Replacement Head Amp????? [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

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STD305M

19-05-2018, 12:36

Barry

19-05-2018, 12:44

What you have already is effectively an MC phonostage.

Some think that an SUT is preferable to an amplifier, but IMO to improve over what you have, you will need to spend quite a bit: even more so if you choose to use an SUT.

STD305M

19-05-2018, 12:52

Thanks for the reply Barry
I just wondered if i got a reasonably good MC phono stage whether it would be better than what im using now

Steve...

Firebottle

19-05-2018, 14:05

You omitted to say that the HA10 has been re-capped with far superior capacitors (and connectors) than those originally fitted when new.

Both Oliver's and my opinion is that it was very close in performance to the superb Denon head amps, so I'd stick with what you have.
Unless of course you want to change to a quality valve MM stage ........

STD305M

19-05-2018, 14:57

Bigman80

19-05-2018, 15:50

Hi Alan,

I didn't realizes the head amp had been re-capped, only thought the lead on the back had been changed.
Thanks for letting me know...
Post now edited.
Dont think i wish to go back to mm, sooo much more detail with the Mc, just wondered if i could
get a little more from the cart by going to a dedicated mc phono stage.
Guess i need to get need a Zyx some day.

Anyone got one they would like to part with???

Steve...Let me clarify a little,

I had a Rothwell MCX SUT, Denon HA-500 and the HA-10 here all at the same time.

Whilst they all performed admirably, the HA-10 wasn't necessarily "the best", it was my personal favourite.

The Denon had more detail and the soundstage on the MCX was deeper and wider BUT the HA-10 was more enjoyable to me. The MCX didn't work for me and I really still can't put my finger in why. The Denon wasn't a great match with the Kontrapunkt b due to probably both emphasising the detail aspect and the combo lost some soul. The HA-10 had bags of soul, and "enough" detail and when the low cost (compared to the other two) came into my mind it seemed like an utter bargain.

There's nothing wrong with the HA-10. It can be bettered mind you. A pair of HM-3's would smash it to shit for instance.

STD305M

19-05-2018, 16:07

Let me clarify a little,

I had a Rothwell MCX SUT, Denon HA-500 and the HA-10 here all at the same time.

Whilst they all performed admirably, the HA-10 wasn't necessarily "the best", it was my personal favourite.

The Denon had more detail and the soundstage on the MCX was deeper and wider BUT the HA-10 was more enjoyable to me. The MCX didn't work for me and I really still can't put my finger in why. The Denon wasn't a great match with the Kontrapunkt b due to probably both emphasising the detail aspect and the combo lost some soul. The HA-10 had bags of soul, and "enough" detail and when the low cost (compared to the other two) came into my mind it seemed like an utter bargain.

There's nothing wrong with the HA-10. It can be bettered mind you. A pair of HM-3's would smash it to shit for instance.

Hi Oliver,
Thanks for the comparison, Ive been more than happy so far with the HA - 10, as you say it has bags of soul, very musical indeed, I just thought i might have gotten a little more zing and snap with a mc phono stage change, I guess not . Perhaps its the limitation of the At33ptg cart.

No idea what HM-3s are.

Regards Steve...

Bigman80

19-05-2018, 16:18

Hashimoto HM-3 SUT.

Very good.
Hi Oliver,
Thanks for the comparison, Ive been more than happy so far with the HA - 10, as you say it has bags of soul, very musical indeed, I just thought i might have gotten a little more zing and snap with a mc phono stage change, I guess not . Perhaps its the limitation of the At33ptg cart.

No idea what HM-3s are.

Regards Steve...

Firebottle

21-05-2018, 10:51

Nice explanation Andy of the possibilities to achieve MC playback.

The HA-10 is quite an old design, no longer available of course, but with the limiting elderly capacitors replaced makes for a very good performing unit.
I have not heard your Headspace but from what I can see it is very well thought out and a bit of a bargain to boot :)

hifi_dave

21-05-2018, 16:23

Thanks Alan. My thinking was that there are very few headamps available, so if I could make one is very low noise, has flexible gain and load options and is affordable, I could have a nice big slice of whatever market there is.

