View Full Version : Cheapest speaker options for BIG sound
Sometimes you read a thread and it gets you thinking.....
Macca and Marco's latest visit to Cooky did this with me. I reckon lots of us would like to try something with a massive sound. Trouble is, that usually means 12" or larger drivers and big cabinets. These don't usually come cheap.
I was therefore wondering if there are any affordable suggestions for dipping your toe in the waters of the sort of scale you can get with big JBL or Tannoys without spending thousands. Even better if the speaker doesn't need 1kw of power :lol:
Or am I just expecting the impossible?
fatmarley
15-04-2018, 11:14
What do you mean by affordable? There are some Yamaha NS 590 on ebay - buy It now £460. I haven't a clue what they are worth though. Also there are 2 pairs of Heybrook HB3 on ebay but the mids will need refoaming - Not sure of woofer size but It looks big.
Not sure If some JBL speakers are still affordable but I know you used to be able to get some good ones for not much cash. How about vintage Wharfdale? Not sure how good they are though.
jandl100
15-04-2018, 11:23
You can sometimes pick up SD Acoustics SD1 speakers for £300 or so.
Merely 10 inchers I think with cone mids and ribbon tweeters.
I had a pair (£222 off ebay) and they could certainly move some air as well as being very fine all-rounders. Stupidly good for that sort of money imo.
You can sometimes pick up SD Acoustics SD1 speakers for £300 or so.
Merely 10 inchers I think with cone mids and ribbon tweeters.
I had a pair (£222 off ebay) and they could certainly move some air as well as being very fine all-rounders. Stupidly good for that sort of money imo.
Heard them a long long time ago. That's exactly the sort of thing I meant. Good shout!
walpurgis
15-04-2018, 11:42
There are some Yamaha NS 590 on ebay
They may be nice, but if anything goes wrong, sourcing parts will be nigh on impossible. The bass drivers look as though they may have had new foam cone surrounds fitted.
walpurgis
15-04-2018, 11:45
Two pairs of Celestion Ditton 25's I linked to on ebay earlier.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33544-Bargains-on-ebay-(Part-2)&p=968540#post968540
They'll give you a huge sound for not much money!
rigger67
15-04-2018, 11:59
Goodmans Magnums might do the job and are available for under £100 usually.
Sherwood
15-04-2018, 12:06
What do you mean by a big sound? I have owned LS3/5a speakers for 40 years and many think they offer a "big sound" in a small cabinet.
I am still fond of these speakers but realized long ago that they were not big in many respects, especially dynamics.
I recently bought a pair of Martin Logan Motion 2 speakers as part of a "travelling sytem" which when I am not travelling serve as my bedroom speakers. No they do not do deep bass, but I do not want that in a bedroom system. What they do in the extreme is convey the essence of a live performance. Dynamics are awesome, and even at the lower levels that I impose on myself when I am listening to music or watching an action film with "frightening" sound effects in a bedroom late at night!
Geoff
I mean the type of sound you get from big JBls Tannoys etc. Realistic levels of bass and dynamics as well as high SPls . I thought that twas clear from the OP.
Sherwood
15-04-2018, 12:22
I mean the type of sound you get from big JBls Tannoys etc. Realistic levels of bass and dynamics as well as high SPls . I thought that twas clear from the OP.
Sorry, it was not clear to me!
A "big sound" to me does not necessarily mean a weighty bass sound. To me it means big soundstage with realistic dynamics!
I said in the OP that the inspiration for the thread was the big Tannoys and JBLs Macca and Marco heard at Cooky's. The idea was to see if that scale of sound was available without spending thousands. Lots of good things come from small speakers that pretend to be a bit bigger than they really are, but there are things they just can't do. Id say realistic dynamics are one of those things, along with realistic bass and high SPLs.
montesquieu
15-04-2018, 12:48
Goodmans Magnums might do the job and are available for under £100 usually.
Boxy sound though and in no way up there with Tannoys.
JBLs and Yammies are both a good call for speakers that can do scale, though the Yammies need the right amp to pull this off.
walpurgis
15-04-2018, 12:48
I mean the type of sound you get from big JBls Tannoys etc. Realistic levels of bass and dynamics as well as high SPls
These will definitely do all that. Those are 12" bass drivers and ABR's!
http://i68.tinypic.com/2ujs8lx.jpg
hornucopia
15-04-2018, 13:06
Leak Sandwiches? No problem with surround decay. And can sound pretty big!
