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Strange one this but I have observed over the last couple of nights a difference in my system caused by using different plug sockets.
I have two double silver plated sockets, the one double socket is a spur running off the other socket.
When I plug my system in and use both sockets it does not sound as good as it does when it is plugged into just the one double socket. I run a power amp off the one side of the socket and the other has a block connector plugged in from which I run a pre amp and turntable.
I am sure there should be no difference but I hear it - strange or what::scratch:
brian2957
13-05-2018, 19:12
Nah mate yer hearing things ...it's cos you're an :wheniwasaboy: :ner:
Bigman80
13-05-2018, 19:17
Lol, that's it, were off down the rabbit hole again!!!
It must be my age. This is when you start hearing and seeing things that aren't there!:lol:
I assume one of the double silver-plated mains socket is wall mounted and is part of the ring main, or maybe on a dedicated spur.
I think you have already answered your own question: plug the power amp directly into one socket of the wall-mounted double, and the pre and TT into the other using a two-way adaptor. Using a multi-way block shouldn't make a difference, but clearly it does to your ears. Is it a 'cheapo' distribution block one might buy in Poundland, or an 'audiophile' item?
I assume one of the double silver-plated mains socket is wall mounted and is part of the ring main, or maybe on a dedicated spur.
I think you have already answered your own question: plug the power amp directly into one socket of the wall-mounted double, and the pre and TT into the other using a two-way adaptor. Using a multi-way block shouldn't make a difference, but clearly it does to your ears. Is it a 'cheapo' distribution block one might buy in Poundland, or an 'audiophile' item?
It's an audiophile distribution block.
What make is it? Does it have any filtering or surge suppression fitted?
What make is it? Does it have any filtering or surge suppression fitted?
It's an mcru and has no filtering or surge suppression or switches in it.
Strange one this but I have observed over the last couple of nights a difference in my system caused by using different plug sockets.
I have two double silver plated sockets, the one double socket is a spur running off the other socket.
When I plug my system in and use both sockets it does not sound as good as it does when it is plugged into just the one double socket. I run a power amp off the one side of the socket and the other has a block connector plugged in from which I run a pre amp and turntable.
How are you able to plug three items into one double socket?
Hi Jim,
Do remember that on double wall sockets, the earth usually connects to the L/H side of the socket (where there is provision for such), not the right, therefore for that reason, quite often you'll find that equipment plugged into the L/H side of a wall socket sounds better.
Now, if your mains distribution block is plugged into the L/H side of one of your sockets, then everything connected to the block is taking advantage of that improved connection, which may explain what you're hearing.
It's one of the reasons why I always go for single wall sockets, rather than double, as each will have its own individual earth point. And if you're using a distribution block, you should always plug the most sonically influential kit into the socket nearest the incoming mains (the first one next to the cable powering the block), followed by the next most sonically influential, etc.
The most sonically influential piece of kit, for me, is always your main source (T/T, CDP or whatever), followed by preamp, then power amp. Although, in a vinyl system, a separate phono stage would come before the preamp.
Let me give an example...
Say you've got a CDP/T/T/phonostage/preamp and power amp, and a 6-way distribution block, plugged into the L/H side of a double wall socket, and the T/T is your main source. Then I'd plug the T/T into position 1 (first socket nearest the incoming mains), phonostage into position 2, CDP into position 3, preamp into position 4, and power amp into position 5.
*However* sometimes power amps benefit from being connected to their own dedicated wall socket. Therefore, in your case, with two double sockets, you may benefit from connecting your distribution block to the L/H side of one socket (with your equipment plugged into it as outlined), and isolate the power amp, by plugging it alone into the L/H side of the other double socket.
Anyway, just a few things for you to consider! :cool:
Marco.
I've coincidentally been contemplating this point recently, and it seems that there are conflicting factors to consider.
I agree Marco about your conclusion from an earthing standpoint, but this means that the other items, often drawing much more current, eg. power amps, will draw that current past the sensitive items, possibly causing a voltage drop which may appear in series with paths of the sensitive ones.
Do remember that on double wall sockets, the earth usually connects to the L/H side of the socket (where there is provision for such), not the right, therefore for that reason, quite often you'll find that equipment plugged into the L/H side of a wall socket sounds better.
Now, if your mains distribution block is plugged into the L/H side of one of your sockets, then everything connected to the block is taking advantage of that improved connection, which may explain what you're hearing.
It's one of the reasons why I always go for single wall sockets, rather than double, as each will have its own individual earth point. And if you're using a distribution block, you should always plug the most sonically influential kit into the socket nearest the incoming mains (the first one next to the cable powering the block), followed by the next most sonically influential, etc.
The most sonically influential piece of kit, for me, is always your main source (T/T, CDP or whatever), followed by preamp, then power amp. Although, in a vinyl system, a separate phono stage would come before the preamp.
Let me give an example...