I thought that was the Headspace !!!

julesd68

21-05-2018, 17:29

Hi Oliver,
Thanks for the comparison, Ive been more than happy so far with the HA - 10, as you say it has bags of soul, very musical indeed, I just thought i might have gotten a little more zing and snap with a mc phono stage change, I guess not . Perhaps its the limitation of the At33ptg cart.

I don't think the cart is holding back your system at all Steve. I would be amazed if you didn't get a lot more out of it if you had a decent MM phonostage with SUT or head-amp.
If it was me I'd be looking to upgrade the Brio before the 33.

I have the AT33PTG/II which I'm using with a CJ phono stage and Fidelity SUT - I've heard several of the more expensive AT carts but it sounds so good that I will more than likely buy another one when the time comes.

Bigman80

21-05-2018, 17:37

I don't think the cart is holding back your system at all Steve. I would be amazed if you didn't get a lot more out of it if you had a decent MM phonostage with SUT or head-amp.
If it was me I'd be looking to upgrade the Brio before the 33.

I have the AT33PTG/II which I'm using with a CJ phono stage and Fidelity SUT - I've heard several of the more expensive AT carts but it sounds so good that I will more than likely buy another one when the time comes.In all honesty, until you start looking at higher level cartridges, the AT33PTGII is as good as anything out there in terms of VFM. Performance between the PTG & PTGII does differ so Keep that in mind.

STD305M

23-05-2018, 22:33

I don't think the cart is holding back your system at all Steve. I would be amazed if you didn't get a lot more out of it if you had a decent MM phonostage with SUT or head-amp.
If it was me I'd be looking to upgrade the Brio before the 33.

I have the AT33PTG/II which I'm using with a CJ phono stage and Fidelity SUT - I've heard several of the more expensive AT carts but it sounds so good that I will more than likely buy another one when the time comes.

I do think the cartridge is holding back and not the brio
I had it connected to Alan's turntable and the amp wanted for nothing so it leaves only the HA-10 or the cartridge

In my opinion its the cartridge but i could be wrong

Steve

Bigman80

23-05-2018, 22:45

I do think the cartridge is holding back and not the brio
I had it connected to Alan's turntable and the amp wanted for nothing so it leaves only the HA-10 or the cartridge

In my opinion its the cartridge but i could be wrong

SteveOnly one way to find out, Steve.

Probably cheaper to improve on the HA-10 than the PTG.

Try a Denon HA-500 for about £250ish?

ZYX R100 is probably about £500+ at the minute, such is the demand and availability.

walpurgis

23-05-2018, 23:08

I also think the HA10 is likely to be the bottleneck. It was decent, but can be improved on. The AT-33 is good enough and so is the Rega.

By the way, you'll only get a ZYX R100 at £500 used. The latest version is well over a grand new if I'm not mistaken (good job I've got a couple tucked away :)).

karma67

24-05-2018, 06:58

where abouts is the op in west sussex,i have a very good phono stage and denon ha-500 he can listen to.

Bigman80

24-05-2018, 08:58

Oh, yes Geoff. Used prices are actually knocking around at the £600 mark so definitely cheaper to try a head amp.

I also think Steve may NEED to try a different cartridge as he did seem rather unenthusiastic about the AT when we spoke. Just needs a ZYX at the right price.
I also think the HA10 is likely to be the bottleneck. It was decent, but can be improved on. The AT-33 is good enough and so is the Rega.

By the way, you'll only get a ZYX R100 at £500 used. The latest version is well over a grand new if I'm not mistaken (good job I've got a couple tucked away :)).

Bigman80

24-05-2018, 13:22

A brand new Headspace is only £299.Can't say that's a bad price but never heard one!

Floyddroid

27-05-2018, 19:54

I have the much revered Lentek and to be honest I don't know what all the fuss is about?