(Not as big as those Celestions pictured though!Transmission Line speakers good too)
Sherwood
15-04-2018, 13:23
I said in the OP that the inspiration for the thread was the big Tannoys and JBLs Macca and Marco heard at Cooky's. The idea was to see if that scale of sound was available without spending thousands. Lots of good things come from small speakers that pretend to be a bit bigger than they really are, but there are things they just can't do. Id say realistic dynamics are one of those things, along with realistic bass and high SPLs.
Your question is unanswerable because of your two qualifiers.
You say usually associated with and affordable. Clearly in this context the qualifiers are mutually exclusive! You simpy cannot get Tannoy and JBL bass quality on a mini-speaker budget. I offered a suggestion for an affordable speaker that conveys an impression of scale by not pretending to do bass only dynamics and speed!
Bigman80
15-04-2018, 13:36
Personally, I think the biggest bargain I've ever bagged was my Pioneer CS-77A speakers. Scale, dynamics, speed and heft. They have it all. True 4 way design and best of all, they sound sublime. They have been likened by those who've heard them to Yammy NS1000m with their clean and resolving presentation. Personally, I think these are a bit sweeter than the yammies but I haven't done a A/B. They move air in a big way and they go very very low. If you can find a pair in the UK (very rare) I'd suggest grabbing them. Loads of spares available in the USA too.
I moved from PMC 21 standmounts with 5.5" drivers which were really good, BUT then I bought Tannoy Berkeleys with 15" drivers and absolutely no comparison in weight of sound and dynamics.
If like me you prefer your music to really fill the room and you can feel the music but can also pick out the detail then you'd like the sound I'm getting [emoji6]
Small speakers are good at what they do but for me who likes live music the Tannoys trounce the PMC's I had.
I'm currently listening to Journeyscapes radio channel at about 9m away from the speakers, ok I've got the volume well up but I still have a wee chuckle to myself that it sounds so good, even with a 320kbps internet stream [emoji6]
Mind you I've maybe set myself up for a fall as I have a demo of my kit to two friends this week and they might tell me it's crap [emoji23]
If they do, well there will be no Cake [emoji23]
Your question is unanswerable because of your two qualifiers.
You say usually associated with and affordable. Clearly in this context the qualifiers are mutually exclusive! You simpy cannot get Tannoy and JBL bass quality on a mini-speaker budget. I offered a suggestion for an affordable speaker that conveys an impression of scale by not pretending to do bass only dynamics and speed!
Does anyone else get this? I don't seem to have used the term "usually associated with" anyway, but even if I did, the qualities of a massive, dynamic sound with high SPLs and plenty bass delivered from big drivers seems to be appearing in other people's suggestions. I didn't start the thread looking for an argument so im a bit perplexed TBH. I even asked if I was asking for the impossible. Lots of you seem to think the answer to that is "no".
I'm currently using Isobariks so I get a reasonable scale anyway. I'm more interested in learning about "sleeper" bargains for myself in the future and also others who may want to scratch a similar itch without spending big JBL or Tannoy money.
These will definitely do all that. Those are 12" bass drivers and ABR's!
http://i68.tinypic.com/2ujs8lx.jpgYip, those would be perfect, nearly bought some myself before I found my Tannoys [emoji6]
PhilofCas
15-04-2018, 14:27
Would adding a subwoofer give smaller speakers a larger sound? Seems to me that one of the defining values of whether a speaker sounds large or not, is more accurate bass reproduction. I know there’s more to it than bass, as has as been said above a small speaker can sound large and my Spendor’s do the same, handling of ambience is definitely another factor.
Frazeur1
15-04-2018, 14:29
I don’t know about your budget, but I would say keep an eye out for some used Heco Direkt speakers, good sound, dynamic etc. FWIW.
I've seen those. They look to be a helluva lot of speaker for the money. I can imagine them being an even bigger bargain used. I didn't set any budget because I wasn't just asking for myself. It was more to get some general suggestions for speakers with a large scale sound with realistic bass and dynamics for hundreds rather than thousands.
I think it's a pity that lots of people today may only get to hear small bookshelf speakers or slim floorstanders with a pair of 4 inch drivers. Taking a punt on big Tannoys isn't always viable or possible , especially when you've never experienced what a big speaker can do. I had hoped the thread would flag up some bargains for anyone wanting to try a bigger speaker, including myself in the future. So far there have been a good few suggestions I wouldn't have thougt of, so I hope it's of interest to others too.
Would adding a subwoofer give smaller speakers a larger sound? Seems to me that one of the defining values of whether a speaker sounds large for not, is more accurate bass reproduction. I know there’s more to it than bass, as has as been said above a small speaker can sound large and my Spendor’s do the same, handling of ambience is definitely another factor.
