View Full Version : Qutest and my Digital Weekend.
I have not had any digital equipment in my house for the past four years as I made a decision to listen only to vinyl and analogue after rediscovering how good vinyl sounded in contrast to digital (CD). At the time I bought my turntable I was actually thinking of using a digital front end but this was halted in its tracks after an enlightening experience at a friends house. I bought a VPI turntable and for the past 3 years this has been my only source for music in the home.
I have however kept a close eye and ear on where digital has got too with an explosion in streaming and a move to file based audio. I always though the DAC was the key part of the digital chain and everything else was secondary but I have since learnt that in digital audio every part and technical aspect of the system can make dramatic differences to the end result.
I have long argued that analogue sounds better than digital and I still hold this view but this weekend I concluded a long journey to final arrive at a possible digital based system to be used in my hifi set up. I knew it would not be simple, just look at all the stuff written just on this forum about DACs, USB cables, FBA, Servers, streamers, CDP, Pi, ripping, bit rates etc etc. There seems to be even more technical aspects to digital audio and a good outcome than vinyl!:)
So after a much research and questioning all over the net and on various forums I have come to my own conclusion as to what matters and more importantly what works well. Everyone has an opinion but some arguments don't hold up when scrutinised and when theory is replaced with actual listening experience the truth comes out.
So I put together two systems based around the latest DAC from Chord called the Qutest.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/863/41228806864_a7bee25265_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25PfpTE)IMG_0007 (https://flic.kr/p/25PfpTE) by
The Qutest was also very easy to set up and control. It is extremely well made and very small but solid. I tried all the filters with my Macbook but nothing improved on the neutral setting
First system was using my Macbook Pro and probably the best software out there for FBA which is Audirvana. The whole experience with Audirvana was excellent. It worked perfectly and sounded excellent. I used Audirvana Plus on the iPad to control it. I hooked up my Macbook to the Qutest via USB and spent a day listening to a wide range of material. Again Audirvana worked perfectly and sounded really good through the Qutest. However everything I played back had a certain sound which although not bad, robbed the music of some of its vitality and dynamics. The music sounded very smooth but I always felt a distance from the performance like everything was veiled. I tried optical output but this was worse. This system although good left me unconvinced and I questioned how good the Qutest DAC actually was. I was a little disappointed but it was a learning curve. Ripped files to a Laptop even using proprietary software was only going to get you so far.
So next system I tried again using FBA was build around the InnuOS Zen mini Mk2.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/25PfqdY]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/872/41228807984_cdd577a35e_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)IMG_0006 (https://flic.kr/p/25PfqdY) by
This is also a small unit but very well made. It is a CD ripper/ NAS/streamer and again was amazingly easy to set up and integrate in my system. I used Ipeng on the iPad to control it and I must say it worked flawlessly. All music on this device was bit perfect rips of CDs mostly 16bit with a few 24bit downloads. I connected this using USB 2 interface.
As soon as I played the first track through my Croft amp into my Spender SP2s I knew something dramatically had improved! Wow what a difference, literally night and day! Dynamics increased massively as did the bass, detail and realism. The Qutest was now showing its pedigree. It is an unbelievable great DAC, simply superb. This set up showed how utterly important your digital front end needs to be.
The sound stunned me and I spent a very long day and night listening to a huge amount of material. I had found a digital system that could compete with my vinyl system at last.
The Chord Qutest / InnuOS server sounded wonderful and delivered a compelling performance. The veils were lifted totally and I heard detail and superb tonal quality. Vocals sounded real and in the room and on well mastered material it was fabulous. I could go on all day but to conclude.
I now know what it takes to get a great digital sound in my system. I now know which bits are important to get right .Although it sounded smooth and much more like analogue than digital it was still not as good as the best analogue, however it was good enough in its own right to earn a place in my system. I loved it and it showed a well thought out digital set up can sound excellent even to an old digital cynic like me!:)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/25PfpTE]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/863/41228806864_1f6847f820_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)IMG_0007 (https://flic.kr/p/25PfpTE) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]
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Bigman80
07-05-2018, 11:15
Looks like you have been having fun mate. Is that about £2k of toys?
