View Full Version : Munich High End show 2018
Anyone going?
I will be going on the first 'visitor' day (11th May). Any rumours of any big announcements? I see PMC will announce something big. I'm looking forward to listening (and lusting after) some of the 'big' speakers Munich demonstrates. No doubt there will be lots of bling on show.
Spectral Morn
30-04-2018, 19:23
Anyone going?
I will be going on the first 'visitor' day (11th May). Any rumours of any big announcements? I see PMC will announce something big. I'm looking forward to listening (and lusting after) some of the 'big' speakers Munich demonstrates. No doubt there will be lots of bling on show.
Sadly not, would love to go to take photos and put a show report together.
Maybe I will post pictures as and when I see anything interesting whilst mooching around the show?
Will only be going for one day as the three of us who are going also have some serious bierkeller duties to undertake. :cool:
Just this minute booked it - literally.
I usually do a load of pics and videos - sometimes on this site.
4th visit - old hand:D
chris@panteg
01-05-2018, 08:44
Maybe I will post pictures as and when I see anything interesting whilst mooching around the show?
Will only be going for one day as the three of us who are going also have some serious bierkeller duties to undertake. :cool:
That sounds entirely honourable.
Served by delightful Münchner Mädchen.
Have a great time.
Beobloke
01-05-2018, 11:51
I'll be there on both Thursday and Friday.
I'll be there on both Thursday and Friday.We will have to wear red carnations and carry a rolled up umbrella [emoji299] so we can recognise each other. (:
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WESTLOWER
01-05-2018, 13:08
We will have to wear red carnations and carry a rolled up umbrella [emoji299] so we can recognise each other. (:
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Hay Ho Sailor!!
Lee Henley
02-05-2018, 14:41
I'm flying out on the Thursday and visiting the show on the Friday and the Saturday with my old mate Deggie who is a regular poster on the wam. We are flying back home on the Sunday afternoon so may pop into the HiFi delux show which is not too far from the main show. Last visited the Munich show in 2016, it is a fantastic show and Munich is a wonderful city to spend a few nights eating and drinking.
Hopefully meet up with a few guys on here perhaps
Lee
hifinutt
02-05-2018, 17:41
hope you and keith have a wonderful time , tell keith to listen especially to the verity audio otellos and feed back to me if poss
http://www.verityaudio.com/en/loudspeakers/main-line/otello
Spectral Morn
02-05-2018, 18:57
I wish I was going.
Would any of you who are going be happy to allow me to repost your photos as part of a show report for my online blog. Full credit given etc.
Anyone going?
I will be going on the first 'visitor' day (11th May). Any rumours of any big announcements? I see PMC will announce something big. I'm looking forward to listening (and lusting after) some of the 'big' speakers Munich demonstrates. No doubt there will be lots of bling on show.Check out the new Gobel Divin. Looks pretty awesome. Their Epoque Aeon based systems and subs have always impressed the hell out of me.
Both will feature this year, I believe.
Won’t go, can’t go, shouldn’t go, mustn’t go. It’ll cost me in the long run making me want things I don’t need. Ignorance is bliss (and kinder on the Wallet).
Won’t go, can’t go, shouldn’t go, mustn’t go. It’ll cost me in the long run making me want things I don’t need. Ignorance is bliss (and kinder on the Wallet).Robin, sounds like you want to go. Enjoy the show . :)
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Lee Henley
03-05-2018, 13:53
hope you and keith have a wonderful time , tell keith to listen especially to the verity audio otellos and feed back to me if poss
http://www.verityaudio.com/en/loudspeakers/main-line/otello
Will do Phil, are you not going along yourself mate?
hifinutt
04-05-2018, 16:52
was in bavaria only 3 weeks ago and chatting to residents of munich with the lovely family with whom i stayed . bit soon to go again but hope to go next year hopefully
as an aside , hoping to go to that little museum on your doorstep monday !!
Lee Henley
05-05-2018, 10:17
was in bavaria only 3 weeks ago and chatting to residents of munich with the lovely family with whom i stayed . bit soon to go again but hope to go next year hopefully
as an aside , hoping to go to that little museum on your doorstep monday !!
The museum is a great day out mate have a great time, I’ve been many times as you’d expect, I’m pretty sure you’ll get a years pass when you pay so you’ll be able to go back
This museum (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?51056-Munich-Hi-Fi-Show-2017/page6&highlight=munich+2017) is well worth a visit.
hifinutt
06-05-2018, 17:21
The museum is a great day out mate have a great time, I’ve been many times as you’d expect, I’m pretty sure you’ll get a years pass when you pay so you’ll be able to go back
thanks and i believe it was where they shot some episodes of peaky blinders
http://www.bclm.co.uk/about/film--tv-location/177.htm
There's some issue with the S8 from the airport to Marienplatz, with buses being involved.
Use the S1 is the advice. Or so I just read on WBF.
montesquieu
06-05-2018, 23:24
Can't believe it's a year. Pity can't make it this year, will plan for next I think.
My rule was once every three years, so it would be sufficiently different. I've just broken it simply because I felt like it. Soon see if it is a mistake.
I think the train thing was only this last weekend BTW.
Floyddroid
07-05-2018, 15:40
My rule was once every three years, so it would be sufficiently different. I've just broken it simply because I felt like it. Soon see if it is a mistake.
I feel the same about the wam show.
"Ein, Zwei, Drei, Vier...
Well I'm a Nazi baby, I'm a Nazi yes I am.
A Nazi Sergeant gonna fight for the Fatherland."
Joey Ramone - Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World, bless his soul.
Anyway, Dan's Relentless amp. Huge, not playing, but still huge. Mobile video.
https://youtu.be/5SQAwHWS5AM
My camera proper is shot, making funny noises and refusing to take pics. Media will be compromised for this year's report.
I should have bought another one... didn't realise it had become as bad as it has.
$250K I think I heard.
What a beast,looks like a V6 engine, expect to have flames shooting out the copper grills when it gets fired up!
walpurgis
11-05-2018, 19:54
It's hideous! :lol:
I think you need three. Mind you that's an odd number.
I think you need three. Mind you that's an odd number.
Are they not monoblocks?
Are they not monoblocks?Precisely.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApUl1xxOUo0ljB3Jtu5RE8QAXlfd
The immense and new Gobel Divin.
Great scale, effortless, easy. A bit too easy to be interesting? I'll give it some more attention tomorrow.
The decent camera has managed more pics than I thought. Just can't take videos without noise and re-booting it numerous times results in it behaving differently each time. Very schizo.
Can't post the better pics til I get back.
If you can't see the above pic I am not surprised. Can't get the embed code on my mobile. I will sort it later.
I like the idea that the speaker binding posts can be tightened with a 1/2" spanner. No doubt it will make KK tumescent with desire - that egregious Breuget looking power meter will do it!
If it was all black it might not look too bad, but copper/silver is IMO just too 'blingy' - Jules Verne'ish steam-punk. :sofa:
Is 'Relentless' really a good name for an amplifier? And why do all these new high end amps look like they were designed by Captain Nemo?
And the price! I could buy 4 houses in my street for that money. How can a case, a traffo and some resistors and caps cost the same as 4 houses? And don't give me this 'R&D is expensive' nonsense. The bloke's been making amps for 30 years, you can't tell me he a hasn't figured out all the angles already.
Maybe Nemo charges a fortune for his casework design? I suppose he does have a nuclear submarine to keep running so I can see why he might be expensive. But if that's the case get someone else to design it. I'm sure I could sketch out something equally as hideous and I'll only charge £300 plus VAT. Dan, are you listening? Dan....?
Managed to grab a few pictures of the show yesterday.
It was heaving and I reckon the number of people was up at least half compared to last year.
Some really lovely stuff. Lots of bling as well.
Here is a link to pictures I took yesterday.
https://1drv.ms/a/s!Arf68P30ulKQ-0A3rarGWoPg3u0L
Any of the pics can be used for non commercial use with no attribution to me.
Sorry I've got no time at the moment to embed any pictures here. Feel free to do so.
E
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Primalsea
12-05-2018, 08:01
A mere 5.5Kw powersupply no less! 6000w into 2 ohms. I can see where that would come in useful in any domestic environment :scratch:
George47
12-05-2018, 08:14
And I need some new amps for the 5.1 system. Now let me see that means the total cost will be.....Can anyone lend me £1.5M??:)
Great pics Edward. Thanks for sharing.
WESTLOWER
13-05-2018, 00:26
Great pics Edward. Some shiny things there!
I bet those horns had you drooling!
Show all over will post some thoughts tomorrow.
Two threads of the same name. My fault. Can a modster add the word report as the last word on this one? Cheers.
chris@panteg
13-05-2018, 15:05
And I need some new amps for the 5.1 system. Now let me see that means the total cost will be.....Can anyone lend me £1.5M??:)
It's actually 250,000 for a pair of monoblocks, so for a 5-1 system only 750,000 making it a true bargain:eyebrows:
Hm.
I'll raise you a pair of Gobel Divin at 450K Euros as a further Relentless assault on the bank A/C.
Forget the Vox Olympians. So last season.
George47
13-05-2018, 19:26
It's actually 250,000 for a pair of monoblocks, so for a 5-1 system only 750,000 making it a true bargain:eyebrows:
Good, I was getting worried there. Right where do I sign up???:lol:
jandl100
14-05-2018, 07:38
Mmmmm, yum.
I'd love a pair.
https://www.likehifi.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/dandagostino_relentless.jpg
There are folks who would pay the entry price for artwork, and that's what these are.
If they were the only amps available then I'd be bitching about the price.
But they aren't, so it's fine.
Mmmmm, yum.
I'd love a pair.
:doh: What are you like? :D
Bloody hideous, blingy, overpriced 'badge-fi' at it's best, built for superficial-minded key janglers!! As such, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole:nono:
Nice pics though, from a proper hi-fi show - and so thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:
Marco.
:doh: What are you like? :D
Bloody hideous, blingy, overpriced 'badge-fi' at it's best, built for superficial-minded key janglers!! As such, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole:nono:
Nice pics though, from a proper hi-fi show - and so thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:
Marco.
So....you don't like it Marco?
I must agree with you though.
jandl100
14-05-2018, 08:55
:doh: What are you like? :D
Bloody hideous, blingy, overpriced 'badge-fi' at it's best, built for superficial-minded key janglers!!
Hey, dat's me yo talkin' 'bout. :yay:
I'd bet it's a pretty decent amp, actually.
D'Aggie's stuff was often very good indeed, ime.
But yes, there's a hefty premium for the looks and the chassis and the blingy kudos.
He's obviously got a target market for his post-Krell gear, and it won't sell to them without the corresponding price ticket.
I don't see that there's necessarily a reason why superficial-minded key janglers won't enjoy music well presented.
walpurgis
14-05-2018, 09:01
Can you visualise a complete and complimentary system put together in matching 'taste'? It would look like a display in a juke box shop! :eek:
jandl100
14-05-2018, 09:04
Can you visualise a complete and complimentary system put together in matching 'taste'? It would look like a display in a juke box shop! :eek:
Wowzer.
This is getting close!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4cvQEjhCq7c/maxresdefault.jpg
Guess what?
I'd have it! :drool:
Hey, dat's me yo talkin' 'bout. :yay:
I'd bet it's a pretty decent amp, actually.
D'Aggie's stuff was often very good indeed, ime.
But yes, there's a hefty premium for the looks and the chassis and the blingy kudos.
He's obviously got a target market for his post-Krell gear, and it won't sell to them without the corresponding price ticket.
I don't see that there's necessarily a reason why superficial-minded key janglers won't enjoy music well presented.
Hehehe... Each to his or her own. I'd need a pair of shades and a sick bag whenever I entered the room, if I had to share space with such vulgar badge-fi. *PROPER* Hi-fi equipment should look 'purposeful', but sober with it, and akin to something out of a 1950s science lab, like 'dis:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/eR9VYk.jpg
:yesbruv: :exactly:
Anyway, I've never seen you as a superficial-minded key jangler, well at least not a key jangler anyway!:D;)
Marco.
I quite like vulgar bling but I still think they look quite nasty. They've been blinged in the wrong way.
Yup, nasty as in a bad example of 'brutal.' Give us your example of good 'vulgar bling', then... Showz a piccie:)
Basically, anything adorned with gold and/or shiny bits, just hurts my eyes and makes me think 'hi-fi jewellery' - or 'all fur and no knickers'...
Marco.
i quite like them, but the price is obscene quite frankly.
montesquieu
14-05-2018, 09:50
Wowzer.
This is getting close!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4cvQEjhCq7c/maxresdefault.jpg
Guess what?
I'd have it! :drool:
Perfect for belting out the theme to Dr Who ....
