supporters, so I don't think it's unreasonable for our national broadcasters to understand that what England supporters might want to hear during a World Cup football match, is not necessarily what the rest of us in the UK do, and make allowances for that.
Can you understand, Geoff, why the bias that currently exists, in that respect, might irk some of us? We need to have a BBC, not an EBC. And the same also applies to ITV.
How would you like it, as an England fan, if the national commentary you had to listen to during international football matches was as heavily biased towards Scottish, Welsh or Irish sensibilities?
We need to move away from the notion that exists of it's only what England fans want that matters. This is one of the reasons why I support independence, as this type of English control/dominance is endemic in British society, on all sorts of levels - football coverage is but only a small part of it!;)
Marco.
Have you heard the Portuguese and Spanish commentators - hardly restrained?:)
Yes, but you're missing the point, James. I wouldn't expect them to be restrained.
They're broadcasting to the Portuguese and Spanish people, at least 90% of whom will appreciate (and indeed expect) bias to be shown towards Portugal and Spain. You could cite the majority of other countries in the world, in that respect, as being the same - their broadcasters are largely preaching to the converted.
It's different in Britain, where such pro-English bias/anti-German sentiment, as was seen yesterday from the English media, is not necessarily going to be appreciated by the Scots, Welsh and Irish. The UK, the last time I looked, doesn't just consist of England!
I trust you can appreciate the difference?:)
Marco.
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 11:42
Crikey - not seen this much political action on AoS since someone mentioned global warming :eek:
Chill guys - it's only a bleedin footie tournament - WW3 is next week !! :lol:
How very dare you!
"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that." Bill (definitely not English) Shankly!
chris@panteg
28-06-2018, 11:48
I have a Welsh friend who has no desire to see England do well but was absolutely delighted to see Germany lose yesterday, I'm pretty certain that my dad a proud welshie would have enjoyed it too, so your argument isn't entirely convincing Marco.
Also to describe Gary Lineker as a professional broadcaster is stretching it a bit? An ex professional footballer who got landed a plumb job more like, I resent how much license fee money he's getting.
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 11:54
Seriously though, Geoff, have you ever wondered why folks abroad feel that way towards the English? Could it be the bigger picture created by behaviour, such as I've outlined earlier?
Having toured extensively all over Europe, since I was five years old, I can tell you that there have always been advantages gained by letting the locals know that I was from Scotland, not England, and similarly in more recent times, my wife letting them know that she was Welsh (her other half, along with German).
In my experience, the Scots, Welsh and Irish tend to be welcomed with open arms by the locals abroad, yet not so much the English, who seem to be resented more. I wonder why that is?:hmm:
Marco.
Marco,
the reason for widespread anti-English hostility is obvious: Britain's colonial history. Even though many of those involved in the colonies were from Scotland, Ireland and Wales, the English are "credited" with the policy and practice of colonisation. Do I understand it? Absolutely, my grandparents grew up under British rule in Ireland and my parents. uncles and aunts experienced extreme prejudice when they came to London in search of work in the 50's. However, I really do think you are over-reacting to a bit of acerbic banter from a player who suffered many back luck breaks against Germany in his career. Compared to how most other nations react when England gets stuffed it was very mild!
Geoff
Can I just say that I take no pleasure in seeing Germany going out yesterday
I couldn't give a monkey's who wins or loses or goes out of the tournament, but I thought South Korea's second goal was one of the funniest TV moments of the year.
julesd68
28-06-2018, 12:53
I think something is getting confused here - I (and English commentators) can be delighted that Germany have been knocked out without being ‘anti-German’. My German friends would completely understand that. It has nothing to do with ethnicity - people are pleased that the favourites are out early and England won’t have to face a penalty shoot-out with them! We are talking about a football team, not the entire German race. Also if you look at the reported global social media reaction to Germany losing, it’s a world-wide trend and plenty of other nationalities are pleased Germany is out as well!
Also, I really don't get this 'Britain's Colonial Past' thing at all. Does anyone think we were the only country in Europe with a colonial past? Of course not. Like wise is it sensible to have a grudge against all Germans for their far right past? I have never come across *anyone* in all my travels worldwide who has alluded to the poor reputation of the English in this way. The stuff I regularly come across is the football hooligan reputation and getting pissed all day and behaving badly on holiday.
It's different in Britain, where such pro-English bias/anti-German sentiment, as was seen yesterday from the English media, is not necessarily going to be appreciated by the Scots, Welsh and Irish. The UK, the last time I looked, doesn't just consist of England!
Yebbut as the UK we all united to beat the Germans. Twice. I expect the vast majority of Scots, Welsh and (Northern) Irish will have been unbothered by either pro-English or anti-German sentiment.
Also, I really don't get this 'Britain's Colonial Past' thing at all. Does anyone think we were the only country in Europe with a colonial past? Of course not.
Indeed. Belgium's colonial record was far worse than Britain's.
WESTLOWER
28-06-2018, 13:32
Wowza! this all got a bit heated....
That Patriotic flag waving nonsense does bring out worst in all nationalities to a degree.
And all that anti England stuff on the thread is just silly and playing devils advocate.
The Welsh, Scots and Irish can't stomach it because they are simply shite at sport, especially football.
I totally agree Gary Lineker is a HOT MEAT STROKER, along with Jermaine Penis and don't get me started on that donut Neville. So I generally watch with the TV on mute as the shite they spew is, well, utter shite!
But it was very funny watching Manuel Neuer make a cock up and Germany crash out. I personally only wanted them gone because they are so mentally strong and are always in contention. 1 less to worry about.
As for wanting a team of pretend French players ;) to beat England. How utterly unsavoury and preposterous!
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 14:09
Indeed. Belgium's colonial record was far worse than Britain's.
Agreed, but having worked in and closely with so many people in Britain's former "colonies" it is naive to think that there is no residual memory of that experience.
Again, what was so bad about the BBC commentary?
Geoff
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 14:13
BTW
I still don't understand why Scotland did not choose independence. I am currently living in the East Midlands and given the choice I would choose to be independent from a London centric government
I think the Union is living on borrowed time and a republic is only a generation away!
On that calming note ..... :eyebrows:
Geoff
WESTLOWER
28-06-2018, 14:28
BTW
I still don't understand why Scotland did not choose independence. I am currently living in the East Midlands and given the choice I would choose to be independent from a London centric government
I think the Union is living on borrowed time and a republic is only a generation away!
On that calming note ..... :eyebrows:
Geoff
Dream on!
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 15:06
Dream on!
For an East Midlands Autonomous Republic? :eyebrows:
Agreed, but having worked in and closely with so many people in Britain's former "colonies" it is naive to think that there is no residual memory of that experience.
Again, what was so bad about the BBC commentary?
Geoff
Dunno; didn't hear it. I notice though that those getting most aerated about it are from countries whose teams didn't make it this far in the competition.
For an East Midlands Autonomous Republic? :eyebrows:
Democratic Republic of East Area Midlands.
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 15:09
Democratic Republic of East Area Midlands.
Rule Midlandia has a nice ring to it!
Of course, once the East Midlands gets independence, it's only a matter of time until the breakaway republic of Derbyshire is formed. Incidentally and amusingly, Wikipedia tells us that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Midlands
'The East Midlands is one of nine official regions of England at the first level of NUTS for statistical purposes.'
From the 'Rough Guide'
'Leaving the Democratic Republic Of East Midlands: You will be required to pay an exit tax. This is currently (as of 2018) 2 carrots.'
Anyway, here's the lyrics of 'All I Want for Christmas (Is A Dukla Prague Away Kit)' by the mighty HMHB to get us back on a footy track:
'There was one in the gang who had Scalextric
And because of that he thought he was better than you
Every day after school you’d go round there to play it
Hoping to compete for some kind of championship
But it always took about fifteen billion hours to set the track up
And even when you did the thing never seemed to work
It was a dodgy transformer again and again
A dodgy transformer again and again
It was a dodgy transformer again and again
A dodgy transformer that cost three pound ten
So he’d send his doting mother up the stairs with the stepladders
To get the Subbuteo out of the loft
He had all the accessories required for that big match atmosphere
The crowd and the dugout and the floodlights too
You’d always get palmed off with a headless centre forward
And a goalkeeper with no arms and a face like his
And he’d managed to get hold of a Dukla Prague away kit
‘Cos his uncle owned a sports shop and he’d kept it to one side
And after only five minutes you’d be down to ten men
‘Cos he’d sent off your right back for taking the base from under his left winger
And come to half time you were losing four-nil
Each and every goal a hotly disputed penalty
So you’d smash up the floodlights and the match was abandoned
And the dog would bark and you’d be banned from his house
And your travelling army of synthetic supporters
Would be taken away from you and thrown in the bin
Now he’s working in a job with a future
He hands me my Giro every two weeks
And me I’m on the lookout for a proper transformer …errr'
montesquieu
28-06-2018, 15:53
BTW
I still don't understand why Scotland did not choose independence. I am currently living in the East Midlands and given the choice I would choose to be independent from a London centric government
I think the Union is living on borrowed time and a republic is only a generation away!