Castroil

30-05-2018, 01:36

Hello
I wondered what results I may get using a Rothwell Headspace with my EAR 834p? I have heard that the step-up transformers in the EAR can be improved upon by using seperate transformers when on MC. What would this Rothwell headspace acheive over the Built in transformers in the EAR?

Thanks
Adrian

"MC phonostage" is too vague a term to make any reliable predictions as to how it may perform. Here a few possibilities as to what "an MC phonostage" could mean:

1) An op-amp-based circuit set for high gain (ie low loop feedback). Most of the mm/mc phonostages at the cheaper end of the spectrum are like this. They simply have a switch that changes a resistor value in the feedback loop to give higher gain for MC cartridges.

2) An MM phonostage with an on-board headamp. This type of design has a circuit for MM operation and an additional circuit before it to raise MC cartridges up to MM levels. The set-up you have now is effectively this, but in two separate boxes. The design could be all op-amp, or it could be op-amps in the MM stage and discrete transistors in the headamp part. Or it could use any combination/permutation of op-amps, bi-polar transistors, FETs or valves. My Rialto phonostage is an " MM phonostage + headamp" type and uses discrete transistors throughout.

3) An MM phonostage with on-board step-up transformers. These are less common because transformers are expensive, but EAR phonostages work this way, with valves as the active devices for the MM section. My own Signature One phonostage is like this but uses transistors in the MM section.

There are just too many possible ways to execute an "MC phonostage" to lump them all together and say definitively one would/wouldn't out-perform your current setup.
BTW, if you wanted to buy a different headamp there aren't many on the market - but I make one. It's called the Headspace
http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/headspace_mc_headamp.html

Here are a couple of reviews from other forums:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/rothwell-headspace-2-thumbs-up.817174/

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/113469-rothwell-headspace/?tab=comments#comment-2018258

STD305M

30-05-2018, 12:56

I listened to a ZYX and at 33ptg mk2 and have to say that it better suited my system and my ears than the ptg33
I'm now on the lookout for a Denon HA 10 or Rothwell Headspace or similar thats not too expensive

Steve

hifi_dave

30-05-2018, 16:29

The Headspace is a bargain. IMO

Intenso

02-06-2018, 11:32

I picked up a Headspace the other day and can confirm that it is a leap up from an AT630 SUT I was using.

It seems to have a very dynamic sound yet retains the warmth of the original recording.

I thought it hummed at 1st but I discovered the hum was due to the tubes in my phono stage and went when I replaced them.

I'm using an Ortofon Quintet Bronze 0.3v with 5ohm internal impedance.

I've set the headspace to 20db gain and 55r load impedance but not sure if this is the best settings?

All in all a great little addition to my kit!

Intenso

03-06-2018, 11:30

I've settled for 20db and 65r in the end, higher gains seems to increase the hum and increasing the impedance improved the bass a little.

Overall, this is indeed a great sounding head amp.

It has a very alive feel to it with good detail and impact...

hifi_dave

04-06-2018, 17:04

It is a great little head amp. I have heard worse at 10 x the price.

STD305M

14-06-2018, 06:38

Hi All,

I'm currently using a A&R Cambridge HA10 (re capped and better connectors by Mr Firebottle )and then into my Rega Brio2017 and would like to know if I would
benefit using a MC phono stage in place of the HA10 and Brio Phono stage??
I'm using the 2Experience SB DC and Audio Technica At33Ptg cart

Suggestion Appreciated

Regards Steve...

I'm now sorted, for the time being at least.
I ended up getting an upgraded Denon ha 500 from Phonomac. Quite a piece of kit.
I wiil be giving my opinions and posting pics in a while

Steve...

karma67

15-06-2018, 16:05

in what way has it been upgraded out of interest?

STD305M

18-06-2018, 14:21

Hi Jamie

The changes to the Denon headamp are posted in

Denon HA500 in the Analogue Art section

Steve

karma67

18-06-2018, 15:46

thanks steve. i would be good to compare against my standard one some time :cool: