Waiting for the Caiman SEG

[Baffleport]

Hello everyone,

New at TAoS forum. Thanks to you guys, I bought my first Beresford dac, the bushmaster.
1,5 years ago the Caiman II and shortly after, I went for the Venom 3 GFU update.
All definitions were true; what a great piece of equipment.
Now I've ordered the Caiman SEG and the waiting game begins.
Anyone some suggestions what kind of music to play first?

Greetings
Cor

[AndrewR]

Oh, are you taking requests? 😆

Enjoy. Given past experience, Stan usually dispatched the order quickly. So maybe your postal service will be the point of any delay.

Andrew

[Baffleport]

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I ordered it today, I’m just very eager to listen to my favorite tracks through Caiman SEG.
I know Stan can do the impossible immediately, but miracles take a little longer.:)

[AndrewR]

Let us know your thoughts on the sound.

I am thinking of upgrading from Caiman II to SEG next week.

Andrew


Oh, don’t get me wrong, I ordered it today, I’m just very eager to listen to my favorite tracks through Caiman SEG.
I know Stan can do the impossible immediately, but miracles take a little longer.:)

[Baffleport]

I’ll certainly do that.



Let us know your thoughts on the sound.

I am thinking of upgrading from Caiman II to SEG next week.

Andrew

[StanleyB]

Let us know your thoughts on the sound.

I am thinking of upgrading from Caiman II to SEG next week.

Andrew
Don't forget to PM me for your AoS discount plus free delivery within the EU whilst we are still part of it :).

[AndrewR]

Don't forget to PM me for your AoS discount plus free delivery within the EU whilst we are still part of it :).

Thank you Stan! :)

Andrew

[twotone]

Just bought one of these too, can't wait to hear it.

Stan was excellent with advice and of course the discount thing.

Tony

[twotone]

The SEG arrived this morning and my goodness how good is this thing?

Amazing bass and a real analogue sound too, fantastic.

[Baffleport]

My SEG arrived yesterday (thanks Stan). First impressions: far more detailed sound, tight and punchy bass, same excellent ‘holographic sound’ experience as Caiman II.
I’ll write a more detailed review asap.

[AndrewR]

Thank you twotones and baffleport for your reviews.

Hoping to time my order for a UK Friday delivery. I think if I order early on Thursday then that will be fine.

Andrew

[Baffleport]

My SEG is here to stay. Yamaha amp switched to Pure Direct. First track, Don’t Misunderstand, Melody Gardot, Currency of Man. A lot is happening at the begin; her voice, an organ, cymbals, a bass line, swelling violins, SEG doesn’t even blink but does an outstanding job in clarity and detail. Heard things I’ve never heard before.
Second track, JK’s drum improvisation. Cymbals crisp and clear, toms and base drum excellent, you can hear kettle resonance. SEG delivers outstanding dynamics, this sounds better to me than Caiman II.
Die Tänzerin (the dancer), Ulla Meinecke. Great rhythm pattern and keyboard sound, surround experience with only two loudspeakers, a deep ‘holographic sounding’ track, Caiman SEG reveals it all.
Bruce Hornsby, Intersections, Song A, C and H. Great analog sounding piano pieces, I feel part of this intimate session, pure earcandy.
I can go on and on but I won’t. In a nutshell, SEG is Caiman II on steroids. The separation ability of individual instruments is what it’s all about, but also dynamics have been enormously improved compared with Caiman. No tone adjustments are needed here. For this SEG, you can draw a cheque.

[AndrewR]

Now I'm waiting for the Caiman SEG :D

Likely to arrive tomorrow.

Andrew

[Baffleport]

You won’t be disappointed. Please let us know your first impression.

Regards,
Cor.



Now I'm waiting for the Caiman SEG :D

Likely to arrive tomorrow.

Andrew

[AndrewR]

Well I have received the Caiman SEG (great service from Stan), but so far I am greatly preferring the Caiman II (unmodified)... Mainly from a tonal and tonal-balance perspective.

I'll give it another week to burn in - can I expect changes in this regard?

Andrew


You won’t be disappointed. Please let us know your first impression.

Regards,
Cor.