Winding what that innuos might do for the M2TECH?
Great stuff James, glad it all worked out.
Run pretty decent setups of both types here at Gaz towers, both different experiences but both enjoyable.
Keep enjoying the vinyl!
Firebottle
07-05-2018, 12:46
Excellent James, looking forward to getting a listen sometime.
I know you have been on a very long journey of experience to get to a digital system you can live with. Well done mate and enjoy it :D
Primalsea
07-05-2018, 13:20
I don’t have any experience of the Hugo, but I did have the Dac 64 and expect there would be some similarities. I don’t think the Hugo has a FIFO buffer and imagine that the source would have an effect on the final sound. Mac Books are good but they are not optimised for low noise connections for audio.
Its a shame that the dual BNC cannot be used with non Chord equipment. It would be wonderful I imagine.
Looks like you have been having fun mate. Is that about £2k of toys?
Winding what that innuos might do for the M2TECH?
Unfortunately it is £2K of toys.
The InnuOS server was as important as the DAC in delivering a stellar performance. I was shocked when I tried it in my system compared to the Macbook Pro. I underestimated this key area in digital playback but not only was it very simple to use, the software was very good indeed.
I see the Server as the cartridge and the DAC as the phono stage in a digital system. Get them both right and it all comes together.
Great stuff James, glad it all worked out.
Run pretty decent setups of both types here at Gaz towers, both different experiences but both enjoyable.
Keep enjoying the vinyl!
Hi Gary, sorry missed your call! Yes it has worked out very well indeed. The Qutest is a very revealing and analogue sounding DAC and combined with the Innuos server it puts in a fantastic performance.
Congrats on your purchases and findings Jimbo, I had very similar experiences. Have you played around with the filters and voltage settings?
Congrats on your purchases and findings Jimbo, I had very similar experiences. Have you played around with the filters and voltage settings?
I did try the filters but have found the neutral filter best suited, this is the unadulterated filter.:) My amps input sensitivity is 125mV on line input so the 2V setting on the Qutest is probably best match although I did like the extra whack of the 3V
I did try the filters but have found the neutral filter best suited, this is the unadulterated filter.:) My amps input sensitivity is 125mV on line input so the 2V setting on the Qutest is probably best match although I did like the extra whack of the 3V
You could hear a difference? (Non-sarcasm mode engaged ;) )
You could hear a difference? (Non-sarcasm mode engaged ;) )
:lol: Not much difference at all!
So...
dust has settled and its a week later.
Any updates James?
brian2957
12-05-2018, 10:19
Aye , interested to read your feedback on this James .
I did try a couple of laptops which were pretty good but it all really came together when Gary built me a dedicated server . I still use that same server today , 8 years later :)
Just a couple of tweaks as time went on and I thought of new stuff to try, glad your still enjoying it mate.
So...
dust has settled and its a week later.
Any updates James?
Well I can only reiterate that the InnuOS Server is so important in the digital set up, not only for ease of ripping and its control of all the unwanted noise in the system but also its software interface via IPeng on the iPad is perfect. Switching between the Laptop and Server is like night and day, I would never have assumed there would have been such a massive difference.
As for the Qutest. It becomes an almost invisible part of the system just allowing the recording to come through in all its detail and with such a natural analogue sound. It almost tricks your ear believing your a hearing great analogue until you switch back to vinyl and you then become aware of its slight processing of the music. I am sure this would not be quite as a parent with DAVE or probably the new Hugo TT2! Really DAVE is what you need to give you that total experience with great depth, soundstage, detail and musicality. But at a fraction of the price the Qutest is stunning.
Frazeur1
18-05-2018, 14:28
Very nice Jimbo, I also like what the Innuos brings to the table. I had a friend bring his Zen Mk2 over and we hooked it into my LinnenberG Telemann DAC, very nice indeed. Music seems to flow much better, not to mention it is just an easier device to rip/store/maneuver around etc. than my clunky laptop.
