Ref 3A speakers with BP SE300b

[Avinunca1]

I was wondering if anyone here has experienced the combination of BP SE300b with Ref 3a products. I've read that the De Capo is borderline in sensitivity with some 300b SE amps. Maybe the BP choke input psu would make a difference. I like what I have read about Ref 3a - in particular their capabilities rendering acoustic/jazz/vocal.

My listening would rarely be at high volume.

[Mike Adams]

Personally I haven't found the choke input approach to really affect what the amps can drive...More that it affects what you get once you have everything else sorted.

A couple of points

I have found that the matching of gain in the system makes a lot of difference, in particular the input sensitivity of the power amp and gain in the pre amp.

Not sure which version of the power amp you are looking at but they are/were available in both a high and low gain version and this will significantly affect the above...

[Spectral Morn]

Ref 3A are nice with valves, but for best control you need more power.

[Sherwood]

Ref 3A are nice with valves, but for best control you need more power.

I would agree that low output 300b designs may be pushing it a bit, especially with a low gain pre-amp. However, I have driven my Reference 3a de Capo speakers very well with an Art Audio Quintet in triode mode (15w per channel). No need to switch to pentode mode.

Geoff

[Avinunca1]

Mike,

How does the power amp input sensitivity affect current delivery to the load? If the pre is delivering sufficient voltage to suit the gain of the power amp driver stage, surely maximum output can be achieved into the speakers. My pre is an Aikido design with plenty of drive.

My amp is currently wired for high gain and I intend to change it for low sensitivity though not to increase amplifier/speaker capability - instead to further improve the already very good sq.

I know that ideally I need loudspeakers of >94dB sensitivity according to BP but I have read several accounts of 300b 8W amps and even 2A3 amps powering the Ref 3A De Capo successfully. It's probably a lot to do with room size, listening levels and music choice. Maybe if I go down the Ref 3A path I will need to reinforce the bass with a sub but I do accept that ultimately the amp/speaker combination may not work well enough for me.

My current speakers, some 3dB less sensitive do lack bass with my BP amp They go loud enough for me without significant distortion however.
I will build a Nelson Pass amp at some point which should give me some of the qualities I like in my BP but more oomph.


Personally I haven't found the choke input approach to really affect what the amps can drive...More that it affects what you get once you have everything else sorted.

A couple of points

I have found that the matching of gain in the system makes a lot of difference, in particular the input sensitivity of the power amp and gain in the pre amp.

Not sure which version of the power amp you are looking at but they are/were available in both a high and low gain version and this will significantly affect the above...

[Mike Adams]

IMO it’s part of the question; ie, is the Aikido providing sufficient voltage to get full output out of the power amp? I’m unfamiliar with the Aikido design or how much gain it provides…

Personally I would have thought that you wanted the higher gain version?

The point I was trying to make is that I’m not convinced that looking at watts and db alone is necessarily a great indicator of a good match between amp and speakers as there are so many other factors and Ive found that as well as needing an amplifier that can deal with the requirements of a speaker you also need to match the gain within the system to get good results.

Whether you will be happy with it is going to depend…you can get away with all sorts but eventually it may be musically unsatisfying or restrictive. Regardless of anyone else’s opinion this is going to come down to you at the end of the day and I guess the only way to know is to try…

[Edward]

I have Ref 3A De Capos but no SE amp. However for what it is worth I've run the Ref 3As with a Radford STA25, a Sugden Masterclass and a prototype KT88/EL34 PP amp. The Ref 3As sing beautifully with great imaging and scale - even at low vol.

[Avinunca1]

I've bought the De Capos and they are as Craig says A Mazing!
Running them with my Leak Stereo 20. Need to sort a problem out on the BP before I can try it. In Stereophile the reviewer was using an AN Kit one. The review , like all the others I've read was glowing with praise for the speakers. Just need to sort proper stands out.

[anubisgrau]

My fav small boxes, amazing with Pass Labs Aleph 30. Probably even better with toobs.

[Avinunca1]

I will probably build a Pass M2 having heard favourable reports for the pairing.

[Edward]

I will probably build a Pass M2 having heard favourable reports for the pairing.