[twotone]

Well I have received the Caiman SEG (great service from Stan), but so far I am greatly preferring the Caiman II (unmodified)... Mainly from a tonal and tonal-balance perspective.

I'll give it another week to burn in - can I expect changes in this regard?

Andrew

Hi Andrew, there's four signature sounds if you aren't aware, they're very easy to implement and the instructions are pretty good.

I use the two blink one which is no three I believe.

[AndrewR]

Hi twotone, I have tried all four modes.

Andrew


Hi Andrew, there's four signature sounds if you aren't aware, they're very easy to implement and the instructions are pretty good.

I use the two blink one which is no three I believe.

[Baffleport]

Hello Andrew,

Can you clarify your tonal issues? Is it too bright, too much bass?
Otherwise, try to plug in your amplifier in a seperate socket, that improved my sound substantially.

Regards,
Cor.



Hi twotone, I have tried all four modes.

Andrew

[AndrewR]

Hi Baffleport,

Tonally the SEG I have is sounding brighter, with an electronic edge to it - which my Caiman II never exhibited (in fact the Caiman really does sound analogue). There is also less bass heft and decay than the Caiman II.

It could be a burn-in issue.

The 300B SET amplifiers I designed and built have a 50k ohm input impedance and a single set of input sockets to their potentiometers. So it won't be anything to do with switching, sockets and impedance matching.

There are some good points to the SEG (i.e. some additional background detail, treble responsiveness and spatial elements to the sound, maybe a little more tuneful lilt), but they are out-weighed by some tonal shortfalls. Hoping it is a burn-in situation, and that I can report back with an improvement by the end of the week.

Andrew

Andrew


Hello Andrew,

Can you clarify your tonal issues? Is it too bright, too much bass?
Otherwise, try to plug in your amplifier in a seperate socket, that improved my sound substantially.

Regards,
Cor.

[twotone]

Hi Baffleport,

Tonally the SEG I have is sounding brighter, with an electronic edge to it - which my Caiman II never exhibited (in fact the Caiman really does sound analogue). There is also less bass heft and decay than the Caiman II.

It could be a burn-in issue.

The 300B SET amplifiers I designed and built have a 50k ohm input impedance and a single set of input sockets to their potentiometers. So it won't be anything to do with switching, sockets and impedance matching.

There are some good points to the SEG (i.e. some additional background detail, treble responsiveness and spatial elements to the sound, maybe a little more tuneful lilt), but they are out-weighed by some tonal shortfalls. Hoping it is a burn-in situation, and that I can report back with an improvement by the end of the week.

Andrew

Andrew

That's weird Andrew, right out of the box the SEG I have sounded totally analogue, wonderful in fact, but I've nothing really compare it to DAC wise except a Maplins DAC that I was using for the TV but it sounds like vinyl to me if I compare it to my TT and it sounds about ten times better than FM but totally analogue compared to my FM tuner which is an Arcam T31 and it also sounds like the Arcam DVD27A that I'm using as a transport which is very analogue sounding if you listen to the Arcam with the inbuilt DAC, there isn't much in it though both the SEG and the Arcam are really analogue sounding so much so that when I first listened to the Arcam (only had it about two weeks) I thought about selling it on cause I'm not used to hearing CD sound like a record.

I've had mine for about ten days and I've not noticed any difference really just sounds the same as it did right out of the box and it's been on for most of that time.

[MasterTape]

I snagged a mint almost new one off of ebay the other day, it should arrive wednesday-thursday.

Had I heard about this AOS discount I prob would have gotten a new one but hey, if I like it I have my eye on a local used 15v S-Booster and might order a modded SEG new from Stan.

It's going head to head with a Rega Dac for the system spot. Even if it loses I want something for the PC, we shall see what happens.

[Bourneendboy]

I snagged a mint almost new one off of ebay the other day, it should arrive wednesday-thursday.

Had I heard about this AOS discount I prob would have gotten a new one but hey, if I like it I have my eye on a local used 15v S-Booster and might order a modded SEG new from Stan.

It's going head to head with a Rega Dac for the system spot. Even if it loses I want something for the PC, we shall see what happens.