I had already planned on getting a Zen anyway, but am currently in a holding pattern on one, as Innuos just announced some new updates for their lineup, which I am sure will be more pricey as well. Will see/hear how this all pans out hopefully very soon, but Innuos is my way forward.
I had been on the fence for some time now with getting back to analog, but after looking at the big picture, this was a no brainer for me.
I have an older version of your digital source Liv Zen ripper/streamer >> Chord 2Qute put together for less than £1,000 on the used market. I went
through more than two changes though to get there, first I had a Naim ND5XS which became mostly redundant after I added a 2Qute. I then used my
macbook as a player but was a bit underwelmed, next I tried a Rasberry Pi based player and would have probably stayed with that if I could have got my
head around it a bit more, next up was an SOtM 100 mini Player easier to use than the Rasberry but limited access to online straming services although I
believe the new SOtM SMS 200 is much improved. Last I tried the Liv Zen which is the first version of the Innous Zen before they changed names, I
imagine they have also made improvements since my unit was made but it is essentially the same player.
When I got the Liv Zen it was first and foremost to stream Tidal and internet radio the ripper/nas side of things was a bonus although I only had about 50
CD's in the loft but I have started to buy CD's to rip spending no more than £3 inc p&p on each and am building a small collection again but like you my
primary source is vinyl based and although the Liv Zen >> 2Qute is great and very convenient access to endless music it isn't the same.
maxrob200
24-05-2018, 11:49
Isn't the Chord Qutest about £1800? If so, then you could also consider the Metrum range of NOS DAC's e.g. Amethyst or Onyx
RRP is £1195 but can be had for less if you phone around.
maxrob200
25-05-2018, 02:57
I used the RRP for Hugo by mistake
Well, I never, didn't think you would go there James :D
Glad you are getting good results.
Move over, I'm lining up to get into Hi-Rez digital downloads and streaming services myself.
My approach will be some what different, but like you I want to keep my vinyl/analogue capability.
I have been looking at this for quite a while and rethought the whole set up several times. I'm currently looking at products from Primare/Classe/PS Audio, these all produce analogue Pre amps with built in DAC, so the Pre accepts digital or analog inputs and is a one box solution. They all control the volume, source selection etc in the analogue domain which is good for my vinyl. They are all fully balanced designs and have both balanced XLR and single ended RCA Inputs/Outputs, so very flexible bits of kit. My favorite contender is the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC (GCD) Pre, pictured below, It's a full width product and I'm trying to arrange a home demo of it.
http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Pics/Z_005_GCD.JPG
What I particularly like about this model is the digital I2S input using HDMI cable/sockets. PS Audio created this system and several manufacturers have followed suit using the same pinout, which PS Audio have shared. They sent me details by email, but I later found they had published the schematic for an open use output board on the web, including pin out details. This board allows other manufacturers I2S capable gear to have an output added that can plug into the PS Audio range using I2S over HDMI cable. Audio-GD produce a pin compatible output board like this (available from Audiophonics) and they have also adopted this arrangement on some of their own DAC's.
My concept is to use a single board computer (SBC) and take it's I2S output through an ALLO Kali I2S reclocker then through an Audio-GD I2S (HDMI) output board and on to the Stellar GCD through a standard v2.0 HDMI cable.
My data storage will be on a NAS drive, both it and my internet streaming modem/hub will be connected to the SBC using Gigabit Ethernet cable. So there wont be any WiFi, USB or Spdif interfaces anywhere in the music chain.
I will be using LibreELEC OS and Kodi player.
LibreELEC is a trimmed down version of Linux with just the essentials needed to run Kodi, which comes as part of the distribution, so it's less resource hungry. Also Kodi has an add on for Qobuz, which is my streaming service of choice, for several reasons I won't go into here.
It's an ambitious project but I don't want to jack your thread, so I will start my own on the subject when I get into it, as I'm sure it will be of interest to others wanting to reap the benefits of I2S's simpler and cleaner audio path.
Well, I never, didn't think you would go there James :D
Glad you are getting good results.