It's a great question. I have had two (REL) subwoofers myself and really liked the scale. As good as My Isobariks but perhaps a bit different. The thing is, I haven't heard big Tannoys or JBLS so I am as interested as you are as to whether they produce more scale, dynamics, SPLs etc than a standmounters with sub. I guess we will need to hear from a big speaker enthusiast who has also tried subs.
wee tee cee
15-04-2018, 14:55
I moved from PMC 21 standmounts with 5.5" drivers which were really good, BUT then I bought Tannoy Berkeleys with 15" drivers and absolutely no comparison in weight of sound and dynamics.
If like me you prefer your music to really fill the room and you can feel the music but can also pick out the detail then you'd like the sound I'm getting [emoji6]
Small speakers are good at what they do but for me who likes live music the Tannoys trounce the PMC's I had.
I'm currently listening to Journeyscapes radio channel at about 9m away from the speakers, ok I've got the volume well up but I still have a wee chuckle to myself that it sounds so good, even with a 320kbps internet stream [emoji6]
Mind you I've maybe set myself up for a fall as I have a demo of my kit to two friends this week and they might tell me it's crap [emoji23]
If they do, well there will be no Cake [emoji23]Canny see it!!!
Yer big tannoys sounded sublime last time i was over-looking forward to hearing the tubes driving them.
Cake munching very much on the cards!!!
montesquieu
15-04-2018, 15:10
It's a great question. I have had two (REL) subwoofers myself and really liked the scale. As good as My Isobariks but perhaps a bit different. The thing is, I haven't heard big Tannoys or JBLS so I am as interested as you are as to whether they produce more scale, dynamics, SPLs etc than a standmounters with sub. I guess we will need to hear from a big speaker enthusiast who has also tried subs.
Have had standmounts with with a couple of 15in Ruark subs (way back in the mists ...) Tannoys are room-filling in a different way - I'd rather enjoy that all-enveloping, phase-coherent dual concentric sound from Tannoys with 5hz less on bottom end extension, than standmounts with subs and a little bit extra depth. That's not to nay-say it as an approach it can sound very satisfying - just expressing a preference.
walpurgis
15-04-2018, 15:41
I've never heard smaller speakers with subwoofers make a sound I actually like, at least in a domestic setting. You get the bass depth and weight, but somehow the SLAM is not there. And yes, I have tried a few subs and heard plenty others. I even tried one with my Tannoy Cheviots, that was just silly and I stayed with it for about ten minutes.
Of course there are set-ups that can deliver, like this from Avant Garde (But, cheap it ain't!) The big silver thingy is a set of bass horns.
http://i64.tinypic.com/rsyhvt.jpg
This lot is huge. Twice as big in the flesh than it looks in the picture.
Very well described. I can get what you are saying and it's what I suspected but wouldn't have been able to put into words.
Sherwood
15-04-2018, 16:33
I certainly wasn't trying to be argumentative, but did intend to express strongly that I don't think it is possible to achieve what you are looking for at a low price, unless you happen to come across a second hand item where the seller does not appreciate the market value.
Yes, DC Tannoys are great and shift air effortlessly with the right amp. I personally, have heard few two- way systems that sound better (overall) for the addition of a sub-woofer. I am guessing that this is down to timing and coherence issues.
I do own some "smallish" speakers that do sound "big" though they are what I would describe as "good value" but certainly not cheap.
Perhaps, the cheapest speakers I have ever heard that really sounded "big" were a home built pair of open baffles. This was in a huge lounge with plenty of space all around. I can't be certain of the driver as it was a long time ago but it was at least a 12" dual concentric full-range driver (possibly german). The frame was pretty large and superbly make using marine grade plywood. IIRC, the whole thing cost abut £500 to make, not including the time of the maker. Of course, once you start to look at traditional designs such as big DC Tannoys, the cost of cabinet manufacture drives costs up exponentially.
Geoff
Sherwood
15-04-2018, 16:42
I've never heard smaller speakers with subwoofers make a sound I actually like, at least in a domestic setting. You get the bass depth and weight, but somehow the SLAM is not there. And yes, I have tried a few subs and heard plenty others. I even tried one with my Tannoy Cheviots, that was just silly and I stayed with it for about ten minutes.
Of course there are set-ups that can deliver, like this from Avant Garde (But, cheap it ain't!) The big silver thingy is a set of bass horns.
http://i64.tinypic.com/rsyhvt.jpg
This lot is huge. Twice as big in the flesh than it looks in the picture.
So that's where my hot tub and bidet sets went! :scratch:
Lawrence001
15-04-2018, 17:38
Goodmans Magnums might do the job and are available for under £100 usually.I had some Magisters a few years ago I reckon they could fulfil the requirements. Replace the capacitors and stick a supertweeter on top and they'll sound more refined too.