I rate the SEG way above the Regardless - let us know how you get on.

[MasterTape]

Will do. Should have an early impression some time next week.

[StanleyB]

Hi Baffleport,

Tonally the SEG I have is sounding brighter, with an electronic edge to it - which my Caiman II never exhibited (in fact the Caiman really does sound analogue). There is also less bass heft and decay than the Caiman II.

First off, check that the Left and Right cables to the amp are also wired into the L and R sockets of the SEG. The sockets are the other way round to the Caiman MKII. So if you wire it the wrong way round the sound from your speakers will be swapped round and give you a different soundstage etc compared to the MKII.

[AndrewR]

First off, check that the Left and Right cables to the amp are also wired into the L and R sockets of the SEG. The sockets are the other way round to the Caiman MKII. So if you wire it the wrong way round the sound from your speakers will be swapped round and give you a different soundstage etc compared to the MKII.

Hi Stan, yes I noticed that, which I don’t mind. I’ll be back home soon after a few days away. Will have a listen for any change in the frequency balance from the further burn in.

Andrew

[MasterTape]

Mine arrived today and SEG vs Rega wasn't even a contest. I expected to have some sort of decision to make but nope, bloodbath in SEG's favour.

[Theadmans]

Mine arrived today and SEG vs Rega wasn't even a contest. I expected to have some sort of decision to make but nope, bloodbath in SEG's favour.

Just as a matter of interest Andreas - I assume your Rega is the older Rega DAC and not the DAC-R ?

Also what input do you use Co-Axial, Toslink or USB ?

I am just interested as I have a Creek CD50 CD Player / DAC. This uses the same Wolfson 8742 chips as the Rega DAC (in dual differential mode).

Also what Digital filter do you use on the Rega DAC. I favour the Minimum Apodizing filter on the Creek DAC.

I also have a SEG in another system - so any comparisons you can make would be interesting. How would you compare the tonal balance of the SEG to the Rega etc.

Oh and finally what Sound Signature setting do you use on the SEG - I use setting 3.

[MasterTape]

Hi Adam, happy to answer but keep in mind these are my "12 hours in" impressions.

It's the older DAC. With a power chord upgrade that reduced the noise floor (Supra SPC using a IEC to mickey mouse adapter).

Co-Axial, in both cases from an Allo Digione streamer with S-Booster linear power supply. It's a nice and clean source.

Filters the same in both instances.

As for differences,

You catch the bass difference every time in A/B. The SEG trades "bloat" for power, extension, definition. The bass is notably cleaner and tighter. Switch back to Rega and you spot the wet immediately.

The SEG has a resolution edge. I think it's mainly due to a lower noise floor that also shows up as better separation between parts of the mix.

The SEG is more airy. It's part extension, part just having a slightly lifted treble compared to the Rega I think.

I don't find the sound stage bigger, in direct A/B switching things stay put. But I think the L/R separation must be significantly better in the SEG. If you have a track with say a cowbell far right, it stays in the same spot but loses focus when direct switching from SEG to Rega. The same goes across the sound stage but I find those extreme placements make it more clear.

I don't think there is a lot of difference in overall character. Both are warm, analogue sounding Dacs. I just think the Rega now sounds wet, doesn't place instruments with the same confidence, isn't as sure footed, comes off as slightly fuzzy around the edges. Lower resolution. Something like that.

[Theadmans]

Hi Adam, happy to answer but keep in mind these are my "12 hours in" impressions.

It's the older DAC. With a power chord upgrade that reduced the noise floor (Supra SPC using a IEC to mickey mouse adapter).

Co-Axial, in both cases from an Allo Digione streamer with S-Booster linear power supply. It's a nice and clean source.

Filters the same in both instances.

As for differences,

You catch the bass difference every time in A/B. The SEG trades "bloat" for power, extension, definition. The bass is notably cleaner and tighter. Switch back to Rega and you spot the wet immediately.

The SEG has a resolution edge. I think it's mainly due to a lower noise floor that also shows up as better separation between parts of the mix.

The SEG is more airy. It's part extension, part just having a slightly lifted treble compared to the Rega I think.