Say you've got a CDP/T/T/phonostage/preamp and power amp, and a 6-way distribution block, plugged into the L/H side of a double wall socket, and the T/T is your main source. Then I'd plug the T/T into position 1 (first socket nearest the incoming mains), phonostage into position 2, CDP into position 3, preamp into position 4, and power amp into position 5.
*However* sometimes power amps benefit from being connected to their own dedicated wall socket. Therefore, in your case, with two double sockets, you may benefit from connecting your distribution block to the L/H side of one socket (with your equipment plugged into it as outlined), and isolate the power amp, by plugging it alone into the L/H side of the other double socket.
Anyway, just a few things for you to consider! :cool:
Marco.
Thanks Marco, your last paragraph relates to the only combination I have not tried yet so this needs to be evaluated. However I do concur that the L/H double socket is proving to sound noticeably better than the right so you are spot on there!
I agree Marco about your conclusion from an earthing standpoint, but this means that the other items, often drawing much more current, eg. power amps, will draw that current past the sensitive items, possibly causing a voltage drop which may appear in series with paths of the sensitive ones.
Yup, which is why, as I've said, there may be some benefit had by plugging the power amp into its own socket.
Marco.
Thanks Marco, your last paragraph relates to the only combination I have not tried yet so this needs to be evaluated. However I do concur that the L/H double socket is proving to sound noticeably better than the right so you are spot on there!
No problem, Jim. I went through all this stuff years ago, in my mains tweaking days, and learnt a lot. Try it and see what you think, and also (if necessary) revise the order of plug-in on your mains block, as outlined.
Aside from whether your power amp will benefit accordingly or not, the L/H side of a double wall socket will generally always sound best, because of the earth factor...
It really just highlights how important earth arrangements are in any mains installation, and also the potential bottleneck introduced by any type of socket, which is why, if you can, hard-wiring is always best!;)
Marco.
Mike Reed
14-05-2018, 10:18
Aside from whether your power amp will benefit accordingly or not, the L/H side of a double wall socket will generally always sound best, because of the earth factor... It really just highlights how important earth arrangements are in any mains installation, and also the potential bottleneck introduced by any type of socket, which is why, if you can, hard-wiring is always best!;)
Marco.
Agreed and impressed, Marco. I'm still working out what a plug socket is..........:) Your astute comment regarding the earth connection on double sockets prompted me to ferret out my old MK unswitched doubles last used two decades ago, and they have this connection on the r/h side looking from the front, as has a switched double I found in my box of mains rubbish. However, these each have a substantial metal bar joining the two earth pin entry points. Unless different brands are different, maybe you were looking at the back, as one does, of course.
Hard wiring is fine for dedicated radial circuits with adequate protection (as I have and imagine you still do), but it's a bit more tricky with combinations of plug, fuse, socket and ring mains. I do agree, though, as most aficionados would, the value of the earth to sonic nirvana, or at least, dynamics. Something about impedance, I vaguely remember, but it's far too technical for my senile brain. Another point is the importance of keeping ALL contacts (plug pins, sockets (if accessible) and fuse holders, clean, pref. by using a de-oxidant application.
As an adjunct, although we both ( I think) believe in the mains supply importance, I've been cogitating a theory that dedicated mains may not be as important for or effective with valved kit as with s/s (and esp. Naim !). This is not to decry a decent mains delivery system, of course, but could have something to do with the difference between toroidal and other types of tranny. Just a thought.
I thought I had improved my mains connections, power leads, sockets etc as much as I could without resorting to separate Radial but it just goes to show small detail can make a significant difference. It never occurred to me that one side of a plug socket could make a difference!
All these small differences make such a difference when they are all added together however I feel the biggest difference would be if I could clean up the power supply and reduce the noise floor and go off grid.
This should do the trick.
https://stromtank.com/s5000hp/
Have you looked into balanced mains feeding your kit James?
Bigman80
14-05-2018, 18:10
That's worked wonders here.
Have you looked into balanced mains feeding your kit James?
Have you looked into balanced mains feeding your kit James?
I have toyed with the idea and I am convinced it will improve things a fair bit. I am sure this will happen in the near future but I have quite a few plans ahead just at the moment!:)
No problem, Jim. I went through all this stuff years ago, in my mains tweaking days, and learnt a lot. Try it and see what you think, and also (if necessary) revise the order of plug-in on your mains block, as outlined.
Aside from whether your power amp will benefit accordingly or not, the L/H side of a double wall socket will generally always sound best, because of the earth factor...
It really just highlights how important earth arrangements are in any mains installation, and also the potential bottleneck introduced by any type of socket, which is why, if you can, hard-wiring is always best!;)
Marco.
I have now plugged power amp into left hand side of socket and distribution block in other side which has pre amp and turntable plugged in. This set up sounds best.
Glad to learn you have now sorted the problem Jim, but remember that not all 13A socket plates have the wiring connections closest to the left-hand socket; it depends on the manufacturer, and even the same manufacturer will change their design with time (usually in an attempt to economise! :rolleyes:)
Indeed, and that's why it's best to use single sockets. That way, you can't go wrong!;)
Or even better, hard-wire...
Marco.
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