On that calming note ..... :eyebrows:
Geoff
You haven't met many SNP members have you?
I've been arguing with these loony tunes since I was at school in the 70s, the majority of them are odd in the extreme.
The SNP started off as a Fascist party and its worthies in the 30s were perfectly willing to cut a deal with Hitler in return for Scottish independence. The blitz on London was famously welcomed by the Scottish nationalist poet Hugh Macdiarmid and he was lucky to escape internment (some of his fellow travellers, deemed to be more dangerous, were indeed interned).
My maternal grandfather (only second generation Scots himself and born in the 1890s - his parents were both Irish) called them the 'F ****g Covenanters' which if you know your Scottish history was not a compliment. Their role in the events of the 1640s - often erroneously described as the English Civil War ... most Scots are unaware that control of Scotland was under the control of forces loyal to Cromwell for the duration of the war and its aftermath - was quite significant, and indeed quite enduring.
Of course their political completion and religious affiliations have changed, in my view mainly out of expediency relating to the 'cause' (there's a weird irony in the way Catholic bishops now suck up to the SNP, while it's the Orange order unfortunately who are carrying the torch for 'Unionism' - changing the sense and usage of the word in the process). But still, their membership (and I include some dear family members in this) remain a bunch of swivel-eyed nutters with no point or principle other than some dubious notion of 'freedom' - for many of them (not all, but a significant minority) based either on anti-English bigotry or historical, economic and cultural ignorance.
I have and will never have any time for petty nationalisms such as that expounded by the SNP.
From the mock-history programme 'Cunk on Britain' (the presenter is questioning a Scottish academic about the Scots' wish for independence)
'How come the Scottish hate the English so much, when no-one in England gives a fuck about Scotland?'
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 16:02
From the 'Rough Guide'
'Leaving the Democratic Republic Of East Midlands: You will be required to pay an exit tax. This is currently (as of 2018) 2 carrots.'
Unless you are heading east into Lincolnshire where the tariff is 2 spuds!
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 16:11
You haven't met many SNP members have you?
I've been arguing with these loony tunes since I was at school in the 70s, the majority of them are odd in the extreme.
The SNP started off as a Fascist party and its worthies in the 30s were perfectly willing to cut a deal with Hitler in return for Scottish independence. The blitz on London was famously welcomed by the Scottish nationalist poet Hugh Macdiarmid and he was lucky to escape internment (some of his fellow travellers, deemed to be more dangerous, were indeed interned).
My maternal grandfather (only second generation Scots himself and born in the 1890s - his parents were both Irish) called them the 'F ****g Covenanters' which if you know your Scottish history was not a compliment. Their role in the events of the 1640s - often erroneously described as the English Civil War ... most Scots are unaware that control of Scotland was under the control of forces loyal to Cromwell for the duration of the war and its aftermath - was quite significant, and indeed quite enduring.
Of course their political completion and religious affiliations have changed, in my view mainly out of expediency relating to the 'cause' (there's a weird irony in the way Catholic bishops now suck up to the SNP, while it's the Orange order unfortunately who are carrying the torch for 'Unionism' - changing the sense and usage of the word in the process). But still, their membership (and I include some dear family members in this) remain a bunch of swivel-eyed nutters with no point or principle other than some dubious notion of 'freedom' - for many of them (not all, but a significant minority) based either on anti-English bigotry or historical, economic and cultural ignorance.
I have and will never have any time for petty nationalisms such as that expounded by the SNP.
The problem is that those in London and the South East have no concept of how different attitudes are north of the Watford Gap and the resentment caused by so much of public investment being for the benefit of the Home Counties. I live in an ex-mining village where Socialism is not a dirty word. The Scots have a completely different mindset to London and its environs and only voted to stay because of threats and already broken false promises. Fool me once .....
The advantage of London/The South East is that the region gives everyone else in the UK somewhere to hate, whilst simultaneously subsidising every other part of the UK.
Unless you are heading east into Lincolnshire where the tariff is 2 spuds!
Was - it's gone up to 4 spuds (if you can get anyone to pick them....)
Whatever happened to Spudulike?
Sherwood
28-06-2018, 16:21
The advantage of London/The South East is that the region gives everyone else in the UK somewhere to hate, whilst simultaneously subsidising every other part of the UK.
Easy to generate wealth when you control investment and it's almost all inward!
Geoff
julesd68
28-06-2018, 16:34
It seems the debate has reached the BBC :)
"Do Scottish football fans really want to see England fail in Russia?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/d6b4306c-0a73-4da7-9bdc-c2d46173a856
Whatever happened to Spudulike?
Yeah, what did happen to them? Never noticed they were gone until you mentioned it just.
Ok, let's get back to the football now. So.... I hear that England have made 8 changes from their starting line up against Panama, including Vardy and Rashford up front! So what's the score gonna be?
Belgium have made wholesale changes too, but I still think England will win, so I'll go 2-1:)
Marco.
Today is our day of reckoning. If we can beat Belgium and not concede a weak goal, then I’m happy.
It's a non-game. I say one nil, could be either way. No-one is going to want to get injured or carded, the result doesn't matter, we're not going to see either team play all-out.
It's a non-game. I say one nil, could be either way. No-one is going to want to get injured or carded, the result doesn't matter, we're not going to see either team play all-out.
I know where you're coming from, but for me there should be no "non-game" whenever you pull on the shirt of your country! And I don't think any of the players tonight, from either team, will see it as a non-game.
They'll want to be careful, in terms of bookings and injuries, but I'm still expecting a competitive match, with both teams trying to win it, and also the group, simply to keep their momentum going. I also think that England would stand a far better chance of beating Japan, in the round of 16, than Columbia.
Marco.
Yes I'd rather get Japan. But they are a feisty team with some skill and a lot of commitment. No easy games from here on in.
Stratmangler
28-06-2018, 17:43
The advantage of London/The South East is that the region gives everyone else in the UK somewhere to hate, whilst simultaneously subsidising every other part of the UK.
Never a truer word has been said.
Dirty play from the continental side! Makes me nostalgic for the 1970s.
montesquieu
28-06-2018, 19:31
The problem is that those in London and the South East have no concept of how different attitudes are north of the Watford Gap and the resentment caused by so much of public investment being for the benefit of the Home Counties. I live in an ex-mining village where Socialism is not a dirty word. The Scots have a completely different mindset to London and its environs and only voted to stay because of threats and already broken false promises. Fool me once .....
Opinion polls have consistently reflected the 10 point gap in the referendum result or have widened in favour of the status quo, eg June Yougov, 51 vs 38 gap shows it's widened by three points. Only the odd outlying poll has shown a narrowing and no credible one has shown a majority for secession.
I'm with you on the resentment of areas outside the London and the South East I was many years in Somerset before moving to Berkshire and it's clear that the SE sucks all of the investment capital and stuff like HS2 (and now Heathrow Expansion), however they are sold to Joe Public, end up being yet another tentacle of the vampire squid that is London. But London is not England, indeed, increasingly so on all sorts of measures.
Don't even know how I ended up posting on this topic, I don't have a TV and I haven't seen any of the World Cup matches, I don't have any interest in football really.
Well, disappointing, but it doesn't really count. They had the best of us in the second half, no question. Hopefully get some pointers and lessons for the next one from that.
Stratmangler
28-06-2018, 19:57
That was an odd experience, watching the bulk of the players that played in the last two games sat on the bench.
Cracking goal from Januzaj, but other than that it was a decent workout for lesser used players for both teams.
How's the betting going Martin, are you up?
£12 up. From £82 in bets. And I think I've still got a couple of quid to collect. But I took a bath on the second games in the groups, most of the profit I made on the first games got wiped out there. And a tenner on Germany to win the tournament, that slip got ripped up last night.
Still have a tenner on Spain to win. I might put some bets on the knockout games. Not decided yet.
£12 up. From £82 in bets. And I think I've still got a couple of quid to collect. But I took a bath on the second games in the groups, most of the profit I made on the first games got wiped out there. And a tenner on Germany to win the tournament, that slip got ripped up last night.
Still have a tenner on Spain to win. I might put some bets on the knockout games. Not decided yet.
Tricky tournament to predict I feel. No way would you have thought of loosing money so early on Germany!
Lol - I'm refusing to talk about politics on this thread, but there's a LOT I could say to that post of Tom's, and some of the others that have been made on the subject!