I don't find the sound stage bigger, in direct A/B switching things stay put. But I think the L/R separation must be significantly better in the SEG. If you have a track with say a cowbell far right, it stays in the same spot but loses focus when direct switching from SEG to Rega. The same goes across the sound stage but I find those extreme placements make it more clear.

I don't think there is a lot of difference in overall character. Both are warm, analogue sounding Dacs. I just think the Rega now sounds wet, doesn't place instruments with the same confidence, isn't as sure footed, comes off as slightly fuzzy around the edges. Lower resolution. Something like that.


Many thanks for your detailed thoughts on this Andreas.

I originally ran the SEG in my lounge system with a Creek 50A amplifier.

My wife asked if it would be possible to have a Hi-Fi that looked less like a "Science Laboratory".

I bought the matching Creek 50CD DAC / CD Player for the lounge. At the same time I tucked my Rasperberry Pi / Wolfson Card combo behind the Creeks. I also bought a discreet Ifi iPower PSU for the Pi instead of the Chinese PSU with blazing LEDs I used before.

The SEG and Chinese 15v + 5v PSU I had originally used in the lounge - were shifted to an inferior bedroom system that uses an identical Rasperberry Pi / Wolfson Card combo.

My wife now only sees the two Creek Components in the lounge (which looks neat and tidy).

...but I keep wondering if I should try using the SEG back in the lounge - so your comments are useful. I suppose it is possible that the Creek 50CD DAC would outperform your Rega (even though they have identical Wolfson chips).

The other advantage of the Creek 50CD is that I was able to sell my excellent but fairly ugly 90s vintage Pioneer Stable Platter CD player. I mostly stream using the Pi these days - but occasionally I like to be able to play a CD.

I may have to switch the SEG back into the lounge system (the next time my wife is out !)

[AndrewR]

Adam,

Get that SEG back into the lounge and cover it with one of these.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WXmkhcKxfho/TwIE_Kz4_1I/AAAAAAAAB3A/2YOarAuurFA/s1600/Tea%2BCosy%2B2%2B%25281280x960%2529.jpg

Andrew

[Baffleport]

You want him to grab the Caiman by the pussy? :eek:



Adam,

Get that SEG back into the lounge and cover it with one of these.

Andrew

[MasterTape]

Many thanks for your detailed thoughts on this Andreas.

No problem, but the problem with early impressions is that they are subject to change.

I've since identified an annoying "fizziness" with the SEG that the Rega is completely free of with a smooth linear treble integration. It was vague with speakers but with headphones the difference is readily apparent.

Could be a power supply issue. I'll know on monday when an S-Booster arrives.

[Bourneendboy]

Have you tried mode 1? I wonder if this trait is due to the much favoured mode 3.

[MasterTape]

Have you tried mode 1? I wonder if this trait is due to the much favoured mode 3.

I listened carefully for this and I find it's a constant across all modes. I swapped cables back and forth as well, no issues there.

I'll see if I can find the kettle lead for the Rega and see if a power cable downgrade brings the two closer in this regard.

[Baffleport]

I've since identified an annoying "fizziness" with the SEG

I’ve experienced the same, some tracks sound with a shrill overtone. Especially some high resolution (flac) tracks and older (flac) recordings are revealing a razorsharp shrillness. Most mp3 (320kbps) tracks sound great. My first thoughts were that it has something to do with the quality of the concerning master-recordings. But really, most of the music played through SEG sounds absolutely awesome. The separation of instruments, the clarity of voices, the dynamics, the 34Hz basstone through my little Magnats which I can finally hear and feel. These benefits outweigh this little drawback, for me it’s audio heaven.

[twotone]

I’ve experienced the same, some tracks sound with a shrill overtone. Especially some high resolution (flac) tracks and older (flac) recordings are revealing a razorsharp shrillness. Most mp3 (320kbps) tracks sound great. My first thoughts were that it has something to do with the quality of the concerning master-recordings. But really, most of the music played through SEG sounds absolutely awesome. The separation of instruments, the clarity of voices, the dynamics, the 34Hz basstone through my little Magnats which I can finally hear and feel. These benefits outweigh this little drawback, for me it’s audio heaven.