Tom, of this parish, got a Pass Aleph design from a Taiwan seller and is most happy with it. Maybe this is something that will work for you?

see:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323276341407?ViewItem=&item=323276341407

Tom's thread is here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?56085-Interesting-LP-Audio-20w-single-ended-Class-A-amp-from-Valab

[Avinunca1]

I think the M2 is a slightly different beast with it's voltage gain derived from a transformer which gives it a pleasing valve like signature.
I will build one using parts from diy-audio.
Thanks for the link though.

[Sherwood]

I should have demoed my Audiosector Patek v2. It is a SS (Gainclone) design that sounds very valve like and works superbly with the 3a's.

I can also recommend the Art Audio Quintet. I am not selling mine but there was a very nice one on here recently that I don't think has sold yet.

Geoff

[Avinunca1]

I should have demoed my Audiosector Patek v2. It is a SS (Gainclone) design that sounds very valve like and works superbly with the 3a's.

I can also recommend the Art Audio Quintet. I am not selling mine but there was a very nice one on here recently that I don't think has sold yet.

Geoff

If the Pass amps are as good as they are reported to be I would like to move away from tubes. The M2 is said to be very reliable and I like Nelson's designs - like my BP, a minimum of components in the signal path. I get a buzz out of building. I think my BP amp will power the de capos nicely and with that seductive SET quality that captivated me with my previous speakers. I don't feel the need to buy another pp valve amp currently Geoff. My Leak 20 sounds very good with them and with plenty of oomph reflecting their sensitivity. I like the EL84s.

[Edward]

By the way Michael do you have a pair of MM de Capos already? I'm not using mine so you are free to buy them if you wish. PM for a chat. But I guess you already have a pair and now just looking for a way to drive them.

[Sherwood]

If the Pass amps are as good as they are reported to be I would like to move away from tubes. The M2 is said to be very reliable and I like Nelson's designs - like my BP, a minimum of components in the signal path. I get a buzz out of building. I think my BP amp will power the de capos nicely and with that seductive SET quality that captivated me with my previous speakers. I don't feel the need to buy another pp valve amp currently Geoff. My Leak 20 sounds very good with them and with plenty of oomph reflecting their sensitivity. I like the EL84s.

I can understand that. Personally, I am somewhat conflicted by the relative inefficiency of valves and the need to keep them on to get them performing optimally. Having said that, I don't think I could part with my Quintet. Have you considered something like a Nuprime design. You heard my STA-9's in monoblock mode with my Maggies. The new STA-6 looks like an absolute steal and you wouldn't need a pair with the 3a's.

Geoff

[Ninanina]

I was wondering if anyone here has experienced the combination of BP SE300b with Ref 3a products. I've read that the De Capo is borderline in sensitivity with some 300b SE amps. Maybe the BP choke input psu would make a difference. I like what I have read about Ref 3a - in particular their capabilities rendering acoustic/jazz/vocal.

My listening would rarely be at high volume.

Michael when I owned a 300b amp I had no problem driving any of the speakers I had at the time which, if I remember correctly, were Rega RS3's, Tannoy System 800's, Living Voice Auditoriums. I also ran the LS3/5a's with just 10w of SET amp and I never thought for one minute the combinations didn't work well

Like you, I also do not listen at high volumes

I happen to think that this amp/speaker matching thing is a bit overrated to be honest

I am experiencing similar findings with my current Magneplanar speakers being run with an amp that most people think isn't 'man' enough but that isn't my view at all

[Avinunca1]

Michael when I owned a 300b amp I had no problem driving any of the speakers I had at the time which, if I remember correctly, were Rega RS3's, Tannoy System 800's, Living Voice Auditoriums. I also ran the LS3/5a's with just 10w of SET amp and I never thought for one minute the combinations didn't work well

Like you, I also do not listen at high volumes

I happen to think that this amp/speaker matching thing is a bit overrated to be honest

I am experiencing similar findings with my current Magneplanar speakers being run with an amp that most people think isn't 'man' enough but that isn't my view at all

I found bass was lacking with my Meadowlark Kestrel Hotrods driven by my BP compared with my Leak 20.