Anyway, Macca was right. Apart from a great goal by Belgium, and another solid performance from Celtic's Boyata (my team), it was a non-game. Rashford should've scored with that great chance he had and, for me, Vardy's out of his depth at this level, so England really need to keep Kane fit, as there's not a lot of back up.
Pickford, for me, is an accident waiting to happen against the better teams, with his continual desire to punch the ball, rather than catch it, and I think England will struggle against Columbia. They may rue making so many changes and not putting out a stronger team against Belgium, and trying to win the match or get a draw, then playing Japan instead.
We shall see! :cool:
Marco.
I left the tv on ITV after the match finished and eventually Piers Morgan came on and started talking. I've turned it over now of course but is that what always happens nowadays if you leave it on ITV for too long?
Minstrel SE
28-06-2018, 21:53
Its a tricky competion to call with a range of team abilities. Enough of it is down to the group placings where you dont see Brazil, Germany, England and France in an opening group.
I wonder what would have happened if England had played Germany and it could have gone either way.
England are not the best in the world. They are far from the worst but I dont see a team going much further. There just something about England as they seem to be winging or fluking it against the better teams.
I didnt see a real spark of talent or energy against Belgium. They were beaten by a better side. Japan play with passion and I could see Japan or Columbia beating them.
We are not the best in the world and the English premier league is packed with foreign players.
Pete The Cat
29-06-2018, 07:02
I thought Gareth Southgate gave a good "read between the lines" interview after the match - would've been nice to win but long term strategy favoured finishing second, however from a political perspective he could never say that in as many words.
I think all we know is that England B isn't as good as Belgium B and England A have yet to receive a robust test.
Pete
chris@panteg
29-06-2018, 08:06
I thought Gareth Southgate gave a good "read between the lines" interview after the match - would've been nice to win but long term strategy favoured finishing second, however from a political perspective he could never say that in as many words.
I think all we know is that England B isn't as good as Belgium B and England A have yet to receive a robust test.
Pete
Colombia are a very good side, the key will be James Rodriguez who picked up an injury, if he's fully fit? A real matchwinner and can turn a game, remember his goal vs Uruguay four years ago, magnificent.
narabdela
29-06-2018, 08:26
I left the tv on ITV after the match finished and eventually Piers Morgan came on and started talking. I've turned it over now of course but is that what always happens nowadays if you leave it on ITV for too long?
Cleaning up the resultant vomit is also a right pain in the arse .
Always support the home nation in World Cup. Go USSR go.
I was away at the weekend, so missed some crucial games, although caught the highlights... Not surprised that France beat Argentina, in a 7-goal thriller, as they were (and still are) one of my tips for potential winners, and on that showing it looks like they're warming up for the task nicely!:)
I was also not surprised to see Uruguay beat Portugal, as they're perfectly equipped to go far in this tournament. I predicted at least to the semi-finals, and I see no reason to change my opinion on that.
However, I didn't foresee Russia putting Spain out, who I'd tipped to win it - that was a major surprise!
Hey ho... For me now, it'll either be Brazil or France who'll end up taking the trophy, but if England can beat Columbia, then who knows? It's the most wide open World Cup for years, and with many of the 'big-hitters' already out, England could surprise, however Columbia will prove a stern test.
I was also pleased to see Croatia win (by the skin of their teeth), on penalties, against Denmark. I have a soft spot for them, due to my wife's Croatian/German heritage, on her father's side, plus Modric is one of my favourite players, although that penalty he missed was shocking! They could also be dark horses, but they've never really handled pressure well when they most need to win.
Looking forward to watching Brazil later and seeing how 'at it' they'll be, in terms of their chances of winning the cup. I'm looking for a big performance from them against Mexico, similar to France's against Argentina, who really stepped it up when they needed to! And I suspect Belgium vs. Japan could produce some goals! :cool:
Marco.
chris@panteg
02-07-2018, 09:50
Not looking forward to any antics from Neymar, though I'm at work so won't be watching but Brazil are starting to click, could Mexico upset them? I really like the team spirit they seem to have, good luck to them I say.
Belgium to come out and really perform against Japan I think.
Not sure about England v Colombia, I just think Colombia are well capable of taking England apart if James is fully fit.
Sweden are going to be hard to beat but the Swiss have something about them in this tournament.
Can't believe Spain could not beat Russia. Another tenner down the grid.
Can't believe Spain could not beat Russia. Another tenner down the grid.
With Spain out and Germany it is proving a very difficult tournament to bet on?
It is, I've given up in fact.
The predictions I had for the first round of games were almost all spot on. if I'd have stopped there I would have made out like a bandit. For the second round everyone started playing tactically and I didn't take that into account. Live and learn, I suppose.
Japanese really giving the Belgians some grief.
Good comeback by Belgium
3-2. Play Brazil next
Well, today's two games definitely didn't disappoint!
A goal and an assist (for Firmino), from Neymar, seals the win for Brazil, who I thought looked very professional throughout, and with their quality up front, did just enough to win. I've said before that this is an altogether more solid and disciplined Brazil side, compared with the more 'flamboyant' ones of the past, but still with talented players in key positions, and for me that makes them (along with France) very credible favourites to win the tournament.
As predicted, there were goals galore in the Belgium vs. Japan game, although, I didn't expect Belgium to make such heavy weather of getting their victory! However, coming back from 0-2 down, in the knockout stages of the World Cup, is no mean feat, and shows that the players have real desire and character, as well an abundance of skill.
The third goal they scored (by Nacer Chadli), in a breathtaking passing movement, direct from a Japan corner kick, was simply sublime! :eek: However, they took Celtic's Boyata out of their defence and promptly lost two goals:D However, more seriously, his replacement, Kompany, had a good game. He certainly doesn't lack stamina, returning from injury and playing like that.
However, credit also goes to Japan, who scored two cracking goals themselves and never gave up - at 2-2 they were still trying to win the game right up to the end, instead of playing for extra time like most teams do. In that respect, Japan always have a refreshing attitude!
So, onto tomorrow now, and the big one with England. However, before that it's Sweden vs. Switzerland.
I can see that one being quite tight, and have mixed feelings about who I'd like to win, as my favourite player of all time, Henrik Larsson, will be in the studio wanting Sweden to win, and Celtic's Mikkel Lustig will be in their starting line-up, whereas Shaqiri, another one of my favourite players, will be starring for Switzerland.
I'll side with wanting Sweden to win, but I feel that Switzerland might pinch it in extra time - or it could well go to penalties! :cool:
Marco.
Great trolling by Eric Cantona re neymar and his acting/diving antics.
Love it
http://www.goal.com/en-om/news/i-call-my-luggage-neymar-cantona-trolls-brazil-ace-again/17g9noi25a2rh100uklmu45ab3
Yeah, his ridiculous theatrics against Mexico were just laughable! It spoils his otherwise superb football talents. Someone needs to take him aside and tell him to get a grip.
Marco.
might be a good double bet.. uraguay and belguim to progress..both underdogs but playing well
Yeah, possibly... Either could be semi-finalists... I just don't see anyone winning it other than Brazil or France.
Marco.
The French defence looks too weak to me. Yes they won 4-3 in their last match, but they have conceeded too many goals in my opinion to stand a chance of winning.
Sherwood
03-07-2018, 17:18
I don't think one can consider Belgium underdogs: 3rd in the FIFA rankings?
Geoff
Trying not to think about this game but it is making me sick to the stomach.
Great trolling by Eric Cantona re neymar and his acting/diving antics.
Love it
http://www.goal.com/en-om/news/i-call-my-luggage-neymar-cantona-trolls-brazil-ace-again/17g9noi25a2rh100uklmu45ab3
Yeah, Cantona gave people a real reason to dive lol.
Trying not to think about this game but it is making me sick to the stomach.
Lol.... Well, without Rodriguez, England will never have a better chance of winning this game and progressing to the Quarter-Finals!
England 2 Columbia 1, possibly after extra time and penalties:eek::)
Marco.
England score and punish the bastard Columbian cheats! Can't stand their dirty tactics. Hope they end up down to 9 men, as seems likely, and get royally pumped. On this performance, they're a disgrace to the sport.
Marco.
England 2 Columbia 1, possibly after extra time and penalties:eek::)
Almost right!;)
ENGLAND WIN ON PENALTIES FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER AT THE WORLD CUP FINALS!!!:wow:
Marco.
There cannot be any more England penalty shootouts in this tournament. I cannot cope. I will start self harming or something.
Columbia should have been down to ten men after the head-butting and we would have won one nil. So I think it was a justified outcome.
RobbieGong
03-07-2018, 21:15
Phew !!!! :eek:
There cannot be any more England penalty shootouts in this tournament. I cannot cope. I will start self harming or something.
Lol - did a little bit of wee come out?:D
More comment later.
Marco.
Lol - did a little bit of wee come out?:D
More comment later.