Not heard this with my SEG but I'm not playing high quality files only the TV and a cheap Denon streamer but I was listening to Simple Minds live from Perth on BBC4 tonight and my goodness it's hard to believe how good the SEG is with a poor quality signal, don't think I've ever heard the TV sound signal sound so amazing.

I swear that Charlie Burchhill's and his guitar was playing right in front of me in my lounge, uncanny.

[Theadmans]

No problem, but the problem with early impressions is that they are subject to change.

I've since identified an annoying "fizziness" with the SEG that the Rega is completely free of with a smooth linear treble integration. It was vague with speakers but with headphones the difference is readily apparent.

Could be a power supply issue. I'll know on monday when an S-Booster arrives.

I'd like to compare my SEG with my Creek 50CD (twin Wolfson 8742 like your Rega) on this "fizziness" issue....

....what music were you playing when you noticed this. If you could quote a track on a particular CD I would be interested to give this a go.

[Baffleport]

....what music were you playing when you noticed this. If you could quote a track on a particular CD I would be interested to give this a go.

I know, I’m not MasterTape, but allow me to quote a track; Worn Down Piano, Mark and Clark Band, CD Double Take. Ripped with EAC to flac format. A lot of fizziness/shrillness is happening here, it’s hurting my ears even at low volume and it gives me a headache. And for the pranksters, no, it’s not due to the kind of music...

[Baffleport]

Not heard this with my SEG but I'm not playing high quality files only the TV and a cheap Denon streamer but I was listening to Simple Minds live from Perth on BBC4 tonight and my goodness it's hard to believe how good the SEG is with a poor quality signal, don't think I've ever heard the TV sound signal sound so amazing.

I swear that Charlie Burchhill's and his guitar was playing right in front of me in my lounge, uncanny.

Sounds very promising. But first I have to order a coax-in-to-toslink-out converter for my satbox, I’m using the SEG coax for my streamer already. I have stored a lot of BBC4 recordings from various music programmes and a lot from BBC proms. I’m very curious to hear The Last Ship concert from Sting, broadcasted approx. 1,5 year ago by the BBC. :)

[MasterTape]

I'd like to compare my SEG with my Creek 50CD (twin Wolfson 8742 like your Rega) on this "fizziness" issue....

....what music were you playing when you noticed this. If you could quote a track on a particular CD I would be interested to give this a go.

I want to be clear that this is through the Rega Brio which while slightly tamed compared to the old Brio-R is still capable of being a bit bright (via speakers and the HPA).

Since there is no analogue input on the back of the SEG I can't compare via its HPA that is miles ahead of that of the Brio unfortunately. But I will say that there is less excessive brightness out of the HPA of the SEG than what I'm getting from the Brio.

It's part "shrill overtones" as baffleport says, and I agree it can be headache inducing. Not blatantly obvious as much as just tiring. I'm used to no fatigue at all and this is a departure from that.

With "fizziness" I mean the sort of artifacting you can get in the sibilant region where suddenly there's a grain or fizz to the treble, often when percussion and sibilance collide. And again, I don't run into it often with the SEG's HPA that is smoother.

I like Joni Mitchell - Travelogue - Dream Flat Tires when assessing treble. Lot's of harmonic distortion in her vocal amplification, a potentially sharp ride cymbal throughout, dynamic peaks of brass and potential sibilance at full blast.

Overall I just wish the SEG was a bit more body and less outline. It's more textured than "tonal and musical" I think. But I also want to be clear that I think it's the better DAC, at 1/3 of the cost of the Rega, with a decent HPA thrown in. I just wish it was voiced a tiny bit sweeter.

[Theadmans]

I want to be clear that this is through the Rega Brio which while slightly tamed compared to the old Brio-R is still capable of being a bit bright (via speakers and the HPA).

Since there is no analogue input on the back of the SEG I can't compare via its HPA that is miles ahead of that of the Brio unfortunately. But I will say that there is less excessive brightness out of the HPA of the SEG than what I'm getting from the Brio.

