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View Full Version : Phonostage Bake-Off - 08/07/18 - Penkridge *NOW CONFIRMED*



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Bigman80
15-05-2018, 17:37
Phonostage Bakeoff at Penkridge Peace Memorial hall is now booked and CONFIRMED for 08/07/18.

Any kit will be welcome for the afternoon session so feel free to bring ANYTHING you want to. We can cobble a few systems together and see how we get on.


Address:-

Peace Memorial Hall,
Pinfold Lane
Penkridge,
Stafford
ST19 5AP


Time:-

10:00 - 20:00


Hotels nearby include:

The Littleton Arms,
St.Michaels' Square,
Penkridge
ST19 5AL


Bridge House Hotel,
Stone Cross,
Penkridge,
Stafford
ST19 5AS


Mercure,
Pinfold Ln,
Penkridge,
Stafford
ST19 5QP


Food and Drink:-

TOO MANY TO LIST!!!!
There are lots of local eateries for Lunch and Dinner. Local shops and pubs. Perfectly situated a few minutes from the M6 J13. Penkridge also has a train station which is within easy walking distance of the venue. Serviced by the LNWR services from Liverpool-Stafford-Wolverhampton-Milton Keynes-London Euston and vice versa.

In an attempt to guesstimate how many of you fine folk will be attending, Drop me a PM with what you plan to bring (if anything!) There is no requirement to bring anything and numbers won't be limited, unless we hit 100 [emoji6] !!

*****This is an AOS members event and there will be a verification system in place on the day. Please have your login details available on the day *****

Bigman80
15-05-2018, 17:58
Confirmed equipment list:

Qwin - Aqvox 2Ci Phono Stage
Firebottle - Firebottle Vivant
Bigman80 - Wizard Phonostage
Jimbo - Croft 25 Preamp with Phonostage
MCRU - LDA JFET Phonostage
Primalsea - WD Clone Phonostage
Ali Tait - Modwright Phonostage
Crackles - Trichord Dino II
Blackmass - Trilogy phonostage*
Lee Henley - Modified EAR phonostage
Ijrussel - Trilogy 907 phonostage*


We are still looking for the following:

Tom Evans Mastergroove
Paradise Phonostage
Aurorasound VIDA

Anything else you may have!

Jimbo
16-05-2018, 11:23
Hi Oli,

Just a thought, would it be possible to open up the day to include other equipment any AOS member wants to bring along? Might make the event even more interesting along the lines of the NEBO and WMBO events we have held in the past.

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 12:07
Absolutely Jim!

Why not do the bakeoff in the morning and then everything else after? We do have the venue for 10 hours lol.

Great shout.
Hi Oli,

Just a thought, would it be possible to open up the day to include other equipment any AOS member wants to bring along? Might make the event even more interesting along the lines of the NEBO and WMBO events we have held in the past.

Ali Tait
16-05-2018, 12:25
I’ll bring my OTL as well then. Only 6w/Ch though.

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 13:33
I’ll bring my OTL as well then. Only 6w/Ch though.Yes, please do!

I like OTL amps.

karma67
16-05-2018, 15:43
oli i got your pm,if i come can i bring the nakamichi pre and the john wood kt88 amp? do valve amps travel well?

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 15:56
oli i got your pm,if i come can i bring the nakamichi pre and the john wood kt88 amp? do valve amps travel well?Yes you can mate. Absolutely. I'd love to hear them both and finally meet you after all of our chats lol

Valve gear travels as well as anything if you look after it.

pure sound
16-05-2018, 16:08
When they do these types of shoot out at the various Euro Triode Festivals I've been to, they pair off the competing items, so if they had 8 to compare A would face B, C would face D, E would face F and G v H with the winner of each shoot out going through to the next round. They do it by listening to 2 x 2 minute excerpts ie A first then B, then (with a different track) B first then A and the audience raise their hands at the end to express a preference. Who preferred A? Who preferred B? It always works best when the audience can't actually see which one is playing and they do take some measurements beforehand to make sure that the outputs will be level matched at line level or the comparisons are simply misleading.

There are pro's & cons to this approach and it can be tiring if there are too many to do. At ETF, they generally have a break for at least an hour, half way through the comparisons. And they vary the music tracks used.

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 16:10
When they do these types of shoot out at the various Euro Triode Festivals I've been to, they pair off the competing items, so if they had 8 to compare A would face B, C would face D, E would face F and G v H with the winner of each shoot out going through to the next round. They do it by listening to 2 x 2 minute excerpts ie A first then B, then B first then A and the audience raise their hands at the end to express a preference. Who preferred A? Who preferred B? It always works best when the audience can't actually see which one is playing and they do take some measurements beforehand to make sure that the outputs will be level matched at line level or the comparisons are simply misleading.

There are pro's & cons to this approach and it can be tiring if there are too many to do. At ETF, they generally have a break for at least an hour, half way through the comparisons. And they vary the music tracks used.Oh, I like that idea. A "knockout competition" so to speak. Also done blind?? That sounds really fair actually. I may adopt that approach. Fancy participating for fun, Guy?

pure sound
16-05-2018, 16:14
I'd need to check whether I'm free. July gets busy with family commitments.

The level matching is crucial but you'll also need to decide whether this is an MM shoot out or MC. Some stages like the Paradise are only MC if memory serves.

Firebottle
16-05-2018, 16:14
Has anyone got a test record with continuous tones on it?

I can bring an oscilloscope so levels can be accurately matched.

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 16:20
I'd need to check whether I'm free. July gets busy with family commitments.

The level matching is crucial but you'll also need to decide whether this is an MM shoot out or MC. Some stages like the Paradise are only MC if memory serves.It'll be MC but if someone wants to throw an MM stage in, maybe FB could provide a standardised Head amp for he day? I'll have to look into it.

pure sound
16-05-2018, 16:46
The other thing it'd be handy to check would be the Eq accuracy. A noise source (test CD) & an accurate inverse RIAA are needed. Also some means of capturing the output.

I've a friend who has a lovely, lush sounding, home built LCR stage. He knows that it deviates from the prescribed curve quite a bit but sounds so sweet as is, he has no inclination to change it & I've heard plenty of 'accurate' stages that sound far worse! That kind of deviation can make a stage stand out, often favourably.

karma67
16-05-2018, 16:46
the nak has both mm and mc,i can also bring the denon ha500 head amp too.

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 17:16
The other thing it'd be handy to check would be the Eq accuracy. A noise source (test CD) & an accurate inverse RIAA are needed. Also some means of capturing the output.

I've a friend who has a lovely, lush sounding, home built LCR stage. He knows that it deviates from the prescribed curve quite a bit but sounds so sweet as is, he has no inclination to change it & I've heard plenty of 'accurate' stages that sound far worse! That kind of deviation can make a stage stand out, often favourably.Ok, RIAA curve accuracy probably would be a good measurement. I don't want to get too scientific though as often the best judgment is with the ears.

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 17:20
the nak has both mm and mc,i can also bring the denon ha500 head amp too.Good bit of kit that is. Yup, no harm it being here mate.

pure sound
16-05-2018, 21:53
Ok, RIAA curve accuracy probably would be a good measurement. I don't want to get too scientific though as often the best judgment is with the ears.

Quite agree. It has to be fun but it's surprisingly easy to be swayed by frequency response deviations and unmatched levels. For it to be a meaningful exercise there needs to be some control even if any odd measurements are referred to & acknowledged in the subsequent discussion.

walpurgis
16-05-2018, 21:57
I'm not sure expectations at a bake off are likely to quite be the same as those from laboratory condition trials. :)

Bigman80
16-05-2018, 23:55
I'm not sure expectations at a bake off are likely to quite be the same as those from laboratory condition trials. :)I see the value in it but let's be honest, it's more about the listening and enjoying. After all, that's what we do at home. Feel free to measure anything the owner give permission to, I wouldn't deprive anyone of any information they wanted to gain from the day.

pure sound
17-05-2018, 10:16
Yes, checking the Eq accuracy may be a bit much for this occasion! But do try to match the outputs at line level.

Bigman80
17-05-2018, 10:28
We will do Guy, can't have a phonostage gaining a volume advantage!!!

Hopefully we see you there? [emoji6]
Yes, checking the Eq accuracy may be a bit much for this occasion! But do try to match the outputs at line level.

Yomanze
18-05-2018, 13:02
I could bring my LFD DLS pre as discussed. It also has 2x sets of LFD Grainless interconnects and an LFD power cable, which are a natural match. This is one very very transparent and dynamic preamp, which unlike my old Krell, cavernously deep and rich as it was, will easily highlight any difference in source components.

Bigman80
18-05-2018, 13:16
Yes, we did discuss and yes, you should bring it. A little comparison with the Slagle AVC is of interest.
I could bring my LFD DLS pre as discussed. It also has 2x sets of LFD Grainless interconnects and an LFD power cable, which are a natural match. This is one very very transparent and dynamic preamp, which unlike my old Krell, cavernously deep and rich as it was, will easily highlight any difference in source components.

Bigman80
23-05-2018, 22:48
Still looking for the following

Paradise phonostage
Vida phonostage
Any LCR phonostages.

Floyddroid
25-05-2018, 21:43
Phonostage Bakeoff at Penkridge Peace Memorial hall is now booked and CONFIRMED for 08/07/18.

Any kit will be welcome for the afternoon session so feel free to bring ANYTHING you want to. We can cobble a few systems together and see how we get on.


Address:-

Peace Memorial Hall,
Pinfold Lane
Penkridge,
Stafford
ST19 5AP


Time:-

10:00 - 20:00


Hotels nearby include:

The Littleton Arms,
St.Michaels' Square,
Penkridge
ST19 5AL


Bridge House Hotel,
Stone Cross,
Penkridge,
Stafford
ST19 5AS


Mercure,
Pinfold Ln,
Penkridge,
Stafford
ST19 5QP


Food and Drink:-

TOO MANY TO LIST!!!!
There are lots of local eateries for Lunch and Dinner. Local shops and pubs. Perfectly situated a few minutes from the M6 J13. Penkridge also has a train station which is within easy walking distance of the venue. Serviced by the LNWR services from Liverpool-Stafford-Wolverhampton-Milton Keynes-London Euston and vice versa.

In an attempt to guesstimate how many of you fine folk will be attending, Drop me a PM with what you plan to bring (if anything!) There is no requirement to bring anything and numbers won't be limited, unless we hit 100 [emoji6] !!

*****This is an AOS members event and there will be a verification system in place on the day. Please have your login details available on the day *****

Mmm, I may try and get to this!

