WTD: cheap and cheerful MC cartridge

[Lawrence001]

Does such a thing exist? I've wanted to have a play for years but can't afford much. Just bought this RFC prototype SUT from PFM (doesn't look like the one that did the rounds on here a few years ago, the ground connector is different, and it says they are Sowter transformers which surprised me).

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/rfc-prototype-sut.215118/

So I need a MC cartridge to mount on my Ariston RD11/SME3009 (fixed headshell). I have a Yaqin valve stage, plus one in a Gate Audio pre I bought off here a couple of years ago, and a Croft Super Micro A is on its way!




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[walpurgis]

Does such a thing exist?

Not really. The cheaper you go, the less cheerful they become.

Your best bet is a Denon DL-103 as a starting point. It's give you a good idea of what MC's are about. Trouble is, your lowish mass SME is not suited to low compliance cartridges, as most MC's are. That means you'll need to add weight to the headshell to get it working right.

[Firebottle]

I was going to suggest a 103 as well.
I have used an offcut of lead flashing to make an extra mass for fitting in the headshell. It is very easy to work with and cut to size.

If you need a small piece give me a shout.

[steve-z]

Depends what your definition of cheap is ?
If you’ve got £200 or so to spend then the one to go for is the ATF7, or if a little less money is available its cheaper sibling the ATF2. The extra money gets you a nude elliptical whereas the cheaper one is shank mounted. I’ve been using an ATF7 for the last few months and have been very impressed with the SQ, it’s also a brilliant tracker that banishes IGD at 2g tracking weight, it’s a bargain imho.


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[Barry]

How much did you have in mind?

If you wan't to dip your toe into MC waters, and don't mind buying a low mileage used cartridge, then I would suggest either the Denon 103 or an Ortofon MC25FL. There is also the Sumiko 'Blue Point (Special)', but I think that might be a high-output MC.

[Lawrence001]

Hmm I was thinking £50 max for a s/h one.

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[steve-z]

Hmm I was thinking £50 max for a s/h one.

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You’re going to have a job finding something decent for double that price, I sold a low hours Denon DL110 a few months back and got £88 for it on ebay, about the going rate I think.


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[Lawrence001]

Probably should have done some research before jumping the gun!

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[Barry]

Hmm I was thinking £50 max for a s/h one.

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Hmmm - that's not a lot. I was lucky enough to buy a DL103C with 50 hours on the clock for £50 a few years ago, but these days I would expect to have to pay ~ £150, and about the same for a similarly used Ortofon MC25FL.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think you are going to be able to buy anything half decent for the sum you have in mind.

[struth]

Ortofon mc 25 was nice on my 3009. Some of the similar lower numbers might be got for around ur budget. Mc 20 maybe

[nickbaba]

I have a low hours Denon DL-110 high output MC you could have for £75. PM me if interested.

[Lawrence001]

I have a low hours Denon DL-110 high output MC you could have for £75. PM me if interested.

Thanks for the offer, would it work with the 1:10 SUT I've just bought though? If not I might still consider it as I'm not sure I can afford any of the options that will, and go nicely on my SME arm. Is it a good match for the 3009?

[Lawrence001]

I was going to suggest a 103 as well.
I have used an offcut of lead flashing to make an extra mass for fitting in the headshell. It is very easy to work with and cut to size.

If you need a small piece give me a shout.

Thanks for the offer I may well take you up on that.

[nickbaba]

Sorry that's beyond my level of knowledge but someone here can confirm or deny I'm sure.

[Lawrence001]

Hmmm - that's not a lot. I was lucky enough to buy a DL103C with 50 hours on the clock for £50 a few years ago, but these days I would expect to have to pay ~ £150, and about the same for a similarly used Ortofon MC25FL.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think you are going to be able to buy anything half decent for the sum you have in mind.Last time I looked into it was 10 years ago, have prices changed much since then?

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[walpurgis]

As the DL-110 is a high output type, it is intended to work into an MM input without any step-up. It may work with an SUT, but that should not be necessary and the output is likely to be high if you try that.

The DL-110 is pleasantly 'lively' and not the ultimate in refinement, but at the price it's OK and fun. The DL-103 turns in a more solid performance, but again is not the ultimate. MC's start getting more serious from about £500 upwards.

The DL-110 will also need mass added to the SME headshell.

[Barry]

Last time I looked into it was 10 years ago, have prices changed much since then?

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In a word, yes. I only know about Ortofons and the low output Denons, and I would be surprised if you could buy anything for £50 that didn't need re-tipping.

But have a look on eBay - you might be lucky. :)

[walpurgis]

There's a Denon DL-103EM on ebay for £130.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/denon-dl103EM/163035123449?hash=item25f5a68ef9:g:uNkAAOSwrjZa7wR 6

[Barry]

Snap it up! It's only had 2hrs use.

[Lawrence001]

It's a multiple of what I wanted to pay and from the above info it's suboptimal on my arm, otherwise I probably would. I think I'm stymied by rises in the prices of cartridges in recent years (possibly related to the vinyl resurgence?) plus an arm that's better with MM carts from the sound of it.

[walpurgis]

The SME will be fine with an MC as long as you use a bit of weight at the headshell. Ask Grant, he uses one.

You can buy or make weights.