Marco.
So relieved.
I think too much sloppy passing when not under pressure, and some strangely negative play at some points, especially the first half of extra time were the negatives.
Otherwise we looked good, with a little more luck we could have been three nil up at half time. They played some real Barrio football though, threw us off our stride a bit.
Sherwood
03-07-2018, 22:07
Poetic justice. The Colombian team were thugs and cheats. Fortunately England survived another late loss of concentration!
Geoff
chris@panteg
03-07-2018, 22:26
What a nasty bunch, can't believe England won a penalty shoot out, never thought it would happen.
Glad it's Sweden in the QF, should be a better game. Sweden play fairly.
Poetic justice. The Colombian team were thugs and cheats.
I completely agree. They were an UTTER DISGRACE, especially that arsehole coach of theirs 'nudging' Raheem Sterling. They should throw the book at that dick! After that, and the roughing up of the penalty spot, there was only one team I wanted to win, regardless of my feelings towards the English commentators and TV pundits.
I thought England played well against tough opposition, in terms of them wanting to kill the flow of the game and make it stop/start, upsetting England's rhythm and game plan, and relying on hitting them on the break, to try and sneak a goal, but that's the type of team Columbia are, as well as having their fair share of cheats!
Also, with the way the game was going, I was waiting for England to succumb to some kind of 'sucker punch', as much like it often is when watching Scotland, England always have to go through some form of adversity, before feeling any joy, certainly in the finals of tournaments, and so it was with that late equalizer from Columbia, followed by the mentally draining extra time and nerve-shredding penalty shootout.
The thing that makes this England team different, however, from previous ones with, Harry Kane aside, much better players, some whom were world-class, is their togetherness as a team, and how well they've been coached and MANAGED AS PEOPLE, not just footballers, by Gareth Southgate. You can see how well the players are responding to his guidance.
Make no mistake, he's the best manager England have had since Bobby Robson, who took England to the semi-finals of the World Cup in 1990 - a feat which I now expect Southgate to emulate, as the team will thrive on the confidence winning that penalty shootout will have given them, and now that the momentum they had built up after beating Tunisia and Panama is back.
No, I still don't think England will win the cup, as that would almost certainly mean beating Brazil, and they're not at that level *yet*, but I fully expect them to overcome Sweden, although with some difficulty, and for that match to be tense and full of ups and downs too, before England eventually emerge as winners. However. I have no doubt that this team, with Southgate at the helm, who deserves a huge amount of credit for the job his doing, are on a journey and will only get better.
Look out, England are going places!:eek:
Marco.
WESTLOWER
04-07-2018, 08:17
Imagine what England could do if they played with 11 men rather than just 8 !!
Sterling, Alli and Lingard are just passengers. They won't be able to carry these sort of no shows into the next rounds.
G the Waistcoat, needs to wield the Axe.
rmcin626
04-07-2018, 11:11
Good result, with a couple of good performances but they could do better if the hugely overrated Alli is replaced. Sweden play a regid 4 4 2 which is hard to breakdown.
chris@panteg
04-07-2018, 11:30
I think they will have to focus on set pieces perhaps, Sweden very organised and tight, they'll probably look to do the same.
Sherwood
04-07-2018, 12:48
Good result, with a couple of good performances but they could do better if the hugely overrated Alli is replaced. Sweden play a regid 4 4 2 which is hard to breakdown.
Alli is in the team on the back of Kane in the hope that their Spurs partnership will be replicated in the national team. I doubt that and would play Vardy instead, although making sure that he saw more of the ball than in his previous outings. He looked pretty sharp to me when he got the ball yesterday.
Geoff
chris@panteg
06-07-2018, 09:41
Predictions for today.
France and Uruguay to go to penalties with France winning.
Brazil v Belgium 2-1, though would like Belgium to win, do I hope I'm wrong.
Much as I wouldn't want it to happen, as I'm not a big fan of Uruguay, I think they could beat France, possibly after extra time. It'll be tight. However, I fully expect Brazil to beat Belgium, in a game that should have a few goals:)
Marco.
chris@panteg
06-07-2018, 11:40
Much as I wouldn't want it to happen, as I'm not a big fan of Uruguay, I think they could beat France, possibly after extra time. It'll be tight. However, I fully expect Brazil to beat Belgium, in a game that should have a few goals:)
Marco.
I do hope you're right Marco, we need it to be a classic, just hope it doesn't turn into a bad tempered affair with gamesmanship, lots of goals please!
Frenchies are doing well.
Don't mind them winning this a Uruguay are a boring side to watch.
Yeah, glad I was wrong about this match. Beforehand, I just felt that Uruguay could snuff out France, with their dour style of play, then hit them on the break, or score via some form of set play, and sucker-punch them.
However, it wasn't to be and France showed their resilience and class to get the game won and progress through to the semi-finals, where I expect England to join them tomorrow night. I've being saying all along that France would be there or thereabouts, and I'll stick by that, especially they're now showing that hardened 'tournament mentality'.
Looking forward to watching Brazil vs. Belgium, which I think should be a cracker! :cool:
Marco.
Belgium will have to work hard from the start. They won't like that.
Liberdade
06-07-2018, 18:38
Sensational strike from De Bruyne! It'll be good to see if Brazil can pull this back - hopefully we will see some great football.
Indeed, we're in for a real thriller now! Knew there'd be goals in this one:)
At the moment, Belgium are by far the better side. Unless Brazil seriously up their game, I think they could be in trouble... Plenty of time to go, though.
Marco.
Back to the BBC 5 worldwide radio broadcasts, the second announcer for this game seems to be Scottish (can't quite place his accent), and he's a mumbler. For the life of me, I can't understand half of what he's saying! Gobbledygook. It's actually quite funny in a way, as he launches into these excited animated descriptions of the action, and I honestly have no idea what he's saying. Like trying to decipher a 2-year-old just learning to speak. Hilarious! Otherwise a great broadcast, and what an exciting game!
EDIT: yes, he is Scottish, Pat Nevin. Cheerful fellow. Great to listen to, even if I can't understand most of it... :)
Indeed, we're in for a real thriller now! Knew there'd be goals in this one:)
At the moment, Belgium are by far the better side. Unless Brazil seriously up their game, I think they could be in trouble... Plenty of time to go, though.
Marco.
Not happening though is it? Belgium have dominated throughout. Against Brazil!
Nope, they seem to be going out on a whimper... Pretty poor performance from Brazil unless something dramatic happens very quickly. TBH, Belgium are more likely to score a third, by hitting them on the break, as they press to try and save the match.
Looks like the 'European venue hoodoo' has hit again for Brazil! If that proves the case, you've really got to fancy Belgium to win the cup. Plus, it arguably improves England's chances, that is if you consider Brazil would've been tougher opposition.
Marco.
Back to the BBC 5 worldwide radio broadcasts, the second announcer for this game seems to be Scottish (can't quite place his accent), and he's a mumbler. For the life of me, I can't understand half of what he's saying! Gobbledygook. It's actually quite funny in a way, as he launches into these excited animated descriptions of the action, and I honestly have no idea what he's saying. Like trying to decipher a 2-year-old just learning to speak. Hilarious! Otherwise a great broadcast, and what an exciting game!
EDIT: yes, he is Scottish, Pat Nevin. Cheerful fellow. Great to listen to, even if I can't understand most of it... :)
Ha - that's funny! Accents like that can be hard to decipher if you're not used to them:D
Marco.
Ha - that's funny! Accents like that can be hard to decipher if you're not used to them:D
Marco.
Normally I'm OK with the Scottish accent, but Pat Nevin had marbles in his mouth today, at least to my ears. Too funny! A treat to listen to, regardless. So upbeat and positive.
Great game! Really enjoyed listening to it. Looking forward to actually watching England play tomorrow...on television! and not sitting at my desk. Not sure who I'll be rooting for - Sweden or England. No matter, I'll just enjoy the game.
Does anyone here think the Croatia-Russia game will be a sham like Spain-Russia was? What a joke! If the whole corruption thing hadn't happened, how Russia got the World Cup in the first place, I wouldn't be so cynical. But watching Spain basically walk their way through that game and hand it to Russia on a platter, it really makes me wonder.
Well, there we are. In the end, Brazil tried hard, but didn't have enough quality in their finishing to put Belgium to bed, when they were barely hanging on. They've got Courtois to thank for keeping them in the tournament, with a wonderful save from Neymar. Brazil were denied a clear penalty at the end, when Kompany blatantly brought down Gabriel Jesus. However, it was reviewed by VAR and bizarrely not given.
So...... The remaining teams in the tournament are now all European, only two of which are previous winners: France and England. And only one of my tips to win the cup, France, now remain. This is got to be England's best chance of winning the World Cup for years. With every game that passes, and another tournament favourite bites the dust, it's almost as if the scene were being set for it to be England's year.