Bigman80
25-05-2018, 21:44
Mmm, I may try and get to this!You'd be very welcome!

Spider
26-05-2018, 09:22
Is there space for me please.

Bigman80
26-05-2018, 09:40
Is there space for me please.Defo

YNWaN
27-05-2018, 17:51
Yesterday I went to a meet of the Yorkshire HiFi Club and we compared eleven phonostages (including the LDA JFET and the Modwright mentioned above). We just played one after another and it still took six hours!

Jimbo
27-05-2018, 17:55
Yesterday I went to a meet of the Yorkshire HiFi Club and we compared eleven phonostages (including the LDA JFET and the Modwright mentioned above). We just played one after another and it still took six hours!

And what conclusions did you come too apart from they probably all sounded slightly different?:)

Bigman80
27-05-2018, 18:02
Yesterday I went to a meet of the Yorkshire HiFi Club and we compared eleven phonostages (including the LDA JFET and the Modwright mentioned above). We just played one after another and it still took six hours!Ha, it will be a long session but we've got all day. How did the paradise fare?

julesd68
27-05-2018, 19:28
The Paradise was epic in every way.

Floyddroid
27-05-2018, 19:42
The Paradise was epic in every way.

I can well believe it. I have heard Alan Towell's of this parish and it is simply stunning. Definitely something I would like to own.

Jimbo
27-05-2018, 19:47
I can well believe it. I have heard Alan Towell's of this parish and it is simply stunning. Definitely something I would like to own.

Ah I was wondering where I heard it, now I remember Steve. His monoblocks are not bad either!

YNWaN
27-05-2018, 20:06
Yes, the Paradise did stand out (as did the new Arkless stage based on similar design principles).

I’ve written the whole thing up on the Audioflat forum.

Bigman80
27-05-2018, 20:25
Yes, the Paradise did stand out (as did the new Arkless stage based on similar design principles).

I’ve written the whole thing up on the Audioflat forum.Oh, ok. I'll have a look. Willing to bring yours to our bakeoff?

sq225917
27-05-2018, 20:29
The Paradise didn't disappoint. A little tipped up at the top end due to cart loading but other than that it was in rare form. I think people liked it.

Macca
27-05-2018, 20:35
Yes, the Paradise did stand out (as did the new Arkless stage based on similar design principles).

I’ve written the whole thing up on the Audioflat forum.

Good review that Mark.

Here's a link http://www.audioflat.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=745

I'm thinking it might have been better to use 'speakers that were a bit less 'left field' in design? After what you said about the first few stages I was thinking there might be some system issue.

Bigman80
27-05-2018, 20:56
[emoji848] need a paradise at the bakeoff.

YNWaN
27-05-2018, 21:30
It’s too far for me I’m afraid Oliver - sorry.

Bigman80
27-05-2018, 21:34
It’s too far for me I’m afraid Oliver - sorry.Fair enough, Mark.

YNWaN
28-05-2018, 09:47
I'm thinking it might have been better to use 'speakers that were a bit less 'left field' in design? After what you said about the first few stages I was thinking there might be some system issue.

Well, I thought much the same when I first got there - the sound was very dry (short on atmosphere and ‘air’) and the whole range was slightly tilted up which rather exaggerated the dry aspect of the sound. To be honest, I wasn’t impressed by the sound being produced. However, as the day went on I became acclimatised, or perhaps the sound got better. At the end of the day the speakers can only play that which they are fed and what I do know now about these speakers is that they are incredibly ‘fast’ sounding and they certainly allowed the difference in the various stages to be heard clearly. I suppose it is hardly a surprise that budget phonostages feeding over a £100,000.00 of speakers and amps doesn’t sound that magical :). Putting aside the speakers, I was surprised how well the Garrard 301 and SME 3009 arm did as neither would be on my own list of preferred front end components.

Sorry for the thread drift Oliver.

Macca
28-05-2018, 09:52
Putting aside the speakers, I was surprised how well the Garrard 301 and SME 3009 arm did as neither would be on my own list of preferred front end components.

.

Yeah I hear you there. But the conditions were the same for all stages and that is the important thing.

YNWaN
28-05-2018, 10:00
Yes, absolutely. I would have preferred there to be a higher attainable ceiling level of performance though. Anyway, it’s academic as the differences between the stages was quite evident.

Floyddroid
28-05-2018, 19:34
Ah I was wondering where I heard it, now I remember Steve. His monoblocks are not bad either!

The monoblocks are a Les Wolstenholme design (Voyager) Alan's engineering and attention to detail make them and his Paradise very special indeed. Had i the skills and knowledge that Alan has I would be building a Paradise myself. I use Voyagers myself though Les built them for me as I am simply unqualified to attempt such a task.

JohnG
10-06-2018, 09:24
I am John, a new member to AoS.
I would like to attend this event, and if it is OK bring along a
Clones Audio PA-1.

Bigman80
10-06-2018, 09:36
I am John, a new member to AoS.
I would like to attend this event, and if it is OK bring along a
Clones Audio PA-1.Welcome John, thanks for joining and yes, you're more than welcome to attend!

Floyddroid
12-06-2018, 21:42
Coming along with Quin (Ken Wynn). Looking forwards to it

Bigman80
12-06-2018, 22:11
Coming along with Quin (Ken Wynn). Looking forwards to itBe great to meet you!

Elephantears
18-06-2018, 17:13
I'll be interested in the results of these comparisons, but what source are you using? Will it be a cartridge with a fairly standard 100 Ohm loading requirement that all the stages can easily be set for?

Bigman80
18-06-2018, 18:09
I'll be interested in the results of these comparisons, but what source are you using? Will it be a cartridge with a fairly standard 100 Ohm loading requirement that all the stages can easily be set for?It's will be a Kontrapunkt b which is happy at 100ohms. This is likely to be the default setting for all stages. There will be more about this in the writeup after the event.

Floyddroid
25-06-2018, 10:10
Be great to meet you!

I think from what i have read elsewhere you are one of the few ha ha. Coming as an observer and enthusiast i'm not bringing anything unless you will play one of my special needs records.

Bigman80
25-06-2018, 10:11
Lol, bring any lp you like, we need a good torture track [emoji23]
I think from what i have read elsewhere you are one of the few ha ha. Coming as an observer and enthusiast i'm not bringing anything unless you will play one of my special needs records.

Macca
25-06-2018, 11:05
Lol, bring any lp you like, we need a good torture track [emoji23]

You have no idea what you are letting yourself in for....

Bigman80
25-06-2018, 11:19
You have no idea what you are letting yourself in for....[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

We can always turn it off

Jimbo
25-06-2018, 11:21
Some Infected Mushroom should fit the bill!:)

Blackmass
25-06-2018, 11:41
Confirmed equipment list:

Qwin - Aqvox 2Ci Phono Stage
Firebottle - Firebottle Vivant
Bigman80 - Wizard Phonostage
Jimbo - Croft 25 Preamp with Phonostage
MCRU - LDA JFET Phonostage
Primalsea - WD Clone Phonostage
Ali Tait - Modwright Phonostage
Crackles - Trichord Dino II
Blackmass - Trilogy phonostage*
Lee Henley - Modified EAR phonostage
Ijrussel - Trilogy 907 phonostage*


We are still looking for the following:

Tom Evans Mastergroove
Paradise Phonostage
Aurorasound VIDA

Anything else you may have!


Hi Oliver,
May I ask why the asterisk's against both Trilogy phono stages?

Bigman80
25-06-2018, 11:45
Hi Oliver,
May I ask why the asterisk's against both Trilogy phono stages?You may,

I put asterisks there to remind me to confirm what model they were. As they are still there, it means I forgot lol.

Blackmass
25-06-2018, 11:49
You may,

I put asterisks there to remind me to confirm what model they were. As they are still there, it means I forgot lol.

Mines the 906.:)

Bigman80
25-06-2018, 11:50
Top stuff
Mines the 906.:)

ijrussell
25-06-2018, 18:04
Confirming that mine is a Trilogy 907.

Bigman80
25-06-2018, 18:43
Thanks guys, looking forward to your kits.

YNWaN
25-06-2018, 19:01
The Trilogy is a stage I haven’t heard, but would like to. I hope you guys have a really great time and I wish I could attend - I really enjoyed my last bake-off :).

Bigman80
25-06-2018, 19:17
The Trilogy is a stage I haven’t heard, but would like to. I hope you guys have a really great time and I wish I could attend - I really enjoyed my last bake-off :).Still looking for a Paradise!

Bigman80
30-06-2018, 10:22
Morning All,

With the bakeoff drawing ever closer, I thought It may be an idea to drop a few more details!

We have Tea & Coffee making facilities at the venue but it will be DIY. Tea bags and coffee will be provided as well as Milk but if you have any specific dietary requirements, please come prepared. PS, bring a mug, they only have tiny China tea cups!!!!

Power Cables to warm your phonostage up prior to its demo slot would be useful. We have lots of multiplugs etc but spare power cables are a bit thin on the ground. Please bring one with you if you can.

Demo tracks.......Still not 100% on the tracks we will use but we have narrowed it down. The track list will be provided on the day. If you have any suggestions PM me.

Starts at 10:00 08/08/18

Please have your AoS login details handy when you arrive for the registration process.

Floyddroid
01-07-2018, 08:31
Morning All,

With the bakeoff drawing ever closer, I thought It may be an idea to drop a few more details!

We have Tea & Coffee making facilities at the venue but it will be DIY. Tea bags and coffee will be provided as well as Milk but if you have any specific dietary requirements, please come prepared. PS, bring a mug, they only have tiny China tea cups!!!!

Power Cables to warm your phonostage up prior to its demo slot would be useful. We have lots of multiplugs etc but spare power cables are a bit thin on the ground. Please bring one with you if you can.

Demo tracks.......Still not 100% on the tracks we will use but we have narrowed it down. The track list will be provided on the day. If you have any suggestions PM me.

Starts at 10:00 08/08/18

Please have your AoS login details handy when you arrive for the registration process.

Why will i need my AOS log in details? Is this for AOS members only?:scratch:

Macca
01-07-2018, 08:48
Why will i need my AOS log in details? Is this for AOS members only?:scratch:

Yes, for AoS members only unless by prior arrangement.

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 09:11
Why will i need my AOS log in details? Is this for AOS members only?:scratch:It's a verification process thats been requested to ensure none of the internet's less "favourable" characters try to cause any issues.

As we're operating under the AoS banner, it seemed the most logical way of doing it.