[Barry]

It's a multiple of what I wanted to pay and from the above info it's suboptimal on my arm, otherwise I probably would. I think I'm stymied by rises in the prices of cartridges in recent years (possibly related to the vinyl resurgence?) plus an arm that's better with MM carts from the sound of it.

Price aside, it would work well in an SME 3009 with a heavy headshell, or use a lead shim as offered by Alan (Firebottle). I used mine in a heavy headshell + a lead weight in my SME 3009/II S2 arm.

[take5]

Hi, I have an " ORTOFON MC15 SUPER 2" cartridge you can have for 65 pounds including postage.

it looks in great condition. I remember it sounding good in a brief test, but I havent used it for a few years now, but would test again before sending it to you.

thanks

[walpurgis]

Price aside, it would work well in an SME 3009 with a heavy headshell, or use a lead shim as offered by Alan (Firebottle). I used mine in a heavy headshell + a lead weight in my SME 3009/II S2 arm.

It's the fixed headshell version Barry. But the weight will do the job.

[Barry]

It's the fixed headshell version Barry. But the weight will do the job.

Oops - wasn't paying attention. Yes, as long as the cartridge + headshell + lead shim can be counterbalanced all should be well.

[Lawrence001]

Hi, I have an " ORTOFON MC15 SUPER 2" cartridge you can have for 65 pounds including postage.

it looks in great condition. I remember it sounding good in a brief test, but I havent used it for a few years now, but would test again before sending it to you.

thanks

Thanks Brian are you not the first owner? I'd rather get one of known hours thanks all the same.

[Lawrence001]

The SME will be fine with an MC as long as you use a bit of weight at the headshell. Ask Grant, he uses one.

You can buy or make weights.

Is it still optimal to add weights to the arm, sounds to me like a bit of a compromise, ie light arms bring out the best in high compliance (MM) cartridges and vice versa. So I should either consider changing arms, or go for another MM cartridge. I'm starting to think the MM is the best way forward, I should have done some research.

[walpurgis]

I think you sound apprehensive. No need to be, I reckon you can make this work for you.

The Ortofon could be good. You would be unlikely to find one of known hours at the asking price, however, it is worth the price. Adding weight to an arm could be regarded as a compromise, but the other way to look at it, is to see this as a sutable adaptation to fit the circumstances.

[struth]

with the improved detachable you just put a heavier headshell on, so its not an issue as long as you can still balance it out . often set it up with bluetack as the weight till you see how much you need then weigh it and get a weight that size. 4/5 g probably

[Firebottle]

...... is to see this as a suitable adaptation to fit the circumstances.

Absolutely. I am running a ZYX on a standard Lenco 75 arm, not a combination that jumps to the forefront for compatibility.
With added weight at the headshell and counterweight it works amazingly well.

[Barry]

When people recommend a heavy arm for use with low compliance cartridges, that is because it is a good idea to get the product of the cartridge compliance (in compliance units) and the mass of the cartridge (plus fixings if appropriate) and the effective mass of the arm (all in grams) to be in the range 175 to 400, so the low frequency resonance lays in the range 8 - 12Hz.

If the arm has too low an effective mass, then adding mass at the headshell end essentially increases the effective mass of the arm by that amount

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?22373-Arm-cartridge-resonance

[Lawrence001]

Ok maybe I shouldn't worry too much, the other thing is I don't have any gauges, scales etc. What do I need to set it up properly? Bearing in mind this is also on an LP12 style TT that hasn't been checked over in at least 10 years!

[walpurgis]

You don't need scales with an SME. The arm has easily adjustable settings. You might need to do a bit of Googling or ask here if not sure.

You can print a cartridge alignment protractor off the internet. Or buy a cheap one from ebay.

If your turntable functions well at the moment. Why should it not continue to do so?

[Bigman80]

You can do it to a less accurate degree just using your eyes and ears but a tracking guage on eBay is about £5 so why guess at the setup

Cartridge alignment can be printed from Vinyl engine, matched to your specified arms geometry and that's free, just need to register on the site!
Ok maybe I shouldn't worry too much, the other thing is I don't have any gauges, scales etc. What do I need to set it up properly? Bearing in mind this is also on an LP12 style TT that hasn't been checked over in at least 10 years!

[Barry]

You also need to check the serial number of the SME 3009 (improved) arm. Early versions were designed to follow the Stephenson alignment, later ones had their geometry changed to follow the Bearwald alignment.

[Lawrence001]

I'm not sure it's improved. I haven't used the TT for several years, I left it with the platter on for a year then thought maybe that's bad and took it off for the rest, don't know what the right thing to do is. I did put some oil in the bearing though. A bit came out when the platter went back in, does that mean I put too much in? Maybe I should start a new thread...

[lilolee]

I have an Audio Technica AT-OC5 for £65 posted. Again not the original owner, but when I tested it all appeared good. I can include a 2gm headshell weight as well.

[Stryder5]

Hi,

I have an Ortofon Vivo Red with about 250 hrs on it, I believe it would work well with your SUT. £75 delivered.

https://www.ortofon.com/mc-vivo-red-p-672

[DiveDeepDog]

I'd give up before you start, a SUT you don't really know the specs for and a fiddy quid cart is never going to prove anything. There's a small chance of synergy, but it's a stab in the dark.

Better off spending £200 on a reasonable MM and learning how to set up your TT.

[Lawrence001]

Thanks all for the advice, I'm out with the kids, will do some research and give it some thought in the next day or two.