However, on the evidence of what I've seen so far of Belgium, especially tonight in the first half, and France, IMO, both are considerably better teams than England, but you just never know. For me, Belgium are now favourites, and of all the teams we've seen play throughout the tournament, they have consistently played the best football, plus they've always sought to entertain - and for me that will always win them Brownie points.
Svend makes an interesting point though about Russia, and if there is hint of corruption going on, [I sincerely hope not, though] which causes Croatia to lose against them, like Spain, then England, if they beat Sweden, could meet Russia in the semi-finals and face the same fate... However, corruption aside, Croatia, on their day, are by far the better team and more dangerous potential opponents for England. As I have a soft spot for them, I'll certainly be rooting for Croatia to beat Russia.
If England are to win this cup, then it's certain they'll have to beat either France or Belgium - undoubtedly a very tough task, but not an impossible one. So it's all eyes on the game tomorrow against Sweden! :cool:
Marco.
I think we are capable of stepping it up a notch. We've only played one proper game so far and that was against a South American side, with a different style and dirty with it.
Against European sides in a game that matters I think we can do it. But Sweden will be the proof in the pudding. A confident two-nil victory there tomorrow and I'll permit myself to start thinking it is possible.
If we just scrape it then I won't.
chris@panteg
06-07-2018, 21:47
I think Croatia will beat Russia tomorrow and convincingly!
England v Sweden, I have a feeling that the swedes will get a goal and park the bus and frustrate England, winning 1-0, I don't like to be negative but that's how I see it.
England of old, yes, but this team seem to have a bit more about them.
chris@panteg
06-07-2018, 22:10
England of old, yes, but this team seem to have a bit more about them.
I agree, I hope I'm wrong about this but we'll see what happens.
Just watched the highlights from the Brazil v Belgium game, what a great performance from Belgium, deserved winner's.
England of old, yes, but this team seem to have a bit more about them.
I agree. My gut feeling says England will win (if Southgate chooses the right team), but it might well be after some more 'squeaky bum' time, after extra time, and possibly, penalties!:eek:
Marco.
I really don’t think England will progress to the next round.
There will be a lot of disappointed people - again, but they just don’t seem to be at the same level as everybody else.
Bigman80
07-07-2018, 07:21
I really don’t think England will progress to the next round.
There will be a lot of disappointed people - again, but they just don’t seem to be at the same level as everybody else.That's the spirit! [emoji23]
On a serious note, I hate playing Sweden. They are definitely our bogey team. I wouldn't be surprised if they knock us out today. Fingers, toes, arms, legs are all crossed (which is making it difficult to get around)
COME ON ENGLAND!!
I have taken a step back from watching this last week. All the nonsense with Japan and Poland / Senegal , got on my pip.
Great to see Brazil getting theirs , and Uruguay!!
Anything can happen but probably wont
I am very happy to be wrong!
Stratmangler
07-07-2018, 15:54
It's coming home! :D
chris@panteg
07-07-2018, 16:01
Think I'll keep predicting England defeats, I'm so shite at this... Thankfully.
Can't believe it they looked so assured.
Congrats to England! Very well played. Impressive game and a well-deserved win. Nice that it was such a clean game too...no dirty stuff.
It's coming home! :D
Well that was certainly the confident two-nil victory I was hoping for. Another performance of that standard and we're in the final, no doubt about it.
Pigmy Pony
07-07-2018, 16:33
This week my plan was to get out on the bike during this match, it's not often you get the roads all to yourself. So glad I didn't.
A good clean win by a comfortable and assured looking England, and well deserved. Bike can wait till tomorrow, when all the football-loving dickheads will be back on the roads, determined to ruin my day.
Stratmangler
07-07-2018, 17:08
https://s20.postimg.cc/62a7idvot/Ikea_-_Southgate.jpg
https://s20.postimg.cc/62a7idvot/Ikea_-_Southgate.jpg
Result!
Sweden played with a flat packed four...
I really don’t think England will progress to the next round.
There will be a lot of disappointed people - again, but they just don’t seem to be at the same level as everybody else.
lol yep you were dead right!
don't know what the score is in tonight's game but I fell asleep like all and any Belgian watching the third quarter final ;-)
This Russia v Croatia match is a roller-coaster. Down to pennos now.
On the strength of today's performances neither of these teams is a match for England.
RobbieGong
07-07-2018, 21:03
Russia did themselves proud all things considered and two quality goals from them too.
Had a feeling Croatia would snatch it though if it came to penalties.
England can beat Croatia, I really want them to go to the final and win another historic world cup - Come on Hinglann !! :)
Great semi finals coming up with two teams that already claim the WC their due and two just happy to be there with nothing to loose and having shown greater gameplay, it is going to be fun !
anubisgrau
08-07-2018, 11:22
On the strength of today's performances neither of these teams is a match for England.
not really correct, england scored and croatia got most of their goals as headers after corners or free kicks.... you are a good match but given croatian ubiquitous midfield, southgate has to think of an efficient solution for their fast transition. that's quite an obvious gap but if england forward stay as efficient as yesterday, no worries.
chris@panteg
08-07-2018, 11:58
Yes I agree, I can't see how you could say that, Croatia have come through two tough games going to extra time and penalties, they've got resilience and determination.
I think it will be two great semi finals, the best teams on the night will be in the final, I'm not making any more predictions.
I would love to see France Vs England in the final.
Stratmangler
09-07-2018, 15:32
Neymar's legacy :eyebrows:
14&v=vruEFPu-Gr8
https://i.imgur.com/jLyHMvC.png
Minstrel SE
09-07-2018, 17:23
52 years is very nearly my lifetime. It would be very nice if it came home. Croatia is doable but the pressure is ramped right up with everything to fight for
France or Belgium is tough bearing in mind we have already been done 1-0 by the Belgians and France have scored lots of goals in some tough games.
Ive just a feeling England can do it. I dont go in for the national anthem singing but it would be a satisfying feeling that my home country had won it again after all that time
It would be fantastic if they won it, but I just can’t see it happening.
RobbieGong
10-07-2018, 20:12
Good game - Belgium were handled well by France in terms of nulification in the relevant areas and deserved the win.
As for the the teenager Mbappe !! :eek: Plays and moves like a Cheetah, a seriously gifted talent and will only get better :eek: :eek:
Now come on Hinglann !!! :D
Panama have really upped their game tonight :rolleyes:
I have always had a sneeky feeling they could do it England .
But I especially want them to ,so that I can always have a smile at the Scots and Welsh (not all I hasten to add !!:) ) that are just waiting for anything negative , or a loss god forbid , before they explode their pent up frustration at all the Coming home stuff , and rankle about it for months.
Canner stand the thought of that :)
the tension is unbearable.
Good luck anyway. They have done a lot so won't leave shamed if they do lose.
Festybloke
11-07-2018, 11:35
Nervous, but still got 'It's Coming Home' repeating in my head!
chris@panteg
11-07-2018, 11:58
Very tense, can't relax at all.
I don't see them reaching the final. I do think they might beat Belgium in the third place play-off though. France will win and they probably deserve to.
Minstrel SE
11-07-2018, 16:27
The predictions go a bit quiet dont they :D. I feel this is Englands time but I would feel that wouldnt I. Two very determined teams to go and the French have some nice touches on the ball
If anything I feel tense and I cant handle watching it in a group situation. It becomes a very private affair and I need to concentrate with the headphones on...then if they do lose nothing happened and I can go on with my day :)
8000 people will be watching it in Castlefield Manchester but I cant even face going the local pub to watch it.
chris@panteg
11-07-2018, 17:49
No predictions from me, though I think that France will win it now.
Croatia are good enough to beat us tonight and if that happens, getting to the semi finals is beyond all expectations.
No real surprise for me to be honest.
A quality Croatian side took their chances better.
I'm devastated.
The first half was such a solid performance, Croatia looked out-classed. Second half they came back and almost dominated. They seemed to have a much higher fitness level.
And there better be a good reason for taking Sterling and Henderson off. If they were done in then fair enough but if it was for tactical reasons then a big mistake by Southgate.
Anyway that's it. Good luck to Croatia in the final, I'll be supporting them. Football's not coming home it's going to Croatia and I think they can do it. Maybe next time for us.
56 years of hurt.
Bollocks.
Minstrel SE
11-07-2018, 21:07
And that my friends is why I tend to very casually follow football. When I ramp my hopes up that was just cruel and painful to watch towards the end so I turned it over.
A team that looked well capable in the first twenty minutes just got taken apart. It seems to change before my eyes as England run out of steam or maybe real talent lasts the distance. We were beaten by a better team...simple as.
I got swept up in it and do feel gutted. Im in no mood tonight to congratulate them for getting that far. Its sort of all or nothing for me past a certain point. I dont see England winning in four years time or forty years time. Tonight I feel very low indeed
Pete The Cat
11-07-2018, 21:14
On the upside we didn’t lose due to a bizarre deflection, bad refereeing decision, cheating or penalties, so there can be no complaints or what ifs. We just ran out of momentum today.
However over the past month we’ve had better value from this England team than any in the last 28 years so for me that’s how it'll be remembered.
Pete
Well I rolled a number of valves trying to assess their performance on vocals only. The winner was the EML Lampizator 6th Anniversary 45. The loser?
Engerland.
I agree with Macca as I thought it before he said it. Croatia looked a lot fitter.
Sherwood
11-07-2018, 21:17
I am so fucking angry! England did exactly what they did in earlier games: took their foot off the gas against decidedly inferior teams.
Yes the semi finals was a good result but not good enough given the potential of this team.
Geoff
Couldn't agree more, and I'm not a "footie." It was glaringly obvious.
RobbieGong
11-07-2018, 21:32
I am so fucking angry! England did exactly what they did in earlier games: took their foot off the gas against decidedly inferior teams.
Yes the semi finals was a good result but not good enough given the potential of this team.
Geoff
A hard lesson learned by them I guess and adds to experience.
It's an English side that looked pretty decent though which is good and can hold their heads up this time.
If we'd have made the final we wouldnt have beaten France who will go on to win in my view.
Jac Hawk
11-07-2018, 21:49
In fairness, the Croatians weren't an inferior team, Modric, Rakatic etc. play for top clubs and changed the way they played in the second half to neutralise our wide players in midfield, we missed that final killer touch which will come with experience, if we had it then we would have killed the Croatians off in the 1st half. Hopefully the press won't tear the team to pieces, we were beaten not by a better team but by a more experienced team that have played that level of competition at club level.
chris@panteg
11-07-2018, 22:09
Croatia just looked to have more staying power, maybe the extra experience was the difference.
I think France will win it now though.
anubisgrau
12-07-2018, 00:00
I am so fucking angry! England did exactly what they did in earlier games: took their foot off the gas against decidedly inferior teams.
Yes the semi finals was a good result but not good enough given the potential of this team.
You must be joking, this was a bit like Leyton Orient vs Real Madrid. Sorry to say this, and I am not a Croatian supporter.
England was hopeless tonite, even if it would lead 3:0 after 20 mins (which was possible), this would ended 3:4.
chris@panteg
12-07-2018, 07:17
You must be joking, this was a bit like Leyton Orient vs Real Madrid. Sorry to say this, and I am not a Croatian supporter.
England was hopeless tonite, even if it would lead 3:0 after 20 mins (which was possible), this would ended 3:4.
Sorry but that is just a dumb comment.
Beobloke
12-07-2018, 07:48
I know it's mean, but I cant resist...
https://i.imgur.com/JvIZKKU.jpg
You must be joking, this was a bit like Leyton Orient vs Real Madrid. Sorry to say this, and I am not a Croatian supporter.
England was hopeless tonite, even if it would lead 3:0 after 20 mins (which was possible), this would ended 3:4.
That would be the hopeless England that were winning until the 68th minute and didn't go behind until the 109th minute? Yeah, okay.
anubisgrau
12-07-2018, 08:29
Sorry but I reacted to the bold statement that Croatia was "decidedly inferior team". Maybe you watched some other game.
Was a fairly close affair as you would expect. Croatia just had edge on mental and physical fitness plus skill for me.
So my pick is now out and I expect if France play as they can and have then they should win
Sorry but I reacted to the bold statement that Croatia was "decidedly inferior team". Maybe you watched some other game.
That wasn't my statement and I don't agree with it either but there's no need to swing wildly into the opposite area of nonsense.
I think the French will have their work cut out for them on Sunday.
anubisgrau
12-07-2018, 09:12
Do you think I was serious when I mentioned Layton Orient?
OK didn't mean to insult anyone - I too wanted to see England winning - but something happened in dressing room at half time and I just don't like how they looked between 46 and 124 minute. You just let Croatia come back and take over the game, decomposing England defense with every attack they did. In the end it was 7:2 in goal shots and to me it looked they could do whatever they want, despite old players running out of steam completely.
I guess this also has to do with a general understatement of Croatian players before the game. In reality, the best are the key ones in Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern etc and with a bit more experience and routine than Spurs players. Modric said reading English press and watching other media was a motivating factor for Croatia. I guess stating Croatia as inferior team comes from there. If any of them watched what Croatia played in 3:0 win against Argentina, those statements would not be possible.
Do you think I was serious when I mentioned Layton Orient?
.
Whether you were or not the wound is still open. It doesn't help when someone sticks a knife in it and turns it about even if they are just kidding around :)
anubisgrau
12-07-2018, 09:23
Whether you were or not the wound is still open. It doesn't help when someone sticks a knife in it and turns it about even if they are just kidding around :)
OK I apologize, didn't mean that. In a day or two things would look different and more realistic, especially in comparing powers of both teams.
chris@panteg
12-07-2018, 10:36
Well I respect Croatia, they got it right tactically in the second half, but if someone had given me England to go out in the semi final a month ago I would have bitten their hand off!
Well, just back from a week's holiday touring the north of Scotland, so haven't had the chance to post here recently...
I predicted that England would reach the semi-finals (and that they'd beat Sweden to get there), but didn't expect them to beat Croatia, who I was rooting for, given my wife's Croatian/German heritage, although they were unlucky in the first half, where if they'd taken their chances, they would've killed off Croatia and likely gone onto win the game.
However, once Croatia changed their tactics in the second half and stopped England from dictating play, they used their greater experience playing at this level to control the game and impose themselves on proceedings, such that they had the vast majority of possession and always looked the likelier side to score - and so it proved true, as once they scored the equaliser, there was only going to be one winner.
I'd like to congratulate the England players and management, particularly Southgate, who although was guilty of being a little tactically naive in that second half (he is still learning, after all), I thought was excellent, both in terms of how he conducted himself with the media, throughout the tournament, and engendered great camaraderie in the England squad, and got all the players playing as a team, determined to do their utmost for their country.
It was that spirit of togetherness, and no small amount of skill from the players, which got them where they did, to their first World Cup semi-final since 1990. Let's not forget just how big an achievement that was, and a feat unmatched by very highly paid and hugely experienced managers of the past, so both Southgate and the England players deserve great credit for that. Ultimately, at this stage in their development, they fell a little short of what was required to progress to this year's final.
Going forward, I think that this England team will get better and better and I expect them to be among the favourites for the forthcoming Euros. Therefore, England fans, bemoaning the fact that they didn't reach the final this year have got great reasons to be optimistic about the future, and I wish them well in that (ignore my avatar, as it's just a wee piss-take, lol, and something that was sent to me by my wife's German cousin:eyebrows:)
As for the 3rd/4th place play-off, I'd expect Belgium to win that one, as they did the earlier 'meaningless' encounter with England, where no doubt both teams will once again ring the changes and give fringe players a chance to shine, although it will depend on the day which team wants to win the game more, or be willing to risk any injuries. I think England should go for it and try and secure 3rd place, which would give them due kudos.
In terms of the final on Sunday, I'll once again be rooting for Croatia, but wouldn't be too disappointed if one of my tips to win the cup, France, came through as winners. All in all, it's been a memorable World Cup, one of the best in a long time, with some stunning goals... Let's hope the Euros are as good! :cool:
Marco.
I don’t like the idea of 3rd/4th place game.
two teams full of gutted, deflated players, who I suspect just want to go home to recover and get over the disappointment.
chris@panteg
13-07-2018, 09:34
It's a traditional game, I'm thinking both teams should field the players who haven't played perhaps?
Well then, I'm in the minority... If it were me, I'd see it as an opportunity to go out on a high, by beating the only team I'd played in the tournament that were ranked higher than England. But then, I've always been a 'glass half-full' guy, not the opposite.
Plus, why should the England players be so deflated? Yes, they'll be gutted that they missed out on the final, BUT they did rather better than expected... That is unless anyone actually thought, before the tournament started, that England would win it?
I'm sure that if you'd said at the beginning of the tournament that England would be narrowly beaten by Croatia, in the semi-finals, most England fans would've taken that! Therefore, they should be proud of their achievement, and that they wen't further than Brazil, Portugal, Argentina, Spain, and of course, Germany... So cheer up, and smile!:cool:
Marco.
Sherwood
13-07-2018, 10:08
I agree, it's pointless.
You forget that FIFA is not about football: it's about money. The playoff will rake in a bucket load of cash with tv rights and advertising.
Geoff
You forget that FIFA is not about football: it's about money. The playoff will rake in a bucket load of cash with tv rights and advertising.