It's part "shrill overtones" as baffleport says, and I agree it can be headache inducing. Not blatantly obvious as much as just tiring. I'm used to no fatigue at all and this is a departure from that.

With "fizziness" I mean the sort of artifacting you can get in the sibilant region where suddenly there's a grain or fizz to the treble, often when percussion and sibilance collide. And again, I don't run into it often with the SEG's HPA that is smoother.

I like Joni Mitchell - Travelogue - Dream Flat Tires when assessing treble. Lot's of harmonic distortion in her vocal amplification, a potentially sharp ride cymbal throughout, dynamic peaks of brass and potential sibilance at full blast.

Overall I just wish the SEG was a bit more body and less outline. It's more textured than "tonal and musical" I think. But I also want to be clear that I think it's the better DAC, at 1/3 of the cost of the Rega, with a decent HPA thrown in. I just wish it was voiced a tiny bit sweeter.

Yes I know what you mean about "body". Might seem a bit mad but I ran my SEG through a highly modified Musical Fidelity X10D tube buffer. This gave the sound more "body".

[MasterTape]

Today the 15v S-Booster arrived and I don't think it's a matter of diminished returns at all. The difference is rather :mental:

I'm not hearing new stuff here and there, there is information I haven't heard in every second of every track.

[Bourneendboy]

Today the 15v S-Booster arrived and I don't think it's a matter of diminished returns at all. The difference is rather :mental:

I'm not hearing new stuff here and there, there is information I haven't heard in every second of every track.

Has the S-Booster cured the fizziness?

[Baffleport]

I’m reluctant to pay for a power supply which costs more than the device it has to supply power for. But perhaps I’m just a greedy miser. :rolleyes:

[Bourneendboy]

I’m reluctant to pay for a power supply which costs more than the device it has to supply power for. But perhaps I’m just a greedy miser. :rolleyes:

It needn't, there are plenty of 15v Linear PSUs on Ebay.

[Baffleport]

It needn't, there are plenty of 15v Linear PSUs on Ebay.

The s-booster costs € 275,-/GBP 240.-

[Bourneendboy]

The s-boosters costs € 275,-/GBP 240.-

Speak with Nick at Longdog Audio:)

[Baffleport]

Speak with Nick at Longdog Audio:)

Thanks for the tip. But I’d rather wait for a dedicated psu from the master of dacs himself, Beresford (if reasonably priced).
I’ve read mixed reviews about the iFi iPower, too many people can’t notice any difference in sound experience.

[Bourneendboy]

Today the 15v S-Booster arrived and I don't think it's a matter of diminished returns at all. The difference is rather :mental:

I'm not hearing new stuff here and there, there is information I haven't heard in every second of every track.

Interesting, from your signature it looks like you have the S-Booster on the Digione rather than the SEG.

[MasterTape]

Interesting, from your signature it looks like you have the S-Booster on the Digione rather than the SEG.

Yeah I already had one. I was lucky to find the 5v one used as new at $150 after buying the Digione, and now the same situation for the 15v one when I bought the SEG. I couldn't pull the trigger on them new due to the cost, and I'm a sucker for being able to try and resell anyway.

No more complaints from me, I now have a pitch black back drop and smoothness top to bottom. The added detail via the HPA is mind boggling with the new lack of noise floor. You have clarity and definition many notes further down and up and going through familiar songs is information overload. Having a lot of fun tonight with my old knackered AKG K550's :)

[Bourneendboy]

Very nice!

[StanleyB]

The SEG is very much power supply dependent. The standard 12V SMPS can give an edgy sound in some systems, which is why I recommend that it should be upgraded with a linear 15V power supply. Several suitable cheap ones from China have been discussed.
There is also an SEG PSU enhancer on its way.

[twotone]

Yeah I already had one. I was lucky to find the 5v one used as new at $150 after buying the Digione, and now the same situation for the 15v one when I bought the SEG. I couldn't pull the trigger on them new due to the cost, and I'm a sucker for being able to try and resell anyway.

No more complaints from me, I now have a pitch black back drop and smoothness top to bottom. The added detail via the HPA is mind boggling with the new lack of noise floor. You have clarity and definition many notes further down and up and going through familiar songs is information overload. Having a lot of fun tonight with my old knackered AKG K550's :)

HPA?

