Hello

[DrMartin]

I've been lurking on here for quite a while and thought it was about time to say hello. I've actually been lurking on quite a few audio forums over the past few months but I kept coming back to this one so I thought I'd join. Thank you for having me.

Where do I start?

Ok, firstly, I think my system sounds terrible. But I think it's mainly due to the 'room'. I'll go into details at a later date when I've got a bit more time but I have to put my hands up straight away and say that I am here, initially, for advice.

My kit is all fairly run of the mill but I'm convinced that it can sound a lot better than it does:

Sony XA20ES CDP
Sony SA3ES Tuner
Cambridge Dac Magic
Quad 99 pre
Quad 909 power
Mission 753 Freedoms

Cables / ICs are all old Cable Talk (don't see them anymore) examples.

The Quads + the Dac Magic are fairly recent additions to what was an all Sony ES line up.

I still have quite a lot of old vinyl tucked away but don't currently have any means to play it.

As alluded to earlier, the main problem I have is with the room. It will take quite a while to explain fully but the two main problems are a very lively acoustic plus a stair-well which I think is the main culprit behind a significant lack of lower end. I have literally spent years moving things around trying to get a decent balance in this place but with very little success.

One of the reasons for buying the Quad pre was so that I can use the tilt facility to try to tame the top end whilst pumping up the bass. It sort of works but it's less than perfect.

Anyway, I'll shut up for now and see what sort of response (all puns intended) this generates.

Thanks for listening :)

[technobear]

Hi Martin,

Whereabouts are you located?

If you tell us a bit more about the size and shape of the room then I'm sure plenty of advice will be forthcoming as to how to find some bass and lose some top end fizz.

I have a similar problem with my room. Since I layed engineered wood flooring, if I point the speakers down the room then the bass is absorbed completely. I thought I had broken something and started testing the kit. In the end I got out the Behringer DEQ2496 and microphone and did an RTA. Sure enough there was a steady roll off of bass from 160Hz down with no peaks and dips. The entire floor was acting as one bloody great bass trap!

Pointing the speakers across the room, the problem does not occur. Go figure!

Anyway, what sort of music do you like to listen to?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I had a right faff with lack of bass when I moved into this house. It turned out to be the suspended floor... I seemed to have solve it for the most part by isolating the speaker from the floor by sitting them on stone slabs which are in turn sat on platfoam.
I'm also looking at getting a deq2496 at some point (whybuynew.com sell them bstock cheaply) to see what's going on in my room as I'm not sure I'm getting close to the best out of my bits of kit

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Martin


Post some photos of your set up and that will help us partly to help you with your room problems. Seeing the problem + description will go along way towards a solution.

Welcome to AOS

What kind of music do you like ?


Regards D S D L

[DrMartin]

Thanks for the warm welcome everybody. I will get around to posting some pics of the room but in the meantime just to quickly answer the questions; I live in the hifi desert that is the Isle of Wight - not a dealer in sight. (sorry, I thought I'd entered that in my user details so I'll sort that out).

As for music? You could be forgiven for thinking that I'm a Beethoven fan but I'm afraid I don't really listen to Classical music. I have been around Beethoven's house in Bonn - 40 odd years ago on a school trip - if that's of any interest? Lots of ear trumpets lying around IIRC.

I can't say that I'm into any particular genre. I like what I like, and I like it even more when it's recorded well. I suppose most of my CDs - around 350 - are what HMV would describe as 'Rock/Pop' but there's a fair bit of latin and 'world' (hate that term but it suffices) in there as well.

To give you an idea: when I bought the new amps I pulled out half a dozen CDs which I think are quite well recorded / produced and are good for putting a system through its paces: some Dire Straights 'digitally remastered', Deep Forrest, William Orbit & Acoustic Alchemy.

All my Pink Floyd Cds sound harsh / toppy - always have done, even before I moved here. I bought a few CDs a few weeks ago - just on the off chance that there might be something interesting - Florence & the Machine - harsh, Paloma Faith - harsh, Pixie Lot - harsh - all of them sound terrible, quite piercing actually. The Noisettes isn't as bad but still quite toppy in my room. I'm getting desparate.

Thanks again for the warm welcome.

[technobear]

All my Pink Floyd Cds sound harsh / toppy - always have done, even before I moved here.

They are well known for this sadly. 'Echoes' was about as good as it got in mastering terms. I gather the SACD (DSOTM) isn't too awful either.



I bought a few CDs a few weeks ago - just on the off chance that there might be something interesting - Florence & the Machine - harsh, Paloma Faith - harsh, Pixie Lot - harsh - all of them sound terrible, quite piercing actually. The Noisettes isn't as bad but still quite toppy in my room. I'm getting desparate.

Welcome to the 'loudness wars'. I've given up buying all new releases now because they all sound crap.

Where possible I try to buy pre-2000 versions of older stuff. Beware if buying from the States though as the 'loudness wars' started over there and go further back. Japanese releases are often very good if a little pricey.

[DrMartin]

There you go, I've learnt something already. Thanks for that tip.

