View Full Version : VTA for dummys
Sorry guys im going over old ground here but this is new to me.
If you are using a different arm from the technics, how do you adjust the VTA?
The ortofon 2m has a 20 deg angle pictured in the booklet but how do you measure that?
Or is it just a case of doing it by eye and forgetting about it?
Hi Colin,
What arm are you using?
Just a tip, but listing your complete system in your signature can be very helpful to others :)
Marco.
Hi Marco, ive actually bought a jelco 250st second hand from a reputable dealer
and i was hoping to buy an armboard at the show tomorrow and tackle a project ive bee putting of since christmas!
It all looks a bit complicated but im pretty excited about it.
I was encouraged to buy the deck after reading Dave Prices articles on how you can transform it with a little TLC
Hi Colin,
Nice choice of arm. The Jelco has a small Allen bolt on the base of the pillar, which loosens to allow the tonearm to be lifted up and down. You're aiming for it to be completely level (parallel to the record surface) in order to establish optimal VTA.
However, speak to Dave C tomorrow at the show and he will gladly advise :)
Marco.
A little tip I learned somewhere to check VTA was to position the tonearm (with cart obviously) onto a stationary record and then place a credit card behind the arm. The straight horizontal lines of the magnetic strip act as a handy visual guide to line up the arm to ensure it's level.
That's an old (but good) tip, Gavin... Try doing that with an S-shaped arm, like my Jelco 750, though! ;)
Marco.
Good tip! Im in two minds wether to buy a mat of dave.
after reading Dave Price i bought a sds and plopped a archomat 3mm on top.Then i read about the lip, so i bought one of the new 285mm sds mats( they kindly gave me a 20% discount) but it still doesnt look right.
Im sure im not the first to find these things out the hard way, and i cant complain the deck sounds sweet and im so glad i took the plunge.
And to think in my youth i did unspeakable things to 1200s!
Hi Colin,
If you can afford to do so, I'd urge you to try one of Dave's mats (you could always sell either it or the Archomat later for not much less than you paid), as in my experience it gives the most solid, dynamic and sonically neutral sound of any of the mats I've used on the SL-1200/1210.
In comparison, I found the Achromat contributed a rather hard edge to the sound and made music somewhat mechanical sounding and 2-dimensional in comparison with Dave's mat. You won't pick up on this though until you try it, upon which it should become obvious.
The Achromat is very good in its own right, but in terms of synergy, I don't feel that its best home is on the Technics....
YMMV, but I think one of Dave's mats is definitely worth a punt! :cool:
Marco.
I'm sure Guru Cawley would be delighted to help you.....
Don't get too hung up on VTA, as every cartridge will be slightly different and altering the playing weight gives a similar effect to moving the pillar up and down a mm or two each way, depending on the cartridge.......
When adjusting the arm-height, use the short end of the Allen key as the lever. The number of grawnched Ittok pillars permanently scarred by over-enthusiastic Linn dealers like me back then is considerable..:D
I like the idea the sound hi fi mat is sticky and with a weight on top will keep the record nice and secure. It just makes sense to me.
Oh well, ill see what happens tomorrow. Thanks for your help everyone .
Ill tell you get on
Ammonite Audio
27-03-2010, 20:00
As a user of the 2M Black in a Jelco 750 on the Technics, I can recommend that you invest in one of Audio Origami's headshell spirit levels (the medium size one). See http://www.audioorigami.co.uk/F_Sale/ForSale.htm . This allows you to adjust the VTA and know exactly what you've done each time. It will also tell you if the azimuth is out. I've saved hours of faffing around since getting one of these little gems.
The 2M Black seems quite happy when set level, as recommended by Ortofon, so that's where you should start, before adjusting VTA by ear. As DSJR says, don't get obsessive about VTA; also don't overtighten the arm pillar grub screw, as this kills the sound.
I can recommend that you invest in one of Audio Origami's headshell spirit levels (the medium size one).
They're also on ebay a good bit cheaper.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170393215663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
I was wondering if that would be useful. Thanks for the tip and the link
Can you adjust the azimuth on a jelco 250st! The headshell appears to be fixed
Ammonite Audio
27-03-2010, 21:13
Can you adjust the azimuth on a jelco 250st! The headshell appears to be fixed
Not as such, but if it's like the 750, it's quite easy to inadvertently nip up the arm pillar when it is not truly vertical, resulting in azimuth errors at the headshell. The spirit level shows such misalignment very clearly.
The Grand Wazoo
28-03-2010, 01:15
Not as such, but if it's like the 750, it's quite easy to inadvertently nip up the arm pillar when it is not truly vertical, resulting in azimuth errors at the headshell. The spirit level shows such misalignment very clearly.
Hi Shuggz,
Does this mean you have to compensate your bias setting a bit?
I'd have thought that if you did this, then the arm would be trying to fall downhill one way or the other, which would surely have an additive or negative inflence on the effective bias that you might think you're applying.
Just a thought.
Ammonite Audio
28-03-2010, 07:16
Hi Shuggz,
Does this mean you have to compensate your bias setting a bit?
I'd have thought that if you did this, then the arm would be trying to fall downhill one way or the other, which would surely have an additive or negative inflence on the effective bias that you might think you're applying.
Just a thought.
No. I just take a great deal of care to ensure that when the arm pillar is secured, it is properly vertical in its collar. Without a headshell spirit level its very difficult to be sure.
Years ago, B&O's tonearms (1202/03/2000/3000) used a combination of a slight spiral on the horizontal races and a amall amount of friction to give the bias correction (1.2 grammes play weight for the SP12 and 2 - 2.5g for the SP14). Works too... :)
dave2010
28-03-2010, 12:52
Hi Colin,
Nice choice of arm. The Jelco has a small Allen bolt on the base of the pillar, which loosens to allow the tonearm to be lifted up and down. You're aiming for it to be completely level (parallel to the record surface) in order to establish optimal VTA.
Marco.A reasonable approach, but maybe not quite doing what you think. It's good to do this anyway, in order to ensure that the arm moves up and down without the cartridge colliding with the disc.
What the optimum angle is may also depend on the disc being played. For quite a while CBS thought they'd standardised on 15 degrees, until Ben Bauer discovered that the actual angle was much less, as the material used in the cutting/pressing processes actually changed the angle at the cutter. Effectively many discs were produced with around zero - or even negative anlge (which is more or less impossible to fix - unless perhaps you play the disc backwards). I think after this discovery there was more of an attempt to standardise the vertical tracking angle - that would have been probably 1965 onwards - but I don't know how much standardisation was actually achieved amongst different record companies.
There are one or two arms which have an adjustment for this at the head end. Otherwise, if you're really that bothered you have to make up some shim material and mount it under the cartridge. I think you can also use some plasticky material - some form of goo - to do this job, and it might be easier to use until it sets. It's the angle (stylus to disc) at the cartridge which matters, not the arm angle. The arm should be as parallel to the disc surface as posssible.
There were probably discs which allowed you to optimise this if you had all the right gear, but not sure if these can be obtained now. They were perhaps only available for labs and recording companies anyway.
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