Primalsea
14-05-2018, 09:51
Wowzer.
This is getting close!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4cvQEjhCq7c/maxresdefault.jpg
Guess what?
I'd have it! :drool:
It does look like some sort of cyborg Triffid invasion...
i quite like them...
Jeez, I thought you had taste!:eek::doh:
;)
Marco.
WESTLOWER
14-05-2018, 09:57
It does look like some sort of cyborg Triffid invasion...
about as unattractive and uninviting as can get.
yuk
about as unattractive and uninviting as can get.
yuk
Yup, worse than a Latvian lady-boy in a turquoise tutu!
Marco.
Primalsea
14-05-2018, 10:04
Yup, worse than a Latvian lady-boy in a turquoise tutu!
Marco.
I’m just wondering if this was something you experienced in a bad dream or in real life?
Great pics Edward. Some shiny things there!
I bet those horns had you drooling!
You bet they did. In particular the Cessaro horns were out of this world in sheer finesse, impact, scale and musicality. Followed closely by the Avantgarde horns. In the Avantgarde room of course they had the massive Trio and Basshorn set. Alright if you are a multi-millionaire with a dedicated listening room. But the Avantgarde Zero 1 (playing in a different room in Munich) is super friendly and can easily be used in most rooms we are familiar with. And only a tenth price of the top of the range Avantgarde. Mind you with the top of the range Avantgarde you get the full basshorn experience - totally nuts.
But of course with horns you get that extremely fast articulate sound, precise and definite. No pre or post ringing - hard to describe but easy to experience.
I’m just wondering if this was something you experienced in a bad dream or in real life?
I'll leave you to ponder that one, dahling...:eyebrows:
Marco.
Jeez, I thought you had taste!:eek::doh:
;)
Marco.
amps are ok.. copper is fine...isnt it? :ner:
Yeah if they were all-copper, without that hideous 'faux-Rolex' dial on the front, which likely does hee-haw of any real use, they'd be ok!
Marco.
looks like a hairy chest medallion :eyebrows: wonder if i would suit one :eek:
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/-picture-id10186864
The picture' shown style looks as if based on or extracted from the film Forbidden Planet.
Some style, and even slightly appealing - until you integrate it with the inherent simplicity of analogue audio, its function and our knowledge of BS/jewellery problem.
Somehow to me it might be OK if it had no function.
jandl100
14-05-2018, 12:32
The picture' shown style looks as if based on or extracted from the film Forbidden Planet.
Some style, and even slightly appealing - until you integrate it with the inherent simplicity of analogue audio, its function and our knowledge of BS/jewellery problem.
:whistle:
http://i62.tinypic.com/24dn889.jpg
:D
If they had nicked the styling from 'Forbidden Planet' that would be okay. Good, even. But I don't remember anything in that film having blingy copper strips and a Jules Verne porthole thingy going on.
Much prefer the old (1990s) Krell styling. A high end power amp should look like a piece of laboratory equipment, not a piece of male jewellery. I'd be embarrassed to own them. I suppose if I was rich enough to buy them I'd be rich enough to have all the internals built into a more appropriate housing. Give the old cases to the tat man when he comes around.
jandl100
14-05-2018, 12:40
A high end power amp should look like a piece of laboratory equipment,
Why? :scratch:
Sounds daft to me.
Do you wear a lab coat when you settle down to listen?
Why? :scratch:
Sounds daft to me.
Do you wear a lab coat when you settle down to listen?
Of course. And safety goggles. Doesn't everyone? I draw the line at having a row of pens in the top pocket though.
I'd be embarrassed if someone came round and saw them, I really would. They might as well have 'I'm a stupidly rich arsehole with zero taste or self awareness' written all over them in indelible black marker pen.
jandl100
14-05-2018, 12:47
Well, it takes all sorts.
Hifi gear pretending to be lab gear seems more pretentious to me.
Sort of inverse snobbery.
If you don't want the D'Agostino gear feel free to give them to me.
walpurgis
14-05-2018, 12:52
I llke Martin's point of view. We could do with more "inverse snobbery" in Hi-Fi, I'm in favour of that. That's why I avoid buying silver or 'champagne' coloured equipment, black or grey is the way to go, matt finish even better. Makers like Line Magnetic lead the way. Good Hi-Fi should not look out of place in a boiler room!! So there!!! :eek:
http://i63.tinypic.com/b5ftdi.jpg
jandl100
14-05-2018, 12:55
I guess I think life should be fun. not drab.
You want drab? Fine, fillyer boots!
I think those D'Aggie amps look fun.
If they were £2k I'd be having a listen.
Do you wear a lab coat when you settle down to listen?
Doncha believe it - and nothing else either - and he looks HOT!:lol:
[Only kidding...maybe:eyebrows:;)]
Marco.
montesquieu
14-05-2018, 13:16
From my experience last year it was clear that Munich is no place for the faint of heart or those attached to Audio Note badger-bashed approaches to visual styling.
One of its the show's main functions is as a forum for relieving Europe's nouveau riche of dollops of their not very hard-earned ... I'm sure some people who buy this stuff don't particularly care what it sounds like so long as it's flash enough to match the rest of their designer decor and has a price tag with suitable bragging rights. Dan probably only needs to sell or two of these systems for every few dozen boring old Krells and that's another Ferrari in the garage.
George47
14-05-2018, 13:18
I llke Martin's point of view. We could do with more "inverse snobbery" in Hi-Fi, I'm in favour of that. That's why I avoid buying silver or 'champagne' coloured equipment, black or grey is the way to go, matt finish even better. Makers like Line Magnetic lead the way. Good Hi-Fi should not look out of place in a boiler room!! So there!!! :eek:
http://i63.tinypic.com/b5ftdi.jpg
More Power Igor!!!
I like aspirational items. Munich is the finest Hifi Show and I enjoy the coverage.
Am especially drooling over the new K-tell spartacus turntable (the one with triple counter rotational platters made from pure californium coated rubber)..and the new Gilson GLAMM.....oh! and the that cartridge made from tooth enamel with a (rocking) horse hair cantilever (dual mono)...only $69
:eek:
I guess I think life should be fun. not drab.
We're bang on the same page there [fun, for me, is what life's all about], *BUT*, in terms of hi-fi equipment, the "fun" should derive from how it sounds, and by the HUGE GRIN it puts on your chops, when listening to your favourite music; not how it looks!:nono:
Some might say my modified Mercedes looks somewhat 'drab' (it's all-black 'n' mean, and totally devoid of bling), but when you drive it, 'drab' it ain't:eyebrows:... And so it should be with hi-fi: the fun factor should come from the listening experience, when you 'take it for a spin' with your fav choons!!
:exactly::exactly:
Marco.
jandl100
14-05-2018, 13:56
I like it when it looks fun as well as sounds fun.
walpurgis
14-05-2018, 13:57
I like it when it looks fun as well.
I know a girl like that! :eyebrows:
Hi Tom,
One of its the show's main functions is as a forum for relieving Europe's nouveau riche of dollops of their not very hard-earned ... I'm sure some people who buy this stuff don't particularly care what it sounds like so long as it's flash enough to match the rest of their designer decor and has a price tag with suitable bragging rights.
Now if some crass idiot, with more money than sense, wants to spunk his 'hard-earned' on blingy badge-fi, which looks much better than it sounds, then that's entirely up to him (or her), but surely what you've written above defeats the whole point of what HIGH FIDELITY is supposed to be about, i.e. reproducing the closest thing to the original sound...??
And therefore, by definition, SOUND QUALITY should *always* matter more than looks??
Whilst no doubt going to Munich, with a few of the lads, is a veritable jolly jape, and tons of fun [guzzling gallons of beer, 'exploring' skanky fräuleins, whatever], but what you've just written is *precisely* why I've stopped going to hi-fi shows, as most of them are full of the kit you describe, aimed at the sort of materialistic tossers I'd take great steps to avoid in real life!!
The day when hi-fi shows return to catering for the genuine enthusiast, who cares more about what's under the hood of the equipment he uses, than what it's 'dressed in', is that day when I might go back.
Marco.
I like it when it looks fun as well as sounds fun.
Well, your idea of "fun", in that respect, is rather different from mine;)
"Fun" to me, in that respect, is when it looks a bit NUTS/BONKERS, as in the kit MEANS BUSINESS, in a rather naughty way - not when hi-fi is prettified to fuck.
Marco.
montesquieu
14-05-2018, 14:12
Hi Tom,
Now if some crass idiot, with more money than sense, wants to spunk his 'hard-earned' on blingy badge-fi, which looks much better than it sounds, then that's entirely up to him (or her), but surely what you've written above defeats the whole point of what HIGH FIDELITY is supposed to be about, i.e. reproducing the closest thing to the original sound...??
And therefore, by definition, SOUND QUALITY should *always* matter more than looks??
Whilst no doubt going to Munich, with a few of the lads, is a veritable jolly jape, and tons of fun [guzzling gallons of beer, 'exploring' skanky fräuleins, whatever], but what you've just written is *precisely* why I've stopped going to hi-fi shows, as most of them are full of the kit you describe, aimed at the sort of materialistic tossers I'd take great steps to avoid in real life!!
The day that hi-fi shows return to catering for the genuine enthusiast, who cares more about what's under the hood of the equipment he uses, than what it's 'dressed in', is that day when I might go back.
Marco.
Well it's not the **only** thing going on there by any means (the show is enormous after all) but I did find it a bit depressing going into room after room and finding the same formula - blinged up massive power amps (generally solid state), giant multi-driver, not very efficient but beautifully finished speakers, fed by some utterly so-so/boring as hell streaming solution (all playing either Europop or plinky plonk jazz). And a massive price tag of course.
The good thing is that other companies are there from Kondo to Thoress (your pic above) to Thomas Schick so there is some interesting stuff to see too.
Though the most enjoyable thing at the slow last year for me was a life fortepiano concert/demonstration and I can't even remember the name of the manufacturer that hosted it.
jandl100
14-05-2018, 14:20
For me there is a pride of ownership thing about stuff that looks really cool.
A recent minor purchase of mine was a Topping VX1 DAC/headphone amp.
I was a bit jaw dropped at the exquisite delicate precision of the front fascia of this fairly cheap piece of gear.
The photo (the best I could find) doesn't do it justice, but you can start to get the idea from it.
https://tainghe.com.vn/media/product/1366_topping_vx1.jpg
And, yes, it sounds good, too. :)
For me there is a pride of ownership thing about stuff that looks really cool.
A recent minor purchase of mine was a Topping VX1 DAC/headphone amp.
I was a bit jaw dropped at the exquisite delicate precision of the front fascia of this fairly cheap piece of gear.
The photo (the best I could find) doesn't do it justice, but you can start to get the idea from it.
https://tainghe.com.vn/media/product/1366_topping_vx1.jpg
And, yes, it sounds good, too. :)
That's tasteful and it doesn't shout 'I've got loads of money'. Now if those D'Agustino monoblocks had that same styling, then no problem.
I've got nothing against aspirational products and no problem with rich people spending money, so this is nothing to do with 'inverse snobbery'. It's more about good taste and restraint.
That's tasteful and it doesn't shout 'I've got loads of money'. Now if those D'Agustino monoblocks had that same styling, then no problem.
I've got nothing against aspirational products and no problem with rich people spending money, so this is nothing to do with 'inverse snobbery'. It's more about good taste and restraint.
I have one of these topping VX1's, beautifully made, sounds good as well.
That's tasteful and it doesn't shout 'I've got loads of money'. Now if those D'Agustino monoblocks had that same styling, then no problem.
I've got nothing against aspirational products and no problem with rich people spending money, so this is nothing to do with 'inverse snobbery'. It's more about good taste and restraint.
+1. Exactamundo! :thumbsup:
Marco.
Hi Jonathan,
Long time no see! Hope you're well? :wave::)
Marco.
Speaking of bling I did a very blingy thing at the show in Munich on Friday. Passing by the Marantz room I spotted none other than Ken Ishiwata (he of KI Signature fame).
So I grabbed a Marantz pamphlet and a pen and went up to him and introduced myself. And then grabbed his signature (well that is what he is famous for! No?)
http://imapnet.com/aos/ken_ishiwata_800.jpg
In answer to my question he said he was finding the show 'interesting'. I then did my doumo arigatou and bowing bit and wondered off with my loot.
So where should I start the bidding for this signature item? £1,000? :)
Hi Jonathan,
Long time no see! Hope you're well? :wave::)
Marco.
hi marco, I'm well thank you and hope to post more here....always enjoy this forum...now I'm off to listen to some musique :)
Lee Henley
14-05-2018, 22:12
Had a great few days at the show in Munich, some lovely rooms to be heard and some down right crap but that’s HiFi shows for you, for me the Thoress room was excellent, the tonal balance was fantastic
If you ever get a chance to visit the show then it’s a must, this was my second time and shall be returning next year all being well, it’s such a wonderful experience
chris@panteg
14-05-2018, 22:22
https://youtu.be/sOw6n2OZiQ4
Michael Fremer interview with Leif Johannson, very interesting.
I llke Martin's point of view. We could do with more "inverse snobbery" in Hi-Fi, I'm in favour of that. That's why I avoid buying silver or 'champagne' coloured equipment, black or grey is the way to go, matt finish even better. Makers like Line Magnetic lead the way. Good Hi-Fi should not look out of place in a boiler room!! So there!!! :eek:
http://i63.tinypic.com/b5ftdi.jpg
Those look like something Flash Gordon would be familiar with.
I pretty well agree with Marco's stance on taste and function.
To me Quad had a pretty good balance on style and quality, and I think a solidly built piece, with good engineering, and the money ordinated into the right places is fine if done with subtlety and subdued styling.
I like "laboratory" looking audio gear, so would love to try one of these in hammer-finish grey:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a8/f8/e7/a8f8e7700c5b1ff3b4075533a3b56782.jpg
hi marco, I'm well thank you and hope to post more here....always enjoy this forum...now I'm off to listen to some musique :)
Excellent, Jonathan. I always enjoy reading your posts, especially the witty ones you're renowned for, lol!:D
Marco.
I like "laboratory" looking audio gear, so would love to try one of these in hammer-finish grey:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a8/f8/e7/a8f8e7700c5b1ff3b4075533a3b56782.jpg
Me too - and the EMT, in that respect, is perfect. It's also 'born' for the right reasons: to act as a highly effective (superbly engineered) tool, for use by audio enthusiasts and professionals, not some blinged-up pretentious trinket, to appeal to hi-fi jewellery fetishists.
Marco.
I pretty well agree with Marco's stance on taste and function.
To me Quad had a pretty good balance on style and quality, and I think a solidly built piece, with good engineering, and the money ordinated into the right places is fine if done with subtlety and subdued styling.
Yup, Quad is another good example of what I'm referring to, particularly the vintage stuff.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying we should all be filling our systems with boring 'drab looking' boxes, as I do enjoy some of the more tasteful examples of 'quirky engineering', just not when it results in (as Macca has mentioned) an outcome of 'look at me, Mr Loadsamoney, and my flash system'.
Quite simply, there are tasteful, clever, ways of spending money on hi-fi, just as there are on houses and how one furnishes and decorates them... Just look at the homes of your average 'footballer's wife', for examples of how NOT to do it! :doh:
And the same applies with hi-fi equipment... So if you don't want your system having that tasteless, rather unsophisticated and pretentious 'footballer's wife' look, then BANISH THE BLING! :exactly:
Marco.
This is really an old phenomenon, the classic middle class looking down on the up and coming nouveau-riche, the latter exhibiting bad taste in the opinion of the former.
We have had a take-over of the bling because people's sensibilities and sensitivities have been violated by aggressive marketing and forceful advertising designed to make us feel inadequate if we do not have the latest and supposedly best things. We are instructed to buy things or do things.
In this environment it is hardly surprising that subtlety and subdued quality get missed, this also applying to everyday communication.
Lee Henley
15-05-2018, 11:23
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/823/40316968830_21a4be5ef8_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24qF1df)DSCF1150 (https://flic.kr/p/24qF1df) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Back to the vintage industrial look, this time the WE speaker, believe it or not but this speaker made for me the best sound of the show. The guy who did the talk, Joe Roberts from Silbatone reckoned that these speakers were from around 1947 and were very rare and had a street price of $220,000 !!
Lee Henley
15-05-2018, 11:27
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/979/42077841582_8d2f8c91da_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/277gWkh)DSCF1119 (https://flic.kr/p/277gWkh) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
The western electric speakers in use at the show this year, they had a switch box which enabled them to play the track through each set of speakers so that you could hear the difference in the sound. The ones on the far left were used for recording studio's as a monitor, they also used them in the celings of department stores by all accounts. I didnt like them that much
This is really an old phenomenon, the classic middle class looking down on the up and coming nouveau-riche, the latter exhibiting bad taste in the opinion of the former.
What makes you think I'm middle class?;)
We have had a take-over of the bling because people's sensibilities and sensitivities have been violated by aggressive marketing and forceful advertising designed to make us feel inadequate if we do not have the latest and supposedly best things. We are instructed to buy things or do things.
In this environment it is hardly surprising that subtlety and subdued quality get missed, this also applying to everyday communication.
I completely agree, Dennis, *but* you don't have to be a victim of it. You can choose to be a free-thinker (like me) by divorcing yourself as far as possible from that type of commercial nonsense/materialistic brainwashing, and instead be your own man.
Therefore, I have no such feelings of inadequacy, as I'm in charge of who I am and what I do, which in terms of hi-fi (since, after all, this is a hi-fi forum), is reflected in the type of equipment I use, none of which is mainstream (has ever been commercially advertised) or copied by me from someone else.
Marco [forever a free-thinker].
Back to the vintage industrial look, this time the WE speaker, believe it or not but this speaker made for me the best sound of the show. The guy who did the talk, Joe Roberts from Silbatone reckoned that these speakers were from around 1947 and were very rare and had a street price of $220,000 !!
Ha - I do believe it, Lee, and I'm not at all surprised, because I know from experience how speakers like that can sound!
Although the price, if true, is just crazy. The unsurprising thing though is that they produced the best sound of the show, which is often how I feel returning from hi-fi shows, and listening to my 1965 Tannoys...;)
Progress, eh? :rolleyes:
Marco.
Bass Slap
15-05-2018, 14:23
Those look like something Flash Gordon would be familiar with.
Goodness, what beauty!
Reminds me of the SHF gear we used in the RN in the 60's to track Russian radar devices (or anybodies radar devices)
Submarines were particularly difficult because they would stay under the surface but very close and just poke their radar aerials up to do a couple of 360deg sweeps or less to maybe check their bearings and then disappear deep sharpish.
The radar transmission gave off a sound at various frequencies which we'd then use to identify the vessel or aircraft. Submarines very hard to find due to the short Aerial Rotation Periods.
bit of useless info for ya!
Slow on this because I got stuck in Germany - flight cancelled due to lightning at the airport, got put up in the Novatel Schwabing which was nice, as I had a business class ticket, therefore the room was appropriate to my elevated status as a human being:D For some reason when I booked the flight they gave me a free business class upgrade.
Bad boy bass coverage for this and the next few posts.
In many ways this was my favourite room, with a great host. Past 4pm, he'd play anything that wasn't classical, Diana Krall, or any other typical audiophile bullshit. I award him 3,981,231 brownie points because of that statement.
He was simply asking for requests, and honouring them with TIDAL. TRINNOV gear was being used in here, but given the copious amounts of bass, I wonder what the settings really were.
Anyway, I asked for Etherwood's "Being By Letting Go" and the bass literally ripped with scale and weight. The picture doesn't show the other sub on the other side of the room. The host loved it, as well as the third track. I encourage anyone to check it out if you like electronic music.
The speakers are a bit like a short Apogee like ribbon plus a big bass cone. Lots of resolution from that implementation, if a little bit edgy, but not enough to really spoil it from being entertaining, involving and generally great fun at high volume, and we were playing loud.
The host came from Wales, and "just likes loud music". I'm with him:) How he got to demoing German speakers I don't know.
Anyway, the speakers are Bohne (http://bohne-audio.com/de/international-information-english/).
There was no audiophile pretence in this room. Just bloody loud near dance club like levels, and if you like going to dance clubs, live DJs, Orbital live etc etc then these speakers fit the bill for trying to satisfy that sort of experience at home.
Thoroughly enjoyable.
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Primalsea
15-05-2018, 16:06
:whistle:
http://i62.tinypic.com/24dn889.jpg
:D
Bloody hell! Where do the Umpa Lumpas poor the chocolate in? I presume this contraption makes chocolate records with golden sprinkles, why else would it be so complicated?
Primalsea
15-05-2018, 16:15
I llke Martin's point of view. We could do with more "inverse snobbery" in Hi-Fi, I'm in favour of that. That's why I avoid buying silver or 'champagne' coloured equipment, black or grey is the way to go, matt finish even better. Makers like Line Magnetic lead the way. Good Hi-Fi should not look out of place in a boiler room!! So there!!! :eek:
http://i63.tinypic.com/b5ftdi.jpg
I look at these and one side of my brains sees my head nodding and thinking WOW! The other side shaking and asking just WHY! I think if I owned these I would never end up listening to anything properly and would just be tweaking the dials and obsessing over where thr needles are pointing. I think when you get to gear like this it is so far beyond just listening and enjoying music.
Trios plus three bad boy bass horns. But they've gone for a vile chrome finish on them, which also featured on Omegas etc they had on display.
On Sunday they had a DJ playing through it, with DJ style TTs.
I'm not really sure why but I wasn't really that struck with this set up. Bass horn visual revulsion? Maybe. Or a mood thing. Or bass horns in the corner for the first time I've heard them that way not working so well? It is most definitely a great loudspeaker.
The second year of hearing three basshorns in a row, I'm really not sure you want three. Just one works extremely well, without the bass becoming more prominent than you would really want it to be. Bass emanates from higher than the Trio horns, and I reckon that's a bit weird. Maybe two would be the best setup by that logic. Still, if the punter will pay for it...:D
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Gobel Divin.
In there multiple times, trying to assess it. It does do bad boy bass, but the only reason I know that is I got lucky and went in there when it was playing Yello loud. For the most part listening levels were quite tame.
The overall problem with this speaker is too relaxed and refined. You sit there thinking it scores well on so many levels, apart from excitement. It is just too refined, I think.
Playing the inevitable Nils Lofgren's "Keith Don't Go" was a real key to understanding this. On an involving system, the steel string guitar sounds like a steel string guitar, with the edginess and bite that the instrument possesses. The drive units in this speaker just hid much of the character of a real steel string. I play one, I know.
Owner's with the 450K Euros required, will, I think, end up having to crank it to get some excitement injection. Unless you like pipe and slippers with an afternoon snooze.
Best way I can describe it excitement wise would be to compare the speakers at medium to low listening levels with all the dynamics of a modern Quad.
Yello loud though - really not too bad:)
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Some top Kronos gear in use.
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Pondering on a change and Duo Mezzo's n SET or perhaps MBL111F and go with the New Triode switchable PP ARC REf160's.
Close up of the refined sounding Divin HF driver. Not a great pic, just making a point.
The irony is that the panel used in the cheaper Aeon Ref, from the same stable, I have no doubt, would capture the edge and bite of Lofgren's guitar with far greater success.
The Aeon Ref was, I think, severely compromised by the room it was in, but more on that later.
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walpurgis
15-05-2018, 16:59
That's a pleated diaphragm. I wonder if it's an AMT type design?
Pondering on a change and Duo Mezzo's n SET or perhaps MBL111F and go with the New Triode switchable PP ARC REf160's.
Completely ignored MBL this year. The room was always packed every time I tried to the point of pointlessness in attempting come up with any valid assessment.
Never heard the Mezzo. Loads of Duos, just never the Mezzo but the reports are good, At least the ones I have heard by word of mouth.
That's a pleated diaphragm. I wonder if it's an AMT type design?
I thought that, that's why I had a good look at it because it sounds nothing like the AMTs in my Mark and Daniels.
The photo above is compressed and makes it look like a pleated diaphragm, The reality is that it isn't. The vertical aberrations are actually poles of metal in front of a flat panel. Need to find out what it really is...
More bad boy... but then it has to be in a room with the ridiculous looking sub.
Bass was copious, and hand on cab asserted that indeed the cab was resonating liberally in all directions. However, this seemed to work somehow - it must have been good sympathetic resonance for the material being played at the time. I'm not sure the bouncy cabs would really resonate well across all sorts of material. But hey, good bass subjectively when I was in there.
The mad looking sub wasn't playing BTW when I was in there.
Appears to be Ascendo home cinema (http://aia-cinema.com/products/) stuff, but no screen in the room! Accustic Arts and Clearaudio h/w in use.
Let's face it, not good lookers.
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Bass covered.
So what was this year's WE/G.I.P./Silbatone offering like?
Well, that's kind of debatable. A sceptic could say it is all a bit of on con. And he'd have some very real grounds for doing that.
Why do I say that? Well, the rich Korean gent that very kindly brings this fantastic kit along every year is always banding about early dates for these pieces of loudspeaker which are probably very true.
But what he isn't telling you is that these old WE classics are really running thoroughly modern G.I.P. compression and dynamic drivers. There's a strong argument to say "that's cheating", but you have to be realistic as the original drivers didn't have infinite lifespans.
Anyway, the result is very good indeed on the unquestionably sympathetic material played. And it is quite narrowband in the sense that no loud bass driven electronica or reggae ever hits the play list. I preferred the bigger black metallic horns you see in the picture by a margin once I heard what all three speakers in use could do.
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Monos in use in Silbatone room. 101Ds I hear you say. And you'd be wrong. Actually, they're VT-2. Earlier than 101D, and therefore cooler and rarer. Not VT-1, though, which was even earlier than VT-2.
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On the subject of WE, here's some static display shots building up to the release of the 300B and pre/power amps. Pretty sure these are prototypes. Original looks at any rate. Whether you like it or not.:D;)
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Allnic H-7000 top of the range phono stage and a new Origin Live TT.
The Allnic seems extraordinarily flexible and it's all on the fly changeable as far as I understand it. I'd like their top of the range line level preamp to play with.
The Allnic looks a lot better in the flesh. The man from Origin Live said he'd very much like one:) He's also a little peeved a Hi-Fi reviewer who shall remain unnamed swapped from an OL deck to a Rega:(
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walpurgis
15-05-2018, 18:54
I like the look of the Allnic. More 'built' than styled.
One of my fave pieces of the show. The Air Tight ATM-3211 - good for 120 Watts. Unfortunately, they are also good for £48,500!!!
Sounding really good even with the Chinese 211s, I'd love these in my system for proper evaluation. The designer was there, enjoying the system, and apparently powers his Apogee's with an ATM-2, which I used to own. I think he needs to use these, the extra power on tap would definitely help. He's wheelchair bound and very senior in years these days. I felt somewhat honoured to speak to him and enjoy his creation with him. He was really enjoying the Wolf Von Langa speakers I caught Thomas Meyer using in a show in Bath UK a few years ago. So was I. Tiny things that were sounding way better than the last time I heard them on the end of the 3211s.
This system did an amazing Elvis Costello "I want you" on 12 inch 45 rpm vinyl. Just brilliant. They were playing some fine music in here and consequently it was one of my fave rooms.
The shot that included the Wolf Von Langa speakers didn't come out at all well, unfortunately.
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The phono stage. Not seen or heard one before so I surmise it is new(ish).
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I like the look of the Allnic. More 'built' than styled.
Very well put, Geoff! I totally agree. Indeed, much like the earlier EMT, it's another example of what I'd define as 'proper' hi-fi equipment [function much more important than form]:)
Marco.
A new Quad. So new it is actually a prototype, designed by the chap in the shot below, who I had a chat with. I didn't learn that much apart from some talk about frame bracing and the position of the bass, mid and treble drivers.
Can you handle the blue?
Nice chap to talk to, but when I showed him a shot of my Apogees, he didn't know what they were, and thought they were ESLs. Kinda worrying?:scratch:
Out in September, maybe. It's pretty big and tall.
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Can you handle the blue?
:no: It looks like an ironing board cover!
Marco.
Talking of ESLs, some blue Finals.:scratch:
Could be a new trend...:D
This'd all be coming in a lot quicker but OneDrive is being a pain in terms of response time.
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brian2957
15-05-2018, 19:51
Excellent pictures as ever Justin . Thanks for taking the time to post them :)
Thanks Brian. I'm missing loads as the camera kept failing on me. It is truly screwed,
It is a shame because some stuff I wanted to talk about just isn't on the memory card. Bummer.
Anyway, Pass Labs latest Minion amps as I call them. Well, I've never really liked any Pass Lab amp, but these Minion design (TM) seem to sound really quite good. Both an integrated and the power amps.
The Paradigm speakers worked well on the end of them. The rep was trying to impress a group of trade guys and cranked it. Result.
OK I give up OneDrive has become intolerable. More tomoz.
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Excellent pictures as ever Justin . Thanks for taking the time to post them :)
Yeah, +1. Justers is da man (and also Edward) :cool:
Marco.
brian2957
15-05-2018, 20:56
Aye , thanks Edward :)
Very grateful for all the work in sending the pictures, thank you.
However deeply disturbing to me, has Hi-Fi lost its way? Aren't we supposed to choose Hi-Fi on the basis of its sound, and not on its looks?
Loads of material, colours, 3D shapes - bling to me, and the quad ironing boards, what are they thinking?
(Peter Walker turns in grave.)
Maybe this is a reflection of the decay of modern society, the way societies rise, become decadent, and then collapse.
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 06:36
Ha - I do believe it, Lee, and I'm not at all surprised, because I know from experience how speakers like that can sound!
Although the price, if true, is just crazy. The unsurprising thing though is that they produced the best sound of the show, which is often how I feel returning from hi-fi shows, and listening to my 1965 Tannoys...;)
Progress, eh? :rolleyes:
Marco.
Yes mate they were truly remarkable and as for progress from what I heard at the show there is really that much, if your happy with your 1965 Tannoys mate then stick with them :)
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 06:40
The Total Dac room was making some decent noises when I popped in, I made the mistake of asking the guy the price of his fruit bowl looking speakers, 40,000 Euro was the response, oh well time to move on :(
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/968/41390298154_306f4d5d02_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/264w6Cf)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/264w6Cf) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 06:44
I spent quite a bit of time in the Thoress room, the turntable whos name eludes me sported the 35,000 Euro tonearm, which according to the guy in side was a bit of a pain in the arse to use so they switched the SME V12. I must admit the sound coming from this system was my second favourite of the show, I believe the speakers were around the 13,000 Euro mark, but given that quite a few of the systems on display were meg bucks prices this in comparison was excellent. Hats off to the guys at Thoress
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/827/41390298204_527de7cc1b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/264w6D7)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/264w6D7) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 06:50
Something different, the guys who have relaunched the Western Electric name were selling amplifiers, WE 300B remake tubes and speaker wire. The guy informed me that the wire was made using the original formula and was available from the WE website.
A couple of years back the original WE16GA wire was in demand when an article written by Jeff day for Positive feedback hit the streets. I managed to get hold of some myself to try out and liked it eventually moving onto the Duelund WE clone. I may be tempted to try some of the thicker gauge myself in the near future.
http://www.westernelectric.com/products-ks13385.html
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/970/42077811732_8a8213f0f3_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/277gMsC)DSCF1130 (https://flic.kr/p/277gMsC) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 06:55
The enthusiastic guy in the PMC room was telling me about their new £50,000 prototype speakers with technology built into the sides to prevent vibration, the system comprised of mainly Bryston electronics. I wasn't that impressed to be honest, the sound left me wanting for more especially given the price point of the speakers.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/960/41223194135_2f5c7ac7d4_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25NKDqt)DSCF1141 (https://flic.kr/p/25NKDqt) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 07:03
No shortage of turntables at Munich!
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https://farm1.staticflickr.com/953/40315686430_788122f212_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24qyqZU)DSCF1015 (https://flic.kr/p/24qyqZU) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/969/42076414072_61360d5657_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2779BZ3)DSCF1014 (https://flic.kr/p/2779BZ3) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 07:17
There were quite a few Lenco PTP's in use throughout the show, Peter from PTP was in attendance and I managed to have a chat with him, he's quite an enthusiastic guy and very knowledgeable as youd expect. He had his new PTP creation on show and must admit it sounded quite nice although the asking prices was over 6000 euro. Unfortunately I didn't get a picture of it but managed to get one of the original design.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/946/42064281812_0813b58e2f_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2765ru9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2765ru9) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
One of the rooms that used the original PTP was the Line Magnetic room the valve amplifier manufacturer from China. They were playing the Line Magnetic CD player when i went in, they guy changed over to the PTP for a demo and I was quite impressed with what I heard, definate improvement over the CD player to say the least!
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/962/40315681870_550c23e481_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24qypDh)DSCF1001 (https://flic.kr/p/24qypDh) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
The other room using the PTP was Thomas Meyer, they had 2 in use, one specially adapted to play 78rpm records which they played for us, first time Id heard 78's playing in a long time and it was quite nice to hear them. The sound in this room for me was another one that I liked quite alot, dont be fooled by the small speakers made by Azzolina Audio, they projected an image that was remarkable to say the least, very extended with great height and scale.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/955/27252654447_8a9a2be8ef_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HwdYGx)DSCF1039 (https://flic.kr/p/HwdYGx) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
I spent quite a bit of time in the Thoress room, the turntable whos name eludes me sported the 35,000 Euro tonearm, which according to the guy in side was a bit of a pain in the arse to use so they switched the SME V12. I must admit the sound coming from this system was my second favourite of the show, I believe the speakers were around the 13,000 Euro mark, but given that quite a few of the systems on display were meg bucks prices this in comparison was excellent. Hats off to the guys at Thoress
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/827/41390298204_527de7cc1b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/264w6D7)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/264w6D7) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Now why doesn't the good sound you heard there not surprise me?;)
I have to say that if I were to sell my amps and start again, and go for 'new high-end', Thöress would likely fit the bill. Nice intimate/cosy looking room too, which for me is essential for listening to music, as it puts you in a relaxed frame of mind, and infinitely more preferable to the starkly lit, wide-open spaces of some of the other rooms shown.
Marco.
Lee there's plenty of original age annealed WE speaker cable on eBay for less than the new stuff will cost I am sure.
Some might be fake, but a lot probably isn't. That's the issue.
Beobloke
16-05-2018, 08:43
The enthusiastic guy in the PMC room was telling me about their new £50,000 prototype speakers with technology built into the sides to prevent vibration, the system comprised of mainly Bryston electronics. I wasn't that impressed to be honest, the sound left me wanting for more especially given the price point of the speakers.
Funny, I thought these were the best sounding thing at the show by a country mile. Then again, I am allergic to most horn loudspeakers, so this does wipe about two thirds of the rooms out of contention for me!
I should say, an honourable exception here is Ocean Way Audio. He seems to make his horn-loaded speakers sound exactly like everyone else says other horn loaded speakers sound, but which I’ve never found to be the case! The ‘Montereys’ he was playing sounded wonderful.
As an aside, one thing I love about seeing other peoples pictures, is spotting things I didn’t see, and wondering how I missed them!
Funny, I thought these were the best sounding thing at the show by a country mile. Then again, I am allergic to most horn loudspeakers, so this does wipe about two thirds of the rooms out of contention for me!
I should say, an honourable exception here is Ocean Way Audio. He seems to make his horn-loaded speakers sound exactly like everyone else says other horn loaded speakers sound, but which I’ve never found to be the case! The ‘Montereys’ he was playing sounded wonderful.
As an aside, one thing I love about seeing other peoples pictures, is spotting things I didn’t see, and wondering how I missed them!
I'll second I thought they were good. They almost made the bad boy bass category, but not quite.
Pretty good scale, tight controlled bass, good clarity, spacious but not over bloated imagery, able to do loud without stress etc.
The problem? Price, and they look absolutely bloody dreadful!
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/962/40315681870_550c23e481_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24qypDh)DSCF1001 (https://flic.kr/p/24qypDh) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee, do you know what that silver box is, with the VU-meters, to the right of the turntable being played? I love the styling!:)
Marco.
Talking of bad boy bass (again!), there's one I missed.
The JBL4367 (https://jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/everest-dd67000.html). The ones to the far left and right.
Copious bass playing Walking On The Moon by DubXanne (obvious Police cover), and on stacks of bass on other material too. Great party speakers, able to handle high SPL without issues. Spacious sound staging and imagery reasonably precise. Very good at what they are obviously designed to do. Much, much, much better than the JBL Everest DD6700 sounded again with Mark Levinson amps which I have heard twice.
How the hell can that be the case? Definitely seemed so to me and each time I went in they were definitely getting more attention from punters than the DD6700 ever did.
Really curious.
EDIT: Just looked up the price - about £12K. In the scheme of things at Munich that's pretty good value, but only if you get off on the parameters that make this speaker interesting i.e. bass and high SPL. Reggae and high impact electronic lovers should check them out if poss.
They are only really going to work in a large room. Anything less will get over pressurised and will need half a tonne of acoustic traps.
https://gkzfaa.db.files.1drv.com/y4mSW7f9NNmd9nc7j36a0rhD2CHG5KtR3H1eIb0rMp4LzRKzil PGVv_-X9b2jvqCS9CK6qv0SajDZnhvqcABB9D5NAwJSpTKBKH1Dq5_QB iJ32PCihrcpD-s3iKw9t49PNIXc0VhgYf1upUDvk8zK3VPE-FespxzNwm_PnqxiRtChEVsnvfyy9VcKxW2-nV5It-GcpRIHZvxQL5VbAdLRJ90Q?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 09:23
Visiting a hi-fi show these days is nothing like I remember from 30 years ago. Back then most of the products on display were well within the budget of the average working man. Turntables like the Linn LP12 were at the top end of the price range but still a "real world" product. But look at some of the turntables on display at Munich! Yes, things move on, but it's clear to see why hi-fi is no longer for the masses. Who buys this stuff? It all looks extremely impressive but also looks out of reach for most people. Most of the systems pictured here wouldn't even fit in my house!