You can bring a friend or family member with you, it's just that you're signing them in on your membership.

Floyddroid
01-07-2018, 09:25
It's a verification process thats been requested to ensure none of the internet's less "favourable" characters try to cause any issues.

As we're operating under the AoS banner, it seemed the most logical way of doing it.

You can bring a friend or family member with you, it's just that you're signing them in on your membership.

All very corporate don't you think?

andyrlb
01-07-2018, 09:41
I’d like to join you fine folk , mainly to meet you all in the flesh .
I’m not sure if I own anything good enough to bring to the party though ?
Yamaha NS1000M’s ?
Radford Auditoriums ?
Marantz Pm4




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Primalsea
01-07-2018, 09:45
All very corporate don't you think?

In an ideal world it would be...

It really wouldn't be a surprise if someone tried to impersonate a member in order to get entry for a wide range of reasons from stalking to theft.

Macca
01-07-2018, 10:05
I’d like to join you fine folk , mainly to meet you all in the flesh .
I’m not sure if I own anything good enough to bring to the party though ?
Yamaha NS1000M’s ?
Radford Auditoriums ?
Marantz Pm4



All more than good enough. If someone brings some decent speakers it will save me lugging mine down ;)


As for the corporatism, we made the same rule for MiBO. Like MiBO this is a free event, you can make a contribution to the room hire cost if you wish, it's up to you. There's no sponsorship or anything like that, this is just a meet-up for enthusiasts.

Macca
01-07-2018, 10:08
In an ideal world it would be...

It really wouldn't be a surprise if someone tried to impersonate a member in order to get entry for a wide range of reasons from stalking to theft.

It would be a surprise, it hasn't happened yet in years of doing these things.

struth
01-07-2018, 10:19
If nothing else it will deter anyone trying to come in off street and messing with stuff. Better safe than sorry, that's why invitations are given out at most do's

Macca
01-07-2018, 10:41
If nothing else it will deter anyone trying to come in off street and messing with stuff. Better safe than sorry, that's why invitations are given out at most do's

Pretty much, it's a lot of responsibility to organise these things and regrettably there are always a few weirdos or types with chips on their shoulders who could potentially decide to turn up just to try to ruin it; although that's never happened yet I don't see the value in not taking precautions.


If anyone wants to organise an event that is open to everyone to just walk in off the street then there's nothing stopping them, and they'd be welcome to promote it here.

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 10:58
You don't need to bring anything to attend!
I’d like to join you fine folk , mainly to meet you all in the flesh .
I’m not sure if I own anything good enough to bring to the party though ?
Yamaha NS1000M’s ?
Radford Auditoriums ?
Marantz Pm4




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mayebaza
01-07-2018, 18:43
Any room for a tweaked Vincent PH700?

andyrlb
01-07-2018, 18:45
You don't need to bring anything to attend!

Ok [emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Macca
01-07-2018, 18:48
Any room for a tweaked Vincent PH700?

Of course, be good to see you again.

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 18:50
Nice! Ive wanted to hear a Vincent
Of course, be good to see you again.

Floyddroid
01-07-2018, 19:23
Any room for a tweaked Vincent PH700?

How have you tweaked it Barrington? Very interested.

ff1d1l
01-07-2018, 21:18
Just seen this - I could make it over if there's still space. I have an interesting and rather good phonostage, a Russel Technologies, could also bring a pair of Urei 809 speakers (effectively JBL 4425s).

Macca
01-07-2018, 21:29
Yes of course, be good to see you again Niall.

We could use the Ureis for the phonostage test maybe?

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 21:29
Just seen this - I could make it over if there's still space. I have an interesting and rather good phonostage, a Russel Technologies, could also bring a pair of Urei 809 speakers (effectively JBL 4425s).There's space! Trust me, this hall is quite large lol.

Bring you wares!

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 21:30
Yes of course, be good to see you again Niall.

We could use the Ureis for the phonostage test maybe?Better than your speakers Macca?

A quick glance suggests they are certainly different?

ff1d1l
01-07-2018, 22:07
Better than your speakers Macca?

A quick glance suggests they are certainly different?

They're smaller than the Ureis I had at Kegworth (811As), hell, these are almost managable. They've got Radian diaphragms in the treble, so sound rather better than stock JBL. Better than JM labs? I don't know JM labs 926s but don't imagine they sound similar. The Ureis sound like JBLs , maybe a little smoother in the treble and with better imaging because they are dual concentric, but still that big sound. Best bet would be to try them then decide - be interesting for people to hear them though.

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 22:10
They're smaller than the Ureis I had at Kegworth (811As), hell, these are almost managable. They've got Radian diaphragms in the treble, so sound rather better than stock JBL. Better than JM labs? I don't know JM labs 926s but don't imagine they sound similar. The Ureis sound like JBLs , maybe a little smoother in the treble and with better imaging because they are dual concentric, but still that big sound. Best bet would be to try them then decide - be interesting for people to hear them though.I am looking forward to these!

ff1d1l
01-07-2018, 22:11
Yes of course, be good to see you again Niall.

We could use the Ureis for the phonostage test maybe?

Yes the midlands bakeoff wasn't it? Be good to catch up...

ff1d1l
01-07-2018, 22:13
I am looking forward to these!

I'll warn you they are magnificently ugly...

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 22:14
Lmao, it's about how they sound mate.
I'll warn you they are magnificently ugly...

ff1d1l
01-07-2018, 22:34
Lmao, it's about how they sound mate.

The sound is in inverse proportion to their beauty...

Bigman80
01-07-2018, 22:54
Thats almost frightening lol

Qwin
02-07-2018, 08:42
Which login details are required?

Stryder5
02-07-2018, 10:26
Which login details are required?

Your AoS Forum login

Qwin
02-07-2018, 11:11
Your AoS Forum login

I'd gathered that, what I am trying to ascertain is whether its just your user name, or if its also your Password?

Macca
02-07-2018, 11:18
There's no way to verify someone's password so I'm guessing that is not what Oli has in mind.

Qwin
02-07-2018, 11:38
There's no way to verify someone's password so I'm guessing that is not what Oli has in mind.

Yeh, that's what I thought (or hoping) Martin, I don't understand what is being asked for, as a username could just be taken off a random posting on the site.

Bit of clarification needed here.
Is it really necessary anyway, supposed to be a bit of fun.

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 12:18
Yeh, that's what I thought (or hoping) Martin, I don't understand what is being asked for, as a username could just be taken off a random posting on the site.

Bit of clarification needed here.
Is it really necessary anyway, supposed to be a bit of fun.You'll be logging into the forum via a laptop and logging blackout so you'll need your Username and Password

We don't want any randoms off the street turning up and blagging their way in. There will be a lot of gear on show and it's necessary to safeguard ourselves from this. The Venue sits right on a main road and is regularly used for local free events so we need some kind of filter at the door.

Sorry if that's a concern to anyone but it's a safeguard we feel is necessary.

Macca
02-07-2018, 12:25
I think that will only be necessary for anyone who's relatively new. If you are one of the regulars at these things, like Ken, (or pretty much most of the people who are coming), then there's no problem, we'll just wave you in.

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 12:38
I think that will only be necessary for anyone who's relatively new. If you are one of the regulars at these things, like Ken, (or pretty much most of the people who are coming), then there's no problem, we'll just wave you in.Of course, those we know will not be interrogated by militia before entry [emoji23]

Qwin
02-07-2018, 12:56
:thumbsup:

Marco
02-07-2018, 17:21
I think that will only be necessary for anyone who's relatively new. If you are one of the regulars at these things, like Ken, (or pretty much most of the people who are coming), then there's no problem, we'll just wave you in.

Exactly. These measures are only being taken to ensure that the event isn't gatecrashed by unwanted parties, particularly certain well-known trolls and banned ex-members. Although, in reality, they'd be too cowardly to show their (no doubt) nerdy faces, and far happier, as usual, spewing inane bile from behind the 'safety' of their keyboards [although not as safe as they might think]...!

Oh, and please note, anyone who is seen using a mobile phone (or any other device) to take a picture of someone, without their permission, will have it shoved up their arse!! Although some of you may rather enjoy that;)

However, do be warned that all picture-taking activity will be strictly monitored, and if anyone's picture appears on a forum somewhere, without having given their permission for that, then everyone attending the show, who's given their AoS username, and who isn't well-known at such events, will find themselves banned permanently from the forum.

We're operating a zero-tolerance policy on this one. Of course folks can take as many pics as they like of the GEAR demonstrated. We're simply ensuring that the event goes as smoothly as possible and that it's a fun and enjoyable day, for the right reasons, for all those attending! :cool:

Marco.

Qwin
02-07-2018, 18:34
Is this what things have come to! :(

It's not really in the right spirit for me, too many threats/restrictions, I'll give it a miss and chill.

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 18:58
Ok, let's not be hasty,

The event won't and can't be "Supervised" as I am sure we all know how to behave, I was just going to mention on the day to just make sure and pics are focussed on the gear and if any Members didn't want to be on photographs to just let us know.

We are a sensible bunch here and I'm sure we can manage this with ease.

A lot is being made of the sign in process but this is for the security of our equipment and to prevent any walk-ins due to the usual usage, as a community center.

Joe
02-07-2018, 18:59
'Paranoia strikes deep
Into your heart it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line the man comes
And takes you away'

Buffalo Springfield: For What It's Worth

karma67
02-07-2018, 19:45
hey oli,remember when ian and i tried to organise a small get together?
too many people with agendas getting involved,dont let this one go the same way.:cool:

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 19:49
hey oli,remember when ian and i tried to organise a small get together?
too many people with agendas getting involved,dont let this one go the same way.:cool:Hi Jamie,

Yes mate, I remember very well. This event isn't going by the wayside, I'll be there on my own if that's all that turn up lol.

Seriously, it's a bit of a mine field but as always, a lot is being made of, what I think are common sense. Were just going to have fun, compare some bit and not take ourselves too seriously.

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 19:49
'Paranoia strikes deep
Into your heart it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line the man comes
And takes you away'

Buffalo Springfield: For What It's WorthA bit like cholesterol 🤣

struth
02-07-2018, 20:02
Sure it will go well. No reason why it won't

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 20:05
Sure it will go well. No reason why it won'tDefo Grant. I'm gonna try and get in every picture 🤣🤣

Stryder5
02-07-2018, 20:08
Hi Jamie,

Yes mate, I remember very well. This event isn't going by the wayside, I'll be there on my own if that's all that turn up lol.

Seriously, it's a bit of a mine field but as always, a lot is being made of, what I think are common sense. Were just going to have fun, compare some bit and not take ourselves too seriously.

I'll join you Oli:)

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 20:10
Top man Gary. [emoji6]


I'll join you Oli:)

Qwin
02-07-2018, 21:13
Ok, after a bit of reassurance I'm back in the game, see you guys on Sunday. :)

Bigman80
02-07-2018, 21:31
Ok, after a bit of reassurance I'm back in the game, see you guys on Sunday. :)Good man.

Marco
02-07-2018, 22:19
Nice one, Ken. Glad you're still coming:)

Apologies for my earlier heavy-handedness! I just wanted to ensure that certain unwanted 'no-lifes' didn't spoil the day. I'm sure that Ollie will handle things impeccably in my absence.

Yup, unfortunately folks, due to holiday commitments, I won't be able to be come to the bake-off. Ollie already knew that before I posted my message earlier, so just thought I'd now make it 'official'. I'm sure it'll be an excellent day, and I look forward to seeing all the pics!:cool:

Marco.

STD305M
05-07-2018, 17:28
Hi Oliver

Looking forward to the event, be good to see you and Alan
Will be a great day for all :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bigman80
05-07-2018, 18:37
Hi Oliver

Looking forward to the event, be good to see you and Alan
Will be a great day for all [emoji106][emoji106]You too mate.

Looks like we will have lots of great stuff to listen to.

JohnG
05-07-2018, 18:40
After reading the conditions for attending, I have a friend who visits shows with me. He would like to attend with a Custom Built MM Vlve Phonostage as my guest, if his Sunday work commitment is cancelled on Friday.
I have told him I would enquire first before he brings any equipment.

Firebottle
05-07-2018, 19:21
John as I know you to be a most affable chap you are more than welcome to bring your friend and his valve phono stage along. Look forward to seeing you again.

Bigman80
05-07-2018, 19:55
John as I know you to be a most affable chap you are more than welcome to bring your friend and his valve phono stage along. Look forward to seeing you again.See you there John +1

ijrussell
05-07-2018, 20:36
After reading the conditions for attending, I have a friend who visits shows with me. He would like to attend with a Custom Built MM Vlve Phonostage as my guest, if his Sunday work commitment is cancelled on Friday.
I have told him I would enquire first before he brings any equipment.

Is anyone bringing a step-up transformer or similar?

Jimbo
05-07-2018, 20:40
I will be bringing a K&K Audio SUT which is suitable for cartridges with about 0.4-0.5mV output.

Bigman80
05-07-2018, 20:56
I will be bringing a K&K Audio SUT which is suitable for cartridges with about 0.4-0.5mV output.Good man, Jim. This way, at least there will be a bit of continuity.

Jimbo
05-07-2018, 21:00
Good man, Jim. This way, at least there will be a bit of continuity.

I can bring a battery Firebottle headamp as well but it's not as good as the SUT:)

Using the K&K SUT through my phono stage gives about the same gain level as I get running an MM cartridge through it.

Bigman80
05-07-2018, 21:01
The SUT should be sufficient mate.
I can bring a battery Firebottle headamp as well but it's not as good as the SUT:)

Using the K&K SUT through my phono stage gives about the same gain level as I get running an MM cartridge through it.

mayebaza
05-07-2018, 21:22
I will bring an Audio Innovations Series 1000 SUT

STD305M
05-07-2018, 21:24
I will bring along my upgraded Denon HA500

Bigman80
05-07-2018, 21:24
Ha, this is GREAT!!!!!!

Jimbo
05-07-2018, 21:33
I will bring along my upgraded Denon HA500

Nice Head amp Steve.

Qwin
06-07-2018, 14:37
So remind me folks, what cartridge/settings are we using, may as well dial them into my Phonostage in advance?

Bigman80
06-07-2018, 14:41
So remind me folks, what cartridge/settings are we using, may as well dial them into my Phonostage in advance?The prefered will be 100ohms as this seems to be standard-ish.

Kontrapunkt b will be in use.

Don't worry too much as there will probably be something outside of the standard!

Macca
06-07-2018, 14:43
.

Don't worry too much as there will probably be something outside of the standard!

Besides Alan's trousers, that is.

Bigman80
06-07-2018, 14:43
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Besides Alan's trousers, that is.

YNWaN
06-07-2018, 14:52
I was at the recent Cranage show and well, you see all sorts you know - I couldn’t help but notice a chap wandering around in some very ‘busy’ pantaloons. Well blow me if my friend Si didn’t accost said individual in the bar (whilst we were enjoying a short break) and proceed to chat with him. Once the garishly dressed individual had departed I asked Si who ‘on earth’ that was - well you can probably guess......

Bigman80
06-07-2018, 15:01
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
I was at the recent Cranage show and well, you see all sorts you know - I couldn’t help but notice a chap wandering around in some very ‘busy’ pantaloons. Well blow me if my friend Si didn’t accost said individual in the bar (whilst we were enjoying a short break) and proceed to chat with him. Once the garishly dressed individual had departed I asked Si who ‘on earth’ that was - well you can probably guess......

Firebottle
06-07-2018, 15:58
You should have said hello Mark :ner:

STD305M
06-07-2018, 16:25
Nice Head amp Steve.

Your dead right James :thumbsup::thumbsup:

YNWaN
06-07-2018, 17:12
You should have said hello Mark :ner:

I didn’t know who you were until you had left I’m afraid :(.

ff1d1l
06-07-2018, 20:44
One of these would be nice....don't suppose anyone.....?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUPER-RARE-Yamaha-Hx-10000-Pre-Amp-Centennial-Edition/332703389552?hash=item4d76aad770:g:mKYAAOSwpdBbNnW e

Bigman80
06-07-2018, 20:54
One of these would be nice....don't suppose anyone.....?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUPER-RARE-Yamaha-Hx-10000-Pre-Amp-Centennial-Edition/332703389552?hash=item4d76aad770:g:mKYAAOSwpdBbNnW eLol, unfortunately not. That would be a great listen.

brian2957
06-07-2018, 21:33
Have a great day tomorrow chaps :)

Macca
06-07-2018, 21:35
Have a great day tomorrow chaps :)

Thanks Brian but it's happening on Sunday, not tomorrow :)

brian2957
06-07-2018, 21:54
Oops...yet another 'senior ' moment Martin . Have a great day on Sunday chaps ;)

Bigman80
06-07-2018, 22:01
Will do Brian. Can't tempt you to have a drive down?
Oops...yet another 'senior ' moment Martin . Have a great day on Sunday chaps ;)

brian2957
07-07-2018, 07:34
Working I'm afraid Oliver . I really would have liked to have been there :(

Bigman80
07-07-2018, 11:33
Working I'm afraid Oliver . I really would have liked to have been there :(Not to worry Brian, if tomorrow is successful then we will probably do it again next year. Maybe speakers in the AM, free for all in the afternoon.

brian2957
07-07-2018, 11:42
Yup , I know these things take a bit of organizing Oliver , but they really are appreciated by all those who attend . Oh...and people come from miles around to attend them . I hope Sunday is a great success :)

JohnG
07-07-2018, 11:59
Looking forward to tomorrow, told my friend Stoyan all about the
" Paradise " Phonostage, did any one offer to bring theirs along ?

Bigman80
07-07-2018, 12:31
No John, unfortunately there haven't been any volunteers to bring one.


Looking forward to tomorrow, told my friend Stoyan all about the
" Paradise " Phonostage, did any one offer to bring theirs along ?

Primalsea
07-07-2018, 17:15
Going to have to bail on tomorrow unfortunately. Been travelling for a work sales meeting and the trip got extended.

Shame as I have only met a few AOS members, and that was around 9 years ago!

Also dug out an unmodified Tresham preamp which has a very quiet MC stage. Quite rare these days, might of been interesting to compare.

Bigman80
07-07-2018, 17:47
Going to have to bail on tomorrow unfortunately. Been travelling for a work sales meeting and the trip got extended.

Shame as I have only met a few AOS members, and that was around 9 years ago!

Also dug out an unmodified Tresham preamp which has a very quiet MC stage. Quite rare these days, might of been interesting to compare.That's a real shame, understandable though.

STD305M
07-07-2018, 19:49
Just arrived at my hotel just over the road from the bakeoff
Must say I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

Time for a beer or two :cool: :cool:

Bigman80
07-07-2018, 19:53
Just arrived at my hotel just over the road from the bakeoff
Must say I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

Time for a beer or two :cool: :cool:Good man Steve. See you there!

STD305M
07-07-2018, 19:57
Hi Oliver
It should be a great day, lot of new goodies to listen to

Bigman80
07-07-2018, 20:22
Hi Oliver
It should be a great day, lot of new goodies to listen toDefinitely!

Should be entertaining at least.

Primalsea
07-07-2018, 20:48
Plenty of photos please, if possible. It will be really nice to see the setup and find out what people’s thoughts were on the phono stages being evaluated.

ijrussell
07-07-2018, 20:58
Where is the best place to park?

Jimbo
07-07-2018, 21:05
Where is the best place to park?

Free parking right outside in front of the Littleton Arms Hotel next to the bowling green.

ff1d1l
07-07-2018, 22:40
Just packed the car for an early start. In the end as well as the Ureis and RT phono I threw in the largish Luxkit z504, my homebrew silver traffo pre and some Linn Sara stands all of which will serve to support and or aspirate the Ureis in the unlikely event of nobody else bringing nowt.
Zzzz's now - see you all tomorrow!

YNWaN
08-07-2018, 10:36
I hope you have a great day guys and I’m sure all with go very well - I’m looking forward already to the pics and the opinions :).

Floyddroid
08-07-2018, 11:28
Have a brilliant day guys.

Macca
08-07-2018, 19:08
Just got back and I'm totally shagged out but my god what a good day that was. I think we did about 10 or 12 phono stages and the standard was ridiculously high. Also got a listen to the Urei studio monitors which I've always wanted to hear and they didn't disappoint. Dynamics like a PA system but all the detail there as well.

Stryder5
08-07-2018, 19:15
I didn't stay all day, enjoyed what I heard.

Nice to put faces to names, enjoyed meeting everyone.

Thanks to the team that made this possible.

Gary

walpurgis
08-07-2018, 19:16
Also got a listen to the Urei studio monitors which I've always wanted to hear and they didn't disappoint. Dynamics like a PA system but all the detail there as well.

Did they have the blue tweeters?

Firebottle
08-07-2018, 19:24
Fantastic day today chaps, runners riders and results tomorrow :D

Lee Henley
08-07-2018, 19:31
Most enjoyable day, sorry I couldn’t stay till then end, there were some nice phono stages heard today and very nice to put some faces to names, really liked your SP10 Ollie, very very nice mate

Macca
08-07-2018, 20:03
Did they have the blue tweeters?

Yes they did.

Crackles
08-07-2018, 20:06
Had a great day and was really good to meet a few forum members. Thanks Oliver for organising it, I think everyone there was hugely impressed with the whole thing.

Can't believe Barrington's stage only cost £500. The one that really impressed me for the money though was the German Digna. Amazing sound for such a tiny thing.

Looking forward to the pics if they get posted up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 20:23
Wow, what a day!

Some really great sounds, tracks and people. That's what islts all about

Loved Macca's Krell, and the Focal speakers (I have first dibs!!!)

I'm really pleased with the SP10 MK2. The AT1010 was superb with the Kontrapunkt b too. Sterling performance. Thanks for the comments on it guys.

Really pleased with the DIY Wizard phonostage's performance too. My faves were the "VAS" and the "Aqvox". If I was spending money though, the "VAS" was supremely good to my ears. Best part was the Vincent and the Dibna making an absolute mockery of their price tags. Outstanding value and a performance that belonged and deserved respect. Great find guys.

Not a bad unit in show. Very respectable sound all day and done in the right spirit.

Just a quick thanks to all who attended and especially those you came a long way.

A thoroughly good day.

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 20:25
Most enjoyable day, sorry I couldn’t stay till then end, there were some nice phono stages heard today and very nice to put some faces to names, really liked your SP10 Ollie, very very nice mateCheers Lee, I'll put you in touch with the main man.

Jimbo
08-07-2018, 20:47
Thanks for organising a great bake off Oli and nice to meet some new chaps and some old faces. As with all these events there is interesting stuff to listen too and much of the equipment was new to me.

The day was a game of two halves with the morning taken up with Solid State phono stages and the afternoon valve and valve/hybrid phono stages. In the morning we listened to :

Clones Audio PA1
Russell Technologies phono stage
Trilogy 907
Aquvox
Trichord Dino

In the afternoon valves:

EAR 634
Valve wizard
Digna
Vincent
VAS
Croft
Vivant

Sorry if I missed any and I will upload pics when I get chance.

Outstanding amplifier in the SS group was the Aquvox, almost valve like in sound and lovely open wide soundstage.

Outstanding valve amp was the VAS from Bulgaria I believe, not to be confused with VAS (USA). Stunning.

These were just my impressions. None of the phono stages were bad at all but in general the valve phono stages showed a fairly clean pair of heels to the SS in terms of soundstage and natural open dynamics.

The comparison was a great way of showing up the strengths and weaknesses of all the phono stages and it was noted that the choice of tracks could influence how these differences were perceived.

I am sure others will give a more detailed account and maybe some sort of scoring but I was left only with a strong impression of the two outstanding phono stages I mentioned in each group.

Insightful and very enjoyable day and thanks to all for attending especially those who had driven a long way.

STD305M
08-07-2018, 20:48
Hi guys
Thoroughly enjoyed the bakeoff
It was my first and i was not disappointed.

The top phono stage for me was the VAS, by quite some margin.

For those on a more limited budget the Vincent 2 box phono stage was great !!!

Fantastic atmosphere and it was great to meet quite a few
members.
Thanks Oliver, and Alan who didn't disappoint with his multi coloured trousers

Steve...

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 20:58
Thanks Jim, Steve.

Yes the Aqvox just stole my decision on the SS designs. Not much in it between that and the Russel tech thing which I really liked too.

The Valve stages is where the day really kicked in for me and the VAS was a killer. So so good.

Macca
08-07-2018, 21:16
Of the phono stages I'll say now my favourite was the AQvox that Ken brought along. The Russel Technologies was a close second. I preferred those to any of the valve stages. However we were using Oliver's SP10 for spinning the records and he 's really got that spot on. With zero issues at the front end I thought we were getting a great sound with every single phono stage, really clean and sweet and easy to listen to regardless of what speaker or amps were in use. (There was some swapping about after we finished the 'testing').


The Trichord Dino was impressive too, I think that is quite a bit cheaper than the AQvox and the Russell and it wasn't giving much away to them. I've seen the Dino talked about and recommended on forums for years, now I know why.


Barrington's Valve stage, the Vincent, at £500 just a crazy bargain. gave little away to the big boys. Being Barrington he's tweaked it very slightly so it wasn't quite stock. Still worth a look if you want a new valve phono and don't want to get too spendy.


Also like the dinky little German stage that looked a bit like a mini ORAC with valves poking out, another one that gave a good run for the money.


The VAS stage is built by a bloke on the DIY forum who will knock it up to your spec, you want fancy resistors or whatever, you can have them, sliding scale of price. Separate power supply. Serious performer that one. Lots of weight behind the sound that none of the others quite had except for the Croft Micro 25R with a SUT. There was double bass in one track and both of these stages got it spot on for weight and tone.

The Firebottle Vivant, is a hybrid stage, as is the Wizard, and they were pretty close in presentation, a little smoother than the all valve stages I thought although there was very little in it.

There was an EAR phonstage, can't recall which model, that was the only one I thought 'No, I wouldn't live with that.' I didn't know the make of it until after we finished listening but I've not been keen on any of the EAR kit I've heard, it just strays too far from the sort of presentation I like. Nothing wrong with the quality of it.


There might be a couple I've left out there. There was an awful lot of them.

Great venue as you'll see from the pics, basically the Walmington on Sea village hall off of 'Dad's Army'. I was a bit concerned that a 50w amp and some modest 3 way floorstanders would fill such a massive space but as it turned out you could have had a disco, there was no problem getting to tremendous levels and peaks totally cleanly. The amp was too hot to touch by the end, though.

With the Urei Monitors on it was even better. Amazing dynamics and fast, too. They had John Lee Hooker on while I was out the back having a smoke, it sounded like he was doing a recording session in there.


One issue might be that I was, apparently due to some necessity I was unaware of, exposed to a lot of London Grammar. I think I'll get over it, given some space and time.


Anyway, enough of my yakkin'. Thanks to everyone for turning up and bringing their kit and thanks to Oliver for organising it.

ijrussell
08-07-2018, 21:30
Thanks to Oliver and Alan for arranging and hosting. It was a great opportunity to meet up with other like-minded folks and listen to a wide range of phono stages. Sorry I had to leave early but some things are more important than hifi!

I now understand why some of the guys I know who bought Trilogy 907s after hearing mine sold them on fairly quickly - they do not work with direct drive turntables. Today was an important reminder of how important synergy is.

I heard pleasant sounds all day but nothing that really made me go WOW!! I don't think that the room helped; it was a bit echoey but was better with more bodies.

pankon
08-07-2018, 21:34
...
The VAS stage is built by a bloke on the DIY forum who will knock it up to your spec, you want fancy resistors or whatever, you can have them, sliding scale of price. Separate power supply. Serious performer that one. Lots of weight behind the sound that none of the others quite had except for the Croft Micro 25R with a SUT. There was double bass in one track and both of these stages got it spot on for weight and tone...


Martin, do you by any chance remember what SUT the Croft phono stage was paired with?

Furthermore, any clue about the VAS phono stage? Order of magnitude? Was it only MC or MM/MC?

Glad that you all enjoyed the bake-off!

Cheers,
Panos

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 21:36
"One issue might be that I was, apparently due to some necessity I was unaware of, exposed to a lot of London Grammar. I think I'll get over it, given some space and time."

[emoji23][emoji23] Yes, a bit of motorhead on prescription should fix it.

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 21:37
Martin, do you by any chance remember what SUT the Croft phono stage was paired with?

Furthermore, any clue about the VAS phono stage? Order of magnitude? Was it only MC or MM/MC?

Glad that you all enjoyed the bake-off!

Cheers,
PanosFirst paired with the K&K SUT then a Denon HA500 then Audio innovatios SUT. The last combo being my favourite.

MM only that one. As specced by the owner.

hensa
08-07-2018, 21:42
This sounds like it was a fantastic day! well done to all involved in putting it together!

Out of interest, was the AQVOX phono run through the current amplifying balanced inputs or the RCA inputs? I use the CEC phono stage which had the the samje designer and there is quite a dramatic improvement in soundstage dimensionality when using the balanced inputs as opposed to the single-ended inputs.

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 21:43
This sounds like it was a fantastic day! well done to all involved in putting it together!

Out of interest, was the AQVOX phono run through the current amplifying balanced inputs or the RCA inputs? I use the CEC phono stage which had the the samje designer and there is quite a dramatic improvement in soundstage dimensionality when using the balanced inputs as opposed to the single-ended inputs.It was through the RCA as we didn't have capacity to use this option with every phonostage.

hensa
08-07-2018, 21:57
It was through the RCA as we didn't have capacity to use this option with every phonostage.

Thanks for the clarification. Its performance is even more creditable in that case! Well done again for organising such a great event.

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 21:59
Thanks!!

Yes it's performance was excellent and as Qwin stated, it's better in balanced mode so it really is a bit of a gem. All be it an expensive one!

It won me over during the Mozart tracks we played, I really felt it was possible to hear the room in which they were playing. Excellent stuff.
Thanks for the clarification. Its performance is even more creditable in that case! Well done again for organising such a great event.

ff1d1l
08-07-2018, 22:55
Back now, recovering!
Had a great day, great company, great gear, thanks to all who made it so.
More tomorrow.

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 22:56
Ok all, here's how I heard it. I'm not sure if the "Votes" will back me up but my ears, my opinion.

Left in running order.

Morning Solid-state phonostages:

5th - Clones Audio PA1 (£990). As far as SS phonostages go, I felt this one was pretty acceptable. Not really wide, deep or 3D but tone was good with good detail and very musical.

2nd - Russell Technologies phono stage (£3000 suggested). This isn't available for purchase as it's a prototype. Great phonostage and my favourite SS stage UNTILL we got to Mozart. Lost out on that final bit of micro detail. But that's all. Excellent phonostage.

3rd - Trilogy 907 (£8/900). I liked this one in terms of musicality but that was about it really, i didn't get taken away by it but felt for SS is was good. The owner has suggested this is due to the DD turntable and the Trilogy not getting synergy. I don't doubt him.

1st - Aquvox (£1700). Well, this one was a bit of a creeper. I wasn't sure at first but the more I listened, the more it's revealing nature got to me. The Orchestra in the Mozart tracks really came into space and the room they recorded in was evident. Placement of musicians was pinpoint. I prefered the Russell Technologies one up untill the Cellos tuned up and the strings resonance wine me over. A close fought battle but a worthy winner.

4th - Trichord Dino (£700). The top end let this one down. Against the better SS phonostages, there was a bit of a "sat on" feel. It also sounded a bit heavy to me due to this.

For my money?

The Solid-state phonostages all share tendancies to harden up at higher frequencies IMO and taking that into account, if I HAD to buy a SS one, I'd buy the Russell Technologies. It had a smoother presentation and the detail was more than enough to be very happy. I suspect better Opamps in the RT would even things out between the Aqvox and itself.

Afternoon: Valves,

5TH - EAR 834 (£800 typical used price) - atypical EAR phonostage, a bit heavy, a bit slow sounding but quite enjoyable. Didn't have the soundstage to compare to the better phonostages. Quality of sound was fine but presentation wasn't to my taste.

2nd - DIY Valve wizard (£5/600 suggested build price)/Croft (£500)/Vivant(£1200) - These three completely split the room. The Wizard was prefered to the 3/4/5th place stages and it was 50/50 between the Wizard and Vivant. The Croft then split the room again so I'll have to wait for the Votes to be counted to see what officially happened here. The Croft managed this lofty status whilst being used with a K&K SUT and my suspicion is that a better SUT/HA would see this reign in second spot alone. The soundstage and channel separation from the croft was as good as the VAS and tonally, the Croft was nearer the VAS than the Wizard or Vivant.
The Wizard and Vivant both share the same attributes of sounding wide open and having a large soundstage. For me, the Wizard has a slightly more open midrange and better bass whilst the Vivant sounded to have a slightly bigger soundstage. In all honesty, they are borne with ideas from the same mind so any differences is just nit picking. The room couldn't split them and neither could I.

4TH - Digna. (£550(ish) This little box was outstanding. The level of sound reproduction was a bit of a shock and at no point sounded outclassed. Didn't have the finesse of the better phonostages and did harden up at times BUT it hadn't been run in and I expect this to improve over time.

3rd - Vincent PH700 (£700) The real surprise package of the day. Sweet, mids with airy treble. Wide soundstage and lots of depth. Incredibly good and at £500 it's a must buy for any enthusiastic vinyl owner on a budget. Lost out a bit to the others on that last Nth of a degree but goddam, it was good.

1st - VAS (£1600)

The VAS (Bulgarian origin) was a supremely good phonostage and my absolute favourite of the day. This is a serious phonostage. £1600 says so too. It had separation, soundstage, depth, width, height and the vocals, oh man! they were beautiful. This one stole my heart and when it got played via an Audio Innovations SUT, well, John Lee Hooker was recording live in front of me. Boom Boom Boom Boom.......

MM only, this is a special phonostage. I want one. Very very special.

For my money?

It's such a shame that the VAS was/is MM only, because that's the only reason I'm not selling all of my surplus gear to buy one. I hate the idea of messing around with SUTS/HA to get it to work well with the Kontrapunkt b. The difference between this and the Croft were closer than one would expect for the money but ultimately the VAS just has a bit more to offer. MM only is a problem for me. If it wasnt, I'd already have emailed an enquiry.

A class leader? I don't know but definitely stunning.

Voting results CONFIRMED

A few corrections/additions marked by *

Voting results.

Clones PA1 v Russel Technologies - Unanimous vote to Russel Technologies.

Trilogy 907 v Russel Technologies - 12 votes to Russel Technologies.

Aqvox 2Ci v Russel Technologies - 7 votes to Aqvox 2Ci

Trichord Dino v Aqvox 2Ci - 1 vote to the Trichord Dino.

__________

Ear 834 v Wizard DIY (hybrid) - 10 votes to the Wizard.

Digna by Mr Nixie (hybrid) v Wizard - 2 votes to Digna, 8 votes to Wizard.

Vincent PHO-700ps (hybrid) v Wizard - 5 votes to Vincent, 7 votes to Wizard.

Firebottle Vivant (hybrid) v Wizard

*4* votes to Vivant, *3* votes to Wizard. Two votes were taken due to the vocal abstinence to vote by attendees who couldn't choose between the two. This was the actual result

Croft 25R (K&K SUT) (RIAA version) v Vivant 4 votes each.

*More abstinence from voting due to the closeness in the qualities*.

Croft 25R (K&K SUT) v VAS (K&K SUT) - 2 votes to the Croft, 11 votes to the VAS.

A little later with dwindled numbers of attendees:

Vivant v Wizard No votes cast, too close to call.

Bigman80
08-07-2018, 22:57
Back now, recovering!
Had a great day, great company, great gear, thanks to all who made it so.
More tomorrow.Glad you're home safe mate. Good to meet you and thanks for bringing your wares. The Luxman was great. The Urei's were an interesting listen too.

pankon
09-07-2018, 08:07
Gentlemen,

although some of us have not had the chance and pleasure of being physically present at the phono stage bake-off, nevertheless we are reading your comments with great interest.

Thanks a lot!

Cheers,
Panos

ff1d1l
09-07-2018, 08:28
As with the NEBO bakeoff, and unsurprisingly given that it was billed as a phonostage bakeoff this was almost exclusively a vinyl event - there was a brief innings of a broadcast Techie SL1200 cd player at the lunchtime standown, but aside from that it was vinyl, vinyl all the way.

Which was great, as I listen mostly to digital these days for various reasons , and I was reminded just how devastatingly good a micro rock trundling round in a micro groove can sound. Dependent of course on how accurately the trundlings are caught, amplified and translated into sound.

Before getting down to the serious business, it was great chatting with new and old faces.

It was a game of two halves, pre lunch solid state, with the thermionic gods then worshiped all afternoon.

On the days showing, you would have to come away with the impression that valve is an easier technology to implement. My take is that the best of the mornings solid state (Aqvox, Russel) were equaled or easily surpassed by most of the afternoons offerings.

Several times in the afternoon I felt unable to vote as the sound was so good, and differences were down to swings/roundabouts.
With some revisiting my overall preference - the one I'd have taken home given the chance - was the Croft with the SUT.
But this was a just maybe front runner based on my particular love, image focus, which it just edged for me - but that could just have been where I'm sitting.

The front runners in whose pack the Croft ran were, in my pretty arbitrary reverse order, the VAS, the Wizard, the Vincent, the Digna, all of which were superb, and really did all anyone could reasonably want.

We also managed some great swap ins over the day, culminating in the system at the end which surely would be a contender for one of the most ecclectic being listened to in the uk at that moment. A Lenco in original plinth with original arm sporting a Lyra(!) out into the Aquvox, to passive silver traffo pre, to Firebottle's Dan Dare OTL power amp out to Ureis. Thanks for the Urei and Luxkit love, guys - I love this under the radar vintage gear getting the opportunity to show what it can do!

Memorable sounds? The whole second side of the Roger Waters q sound LP, the final cut was just excellent. I'd say a must have slab of vinyl if you want to hear what your system can do.

Addendum

Posted this before finishing it, had to go out to the docs. Lest we forget, some lovely and droolable gear besides the phono stages - Bigmans SP10 plus panzerholz plinth, Macca's Krell and J M Labs, Firebottles many excellent builds, of which my favourite was the Dan Dare OTL which sounded as lovely as it looked (and I loved the aesthetic).

Thanks to Oli & Alan for organising - for everything to flow and go as well seemingly effortlessly there must have been much work and sleight of hand behind the scenes, so a big thank you again.

STD305M
09-07-2018, 08:29
Hi Oliver

I'm finally home,

Great day for all !!!!
A huge thank you for a great day full of some excellent kit,
I Was seriously impressed with the turntable and its perfect set up and just as impressed with the Krell power amp, by the end of the day you could fry an egg on it but it was not fazed by anything, just kept on pumping out the tunes, some of them very loud indeed.

It was a great day for all who attended

Very well done Oliver and Alan

Steve...

walpurgis
09-07-2018, 08:43
Sounds like everybody had a great time! :)

I wonder how things would have stacked up if the valve units had been tried first and the solid state afterwards? You know how it is when listening to various equipment over an extended period. Impressions change.

struth
09-07-2018, 09:01
glad u all enjoyed it. just as well i didnt come with mine :lol:

Primalsea
09-07-2018, 09:20
Glad to hear that the day went well and a great summary of the day Oli.

Firebottle
09-07-2018, 09:21
A brilliant day. I was expecting a larger turn out but 14 were in attendance, with plenty of kit.
Ali Tait sent apologies for not being able to make it which was a shame as I was looking forward to hearing a Modwright phono stage.

Many thanks to Martin for the power amp and speaker loan and to Oli for the front end. The kit line up was:

SP10 TT >Kontrapunkt B cart > PHONO on test > Firebottle KIN as line preamp > Krell KSA50S power amp > JMlabs 926 speakers.

It was quite a big hall but the Krell had no problem giving volume a plenty.

The vibe was extremely relaxed and friendly, with a palpable excitement from some at least for what was to come.
The bake off proper was conducted on a knock out approach as there were a lot to get through.
Oli has listed correctly with 5 SS stages and 7 valve stages, the valve category included hybrid stages.
Cartridge loading was scrupulously followed at 100 ohms for every stage, via switches or loading plugs.

Voting results.
A vote was cast when a preference was felt, so the nuber of votes per showdown vary.

Clones PA1 v Russel Technologies Unanimous vote to Russel Technologies.

Trilogy 907 v Russel Technologies 12 votes to Russel Technologies.

Aqvox 2Ci v Russel Technologies 7 votes to Aqvox 2Ci

Trichord Dino v Aqvox 2Ci 1 vote to the Trichord Dino.
__________

Ear 834 v Wizard DIY (hybrid) 10 votes to the Wizard.

Digna by Mr Nixie (hybrid) v Wizard 2 votes to Digna, 8 votes to Wizard.

Vincent PHO-700ps (hybrid) v Wizard 5 votes to Vincent, 7 votes to Wizard.

Firebottle Vivant (hybrid) v Wizard 5 votes to Vivant, 2 votes to Wizard.

Croft 25R (K&K SUT) v Vivant 4 votes each.

Croft 25R (K&K SUT) v VAS (K&K SUT) 2 votes to the Croft, 11 votes to the VAS.


A little later with dwindled numbers of attendees:

Vivant v Wizard No votes cast, too close to call.


The testing was performed with a common track - Paul Simon 'Under African Skies' from Graceland, followed by an owners choice of track. The volume level did seem to creep up on some of the owners choices, but all to good effect.
I agree that the voting was probably swayed a little by choice of track, also there was a little bit of phono stage symmetry with choice of track.
__________________

Later combinations tried but without any voting included:

Vincent 700ps with the Audio Innovations series 1000 SUT. This was exceedingly good given the cost of the Vincent.

VAS with Denon HA500 head amp.

VAS with AI series 1000 SUT.

A change of amplification and speakers was then undertaken thanks to kit brought along by Nial (ff1d1l).

Same TT > 3 phonos as below > ff1d1l home brew preamp > Luxman Z504 power > Urei 809 speakers.

Phonos tested were Vivant, Russel technologies and Aqvox 2Ci.

To round off kit swapping my GL75 TT fitted with a Lyra Clavis cart was plumbed in, followed finally by substituting my little 6W OTL power amp, to very good responses.


A big thank you to Nial from me for lugging his kit along and to everyone else for attending.

Personal feelings were the Croft and Trichord were a bit heavy sounding, almost certainly due to differences in EQ that isn't to my choice. I think Oli has also quoted the Croft price somewhat low.

My best in show? The Russel technologies was very impressive with the Aqvox nudging it into 2nd. I'm convinced the Aqvox using its balanced current input would be superb.
Valves: I am completely biased but the detail and spacious image of my Vivant came out top for me.
The VAS was really really good, with premium parts included to make it that way, however I feel the use of ECC83 valves (in any stage) robs some of the drive to the music. I much prefer more current flow in stages.

Conclusions.
What a great crowd!

There is some seriously good kit out there, with some bargains to be had if you watch and wait.

You have to have a valve in the stage ...............

STD305M
09-07-2018, 09:29
Hi Alan

Having been given the chance to listen to SS and Valve together i would definitely agree that having Valve in the stage is a must!!!!

Not sure how Ill do that just yet but I'm sure you will guide me in the right direction. Plus 1 For VALVE

Steve...

pankon
09-07-2018, 09:45
Please, allow me to provide the following information with respect to Croft's phono stages. There are three individual models, namely:

1) Croft RIAA --> 500£
2) Croft RIAA R (with regulated power supply) --> 1000£
3) Croft RIAA RS (with regulated power supply in an external box and better components) --> 2000£

It would be great if someone could clarify whether the Croft phono stage, that participated in the bake-off, was the RIAA or RIAA R.

Cheers,
Panos

Firebottle
09-07-2018, 09:50
Thanks Panos, it was the 25R.

pankon
09-07-2018, 09:59
Thanks Panos, it was the 25R.

Alan,

Sorry to come back on this issue, but was it the Croft Micro 25R (i.e. pre-amp with built-in phono stage) or the RIAA R (i.e. standalone phono stage)?

Thanks
Panos

Firebottle
09-07-2018, 10:03
25R preamp, but output from the line out not the main output.

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 10:04
Jimbo said the phonostage in his Croft was the same as the standard RIAA that Glenn sells for £500.
Alan,

Sorry to come back on this issue, but was it the Croft Micro 25R (i.e. pre-amp with built-in phono stage) or the RIAA R (i.e. standalone phono stage)?

Thanks
Panos

pankon
09-07-2018, 10:14
25R preamp, but output from the line out not the main output.


Perhaps you are aware, but Croft components are phase-inverting, which means that ideally you should switch the line-out cables (red --> black and black -->red) as inputs to the power amp (in case that is not a Croft power amp, or not a phase-inverting as well). It does not change the sound dramatically, but it may give you deeper and more defined bass. Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Panos

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 10:28
A few corrections/additions marked by *

Voting results.

A vote was cast when a preference was felt, so the nuber of votes per showdown vary.

Clones PA1 v Russel Technologies Unanimous vote to Russel Technologies.

Trilogy 907 v Russel Technologies 12 votes to Russel Technologies.

Aqvox 2Ci v Russel Technologies 7 votes to Aqvox 2Ci

Trichord Dino v Aqvox 2Ci 1 vote to the Trichord Dino.

__________

Ear 834 v Wizard DIY (hybrid) 10 votes to the Wizard.

Digna by Mr Nixie (hybrid) v Wizard 2 votes to Digna, 8 votes to Wizard.

Vincent PHO-700ps (hybrid) v Wizard 5 votes to Vincent, 7 votes to Wizard.

Firebottle Vivant (hybrid) v Wizard

*4* votes to Vivant, *3* votes to Wizard. Two votes were taken due to the vocal abstinence to vote by attendees who couldn't choose between the two. This was the actual result

Croft 25R (K&K SUT) (RIAA version) v Vivant 4 votes each.
*More abstinence from voting due to the closeness in the qualities*.

Croft 25R (K&K SUT) v VAS (K&K SUT) 2 votes to the Croft, 11 votes to the VAS.

A little later with dwindled numbers of attendees:

Vivant v Wizard No votes cast, too close to call.

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 11:16
Just to clear a few things up.

On the day we used a Croft 25R but only the phono stage from the lineout not the main output.. This gave us the most basic phono stage Glenn builds but it is not as good as the RiAA R stand alone phono stage which has a more complex valve arrangement using 3 instead of the simple implementation of two which is found in the 25R. So the RIAA should sound even better and the RIAA R and RIAA RS even more so.

I must admit in the heat of the moment ( and it was a very hot day!:)) I forgot to invert the phase so use the sound we heard was compromised as I know how much this can effect the Crofts performance. I should have picked this up but using an unfamiliar system I forgot. So the results may have been different if this had been implemented?

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 11:28
Jimbo said the phonostage in his Croft was the same as the standard RIAA that Glenn sells for £500.

It is similar to the RIAA phono stage. . The valve stage you heard is his most basic, simple valve phono stage. The RIAA is slightly more complex and then there are the regulated and two box regulated and separate PSU version. Sorry for the confusion. Using the Croft phono stage out of the 25R was probably not the best way of demonstrating the Croft phono stage especially via a SUT.
Ideally the £500 RIAA stand alone phono stage would have been more suitable but we used what we had and even then i forgot to invert the phase.

Next time we will have to try and get a Croft RIAA or best still RIAA RS!

pankon
09-07-2018, 11:35
James,

I believe your clarifications are spot on!

Just as an aside information, when I asked Glenn to upgrade my Micro 25R preamp to a Micro 25RS line-only, I wondered whether he could 'transplant' the built-in phono stage to create a Croft RIAA, RIAA R or RIAA RS. Glenn responded that he would not be able to do much with the built-in phono stage, as his RIAA phono stages are of a different (more sophisticated) design.

In that context, perhaps the Croft 25R phono stage is not the same with a RIAA or RIAA R, apart from -perhaps- just having a Croft house sound.


Just to clear a few things up.

On the day we used a Croft 25R but only the phono stage from the lineout not the main output.. This gave us the most basic phono stage Glenn builds but it is not as good ass the RiAA stand alone phono stage which has a more complex valve arrangement using 3 instead of the simple implementation of two which is found in the 25R. So the RIAA should sound even better and the RIAA R and RIAA RS even more so.

I must admit in the heat of the moment ( and it was a very hot day!:)) I forgot to invert the phase so use the sound we heard was compromised as I know how much this can effect the Crofts performance. I should have picked this up but using an unfamiliar system I forgot. So the results may have been different if this had been implemented?

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 11:38
Well, if the Croft should have been inverted it probably would have been better. I think we may have inadvertently hindered the Croft. Also if we had of used the Audio Innovations SUT, I think that would have helped massively.
It is similar but not the same as the RIAA phono stage. Glenn uses a third valve which I believe lowers inductance. The valve stage you heard is his most basic, simple valve phono stage. The RIAA is slightly more complex and then there are the regulated and two box regulated and separate PSU version. Sorry for the confusion. Using the Croft phono stage out of the 25R was probably not the best way of demonstrating the Croft phono stage especially via a SUT.
Ideally the £500 RIAA stand alone phono stage would have been more suitable but we used what we had and even then i forgot to invert the phase.

Next time we will have to try and get a Croft RIAA or best still RIAA RS!

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 11:45
James,

I believe your clarifications are spot on!

Just as an aside information, when I asked Glenn to upgrade my Micro 25R preamp to a Micro 25RS line-only, I wondered whether he could 'transplant' the built-in phono stage to create a Croft RIAA, RIAA R or RIAA RS. Glenn responded that he would not be able to do much with the built-in phono stage, as his RIAA phono stages are of a different (more sophisticated) design.

In that context, perhaps the Croft 25R phono stage is not the same with a RIAA or RIAA R, apart from -perhaps- just having a Croft house sound.

I think you are right Panos, the 25R phono stage does have the Croft sound but is more simple than the RIAA phono stages. i have asked the question of Glenn too and there is not enough room to put the RIAA phono stage in the 25R.

I expect the RIAA R and RS to sound significantly better! and they are where I will be heading in the future.:)

On the day of the bake off the basic Croft phono stage sounded great even amongst very good company.

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 11:48
Well, if the Croft should have been inverted it probably would have been better. I think we may have inadvertently hindered the Croft. Also if we had of used the Audio Innovations SUT, I think that would have helped massively.

Yes mate, I accidentally knobbled it!:) I forgot about the phase inversion which affects the bass considerably. It may account for why you might have though it sounded better at my place, I always forget the phase when using other amps as it is not an issue when using a Croft power amp.

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 11:49
Yes mate, I accidentally knobbled it!:) I forgot about the phase inversion which affects the bass considerably.A shame that, the Croft is a favourite of mine and if I could just plug the Kontrapunkt b into one, I'd have one here.

Macca
09-07-2018, 11:52
Yes mate, I accidentally knobbled it!:) I forgot about the phase inversion which affects the bass considerably.

Are we talking about absolute phase? That's very hard to detect especially with a multi-tracked recording where different parts may not have the same absolute phase to begin with.

I thought the Croft with SUT pretty good, certainly not outclassed and the bass performance was fine.

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 11:53
Maybe we should run the bake off again!:lol:

pankon
09-07-2018, 12:00
Hi James,

I am also in search of a new phono stage. It would have been great to put a 'real' Croft RIAA phono stage against the lot and see how it would fare. Personally, I would also be curious about a Paradise phono stage, which -although from the SS camp- has received rave reviews.

In any case, bake-offs can be so informative and eye-opening in most cases.




I think you are right Panos, the 25R phono stage does have the Croft sound but is more simple than the RIAA phono stages. i have asked the question of Glenn too and there is not enough room to put the RIAA phono stage in the 25R.

I expect the RIAA R and RS to sound significantly better! and they are where I will be heading in the future.:)

On the day of the bake off the basic Croft phono stage sounded great even amongst very good company.

Macca
09-07-2018, 12:03
Maybe we should run the bake off again!:lol:

You can lug that bloody Krell around if we're going to do it again. My back feels like I spent the whole day yesterday doing deadlifts.

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 12:06
Hi James,

I am also in search of a new phono stage. It would have been great to put a 'real' Croft RIAA phono stage against the lot and see how it would fare. Personally, I would also be curious about a Paradise phono stage, which -although from the SS camp- has received rave reviews.

In any case, bake-offs can be so informative and eye-opening in most cases.

I have heard the Paradise phono stage - It is very good. I have not heard a Croft RIAA / RIAA R / RIAA RS but I should imagine they are fabulous. The few reports I have read say they are very very good. Pity you cannot get one to try?

Floyddroid
09-07-2018, 12:39
Still no pictures?

Blackmass
09-07-2018, 13:12
Good Afternoon Gents,

Firstly apologies for my absence. I’ve had a cold for a few days and a persistent cough. The cough was doing my head in and it would’ve been unfair of me to show up with a cold and a cough which would be very distracting for everyone else in attendance. I did contact Oliver at the 11th hour to let him know I wouldn’t be coming.

I was gutted I couldn’t attend. From what I’ve read it sounds like a great time was had by all. I’m pleased it went well.

Keep the reports coming.

Cheers
Rob

Barry
09-07-2018, 13:17
Sounds like everybody had a great time! :)

I wonder how things would have stacked up if the valve units had been tried first and the solid state afterwards? You know how it is when listening to various equipment over an extended period. Impressions change.

My thoughts exactly, though I was pleased to see the Aqvox did well, despite being run in unbalanced mode.

Anyway it sound as though a great time was had by all; congratulations to Oli for organising it and to all those that brought along the gear.



When we get to see some photos, it would be nice to see a list of the music played.

brian2957
09-07-2018, 13:28
Aye , sounds like you all had a great time and thanks to Oliver for doing all the hard work to make the day a success . I'm really enjoying all the comments :)

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 13:36
I took a fair amount but they won't upload to the forum. I think the file size is too big. Should have taken them on my phone.

I'll try and resize them and get them on tomorrow. Jimbo took a lot of pics so maybe he will help too.
Still no pictures?

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 13:37
Good Afternoon Gents,

Firstly apologies for my absence. I’ve had a cold for a few days and a persistent cough. The cough was doing my head in and it would’ve been unfair of me to show up with a cold and a cough which would be very distracting for everyone else in attendance. I did contact Oliver at the 11th hour to let him know I wouldn’t be coming.

I was gutted I couldn’t attend. From what I’ve read it sounds like a great time was had by all. I’m pleased it went well.

Keep the reports coming.

Cheers
RobDon't worry Rob, we will do it again next year. It was a fun day and I enjoyed it massively. Unfortunately, I'm now trying to workout how to afford a new SUT and VAS phonostage [emoji23][emoji23]

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 13:41
I will try and get some photos on tonight. Unfortunately I did not get one of the VAS!:doh:

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 13:56
Oh no, neither did I!
I will try and get some photos on tonight. Unfortunately I did not get one of the VAS!:doh:

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 14:54
Oh no, neither did I!

We must have been in such awe of the VAS we forgot to photograph it!:lol:

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 14:55
We must have been in such awe of the VAS we forgot to photograph it![emoji38]Hahaha, I was stunned when we put John Lee Hooker on it. Sweet Jesus, it was good

Happy birthday BTW!!

TheMooN
09-07-2018, 14:56
Sounds like everybody had a grand day out which is to the credit of the organisers, excellent choice of TT as a neutral bottom line, pleased to read that nothing 'Undesirable' manifest itself to spoil the day!

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 15:09
Hahaha, I was stunned when we put John Lee Hooker on it. Sweet Jesus, it was good

Happy birthday BTW!!

Cheers Oliver. Out for a few beers tonight just across the road from our Sunday meeting!:):cool:

Firebottle
09-07-2018, 15:16
Have a good one James, less years to go now :D

DIGNA: I have found more info on the Digna phono stage, jfi.
It has SUT on the input, followed by the Burson chip providing amplification, followed by 1/2 the valve in grounded grid configuration.
Then the passive EQ followed by a cathode follower using the 2nd 1/2 of the valve.

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 15:21
Enjoy mate, you don't look a day over..................[emoji6]
Cheers Oliver. Out for a few beers tonight just across the road from our Sunday meeting!:):cool:

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 15:25
No sign of anything other than a really enjoyable day. Great fun.

The TT was solid and showed why it's one of THE best DDs of all time, in my humble opinion.
Sounds like everybody had a grand day out which is to the credit of the organisers, excellent choice of TT as a neutral bottom line, pleased to read that nothing 'Undesirable' manifest itself to spoil the day!

Firebottle
09-07-2018, 15:39
I think we put a very capable system together providing a really good insight into the phono stages performance.

When something like this is provided I think it is easy to forget that everything in the chain is important. The best supporting equipment will always be necessary to give the insight required, particularly with such top notch stages being compared.

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 16:31
Setting the stage...
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1761/43302300921_f06d99a6b7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28YtBrc)image (https://flic.kr/p/28YtBrc) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 16:34
The awesome SP10 DD. turntable with Kontrapunkt b on vinyl duties
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/917/43302303751_afcaf40626_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28YtCgZ)image (https://flic.kr/p/28YtCgZ) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 16:36
The Krell power amp supplying the juice.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/917/29432384378_f2f7c3066a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LQQEt5)image (https://flic.kr/p/LQQEt5) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]

Qwin
09-07-2018, 16:41
Great meeting, really enjoyed it and worth the effort to get there.
All the stages put in good performances and differences were small as you went up through the ranks.
There is something special about a valve phono stage and the best on show were very good indeed, it was difficult to split the top three.
Glad my solid state Aqvox was well received, I'd never heard it used in single ended voltage amplifier mode before, I always used it as a balanced current amplifier.
The performance of the boxes at the lower end of the price range was very impressive.

The Rankings pretty much reflect what I heard.

Can't wait for the next one.

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 16:43
I have to nip out for a birthday drink and Chinese takeaway but will post all the phono stage pics later!:cool:

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 16:52
I have to nip out for a birthday drink and Chinese takeaway but will post all the phono stage pics later!:cool:Thanks Jim, glad you took them.

Has Stoyan (spelt wrong no doubt) got a link to VAS? Maybe a picture too?

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 16:54
Great meeting, really enjoyed it and worth the effort to get there.
All the stages put in good performances and differences were small as you went up through the ranks.
There is something special about a valve phono stage and the best on show were very good indeed, it was difficult to split the top three.
Glad my solid state Aqvox was well received, I'd never heard it used in single ended voltage amplifier mode before, I always used it as a balanced current amplifier.
The performance of the boxes at the lower end of the price range was very impressive.

The Rankings pretty much reflect what I heard.

Can't wait for the next one.I was impressed with the Aqvox mate. Didn't have the glare that the solid state types I've tried before seemed to posses.

You've bought well.

I have email the halls treasure to ask if the cleaners can have a look for your Knob. Ooh err lol

mikeyb
09-07-2018, 17:26
I've been hunting for info on the VAS stage but so far drawn a blank. I'd be interested in a link too, not that I'm in the market for a new stage of course lol.

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 17:33
I've been hunting for info on the VAS stage but so far drawn a blank. I'd be interested in a link too, not that I'm in the market for a new stage of course lol.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

The VAS was outstanding. Seriously good. I loved it. Only issue is it's MM only. SUTs and HA are a rabbit hole I don't want to go into again. I'm thinking of trying to find a Paradise.

Macca
09-07-2018, 17:46
I've been hunting for info on the VAS stage but so far drawn a blank. I'd be interested in a link too, not that I'm in the market for a new stage of course lol.

You need to go on the DIY forum and speak to the member called 'VAS'. From what I gathered he doesn't have a company or a website, just builds to order.

karma67
09-07-2018, 18:04
do you mean diy audio?
he's only made 8 post on there?

Macca
09-07-2018, 18:16
do you mean diy audio?
he's only made 8 post on there?

I'm only saying what the owner told us. 'The DIY Forum' was what he said. I assumed that was the actual name of the forum.

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 18:17
I'm only saying what the owner told us. 'The DIY Forum' was what he said. I assumed that was the actual name of the forum.I still haven't found him lol

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 18:44
Some of the Solid State phono stages- sorry about poor quality
Trilogy
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1821/43302302951_5bfafaace2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28YtC3c)image (https://flic.kr/p/28YtC3c) by
EAR 834
[url=https://flic.kr/p/26dzAoY][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/839/41492828740_22e762bac4_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03[/IMG)
image (https://flic.kr/p/26dzAoY) by

Russell Technologies
[url=https://flic.kr/p/KjwBJa]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/921/28433011497_999a251ea2_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)image (https://flic.kr/p/KjwBJa) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]

Ammonite Audio
09-07-2018, 18:53
Is that an actual EAR 834 phono stage, or a clone?

Barry
09-07-2018, 18:54
What is the unit to the right, just out of shot, with the BNC connectors?

Also the photo for the Russell Technologies unit shows the EAR 834PM.

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 19:02
Aqvox phono stage
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1763/43302302111_df96fc05cb_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28YtBMH)image (https://flic.kr/p/28YtBMH) by

Valves phono stages
Croft 25R top with K&K SUT on top and the Wizard phono stage below

[url=https://flic.kr/p/LQQEAE]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1826/29432384818_7b0996c093_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)image (https://flic.kr/p/LQQEAE) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 19:08
An oscilliscope

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 19:22
Firebottle Kin preamp used for all phono stage evaluation
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1763/43302304191_5cdbe5c5e7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28YtCpz)image (https://flic.kr/p/28YtCpz) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03

Jimbo
09-07-2018, 19:26
Digna phono stage
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1825/42397773605_0fa549a839_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27AxEYD)image (https://flic.kr/p/27AxEYD) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]J

Bigman80
09-07-2018, 19:40
Firebottle Kin preamp used for all phono stage evaluation
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1763/43302304191_5cdbe5c5e7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28YtCpz)image (https://flic.kr/p/28YtCpz) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03I thought this and the Krell sounded great together.