Geoff
I agree, FIFA are a disgrace, have been for years and should have been disbanded a long time back.
I see my earlier post went down rather like a lead balloon! :doh:;)
Place is too full of miserable bastards. lol...
Marco.
Minstrel SE
13-07-2018, 19:05
Nah Im more on the angry side about it. 1-0 up at sixty minutes you work at it and you work hard...so near yet so far. Maybe its not a good idea for England to go up too early as they seem to take the foot off the gas in the wrong way
Croatia were not an inferior team but I didnt see an unbeatable side with astounding flair. A solid team but with hard work we can nick that edge and steal an opportunity.
The cameras show us being picked apart from about 30 minutes onwards. Hanging on for dear life became the theme. There just seems to be to be a typical English complacency and tally ho lads, we invented the game, attitude. I want to see the passion and energy of Japan running for the ball and going for every tackle. Theres a level of intensity at that level I would expect to see
England were obviously not good enough but theres something where they didnt step up for the fight which really niggles. You fight and you defend like your life depended on it but they seemed to give up or run out of steam far too early.
All this footballs coming home malarkey is making us look a bit stupid really. Im annoyed..... can you tell :D
Lol, yes! I guess I must just think differently about these things. If I were an England fan, although I'd be disappointed my team didn't reach the final, I'd take a step back and be pleased that my team did very well - far better than originally expected.
You have to remove the hype and look at things more realistically. Until this tournament, England hadn't managed to qualify for the semi-finals of a World Cup for 28 years; in fact they often had struggled to get out of the initial group stages, so for them, this tournament *has* to be viewed as a HUGE SUCCESS.
If you think any differently, then you're not being a realist, or living in cloud-cuckoo land, having swallowed all the 'It's coming home' bollocks, believing that England could've won the World Cup. You guys need to be grateful for small mercies... Try being a Scotland fan!:D
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
13-07-2018, 20:41
I was in Scotland for 2 weeks during the 1978 World Cup - and you think horses have long faces!
Not being a football fan, I would normally have used the England games as an opportunity to get out on the bike for some traffic-free fun. Not this time. I got caught up in it a little bit. Although disappointed by the defeat by Croatia, I think we can be proud of our lot. After all, we finished higher than almost every country in the world.
Or am I looking at it wrong? Should I be thinking 'if it doesn't end with us lifting the Cup, we may as well not bother'? I see a bright future for this young team, but then I know Jack Shit about football.
anubisgrau
13-07-2018, 21:57
Incidentally today I saw bits of Euro 2004 game which England won 4:2.
Within seconds it was obvious what England in 2018 lacked: Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, Scholes, Rooney, Owen... and they were all starters, have no clue how Ericsson made that.
Today, not a single player capable of this level of football...
Stratmangler
13-07-2018, 23:00
Incidentally today I saw bits of Euro 2004 game which England won 4:2.
Within seconds it was obvious what England in 2018 lacked: Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, Scholes, Rooney, Owen... and they were all starters, have no clue how Ericsson made that.
Today, not a single player capable of this level of football...
We're back to coming out with nonsense again, eh?
Some bollocks about a Golden Generation.
The Golden Generation were mismanaged, and couldn't qualify for tournaments.
So much for rose tinted specs and the Golden Generation.
What the current squad lack in out and out skill is made up for with camaraderie and togetherness that hasn't been a part of the England setup since Italia 90, and if you don't agree with me read the linked article in full https://www.mancity.com/news/first-team/first-team-news/2018/july/fabian-delph-says-man-city-midfielder-phil-foden-is-at-the-right-club-to-progress
The success of this England side at this World Cup is just a starting point.
To get to be in the last four in a World Cup is no mean feat.
They have far exceeded our expectations, have played without fear for themselves, for each other, and for their country.
They have done us proud!
I think we have the right man in charge too - Gareth Southgate is not above asking more experienced and successful coaches for advice, and he has been Guardiola's guest at the CFA.
I suspect he's been welcomed at a few other clubs as well.
History doesn't make a great team, it's the here and now, and day to day work that makes a great team.
Great teams make history, but it requires continual effort.
anubisgrau
13-07-2018, 23:07
is you everyday job related to motivational speech?
would be happy to see your theory comes true, though not sure if draw will again arrange a level of morocco, panama, colombia and sweden. i may be a pessimist but in the end of the day, you can't substitute skill for any other virtue, at critical positions - just compare kane and mandzukic, or sterling and perisic, all from wednesday, for starters. this is what decided the game.
England were obviously not good enough but theres something where they didnt step up for the fight which really niggles. You fight and you defend like your life depended on it but they seemed to give up or run out of steam far too early.
:D
i totally agree with that,you've hit the nail right on the head.
Stratmangler
14-07-2018, 12:28
England were obviously not good enough but theres something where they didnt step up for the fight which really niggles. You fight and you defend like your life depended on it but they seemed to give up or run out of steam far too early.
:Di totally agree with that,you've hit the nail right on the head.
Well how would you two footballing genii do things?
You're keen to jump on the criticism wagon, but you don't offer any solutions, do you?
Minstrel SE
14-07-2018, 19:25
Well how would you two footballing genii do things?
You're keen to jump on the criticism wagon, but you don't offer any solutions, do you?
Well I am a footballing genius but they keep rejecting my application form for an advisor role. It could have been a great partnership like Clough and Taylor :) Clough (god rest his soul)/ Minstrel would have sorted that lot out and made better decisions.
Banana skin Southgate is the wrong man for the job as this article highlights
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/sport/2018/05/gareth-southgate-perfect-loser-which-makes-him-ideal-england-manager.
With Minstrel as manager I would have thrashed all that lazy, high wage entitlement out of them. I would have had them running round like their lives depended on it. Plenty of videos of Japan and even the USA in action. All talk of the golden generation(who won sod all) banished and anyone mentioning "coming home" would get it.
There must be some good players who have a connection to England so I would have been in touch with the Queen for an instant citizenship form. I could have had a lot of Croatian sounding surnames in our side...honest he may have been conceived while his parents were on holiday in Margate :)
I would have had Chopper Harris types in midfield/defence and reflective socks to fool the VAR. I would have given them tree straps to do some holding against set pieces...toughen us up to be winners :) less of the English wide eyed sense of fair play and more pro cynicism. If we are going to be a workmanlike team without superstars its got to be done right.
More seriously these was a tactical immaturity and inflexibility that needs serious work. You cant deny there is something wrong and we had a pretty easy draw to get through that far. Im a bit sick of the eternal optimism some have despite past performances. Our History in the world cup also clouds the issue but nobody really wants to be England manager do they?
When football gets to this level, its as much played in the mind as on the field. England got a great path to final, but came up wanting. Still they are a fairly young team and can only get stronger for this and bounce back to win it next time.
They did get the penalty shootout bogey off their shoulder as well so no reason not to be confident.
They did get the penalty shootout bogey off their shoulder as well so no reason not to be confident.
Fair point. That's got to be worth something in the psychological stakes.
Stratmangler
14-07-2018, 20:49
More seriously these was a tactical immaturity and inflexibility that needs serious work. You cant deny there is something wrong and we had a pretty easy draw to get through that far. Im a bit sick of the eternal optimism some have despite past performances. Our History in the world cup also clouds the issue but nobody really wants to be England manager do they?
For the first time in a long time we've had progressive, attacking football.
It's going to take a while longer for everyone to get the hang of it, but there were resonances of the kind of of entertaining, free flowing play that has become synonymous with a Guardiola team.
It's a reflection of the Premier League.
They will improve, and there are some exciting youngsters coming through the pipeline.
For all the youthful naivety displayed, there was an accompanying camaraderie.
The Euros should be good next time around :)
RobbieGong
14-07-2018, 20:52
For the first time in a long time we've had progressive, attacking football.
It's going to take a while longer for everyone to get the hang of it, but there were resonances of the kind of of entertaining, free flowing play that has become synonymous with a Guardiola team.
It's a reflection of the Premier League.
They will improve, and there are some exciting youngsters coming through the pipeline.
For all the youthful naivety displayed, there was an accompanying camaraderie.
The Euros should be good next time around :)
Agreed !
Minstrel SE
15-07-2018, 06:15
For the first time in a long time we've had progressive, attacking football.
It's going to take a while longer for everyone to get the hang of it, but there were resonances of the kind of of entertaining, free flowing play that has become synonymous with a Guardiola team.
It's a reflection of the Premier League.
They will improve, and there are some exciting youngsters coming through the pipeline.
For all the youthful naivety displayed, there was an accompanying camaraderie.
The Euros should be good next time around :)
Well I will take some of that but its too lenient and glass half full for me. It should have been better this time around and not in several years time.