I think maybe the clue is in the title of the show mate - Munich HiEnd :)
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 09:28
Lee, do you know what that silver box is, with the VU-meters, to the right of the turntable being played? I love the styling!:)
Marco.
Im pretty sure it was the pre amp but couldnt be 100% on that
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 09:30
Funny, I thought these were the best sounding thing at the show by a country mile. Then again, I am allergic to most horn loudspeakers, so this does wipe about two thirds of the rooms out of contention for me!
I should say, an honourable exception here is Ocean Way Audio. He seems to make his horn-loaded speakers sound exactly like everyone else says other horn loaded speakers sound, but which I’ve never found to be the case! The ‘Montereys’ he was playing sounded wonderful.
As an aside, one thing I love about seeing other peoples pictures, is spotting things I didn’t see, and wondering how I missed them!
I guess Im not a fan of PMC speakers and the house sound they project they just did nothing for me at all
I guess Im not a fan of PMC speakers and the house sound they project they just did nothing for me at all
It's hi-fi and opinions vary and always will. I thought the little horns in the Thomas Meyer room sucked, so did Kedar, and he wanted to like them;)
Primalsea
16-05-2018, 09:34
Talking of bad boy bass (again!), there's one I missed.
The JBL4367 (https://jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/everest-dd67000.html). The ones to the far left and right.
Copious bass playing Walking On The Moon by DubXanne (obvious Police cover), and on stacks of bass on other material too. Great party speakers, able to handle high SPL without issues. Spacious sound staging and imagery reasonably precise. Very good at what they are obviously designed to do. Much, much, much better than the JBL Everest DD6700 sounded again with Mark Levinson amps which I have heard twice.
How the hell can that be the case? Definitely seemed so to me and each time I went in they were definitely getting more attention from punters than the DD6700 ever did.
Really curious.
EDIT: Just looked up the price - about £12K. In the scheme of things at Munich that's pretty good value, but only if you get off on the parameters that make this speaker interesting i.e. bass and high SPL. Reggae and high impact electronic lovers should check them out if poss.
They are only really going to work in a large room. Anything less will get over pressurised and will need half a tonne of acoustic traps.
https://gkzfaa.db.files.1drv.com/y4mSW7f9NNmd9nc7j36a0rhD2CHG5KtR3H1eIb0rMp4LzRKzil PGVv_-X9b2jvqCS9CK6qv0SajDZnhvqcABB9D5NAwJSpTKBKH1Dq5_QB iJ32PCihrcpD-s3iKw9t49PNIXc0VhgYf1upUDvk8zK3VPE-FespxzNwm_PnqxiRtChEVsnvfyy9VcKxW2-nV5It-GcpRIHZvxQL5VbAdLRJ90Q?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
I heard the JBL monitors at a show last year and thought that they were great.
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 09:45
It's hi-fi and opinions vary and always will. I thought the little horns in the Thomas Meyer room sucked, so did Kedar, and he wanted to like them;)
Exactly mate we all hear things different and all have our own tastes, besides Ked is hard to please at times although we did agree for once on Silbatone Western Electric room :)
montesquieu
16-05-2018, 09:46
I spent quite a bit of time in the Thoress room, the turntable whos name eludes me sported the 35,000 Euro tonearm, which according to the guy in side was a bit of a pain in the arse to use so they switched the SME V12. I must admit the sound coming from this system was my second favourite of the show, I believe the speakers were around the 13,000 Euro mark, but given that quite a few of the systems on display were meg bucks prices this in comparison was excellent. Hats off to the guys at Thoress
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/827/41390298204_527de7cc1b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/264w6D7)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/264w6D7) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Interesting ... prior to last year's show I had had a few exchanges with Reinhard Thoress and spent quite a bit of time in his room over two visits in my time there. I arrived pretty interested in his phono preamp and was pondering buying one. However after the show I didn't pursue things, mainly as while it was a reasonable enough sound in the room and the preamps and amps looked fantastic, the overall impact wasn't all that special and well short of what I was getting at home already with Thorens/Tannoys/Radford/EAR 912.
I blamed the speakers which I suspected weren't up to the standard of the rest of the kit. I think they were 'only' 6,000 Euros last year though so perhaps for the additional 7,000 Euros he's improved them. To be fair it is hard to make decent speakers that work well with 9w 300b single ended amps which is what he is selling on the amplification front, though 'even' for 6,000 Euros my expectations were rather higher than what was on offer.
Anyway I left absolutely decided not to spend 8,000 Euros or whatever it is on a new Thoress phono pre (cool looking though they may be) though I would take the opportunity to try to hear one at home and maybe even snap one up on a 'catch and release' basis if one appeared on the used market. In the early years of the company they use to be a LOT cheaper so occasionally they come up around 2500-3000 Euros second hand.
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 09:48
Try and get these in the front room of the house and hope that the wife approves of them :), they did sound very nice though when I went in the room
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/905/28250671918_af067d150f_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3q5wj)DSCF1044 (https://flic.kr/p/K3q5wj) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/973/42123233461_e8e1416a06_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bhzKT)DSCF1045 (https://flic.kr/p/27bhzKT) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 09:54
I did enjoy the Tune Audio room this year, for me in the expensive room category (speakers were 220,000 Euro alone) they did perform very well
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/829/28250854208_4b07136c92_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3r1Hf)DSCF1057 (https://flic.kr/p/K3r1Hf) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/953/28250849888_d7f54aa8b5_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3qZqL)DSCF1058 (https://flic.kr/p/K3qZqL) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Talking of Thomas Mayer, his stuff was very colourful this year.
https://tbr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4m9tsv48PXJOxR7F97-PEHx3xxiHUnbOOnr48lEVhpX5YTjbYxYY55wbuq4qySv_S9jWb a7efXdm0QCqPEtCjLxXabsyV9u0R_Bes424XyHuvlTZIT2sbP9 cTbRR5xuVGRaZJAGXa7b05J-a-XG7O8I_bPb--Xt8A9XvMSy0i7cGmlPEwB7K5t3DDkGQob87eSXTbLOZDztjB81 5veDMY3Qg?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://rbojja.db.files.1drv.com/y4mBahlowM1ISZgYtEnooqfEjaYDcQBy0l-IdJehwcUOeQMAWJi5bI__iVoqzf5DtC1Khhnd6b1JtzqapU4o0-yT0GsWJ4Tb6nuVl9JvAOM2nVW5xZKZGF5myeVtEPoDUz9KjSTM CIUiWuhUTbxXag4vMkb3LxHTl50N9CwkdDYJkZua6eSEcV6YCP XIPS0TOcsbSHAjlrXHtn5fj49nJqW4g?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
Note he has turned the internal structure of the 211 and 845 ELROGS upside down so they don't light from the bottom. This was always going to be a bit of an issue as heat rises, and excessive output from the bottom of the tube was causing problems in some installations, especially where the tubes were recessed to any extent into the amplifier internals.:doh:
Think I read the original ELROG chap/designer is now dead?
https://rrojja.db.files.1drv.com/y4mBOEo0z-7TABu_jBwY2pe_m6zGxiIrnGayYCPpy4i4EeoYQb3LpxWQ17rq fn_lEdiZAt_ls5BaF-lqQ6WgklKroyCyXELFqLNNZJ6wxN-IJoKKkWdQJv7ZzoD03oUYWREXmjEjEwJudaOWXcCkMPH53uNHM bfweEErpAeaS27OahEXZQ8-4flWqa1Oywx83SrCG2Q0XMdO_Zp_OW3rZLXsw?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://shr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4moziRZbIFbIeaeweDQ2DsPYDVhcZgfnC67gmasnh2M1FwVQ-o1ONsVuj6NeF13eeVFcW_EnprfrfhjP8Zel4Rl3XqrYkBUv-62PU7OpRHawBifzzjXevfN2bJQip2123koHKpPkeJY98ngfEZU 1LjsdIvLOhrMQ-jRubCvCg9XlXzw7ygKxt38Kokr1sLS6E7q6BiOYidq2eVmhyb3 WKIOw?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://sxr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4mrwh0XjzUpjctkk3QA0iZQ-l3Escd5gT2VlnJYoZEIMDYUtlyOGMN9nARyvFp6vo9oPhl5Kot 0JpQ1y5aC3RPMsvX7iSWxQGymXDLpcQsPqVhb18UK30AyJo40u mXBEY_9xrYA5ORZkCpstWBhDfItakPB18V-HCE3YeWZmySj2RXmW6Mo-WeMKOMyfJP95yIzmimiSIQAwjDjQ5NEsUe3A?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://sbr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4mdLfbLBkAUVkowNpT6ST5dHoi4kOc6PaUm9JWHkdtghXgRvs xvEjZ4EpLLyXJ6A044Afrs3G-ux2NLHR9cwJF_kazeUTVS2Adcl39OfwH8TTF97Zy3LMvBCSYRu v4_D2bHLjtrS6KU0WW46xKLCvNWlNEn74nRj8BDo_yhREGNx97 F4YT-LP5VTZ5jQMcXYiaJscS-wNjfQw0bSfV3tP93w?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 09:56
Talking of Thomas Meyer, his stuff was very colourful this year.
https://tbr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4m9tsv48PXJOxR7F97-PEHx3xxiHUnbOOnr48lEVhpX5YTjbYxYY55wbuq4qySv_S9jWb a7efXdm0QCqPEtCjLxXabsyV9u0R_Bes424XyHuvlTZIT2sbP9 cTbRR5xuVGRaZJAGXa7b05J-a-XG7O8I_bPb--Xt8A9XvMSy0i7cGmlPEwB7K5t3DDkGQob87eSXTbLOZDztjB81 5veDMY3Qg?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://rbojja.db.files.1drv.com/y4mBahlowM1ISZgYtEnooqfEjaYDcQBy0l-IdJehwcUOeQMAWJi5bI__iVoqzf5DtC1Khhnd6b1JtzqapU4o0-yT0GsWJ4Tb6nuVl9JvAOM2nVW5xZKZGF5myeVtEPoDUz9KjSTM CIUiWuhUTbxXag4vMkb3LxHTl50N9CwkdDYJkZua6eSEcV6YCP XIPS0TOcsbSHAjlrXHtn5fj49nJqW4g?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
Note he has turned the internal structure of the 211 and 845 ELROGS upside down so they don't light from the bottom. This was always going to be a bit of an issue as heat rises, and excessive output from the bottom of the tube was causing problems in some installations, especially where the tubes were recessed to any extent into the amplifier internals.:doh:
Think I read the original ELROG chap/designer is now dead?
https://rrojja.db.files.1drv.com/y4mBOEo0z-7TABu_jBwY2pe_m6zGxiIrnGayYCPpy4i4EeoYQb3LpxWQ17rq fn_lEdiZAt_ls5BaF-lqQ6WgklKroyCyXELFqLNNZJ6wxN-IJoKKkWdQJv7ZzoD03oUYWREXmjEjEwJudaOWXcCkMPH53uNHM bfweEErpAeaS27OahEXZQ8-4flWqa1Oywx83SrCG2Q0XMdO_Zp_OW3rZLXsw?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://shr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4moziRZbIFbIeaeweDQ2DsPYDVhcZgfnC67gmasnh2M1FwVQ-o1ONsVuj6NeF13eeVFcW_EnprfrfhjP8Zel4Rl3XqrYkBUv-62PU7OpRHawBifzzjXevfN2bJQip2123koHKpPkeJY98ngfEZU 1LjsdIvLOhrMQ-jRubCvCg9XlXzw7ygKxt38Kokr1sLS6E7q6BiOYidq2eVmhyb3 WKIOw?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://sxr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4mrwh0XjzUpjctkk3QA0iZQ-l3Escd5gT2VlnJYoZEIMDYUtlyOGMN9nARyvFp6vo9oPhl5Kot 0JpQ1y5aC3RPMsvX7iSWxQGymXDLpcQsPqVhb18UK30AyJo40u mXBEY_9xrYA5ORZkCpstWBhDfItakPB18V-HCE3YeWZmySj2RXmW6Mo-WeMKOMyfJP95yIzmimiSIQAwjDjQ5NEsUe3A?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
https://sbr06q.db.files.1drv.com/y4mdLfbLBkAUVkowNpT6ST5dHoi4kOc6PaUm9JWHkdtghXgRvs xvEjZ4EpLLyXJ6A044Afrs3G-ux2NLHR9cwJF_kazeUTVS2Adcl39OfwH8TTF97Zy3LMvBCSYRu v4_D2bHLjtrS6KU0WW46xKLCvNWlNEn74nRj8BDo_yhREGNx97 F4YT-LP5VTZ5jQMcXYiaJscS-wNjfQw0bSfV3tP93w?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
I dont suppose you managed to get a shot of the PTP's he was using?