Move over, I'm lining up to get into Hi-Rez digital downloads and streaming services myself.
My approach will be some what different, but like you I want to keep my vinyl/analogue capability.
I have been looking at this for quite a while and rethought the whole set up several times. I'm currently looking at products from Primare/Classe/PS Audio, these all produce analogue Pre amps with built in DAC, so the Pre accepts digital or analog inputs and is a one box solution. They all control the volume, source selection etc in the analogue domain which is good for my vinyl. They are all fully balanced designs and have both balanced XLR and single ended RCA Inputs/Outputs, so very flexible bits of kit. My favorite contender is the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC (GCD) Pre, pictured below, It's a full width product and I'm trying to arrange a home demo of it.
http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Pics/Z_005_GCD.JPG
What I particularly like about this model is the digital I2S input using HDMI cable/sockets. PS Audio created this system and several manufacturers have followed suit using the same pinout, which PS Audio have shared. They sent me details by email, but I later found they had published the schematic for an open use output board on the web, including pin out details. This board allows other manufacturers I2S capable gear to have an output added that can plug into the PS Audio range using I2S over HDMI cable. Audio-GD produce a pin compatible output board like this (available from Audiophonics) and they have also adopted this arrangement on some of their own DAC's.
My concept is to use a single board computer (SBC) and take it's I2S output through an ALLO Kali I2S reclocker then through an Audio-GD I2S (HDMI) output board and on to the Stellar GCD through a standard v2.0 HDMI cable.
My data storage will be on a NAS drive, both it and my internet streaming modem/hub will be connected to the SBC using Gigabit Ethernet cable. So there wont be any WiFi, USB or Spdif interfaces anywhere in the music chain.
I will be using LibreELEC OS and Kodi player.
LibreELEC is a trimmed down version of Linux with just the essentials needed to run Kodi, which comes as part of the distribution, so it's less resource hungry. Also Kodi has an add on for Qobuz, which is my streaming service of choice, for several reasons I won't go into here.
It's an ambitious project but I don't want to jack your thread, so I will start my own on the subject when I get into it, as I'm sure it will be of interest to others wanting to reap the benefits of I2S's simpler and cleaner audio path.
The PS Audio stuff is very good indeed Ken. I believe Gazjam has one of their DACs and is more than pleased with it.
I thought using HDMI for audio had clocking issues, something to do with it expecting there to be video content along with the audio?
Firebottle
07-06-2018, 15:22
It sounds like they are just using the HDMI cable and connectors, rather than the interface Martin.
Sounds good to me to be using something readily available.
It sounds like they are just using the HDMI cable and connectors, rather than the interface Martin.
Sounds good to me to be using something readily available.
Okay that makes sense then. figured I must be missing something.
I thought using HDMI for audio had clocking issues, something to do with it expecting there to be video content along with the audio?
ive extracted audio from hdmi and it was extremely good. alas the extractor packed up. wasnt cheap either so wont be dealing with neet again.
ive extracted audio from hdmi and it was extremely good. alas the extractor packed up. wasnt cheap either so wont be dealing with neet again.
It's not likely to be audible, it's just sub-optimal in terms of the SNR.
The PS Audio stuff is very good indeed Ken. I believe Gazjam has one of their DACs and is more than pleased with it.
Yup,
PS Audio gear is superb.
A real cliche, but I’m really rediscovering my music collection with this Dac.
Using it as a Roon endpoint with direct LAN connection from my server, down the line I’ll be fitting an i2s output board to my Oppo 203 to enable me to hook it up via the Directstreams i2s input.
The Oppo will act as a Roon endpoint and DSD output SACD player in to the Dac, which should sound.....nice.
The Stellar Dac gets a lot of very good reviews, these guys know what they are doing.
Look forward to read now you get on Ken.
I thought using HDMI for audio had clocking issues, something to do with it expecting there to be video content along with the audio?
I'm not suggesting using HDMI protocol Martin, this method just uses the HDMI sockets and cables as a means of sending the I2S signal.
Edit: I see others pointed it out further along.