Yes there were a good few goals on the way and a sense of working together. Ok 1-1 after normal time and 2-1 with extra against Croatia is not a hammering but its a world cup semi final and I expected more. They had a chance there but didnt look as though they had anything left in the tank after an early flourish. I begin to wonder if England fluke the early goal and I dont want to feel like that. I feel they could have held Croatia off with a reasonable amount of effort which they didnt seem to put in
will they improve or could the next team be worse...only time will tell
??? years of hurt.... Jules Rimet still gleaming...remember when we could have done it in 2018 :(
For the first time in a long time we've had progressive, attacking football.
It's going to take a while longer for everyone to get the hang of it, but there were resonances of the kind of of entertaining, free flowing play that has become synonymous with a Guardiola team.
It's a reflection of the Premier League.
They will improve, and there are some exciting youngsters coming through the pipeline.
For all the youthful naivety displayed, there was an accompanying camaraderie.
The Euros should be good next time around :)
Yup! You and I are on the same page here.
I really don't get all the doom and gloom merchants. The overriding feeling England fans should have now is one of pride and pleasure that their team reached the semi-finals of the World Cup for the first time since 1990, with some good performances and wins along the way, not bemoaning the fact that they didn't get to the final itself.
Here are the positives (glass half-full outlook)...
You won a pressure match against Tunisia (the first game in the group stages, and the necessity to secure a win, is always fraught with such pressure), by showing great grit and determination, which you probably wouldn't have in times past. Then you thrashed Panama 6-1, setting new records in the process - a team that Belgium only managed to beat 3-0. If Panama were so poor, then why didn't Belgium manage to beat them as convincingly?
For me, that fact deserves just as much consideration, as the one that Panama were undoubtedly not the best side.
Then you beat a more than decent Columbian team, who'd played superb football and scored some great goals against Poland, and had alsp defeated a hard to beat Senegal side, who have a record of winning against much bigger teams - on penalties too, and as Grant says, subsequently getting that particular bogey off your shoulder - a game you'd almost certainly have lost in times past.
Then you produced a superb performance against Sweden, who let's not forget had finished ahead of Holland and put out Italy, to get to the finals, and have since thrashed a very good Mexico team 3-0 and also beaten a tough Swiss side, controlling the game against Sweden almost from start to finish, and winning 2-0. Then in the semi-final against Croatia, you were winning 1-0 at half time, when you could've easily been 3-0 up.
Yes, the second half was the killer, and mistakes were made, but let's not forget that this was a more than decent (and very experienced, much more so than England) Croatian team who positively dismantled Argentina and overcame notoriously difficult opponents in Iceland - no England fan needs reminding of what they are capable of, and crucially who, if they can beat France today in the final, could be World Cup winners.
The reality is that England have done well, but have also found their current level, which was again shown in the defeat yesterday against Belgium, but they'll get better. So right now, based on this tournament, they're the fourth best team in the world. What England fan, before a ball was kicked, wouldn't have taken finishing fourth?
And Harry Kane could still end up winning the Golden Boot!!
That's both the realistic and positive way of looking at things! :cool:
Marco.
Well how would you two footballing genii do things?
You're keen to jump on the criticism wagon, but you don't offer any solutions, do you?
nope but then im a welder not the england manager!
the fact remains i agree with what he said,im not as you say 'on the criticism wagon' .
chill!
Start playing Three Lions by the Lemonheads and claim football is coming home and you know you'll never win.
That song is jinxed and should be banned:D
Only daft arses listen to that pish!:D
Marco.
Berni217
15-07-2018, 11:41
Hope all English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish fans will support France today...
Allez la France!!
Allez les Bleus!!
[emoji2]
Although I've got nothing against France, unfortunately not. Given my wife's Croatian connections, I'll be rooting for Croatia!:)
However, if France win, that's ok. They were one of my original predictions to win the cup. Above all, let's hope it's a good game, with plenty of goalmouth action:cool:
Marco.
chris@panteg
15-07-2018, 11:51
The trouble is it rarely is, I think it'll be a 1-0 with perhaps the game descending into a bad tempered affair with both sides so determined not to lose, hope I'm wrong.
Yes, let's hope it's not a boring, overly tactical game of 'football chess'!
Marco.
I think it will be a bit of a slog. Hoping not.
I'll predict France win 1-0 or 2-0 but I'm supporting Croatia. They could do it.
I'll predict France win 1-0 or 2-0 but I'm supporting Croatia.
Even though they put out England?;)
Marco.
Well, I'm going to go against my initial prediction (of France winning it) and say that we'll have new World Cup winners, in Croatia...
France 1 Croatia 2 - and it'll take longer than 90 mins!
Marco.
RobbieGong
15-07-2018, 15:38
Nowhere near deliberate handball so why a penalty ??
I thought VR was meant to help get things right !? :rolleyes:
Berni217
15-07-2018, 16:00
Nowhere near deliberate handball so why a penalty ??
I thought VR was meant to help get things right !? :rolleyes:
It’s debatable but I think it was a penalty. Having said that, Croatia is playing well and France should be more aggressive!
Fingers crossed...
Never a penalty! :nono: Classic ball-to-hand, rather than hand-to-ball... Coming at pace towards him, about half a yard away, how could he avoid it...?? :doh:
Let's hope that the match isn't decided on such a poor decision (from VAR, too). I suspect not....
Marco.
Berni217
15-07-2018, 16:54
... And France did it. Well done!
Great match.
chris@panteg
15-07-2018, 17:18
The best team on the day, Viva la France, Pogba and Mbappe were brilliant, thought it was a penalty myself but it didn't matter in the end.
Nous sommes les champignons de la monde!
The atmosphere here yesterday was incredible. The French are very happy.
I think we could start to see the beginning of a period of dominance by the French.
walpurgis
16-07-2018, 05:55
Nous sommes les champignons de la monde!
Mushrooms? :scratch:
Pigmy Pony
16-07-2018, 06:10
Nous sommes les champignons de la monde!
The atmosphere here yesterday was incredible. The French are very happy.
I think we could start to see the beginning of a period of dominance by the French.
What do you mean, mushrooms? C'mon, don't keep us in the dark
Pigmy Pony
16-07-2018, 06:17
"We are the mushrooms, my friend,
And we'll keep topping pizza's till the end" :)
Berni217
16-07-2018, 08:02
Nous sommes les champignons de la monde!
The atmosphere here yesterday was incredible. The French are very happy.
I think we could start to see the beginning of a period of dominance by the French.
You meant Champions 🤣
I see they celebrated by holding riots in the major cities. Makes sense.
The 'champignons' thing was very funny! :D I'm sure Kev meant it. Well, I'd hoped for goals, and with a 6-goal thriller, we certainly got it!!
Yup, in the end France deserved to win, although they were more than a touch fortunate with that own goal and dodgy penalty, at key points in the match when Croatia had the upper hand, who I think should be given huge amounts of credit for how they've played throughout the tournament and for finishing as very worthy runners up.
Overall, it's been a great World Cup, with very few boring games and loads of superb goals. Can't wait now for the new league season to start... You can never have too much football!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Berni217
16-07-2018, 10:22
I see they celebrated by holding riots in the major cities. Makes sense.
There were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets across the country. These events/riots were very minor overall.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Berni217
16-07-2018, 10:37
The 'champignons' thing was very funny! :D I'm sure Kev meant it. Well, I'd hoped for goals, and with a 6-goal thriller, we certainly got it!!
Yup, in the end France deserved to win, although they were more than a touch fortunate with that own goal and dodgy penalty, at key points in the match when Croatia had the upper hand, who I think should be given huge amounts of credit for how they've played throughout the tournament and for finishing as very worthy runners up.
Overall, it's been a great World Cup, with very few boring games and loads of superb goals. Can't wait now for the new league season to start... You can never have too much football!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Thanks Marco.
You have to be lucky in a world cup final and I also think that France is a worthy winner with 4 goals.
In this tournament, France managed to tactically adjust their play to each opponent. I think that Deschamps managed to do that because he built a great flexible and strong team.
The future is bright for the team who, I hope, will mature and get stronger.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You meant Champions 🤣
Oh no I didn’t....
I have been giggling about it the last 2 days and have to share this, Kevin de Bruyne, who is not fluent in French, once said in a live interview on Belgium television :"je m'en bats les couilles" which is a totally rude thing to say even her. It roughly translates to I don't give a f*ck and literally means I'll beat my balls from it. Anyways, as they were back on Sunday celebrating with the crowd on the Brussels Grand Place Eden Hazard (who else?) got Kevin to comment again to a hilarious crowd gathered there and the crowd roared back "Samba les couilles" to the team. Who said they're bad loosers again? they're just an hilarious bunch of kids these red devils and I hope they make it to Wembley in 2 years
https://youtu.be/9fmjMazXl6M
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