Im pretty sure it was the pre amp but couldnt be 100% on that
Cheers. The preamp, however, for which manufacturer?
Marco.
The Black Adder
16-05-2018, 10:08
Love the look of the Thomas Mayer stuff. Really well made too.
Always wondered what price point his kit start from. Obviously he was auditioning his top line kit.
Lee, do you know what that silver box is, with the VU-meters, to the right of the turntable being played? I love the styling!:)
Marco.
I would have thought you would be more interested in the "big" valve amplifier behind the turntable. :lol: ;)
I would have thought you would be more interested in the "big" valve amplifier behind the turntable. :lol: ;)
Lol yes, but that's taken as a given! I also rather like the purposeful but 'quietly understated' look of the item I've mentioned. Besides, I dig illuminated VU-meters just as much as I do 'glowing bottles'!:D
Marco.
Love the look of the Thomas Mayer stuff. Really well made too.
Always wondered what price point his kit start from. Obviously he was auditioning his top line kit.Yeah I like it looks wise. Tops Thoress in my opinion, which is cool but not that well finished/made from an exterior case point of view. As you can see from the prices in the photos you have to pay for that.
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 10:44
Cheers. The preamp, however, for which manufacturer?
Marco.
Hi Marco
I believe it was Supravox mate
The room was supplied by these people
https://www.bc-diffusion.com/
Ah I see. Cheers:)
Marco.
Tops Thoress in my opinion, which is cool but not that well finished/made from an exterior case point of view.
Interesting... What makes you say that, mate? Perhaps he's spent more on what's 'under the hood', where it matters, than on pointless 4-inch thick billets of solid aluminium?;)
Marco
Interesting... What makes you say that, mate? Perhaps he's spent more on what's 'under the hood', where it matters, than on pointless 4-inch thick billets of solid aluminium?;)
MarcoWhat I said makes me say that!:)
Sorry, I don't follow you... Please elaborate. Why, in your opinion, is the exterior case "not that well finished"? :)
Marco.
montesquieu
16-05-2018, 11:14
Try and get these in the front room of the house and hope that the wife approves of them :), they did sound very nice though when I went in the room
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/905/28250671918_af067d150f_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3q5wj)DSCF1044 (https://flic.kr/p/K3q5wj) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/973/42123233461_e8e1416a06_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bhzKT)DSCF1045 (https://flic.kr/p/27bhzKT) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Fantastic colour ... urinal ivory ... :lol:
Fantastic colour ... urinal ivory ... :lol:
I'm afraid, IMO, most open horn-loaded speakers have a 'lavatory' appearance, regardless of colour (pun intended).
I dont suppose you managed to get a shot of the PTP's he was using?
No sorry Lee.
Fantastic colour ... urinal ivory ... :lol:
The drive unit in those is excellent. 3,900 Euros for one BD3 (https://aer-loudspeakers.com/aer-breitbandchassis-bd/). But there's a BD4 which is supposed to be even better. Not sure which they were actually running, despite talking to the designer for a while.
No crossover meant seriously good mid range / treble integration. Excellent clarity. Slightly odd time delayed bass to 32Hz in that design. I would say this drive unit is right up there with the world's best within its capabilities. The big horn just tries to get some bass out of it, with some but not total success.
If you are after bass weight and dynamics go elsewhere. But if you fancy making some expensive DIY speakers and your priority isn't bass, try and hear a pair.
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 11:45
Some more Urinal lavatory coloured horns from stein :)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/962/42123338571_70f440dfe6_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bi818)DSCF1052 (https://flic.kr/p/27bi818) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 11:46
No sorry Lee.
Ok mate, I will have a look on Leo's myhiend site
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 11:48
here's one for you Marco
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/944/42123352271_ff7de2195b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bic5k)DSCF1048 (https://flic.kr/p/27bic5k) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Beobloke
16-05-2018, 11:49
Some more Urinal lavatory coloured horns from stein :)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/962/42123338571_70f440dfe6_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bi818)DSCF1052 (https://flic.kr/p/27bi818) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
I was amused by the subwoofer towers behind the main speakers. Clearly the SIXTEEN 10" drivers in the main speakers just arent up to producing real bass! :D
Sorry, I don't follow you... Please elaborate. Why, in your opinion, is the exterior case "not that well finished"? :)
Marco.
Black Adder and I were simply talking about appearance. Nothing else. What's inside is irrelevant when the topic under discussion was aesthetics. In my opinion the design and finish is superior to Thoress kit. If you prefer the later, and think it is just as well finished, that's cool with me.;)
Anodised aluminium is a pain, though. One tiny scratch sticks out like a sore thumb and will wreck the whole unit's appearance.
I was amused by the subwoofer towers behind the main speakers. Clearly the SIXTEEN 10" drivers in the main speakers just arent up to producing real bass! :D
I actually agree. You never seem to hear any in their room. Perhaps because when you play material with bass loud the horn integration becomes an issue? I've heard hints of that being the case in the two years I have heard these.
Who knows. You'd expect they'd be trying to sell them on the strength of the bass towers, but no.
Lee Henley
16-05-2018, 12:02
Something different, over 100k a pair mind. I did have a quick listen to these they had them setup on one of the stands in the bottom Halle. In all honesty they weren't that special IMHO, I guess they'd appeal to the footballers and their wives :)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/907/42122634611_235b344fe8_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bevJT)DSCF1005 (https://flic.kr/p/27bevJT) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/904/28250045728_0ac4fe8def_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3mSnW)DSCF1004 (https://flic.kr/p/K3mSnW) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
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In my opinion the design and finish is superior to Thoress kit. If you prefer the later, and think it is just as well finished, that's cool with me.;)
We're at cross purposes here, mate. In your opinion, the design and finish of *what* is superior to Thoress kit? I missed that... I'm not saying that I prefer it over what you're referring to, because I don't know what it is you're referring to!:eyebrows:
What would help is re-posting a picture of the stuff you think is finished better, and one of the Thoress kit in question. Then I'll be able to look at both, side by side, and offer you my opinion on the matter :cool:
Marco.
We're at cross purposes here, mate. In your opinion, the design and finish of *what* is superior to Thoress kit? I missed that... I'm not saying that I prefer it over what you're referring to, because I don't know what it is you're referring to!:eyebrows:
What would help is re-posting a picture of the stuff you think is finished better, and one of the Thoress kit in question. Then I'll be able to look at both, side by side, and offer you my opinion on the matter :cool:
Marco.
I'm not sure I'm that interested Marco.
Why don't you do it?
How can I when i don't know what the superior finished kit is you're referring to! :doh:
You can be a funny bugger sometimes... Anyway, we'll leave it there.
Marco.
How can I when i don't know what the superior finished kit is you're referring to! :doh:
You can be a funny bugger sometimes... Anyway, we'll leave it there.
Marco.
Vice versa! I don't think it is worth the effort on either part, so yeah let's just leave it.;)
I know you really like the Thoress stuff, no offence intended.
Vox Olympian. This could be total delusion on my part, but these seemed better this year. Running a Fuuga (http://www.sakurasystems.com/fuuga.html)cartridge, supposedly to re-create the Miyabi sound (that dude retired) in a Kuzma 4 Point/Monaco Grand Prix (https://www.grandprixaudio.com/products/monaco-turntable-v20).
Now according to my reckoning, the Fuuga cartridge is right up there on the top of phono carts. No disrespect to Kevin, but he's always playing complete crap i.e. we have totally different musical tastes. But once a particular LP got going what I heard exceeded anything I have ever heard out of the Olympians. Things just started happening in a totally excellent manner. Spatially fantastic, superb resolution, great tone etc etc basically goddam impressive. I've not been a great fan of Olympians so far, but it really was good on that LP, whatever it was.
I still have no idea what the huge subs can do. I just have to assume they can do something. But I choose to believe that cart is right up there with the very best of the best. I'm not even going to look up the price ($9,000 :D). It'll be a lot.
Obv. the LV OBX weren't in the way when I was listening as reported above.
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Back on styling I like we have Acoustic Plan and their wacky looking 46C amp (Google it and get nothing so I assume it's new) on static display. Plus a couple of other bits of theirs.
I'll take the 46C.
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sq225917
16-05-2018, 18:27
Acoustic plan, handmade in Germany, costs an arm and leg, couldn't be arsed to recess anything on front or rear panels....
They are obviously not in recess.:D
I will say I did think the volume control felt a little dodgy... not the best knob feel by any means:spank:
Truly dreadful I felt.
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I will say I did think the volume control felt a little dodgy... not the best knob feel by any means:spank:
Lol... The other thing that's obvious, apart from what Simon and you have pointed out, is the use of el-cheapo, bog standard speaker terminals and phono sockets. You'd think at this ridiculously elevated price level, they'd have fitted the likes WBTs, and stuff that was made from solid-silver or copper, rather than cheap brass!:rolleyes:
That's inexcusable. For the price being charged, these things should be brim full of the finest components known to man, and in terms of volume control 'knob feel', fitted with the highest quality stepped attenuators, so that in use, the 'feel' is very positive and silky-smooth.
It doesn't bode well for what components might lurk 'under the hood', if they can't even be arsed to impress on the outside - probably obsolete stock from Maplins!:doh:
Lots more 'slurp', then....
Marco.
I agree Marco and I was going to point it out but you beat me to it.
Anyway, I'd best point out why I thought the Cessaro weren't up to par.
Apparently the Cessaro man had decided to keep bass levels very low, so despite the huge subs, you didn't really hear any. The total opposite of the AG Trio & basshorn effort.
But every time I went in there, the sound was a let down. Huge speakers producing very average sound. The lack of bass was a common observation by others. I've been to Munich four times now and I have never heard Cessaro speakers sound good. The best it probably the Liszt, but even then I think the large mid range horn disperses sound in a very different manner to the rest of the speaker. Obvious when you move around the room.
Someone on another forum referred to them as transistor radio sound. Almost fair:D
Strangely, though, it doesn't seem to matter. They sell quite a few (4-6) of these top end Cessaros per show. For many customers it seems that appearance counts for more than sound. I think they look pretty vile and awkward.
A few more (not great) Cessaro snaps. The amps might be alright for all I know. The speakers definitely aren't in my book.
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Sorry, I didn't qualify, it was the 46C with the dodgy knob.
Magico. Never been keen. Yet I have never heard this model before. Every time I went in, it sounded pretty good. Surprise.
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walpurgis
17-05-2018, 09:38
Yes. Magico are one of those names that seem to sell from some sort of perceived prestige (high cost?). The few I've heard did not really impress. Can't recall models. I'd lump Avalon and Wilson in there too. I've not been struck with them either.
Yes. Magico are one of those names that seem to sell from some sort of perceived prestige (high cost?). The few I've heard did not really impress. Can't recall models. I'd lump Avalon and Wilson in there too. I've not been struck with them either.
Agreed. Wilson are a recipe of sterility, generally. Avalon just never entertain and beg the question why does anyone like them??
TW Accustic you might think. I did.
Wrong. More expensive. Went out for a meal with some What's Best Forum chappies, one of whom was a TW owner. He had been grilling the rep and apparently they are quite different in terms of platter construction, this being heavier than any TW.
Not sure a chrome Morch DP8 looks right on it, but hey.
I think it is a Danish Hartvig, but it must be a new model, since the website doesn't detail it. Hartvig leaflets were right by it.
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hORNS Poland.
Generally not a bad brand. Their hORNS FP15 is a great speaker I think, and the recent Universum although now a lot more expensive than it used to be, sounds a lot better than it used to. Early iterations weren't good.
This is the Symphony loudspeaker. Not really my cup of tea, but it did sound pleasant. I'd rather have the FP15 or Universum.
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walpurgis
17-05-2018, 10:12
That MC cartridge is interesting. Looks very nicely made. Appears a Classic MC layout, you could put it next to a naked SPU and they'd look very similar apart from what is maybe a Neodimium magnet. There's quite a bit of 'air' around the coil assembly, so I assume the magnet is powerful.
pure sound
17-05-2018, 10:25
That MC cartridge is interesting. Looks very nicely made. Classic MC layout, you could put it next to a naked SPU and they'd look very similar apart from what is maybe a Neodimium magnet. There's quite a bit of 'air' around the coil assembly, so I assume the magnet is powerful.