My first 'proper' job after leaving school in the mid 1970s was as a tape-op in a newish recording studio in London - Zodiac Sound. My claim to fame is that I helped record the singles for Liverpool Express - Everyman must have a dream - etc. :lol:

Everything sounded sublime in that control room. IIRC we had 15" Tannoy HPDs in Lockwood cabs driven by Amcron amps through an MCI desk.

Even the sound tracks to TV ads for frozen peas sounded superb! You really could enjoy listening to anything. That is my benchmark. Sadly, I was young and very stupid and didn't appreciate what a lucky lad I was to have landed that job and left after a few months. It was fairly relentless 24/7 working and all I wanted to do was ride motorbikes :doh:

I haven't worked in the industry since then other than a fair bit of roadie duties and PA desk work for friend's pub bands over the years. I've always been interested in the equipment & the sound but have not really kept up with the whole digital thing in more recent years - so still a lot to learn there as well.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I bought the new glodfrapp ablum on neils recomendation - if you wan new music that sounds pretty good, that one to go for!

Do you have suspended floors martin?

[DrMartin]

I bought the new glodfrapp ablum on neils recomendation - if you wan new music that sounds pretty good, that one to go for!

Do you have suspended floors martin?

Thanks, I'll give that a listen.

Yes, the 'room' is the whole of the first floor 20' x 16' - open plan - living, kitchen, dining. It's a small detached house converted from an old double garage.

The floor is bog-standard 6" x 2" joists covered with chipboard and thick carpet + underlay in the 'living' area.

Speakers firing down the room gives bass but points at the kitchen end with lots of metal and a 8' x 4' skylight in roof. Stand under skylight = no bass.

Speaker firing across living room area - roughly 13' with stairwell behind - gives wonderful imaging but zero bass.

There are also big radiators and windows to factor in. It's a mess! :lol:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Hmm doesn't sound like it's caused by the same problem I had then ... I'm sure someone else will be able to help you find a solution!
I've not had many I any issues that someone round these here parts has been able to help with

[DrMartin]

Hi everyone. I have spent virtually the entire Easter holiday weekend moving things around and I have finally hit upon a solution to the two main problems by arranging things as per this photo:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg17/Panther_058/New1/S7300707.jpg

Prior to this arrangement, the electronics were on a 5 shelf Sound Organisation rack squeezed into the Left Hand corner of the room (not good for a number of reasons - one being that it can't be seen from the listening position)

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg17/Panther_058/New1/S7300718.jpg

but there was also a sideboard with a small tv etc in between the speakers. After reading through some threads on here I got the message about not having big pieces of furniture in between the speakers (something else I've learned from being on here) so I removed it and - hey presto! Imaging! - proper 3D imaging! - I was chuffed to bits. So then I tried putting the Sound Org. rack between the speakers but this clouded everything again. I pulled the speakers away from the back wall to get the imaging back - which works - but then that's when I lose the bass.

So finally I thought I'd try putting the speakers back close to the wall and the electronics on the floor - (much lower than the tweeters) and voila! imaging and bass!


I like this arrangement but at present I've got nothing except the carpet + a couple of bits of chipboard by way of isolation and I'm fairly certain that things could be improved further with a bit of isolation. Has anyone got any suggestions regarding appropriate furniture, either ready-made or DIY or slabs or spikes etc etc.

PS the speakers aren't even on spikes at present.

[Ali Tait]

You could try one of the low "Lack" tables from Ikea.Cheap and very good for hi-fi support.Like Torlyte on the cheap.

[Ali Tait]

One of these-

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00105323

[technobear]

Looking good http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/thumbs_up.gif

Love those speakers http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/drool2.gif

I solved my disappearing bass problem. All I had to do was reduce the gap between the speaker and the floor (they're bottom ported) so as to tune the bass to the room. Sounds great and looks great too. Must take some piccies.

[Beechwoods]

Wow! Welcome, Martin. It's excellent that you've gone some way towards sorting your 'bad room' problem. I think you might have been reading my Gallery thread, with the advice suggested there about getting rid of the furniture between the speakers... I did this the other day, and dropped the speakers down by about 2 feet and the result sounds like a different system. It's amazing what just moving stuff around can do.

Anyway, thanks for the pictures, it's great you're settling in here so quickly! I look forward to seeing you around some more :)

[DrMartin]

I think you might have been reading my Gallery thread, with the advice suggested there about getting rid of the furniture between the speakers... I did this the other day, and dropped the speakers down by about 2 feet and the result sounds like a different system. It's amazing what just moving stuff around can do.



I did read that and I totally agree; the difference really is 'night & day' as they say. Consequently I'm now doing that thing where you go through your entire CD collection just to hear everything on the 'new' system :lol: I may be some time ...


Thanks for the tip about the Lack Table. I saw one of those on another thread on here and it looks exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. Although in that thread the poster mentioned a slight problem with weight of equipement and the load bearing capacity of the shelves???

Well worth giving it a try though.


I actually really like having it all down low but it's giving me ideas - I keep visualisng some mega expensive tube monoblocks sat either side of some equally impressive tube - based source.

Ok, time to wake up!


Thanks for the quick response and the tips

[Ali Tait]

Shouldn't be a problem,I've had 40kg+ valve amps on top of 35kg+ of MF A370 with no collapses!