[MasterTape]

HPA?

Headphone amp. My Rega + Harbeth combo was so far behind the unfettled headphone output out of the SEG that I sold them an hour after getting the SEG on clean power.

It was predetermined to some extent. I hate my room (noise from appliances, a ventilation drum, the road outside, room nodes) and look forward to getting back into stereo listening once I've moved into a more quiet and hopefully long term place.

[Theadmans]

BTW Andreas - I tried your Joni Mitchell track on my SEG and Creek CD50....

...a very good treble test track

Sounded mighty fine on both the SEG and Creek. No sign of "fizziness".

My SEG has a Chinese 15v Linear Power Supply - so maybe this is the reason.

I used Senheiser HD650s for the test.

I noticed your original speaker system with the Brio amp and Harbeths was conceptually similar to mine.

I have a Creek 50A Amp and AVI Neutron IV speakers. So we were both running small speakers (your Harbeths perhaps more upmarket than my AVIs)

Over the years I have been frustrated by my room too - which is small and square. A Victorian fireplace means I have to have the speakers on bookshelves either side of the fire. The AVIs give good mid-range and treble but obviously are very limited in the bass.

I have wondered about using a subwoofer but am worried that this would mess up the sound balance.

I have come to accept the limitations of the speaker system. But the speakers and headphones have different strengths. For now I will keep both and just enjoy the music.

[MasterTape]

Good to hear :) I'm fully on board with Stan that it was probably the switching mode power supply in combination with the Rega Brio that was the issue.

Yeah I'm fine with limitations and would gladly work with them if it wasn't for the fact that I only have 12 months left on my apartment lease and studies. I've been torn between just adding that little bit of extra furniture/treatment to get the decay down or postpone it for a longer term project in the near-ish future. It fell to the latter but it stung a bit when the new owner of the P3ESR's called today to tell me how gob smacked he was :rolleyes:

[twotone]

Good to hear :) I'm fully on board with Stan that it was probably the switching mode power supply in combination with the Rega Brio that was the issue.

Yeah I'm fine with limitations and would gladly work with them if it wasn't for the fact that I only have 12 months left on my apartment lease and studies. I've been torn between just adding that little bit of extra furniture/treatment to get the decay down or postpone it for a longer term project in the near-ish future. It fell to the latter but it stung a bit when the new owner of the P3ESR's called today to tell me how gob smacked he was :rolleyes:

I've owned P3ESR's and I'm amazed that they didn't get on with the SEG.

I'm currently running a pair of Spendor S3/5r2s which are about half the price of the Harbeths but easily as good as them, they sound amazing on the end of my SEG/Creek 5350SE combo.

Source is just a cheap Denon Streamer with internet radio and FM/AM tuner section but I do have a very good Arcam FM/AM FMJ tuner and Frankly I can't really tell the difference between the two sources however Radio 2 Extra and Radio 4 Extra via the Denon>SEG>CREEK is far superior to FM, just sounds the same (analogue) but much much better.

[twotone]

BTW Andreas - I tried your Joni Mitchell track on my SEG and Creek CD50....

...a very good treble test track

Sounded mighty fine on both the SEG and Creek. No sign of "fizziness".

My SEG has a Chinese 15v Linear Power Supply - so maybe this is the reason.

I used Senheiser HD650s for the test.

I noticed your original speaker system with the Brio amp and Harbeths was conceptually similar to mine.

I have a Creek 50A Amp and AVI Neutron IV speakers. So we were both running small speakers (your Harbeths perhaps more upmarket than my AVIs)

Over the years I have been frustrated by my room too - which is small and square. A Victorian fireplace means I have to have the speakers on bookshelves either side of the fire. The AVIs give good mid-range and treble but obviously are very limited in the bass.

I have wondered about using a subwoofer but am worried that this would mess up the sound balance.

I have come to accept the limitations of the speaker system. But the speakers and headphones have different strengths. For now I will keep both and just enjoy the music.