Isn't that cartridge the Audio Technica ART 1000 (or some copy of it) where the coils are attached at the tip while suspended in the magnet gap? ie very different from a conventional MC configuration.
http://excellence.audio-technica.com/
walpurgis
17-05-2018, 10:27
That MC cartridge is interesting. Looks very nicely made. Appears a Classic MC layout, you could put it next to a naked SPU and they'd look very similar apart from what is maybe a Neodimium magnet. There's quite a bit of 'air' around the coil assembly, so I assume the magnet is powerful.
Actually, Having blown the picture up, it seems I was wrong. I think the coil is above the stylus tip between those magnet 'jaws' and I can see fine wires leading down the cantilever. Unusual. Could be very good if they've got it right.
jandl100
17-05-2018, 10:30
Great photos, folks. Thanks for your efforts. :thumbsup:
No MBLs, though. :(
(I know Justin did mention the packedness of the room).
Great photos, folks. Thanks for your efforts. :thumbsup:
No MBLs, though. :(
(I know Justin did mention the packedness of the room).
The problem is the 101 Xtreme and the live cellist they have in there attracts too much attention. It'd just be pics of the Xtreme I have posted loads of times in pervious years.
TBH I could have gone in there on Sunday, when it would have been easy, but it just isn't as interesting as hearing other stuff I haven't heard before.
Have an off centre Dan shot. The challenge is to get the needle to hit 1.6 KW, obviously.
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Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 12:25
Great photos, folks. Thanks for your efforts. :thumbsup:
No MBLs, though. :(
(I know Justin did mention the packedness of the room).
Just for you Jerry :)
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Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 12:26
Isn't that cartridge the Audio Technica ART 1000 (or some copy of it) where the coils are attached at the tip while suspended in the magnet gap? ie very different from a conventional MC configuration.
http://excellence.audio-technica.com/
Yes Guy its the ART1000 by AT, when I went in on the Saturday they were using another cart and planned to use the ART100 on the Sunday
jandl100
17-05-2018, 13:41
Just for you Jerry :)
Thanks, Lee.
Yum. :D
brian2957
17-05-2018, 13:45
Really enjoying these photos guys . Thanks :)
Have an off centre Dan shot. The challenge is to get the needle to hit 1.6 KW, obviously.
I'm sure it would, if you hit the whole bloody thing hard enough with a hammer!:D ....which is what it deserves.
Anyway, yes, great pics (much appreciated), you too, Lee, so keep' em coming:cool:
Marco.
Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 14:11
Here's one, the new Lampizator Pacific Dac, apparently Gold plated. The original Pacific was brass but tarnished over time so Lampizator switched to gold plating.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/957/42123368271_3e264baa93_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bigQc)DSCF1059 (https://flic.kr/p/27bigQc) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Matching mono blocks
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/944/41403212934_6980f5c056_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/265EhJS)DSCF1060 (https://flic.kr/p/265EhJS) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 14:14
Air Tight mono blocks, didnt quite sound right when i went in but nonetheless looked quite nice, maybe it was the speakers they were using?
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/908/28250682838_effcc38405_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3q8LA)DSCF1042 (https://flic.kr/p/K3q8LA) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/912/41403035964_ad3557148e_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/265Do8E)DSCF1041 (https://flic.kr/p/265Do8E) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Primalsea
17-05-2018, 14:16
Going up to 11 is just not enough anymore. Now we can go up to 1.6kW :mad:
Anyway, yes, great pictures. Really enjoying looking at these.
Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 14:16
An exotic to say the least headphone amp from Auris. Im not a headphone user myself but did have a listen, think the phones were Grado, overall it sounded quite nice but it did retail at over 13,000 Euro!!
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/975/41221760325_24e28101b8_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25NCicB)DSCF1008 (https://flic.kr/p/25NCicB) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 14:20
The Nagra room, normally im not a big fan of Wilson Speakers but must admit when I popped in they did sound quite nice. They also had on display around the room some vintage tape machines which were nice to look at.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/966/41223190075_bbfa20fc0e_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25NKCdt)DSCF1142 (https://flic.kr/p/25NKCdt) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/907/42078068942_01dabb4ecf_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/277i6Vh)DSCF1144 (https://flic.kr/p/277i6Vh) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/981/41223178645_eab8095aad_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25NKyPp)DSCF1145 (https://flic.kr/p/25NKyPp) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 14:23
Marten speakers with big Vitus power amps, this sounded quite nice. I heard a number of Vitus amps at the show and they are quite a nice sounding amp, not sure how much a pair this big would be though.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/972/28251348838_4f6d8b7eb8_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3txKm)DSCF1106 (https://flic.kr/p/K3txKm) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 14:24
Estelon speakers again using the same Vitus Audio mono blocks, these speakers are huge in the flesh, powered by the Vitus amps they did sound quite nice
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/981/41223023505_95944882f5_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25NJLGz)DSCF1107 (https://flic.kr/p/25NJLGz) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Lee Henley
17-05-2018, 14:27
The VDH room, this was a very busy room due to that fact the guy from VDH was doing the cartridge repairs. Had a quick listen, this one didnt do much for me
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/903/28251323798_680fd708e6_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/K3tqiC)DSCF1112 (https://flic.kr/p/K3tqiC) by henleymajor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142992602@N06/), on Flickr
Well what a bummer. I dropped my OnePlus 3T in the toilet a month ago, the Sony RX100 wasn't working properly with motor noise injected into each video, and I didn't think the cheap Motorola I'd bought until you can buy a OnePlus 6 actually shot an OK video so I shot hardly any.
So here's one below. If someone had said the Dan D'Agostino Relentless video was alright quality I would have shot a lot more. Oh well. Useless fools on this forum so you all get what you deserve!!!:lol:
Now I'm not claiming the sound is ace, but the video quality is pretty good. So here's the Air Tight room...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wicg18eGh5s&t=3s
So on the way to Spatenhaus for the What's Best Forum meal, which is just outside the opera house, about half a mile away I heard a most excellent noise.
As I got closer I remember thinking what a joke hi-fi replay really is. When I was right it front of this crew it was just sonically friggin' unbelievably good. Surreal good.
It's just amazing what a fantastic noise a few decent drummers can make. I'll give you some visuals, but forget it as far as camera sonics and your replay system are concerned. No matter what level your system is at, it sucks. Really it does.;):lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q2pPjvK3KM
A quick walk through Marienplatz... spot the fairy. No, really!:eyebrows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k98X2Qtgq2c&t=8s
I kept seeing Fremer all over the place. Anyway, go to exactly 35 minutes in this video for the new Pink Triangle turntable.
Now that does look nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT4Xm0G7mNo
Mobile pics of the £20K Techie stuck in a display case. Couldn't get any closer.
I've seen worse:D I think it looks pretty fine in the flesh TBH.
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Actually, Having blown the picture up, it seems I was wrong. I think the coil is above the stylus tip between those magnet 'jaws' and I can see fine wires leading down the cantilever. Unusual. Could be very good if they've got it right.
Now that makes a lot of sense: eliminates the mechanical disadvantage of having the coils near the fulcrum, and so can generate a larger electrical signal with a nice strong and concentrated magnetic field for them to work in. I want one! :)
Suspect it's hugely expensive though, as will be the re-tipping. :(
Beobloke
17-05-2018, 21:15
Mobile pics of the £20K Techie stuck in a display case.
£14k actually!
I am feeling rather divorced from any real enthusiasm about this exorbitantly expensive stuff, and a sense of alienation from the Hi-Fi culture seems to be developing in me.
I find the indulgent use of exotic materials almost obscene, and so far detached from my notions of scientific analysis of the objective and attempts at solutions; it all looks pretty obscenely opulent, and I bet that much of it can be nearly matched in SQ by much cheaper stuff.
Much description also seems to be almost as if pasted from a personal memory of the collective style of the Hi-Fi writers.
Something to me is really wrong here; it all seems detached from the realities of sound and to have morphed into a world of Industrial/3D design, ( I studied at Ravensbourne College)
£14k actually!No.
£20K actually.
Source Hi-Fi News June 2018 page 34.
Motor unit, plinth and arm. As pictured.
Much description also seems to be almost as if pasted from a personal memory of the collective style of the Hi-Fi writers.
Really? I think I'd be instantly sacked for some of the stuff I've written here if working for the press. And there's no real attempt at a review of anything. It is all subjective bullshit and rantings. I usually put that in - absolutely take everything I say with a pinch of salt.
You are right though it is possible to do very well for much less money.
But that isn't the issue here. Money making and expensive product is a huge consideration. Like high end anything else e.g. cars and jewelry.
People also love to gawp at the huge prices being asked. Mainly because most can't even vaguely afford it.
If all that upsets you - get a grip. It's just a hobby.
Mobile pics of the £20K Techie stuck in a display case. Couldn't get any closer.
I've seen worse:D I think it looks pretty fine in the flesh TBH.
https://jayqqw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mGde6KOs9n2lYb9qfIIeRlsyaQqQSEqqg7qnodNKD7BNsZYq FdNyXhhXEgJXImLxJ0F6Ch0TGnFYGfkAUdwpGL28BpoWuf3Jvx Pwa4DPn0AEQSxhbIiFJZ1Tm9QUdgFCHZspzv8-8CXzxouRgH-5Yr9KRtd_LaZtXPspd63QFlFqT8dHaUQvscG3Af-1xZFv7fX3naulwRbjyp--3SiOVXA?width=4032&height=3024&cropmode=none
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It had a great review in HiFi News. It can take 3 arms.
Lee Henley
18-05-2018, 07:05
Mobile pics of the £20K Techie stuck in a display case. Couldn't get any closer.
I've seen worse:D I think it looks pretty fine in the flesh TBH.
https://jayqqw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mGde6KOs9n2lYb9qfIIeRlsyaQqQSEqqg7qnodNKD7BNsZYq FdNyXhhXEgJXImLxJ0F6Ch0TGnFYGfkAUdwpGL28BpoWuf3Jvx Pwa4DPn0AEQSxhbIiFJZ1Tm9QUdgFCHZspzv8-8CXzxouRgH-5Yr9KRtd_LaZtXPspd63QFlFqT8dHaUQvscG3Af-1xZFv7fX3naulwRbjyp--3SiOVXA?width=4032&height=3024&cropmode=none
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They had the Technics playing in a room mate in the Technics room, it was behind a pair of white doors. When we went in the guy was just getting ready to do his speech to the people gathered on the chairs so we politely left. It looks a nice machine in the flesh and very well manufactured but at £20k there's a lot of competition and from what I've heard its no better than the original SP10
I can't imagine an SP10 ever being cheap. I wonder what the inflation adjusted price would be?
I don't know enough about Technics decks to comment but I suspect it is better than a god knows how old SP10 unless it has been comprehensively checked out and serviced.
On the face of it I know which I'd rather have but I am not spending £20K on any record deck. It certainly looks better made due to modern manufacturing and the platter does look better/more expensive to produce. What difference that makes in reality I can't say.
Techie experts?
I think my upset is actually really more to do with our society's drift into opulence rather than it being about Hi-Fi, which of course by definition is a luxury life adjunct.
That capitalism can knowingly indulge to this extent to extract money from people feels wrong.
I think my upset is actually really more to do with our society's drift into opulence .
.
Which sort of implies that the drift into opulence is a new thing, rather than something that was happening back when Moses was a lad.
I don't think there is any area of consumer goods that does not have a sector that caters to the very wealthy. We only notice the hi-fi one because it is something we are interested in.
Beobloke
18-05-2018, 12:02
No.
£20K actually.
Source Hi-Fi News June 2018 page 34.
Motor unit, plinth and arm. As pictured.
Thats intriguing - I was told £8k for the SP-10R motor unit and £14k for the motor, plinth and arm, by the bloke from Technics UK at the Bristol Show! :scratch:
Vox Olympian. This could be total delusion on my part, but these seemed better this year. Running a Fuuga (http://www.sakurasystems.com/fuuga.html)cartridge, supposedly to re-create the Miyabi sound (that dude retired) in a Kuzma 4 Point/Monaco Grand Prix (https://www.grandprixaudio.com/products/monaco-turntable-v20).
Now according to my reckoning, the Fuuga cartridge is right up there on the top of phono carts. No disrespect to Kevin, but he's always playing complete crap i.e. we have totally different musical tastes. But once a particular LP got going what I heard exceeded anything I have ever heard out of the Olympians. Things just started happening in a totally excellent manner. Spatially fantastic, superb resolution, great tone etc etc basically goddam impressive. I've not been a great fan of Olympians so far, but it really was good on that LP, whatever it was.