Yes HDMI is just an off the shelf cable and socket system that PS Audio thought would be good to use for this purpose, many folks have made the same mystake and wondered why their blue ray player wouldn't produce any sound via HDMI. It further complicates things that you can extract the audio element from a true HDMI signal. My NAD M51 DAC can do that.
Which DAC you got Gaz?
Mine won't be an immediate purchase, just going to pull the trigger on two stereo power amps ( Nord NC500 ) for my semi active speakers, so the piggy bank will need replenishing. :)
Edit Edit: I see you mention Directstream Gaz, gotcha.
Yup,
PS Audio gear is superb.
A real cliche, but I’m really rediscovering my music collection with this Dac.
Using it as a Roon endpoint with direct LAN connection from my server, down the line I’ll be fitting an i2s output board to my Oppo 203 to enable me to hook it up via the Directstreams i2s input.
The Oppo will act as a Roon endpoint and DSD output SACD player in to the Dac, which should sound.....nice.
The Stellar Dac gets a lot of very good reviews, these guys know what they are doing.
Look forward to read now you get on Ken.
Which output board are you thinking of fitting to the Oppo?
Which output board are you thinking of fitting to the Oppo?
Its made by the same guy who does a linear psu for the 203, Hong Kong based company called OppoMod.
Power supply really improves things, guys work is top quality.
This one:
http://pcaudio.tistory.com/555?category=500476
Looks a well made board, it's a such a shame that Oppo have dropped out of the disk spinner market. Their products were/are very popular, it just doesn't make sense. It's a bit Like when Logitech dropped their popular streamers.
Its a difficult one isn't it? :scratch:
Oppo have said (basically) that once their 4K players were out that was that for them.
I know the Blu-ray players were a smaller part of their overall business?
I've done a few worthwhile mods to my player, if it's Oppo's last hurrah I want to get it as good as possible.
The thought with the i2s board is to get (at least on paper!) a cheaper version of PS Audio's Directstream memory player.
Don't expect it to near as good but should sound pretty respectable.
Not really a CD spinner nowadays, but the improvements in bluray audio and as a Roon endpoint over i2s make it worth it to me.
Looks a well made board, it's a such a shame that Oppo have dropped out of the disk spinner market. Their products were/are very popular, it just doesn't make sense. It's a bit Like when Logitech dropped their popular streamers.
ive extracted audio from hdmi and it was extremely good. alas the extractor packed up. wasnt cheap either so wont be dealing with neet again.
Grant you have PM mate.
dsyzling
09-06-2018, 10:26
Its made by the same guy who does a linear psu for the 203, Hong Kong based company called OppoMod.
Power supply really improves things, guys work is top quality.
This one:
http://pcaudio.tistory.com/555?category=500476
'103(D)' should I to read that as supports the 103 and 103D or 103D only?
'103(D)' should I to read that as supports the 103 and 103D or 103D only?
I read it as the 103(D) only, and could make sense given the D has an extra board for the Darbee processing.
Perhaps this affects the HDMI connectivity somehow?
Dunno.
Send him a mail if your interested, always found the guy to be helpful and willing to answer any questions I've had.
dsyzling
10-06-2018, 16:03
Thanks I may do that - but I suspect your interpretation is correct.
Just as I found in my review of the Qutest with a Macbook vs Innuos the Innuos came out top in this Darko review. He compared the Innuos against a number of usual suspects and his conclusions are similar to mine. Yes its expensive, but if you want the best sound from digital audio this is the way to go.
https://darko.audio/2019/02/a-short-film-about-the-innuos-zen-mk3/
Qute Beats
08-07-2019, 07:47
those dedicated music servers can sure be expensive though. I've never tried one but am really happy with my cheap Intel NUC with SSD drive (music on external HDD), used solely for music with the excellent Musicbee as player. NUC connects to Qutest via Toslink, I find this much cleaner than USB (even with the various decrapifiers I tried). Folk spend so much cash on fancy USB cables, my optical cable was £2 and better sounding than any USB option I've tried (Supra, AQ, Chord).
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