Do yourself a favour and try a pair of Spendor S3/5rs or S3/5r2s, I think you will be surprised at how much bass you will hear with the SEG in the system and those speakers, pretty sure the Harbeths P3ESRs would have been just as good though.

[MasterTape]

The Brio was the exposed and inferior component, no blame shall fall on the sublime P3's :)

The setup deserved a much better amp. I did try a Hegel Röst at home for a while earlier this spring that I didn't quite click with and sold on, but I would have loved to hear what its resolving power and the SEG could have done together.

And yeah the bass out of the P3's with the SEG was more than I ever would have guessed they had in them.

[Theadmans]

Yeah I remember that Stan said quite some time ago that was an issue with his DACs and Rega Brio amps.

Never had any problems with my Creek Amps - I have had a Creek 4330 and then more lately a Creek 50A.

[MasterTape]

P3 buyer wasn't happy and I obliged when he offered them back slightly cheaper. So trying around some more.

Found a well priced Elex-R and no issues whatsoever with any sound signature mode on the SEG. Silky smooth treble in comparison to both the old Brio-R and new Brio and a much more mature sound signature.

[Tmltech]

So are we saying the latest Caiman is not compatible with the Rega Brio 2017 and that Stan has agreed that this is the case? The reason I ask is I was just about to purchase a Caiman but have the latest Brio

[Theadmans]

So are we saying the latest Caiman is not compatible with the Rega Brio 2017 and that Stan has agreed that this is the case? The reason I ask is I was just about to purchase a Caiman but have the latest Brio

Fairly sure it was only the earlier version of the Brio....

...but would be good if Stan could chime in to confirm this.

[StanleyB]

So are we saying the latest Caiman is not compatible with the Rega Brio 2017 and that Stan has agreed that this is the case? The reason I ask is I was just about to purchase a Caiman but have the latest Brio
Who said any of that?

[Tmltech]

Hi Stan look at page 6 of this thread. Last post on the page here https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?58210-Waiting-for-the-Caiman-SEG/page6

[Tmltech]

Theadmans is his user name if that helps

[StanleyB]

Theadmans is his user name if that helps
Quite some time ago certainly wasn't 2017. The Brio first came out in 2007, which was quite some time ago. I have never heard from anyone with a 2017 Brio that they have had any issues. It's this kind reference to issues with equipment from a previous decade, which are then read to be issues with equipment that just came out that is of no help to anyone.

[Baffleport]

I have to revise my opinion with regard to the iFi iPower. Read a lot of (customer) reviews from people who didn’t notice much difference in sound. A while ago I found a review from a Chinese guy accompanied with his measurement results for various LP- and SMP-supplies, translated by Chris Connaker from Minneapolis.
After reading I decided to give it a go and buy me an iFi iPower. And oh boy, it gave an instant improvement in sound.
First thing I noticed was a wider soundstage and better dynamics. Caiman SEG has already excellent dynamics, but with iPower they become even better.
For me, the greatest advantage is that I am able now to play the music much louder while maintaining sound details. The shrill overtones and shrilness are gone, Worn Down Piano from Mark & Clark sounds much better without the shrilness, alas it’s just a badly engineered album.
However, it seems that iFi Power cuts some of the highs which make some recordings sound just brilliant. Well, you can’t have it all. I love my SEG and my Caiman mkII serves as my PC soundcard now. Flying a FSX DC3 never sounded better!

[Theadmans]

Quite some time ago certainly wasn't 2017. The Brio first came out in 2007, which was quite some time ago. I have never heard from anyone with a 2017 Brio that they have had any issues. It's this kind reference to issues with equipment from a previous decade, which are then read to be issues with equipment that just came out that is of no help to anyone.

Stan - your quote from this site:-

"I am only aware of the 2007 Brio with its 70K ohms input impedance causing loss of signal strength due to the incorrect impedance matching. That affected the Bushmaster and the Caiman MKII. Line inputs normally have an input impedance of 47K."

...my quote - "Fairly sure it was only the earlier version of the Brio....

...but would be good if Stan could chime in to confirm this."

I was fairly certain it was an old combination of Rega and Beresford products. Don't think I was too wide of the mark trying to remember old posts (at 51 my memory isn't what it once was).