I still have no idea what the huge subs can do. I just have to assume they can do something. But I choose to believe that cart is right up there with the very best of the best. I'm not even going to look up the price ($9,000 :D). It'll be a lot.
Obv. the LV OBX weren't in the way when I was listening as reported above.
The Fuuga, Kuzma, Monaco combination did sound very nice :D
Last year LV only took the Palladium speakers, this year they had the Vox Olypium in the LV room and the Vox Palladium in the Engstrom room. The subs do quite a bit, they fill in below around 70 Hz above which the mid-bass horn takes over afaik.
It had a great review in HiFi News. It can take 3 arms.
Is it meant to be used with the record placed directly on the metal platter, without a mat?
Which sort of implies that the drift into opulence is a new thing, rather than something that was happening back when Moses was a lad.
I don't think there is any area of consumer goods that does not have a sector that caters to the very wealthy. We only notice the hi-fi one because it is something we are interested in.
Whilst I sympathise with Dennis's disquiet about the way things are going commercially: there have always been manufacturers who would produce deluxe versions of their kit. Leitz used to make a limited edition lizard-skin covered and gold plated version of the Leica IIIf camera. Later they teamed up with Hermes to produce a limited edition of their Leica M7 with unique leather cladding and strap, but the actual camera and lens were unchanged.
Likewise is a £26K Patek-Philipe wristwatch any better than a £5K Rolex, do either keep time any better than say a £3 digital? No, people buy expensive clothes, cars and jewellery because it makes a statement about who they are and the image they like to present of themselves, regardless of any consideration of 'taste'.
In the high-end audio field there is virtually nothing that actually justifies the prices asked. There have been no breakthrough developments in amplifier design or in transducer design for decades, none that could be used to justify costs - no "R&D" to talk of, just OTT and unnecessary elaborate construction and choice of materials, as well as elaborate and glossy marketing.
One of the reasons why I long stopped visiting audio shows or reading the audio press, save for being amused but rarely impressed.
At one time, I would have found much of the hifi on show here highly desirable. Now, I am ambivalent, as it is clear to me that manufacturers are maximising margin to compensate for reduced sales in a niche market. It's an inevitable shame and we have to find a way to develop interest in hifi. It can be done: Beats headphones created a market from nothing, even though there was no sonic excellence with their product.
montesquieu
18-05-2018, 18:17
Really? I think I'd be instantly sacked for some of the stuff I've written here if working for the press. And there's no real attempt at a review of anything. It is all subjective bullshit and rantings. I usually put that in - absolutely take everything I say with a pinch of salt.
You are right though it is possible to do very well for much less money.
But that isn't the issue here. Money making and expensive product is a huge consideration. Like high end anything else e.g. cars and jewelry.
People also love to gawp at the huge prices being asked. Mainly because most can't even vaguely afford it.
If all that upsets you - get a grip. It's just a hobby.
Subjective rantings on a hifi forum? A first obviously :D
I agree with Justin there's nothing to get upset about. Actually in a way it's pretty wonderful (for all the irritation with shiny faceplates and to some degree the sameness of the techical solutions arrived at - which in part I think is the reason for the bling ... to differentiate) to see quite so many people all together, passionate and interested in audio. It can be pretty lonely out there at times.
The new Pink Triangle looks and sounds super exciting - I can’t wait to learn more about it!
Likewise is a £26K Patek-Philipe wristwatch any better than a £5K Rolex, do either keep time any better than say a £3 digital? No, people buy expensive clothes, cars and jewellery because it makes a statement about who they are and the image they like to present of themselves, regardless of any consideration of 'taste'.
I completely agree with the post this quote was taken from. However, in terms of the above, I don't think a valid comparison can be drawn between watches and hi-fi equipment, certainly in the sense you mean, simply because nice watches, by their very nature, *are* a form of jewellery, thus are designed to be 'shown off' or admired.
Hi-fi equipment, quite simply isn't a form of jewellery, and so shouldn't be treated as such, unless you're a pretentious fool!;)
Marco.
I like blingy watches, except for the modern style of having an enormous dial, that just looks stupid to me.
But I like my hi-fi equipment to look functional and purposeful, if possible. What it looks like wouldn't put me off buying it if the sound was what I wanted and the price was right. So it isn't a deal breaker for me if it has gold stripes and all that crap all over it. But I'd prefer not to have that, all else being equal.
On the other hand I always liked the look of the Marantz 'champagne gold' finish kit. Which is a bit 'Abu Dhabi' I know. Maybe I'm just confused?
I like blingy watches, except for the modern style of having an enormous dial, that just looks stupid to me.
You'd get on well with Snapper, although he's also into the 'enormous dial' thing... I'm the complete opposite, not a big watch guy and DETEST bling.
However, if I had to chose something nice, I'd go for a classic timepiece [and definitely analogue], such as a vintage Submariner, or something more modern, simple, but stylish, from Rolex or Patek Philippe (in that order below)...
The daddy of all vintage watches:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/BE5mco.jpg
Rolex Oyster Air King, from 2016 - just gorgeous:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/gePM2C.jpg
Patek Philippe 5205G:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/hzPcpF.png
On the wrist:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/JRAlqY.jpg
I like simple, timeless elegance :)
Marco.
walpurgis
19-05-2018, 08:38
I like blingy watches, except for the modern style of having an enormous dial, that just looks stupid to me
I don't like 'blingy' anything, never have and I stopped wearing a watch many years ago.
I'm not a 'watch guy' by any stretch of the imagination. I like Rolexes. I bought a fancy Pulsar (a division of Seiko) for myself for my 30th birthday and have had it ever since. Can't afford a Rolex even second hand. But I do like to wear a watch, I don't feel right without one.
hifi_dave
19-05-2018, 09:24
I bought my Submariner in 1970 and love it. It isn't a very large watch and having skinny arms, it's about right. One of the huge watches would look daft.
walpurgis
19-05-2018, 09:25
But I do like to wear a watch, I don't feel right without one.
That's how I felt when I first stopped wearing one. But I got used to the idea quickly enough. Since I retired, I realised I simply don't often need to know the time and when I'm out the phone tells me that if need be and there's clock in the car.
I bought my Submariner in 1970 and love it. It isn't a very large watch and having skinny arms, it's about right. One of the huge watches would look daft.
I also have skinny little wrists so I'm stuck for that. But those huge watches would look daft on Popeye, never mind me.
I'm not a 'watch guy' by any stretch of the imagination. I like Rolexes.
I like tasteful, unpretentious looking Rolex watches, such as I've shown. The rest, especially those huge shiny gold monstrosities, worn by the vulgar nouveau riche and chav lottery winners, you can keep! :spew:
Marco.
The question of taste, and what good taste is, is interesting.
Is it just subjective, and there are no criteria by which to judge aesthetics?
Yesterday I went to Eastbourne and whilst there searched for clothes, my becoming fed up with wearing old rags, and I expressed the view to another shopkeeper, that in Primark what was on offer seemed to be alluding to being highly expensive designer brands, but to me was insufficiently well done to be convincing. The result was that it all looked like cheap copies.
I like simple well cut clothes, a good example being Levi 501s, and not the prevalent ubiquitous plastic stuff, ill fitting and cut from tubular cloth into lengths, stitched to smaller similar ones for the arms for example.
Much of this stuff seems not to be liked by buyers and ends up in charity shops, where it can be purchased really cheaply.
In my youth great emphasis was placed on 'good taste', and it seemed to be composed of well made, subdued in style, (not loud), and in the case of clothes, well cut. Any views?
walpurgis
19-05-2018, 12:27
there are no criteria by which to judge aesthetics?
I think there are. Nothing set in stone though, but the word 'bling' gives us a clue. It wouldn't exist otherwise.
Things can be artistic or even artful and still display restrained good taste. I find some people's idea of 'classy' hilarious.
Me? I like things simple, with form being dictated by function. The ideal example was the original Alec Issigonis design of the Mini. Absolutely no concessions to styling, but it looked great. The hideous modern BMW mini 'clone' is just the opposite.
The Fuuga, Kuzma, Monaco combination did sound very nice :D
Last year LV only took the Palladium speakers, this year they had the Vox Olypium in the LV room and the Vox Palladium in the Engstrom room. The subs do quite a bit, they fill in below around 70 Hz above which the mid-bass horn takes over afaik.
Very true I watched a couple of Mundorf guys come in and damage the Paladiums, with Kevin yelling at them to "get out!". High drama.
After I flew in, I was hungry so had this pork which was absolutely brilliant, from the market close to Marienplatz. Excellent pork, great crackling, fab gravy, brilliant sauerkraut, super potatoes (with something in I wasn't able to isolate - same was true of the sauerkraut).
8 Euros 50. I can honestly say I enjoyed it more than the otherwise very nice pork I had at Spatenhaus, the bill for which in total for me personally came to 61 Euros! Recommended.
https://kwakzg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mH4j62AWLyVL6ukb2hNDNPpq3x4GNfifoLuZtgujfqGo4WJZ 6x-I2rORMlATjnD0jYLUvyCa3wHT1XLPQYTyRTRhYc2HrGhB_YDP8 hAjM2RHmn1l2fG3IoDS77qVMNEqdv1gG77nSpFHNyrIl_HM2Fx A8t6JgMIITD1XRgJqnvWX8nV9jbUq3-1165kJ30aCmkd2dDNWpZfkKltDRFqo5vg?width=4032&height=3024&cropmode=none
Regulars should recognise it - courtesy of Google.
https://laakzg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mbzoy3IfvX6gKskMj81888lshc7-lV48Gz5GZQq8zlK-Hmvhx0W8scWhajuvrlFGlBEAJFuk6HxAVp-EpSCj6Md3mkk-_w69Z2hiG1fLstfBRPiWCN4qzknvQLGfcIJhVPqrhDFVZypzJ3 rbXAIKiFWC36jqRDRN7rOe9mZ9hPBIMYLzK7rTKMajUipJqxKH MMUA76VsMYv6kNoIu5JD_oQ?width=1498&height=1019&cropmode=none
TdP made me smile/pissed me off a bit.
I watched him playing with the R2R below for about 10 minutes, expecting him to start playing from it. About then I thought "I give up" but then decided no, I'd stay. Another 5 minutes later he was still messing with it. I had to leave. Couldn't handle any more of it!:D
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Older gear on display.
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Beobloke
19-05-2018, 12:57
The new Pink Triangle looks and sounds super exciting - I can’t wait to learn more about it!
I was chatting to Arthur about it at Munich - it does sound very intriguing and I look forward to seeing and hearing the finished article.
The only problem I have with it is that, with a projected price tag of £60-70,000 you could buy three SL-1000Rs for that...
walpurgis
19-05-2018, 13:07
What are the speakers on the EAR display?
The music in the Air Tight video is from the Brandt Brauer Frick Ensemble album Mr Machine.
According to TIDAL, they are described as "Kraftwerk in reverse". Oddly , the track isn't that typical of the rest of the material.
Strongly in the fabulous sonics category, I was listening to it on my newly returned modified Lampizator last night. Highly recommended if you like electronica.
What are the speakers on the EAR display?
http://www.grahamaudio.co.uk/products/ls58/
hope you and keith have a wonderful time , tell keith to listen especially to the verity audio otellos and feed back to me if poss
http://www.verityaudio.com/en/loudspeakers/main-line/otello
FWIW I thought the mid range and treble was nice and open. Filled the large room well.
But what I don't particularly like is the bass units firing the wrong way. There's a loss of definition because of that, and it just sounds a bit wrong. I'd turn the bass cabs round and see what they sound like then. Couldn't do it, obviously.
I wonder what the (odd?) reasoning for it is.
https://gqzfaa.db.files.1drv.com/y4mGevU_c3e0okxE_WOkgvMho1IMdQP5-oQ-RjWmXhR-GIT_7NhLva8z46-Y8WmVLyF2u_LcKfv3AiSsaQFp8M1bK7kMWynUyvXvMzp0rBFiK a3W6qZeEEMrZBnbrtmkaT4XWEsVSQ4Ci4sKhRGcoh6M-TwAljMoRh34WjLY0-Knwf1jaTXOjBJiPHqCg4DchidanKpvnIXtiNSVYwBIq2cdw?wi dth=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
walpurgis
19-05-2018, 13:48
http://www.grahamaudio.co.uk/products/ls58/
Ah. Interesting. Nice to see the old Audax 13/34 tweeter still in favour. I've used them myself.
Ah. Interesting. Nice to see the old Audax 13/34 tweeter still in favour. I've used them myself.
They sound alright just nothing special in the presence of much more expensive offerings at the show. You can hear the drivers are polyprop. They definitely have the same sonic character common to other polyprop drivers.
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