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walpurgis
15-04-2018, 17:42
I had some Magisters a few years ago I reckon they could fulfil the requirements
Yes. They do 'slam' rather well. Magisters have plenty of grunt and are a lot of fun, if not exactly tonally accurate and a bit zingy at the top. You have to watch the PVC skin on the bass cones, it has a habit of coming away from the paper beneath.
Lawrence001
15-04-2018, 20:33
I thought these looked worth a punt:
https://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/mobile/moreinfo.php?pid=56270&prodt=speaker
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Minstrel SE
16-04-2018, 01:47
I know what you mean about a big sound with an efficient speaker and 12"+ driver. If you like what you heard at Cookys I think you have to buy a pair of those as that is the reason Cooky shelled out for them. I dont think that can be done on the cheap
I have some 12" drivers on some PA speakers and before you all poo poo the idea, they sound good at the lowish volumes I need. They do what only a 12" driver will do and are highly efficient compared to many small box speakers. I use them to experiment with sound on a second output and as a backup for smaller speakers in that experimentation. You will be all scared that they sound brash but they dont really at controlled volumes with a good amp
A 7 litre Royd Coniston in a small to medium room is fine. I would like them more efficient on the db scale but I think they do offer a big sound with some juice through them. I must try some better amplifiers. The Minstrels put out incredible bass and you wonder where it comes from. A seven litre speaker with a controlled taut bass is fine as long as its not compensating with enhanced boom techniques. Royds do it brilliantly.
The main problem is the low efficiency of many speakers which need some juice through them. I like a 91db efficiency like the Monitor Audio 352s as long as you bung or semi bung that port :)
So I dont think there is a cheap way of getting what those big Tannoys do...thats why people search for and buy the Tannoys
Depends what you mean by 'cheap'. Tannoy Ardens are £7K bought new, I'm aiming to build some for £2K including the cost of drivers. £2K is not cheap by my standards but it is a lot cheaper than £7K.
Alternatives: As Martin says, there are not any. I've heard big JBLs embarrass some giant TAD speakers that were more than 4 times the price. The TADs are good speakers but they sounded like toys in comparison.
The Celestion A2 & A3 are pretty impressive, you can find them under a grand. And the Ditton 66 of course. But they don't really take you all the way there. Also depending on your room you might have issues whereas the Tannoy DC will work well in pretty much any space.
I've got a pair of Kef 105.1 that sound as big as any Tannoys I ever owned. Different presentation and delivery, like Tannoys they aren't small and they are good, and they are much cheaper to buy.
As has been documented hereabouts I didn't get on (at all) with Tannoys in my system and much prefer AN-E, and the Kefs as well. They have their limitations like all speakers, but if visceral impact and scale are your bag then they will give you three bags full. Not 'efficient' however a10 Watt amp on them, in my 5x4 man cave, will get the neighbours complaining (good s/s watts preferable I believe, my SIT sounds good with them, but my little Lowther Jazz 6L6 sounds fantastic albeit at more modest volume!
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Q Acoustics 2050i’s best bang for the buck floor stander currently £269 delivered free direct from QA, 92db/w so don’t need much power either.
https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/q-acoustics-2050i-floorstanding-speakers-pair.html
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Michael loves music
16-04-2018, 15:15
Q Acoustics 2050i’s best bang for the buck floor stander currently £269 delivered free direct from QA, 92db/w so don’t need much power either.
https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/q-acoustics-2050i-floorstanding-speakers-pair.html
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk what amp do you have with them Steve ?
what amp do you have with them Steve ?
I haven’t got 2050i’s I have the 3050s but they are £549 so thought they might be too dear for the OP.
I drive the 3050s with a Cambridge CXA60, never get the volume much past the 9 o’clock position with the high sensitivity, 2050i’s are similar in that respect.
Both have been WHF award winners.
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This was more the sort of speaker I envisaged people in search of a huge sound moving away from rather than towards. Small floorstanders with twin 6 1/2 in bass units won't produce the sort of scale you'd get from a big JBL or Tannoy.
walpurgis
16-04-2018, 22:55
I've produced weight, slam and scale from two paralled five and a half inch drivers.
But that was in huge, constant width, folded back loaded horn cabinets! :D
(wish I still had photos)
I've produced weight, slam and scale from two paralled five and a half inch drivers.
But that was in huge, constant width, folded back loaded horn cabinets! :D
(wish I still had photos)
I was just about to ask! Impulse H2s sounded huge but I haven't heard many other horns. Probably not gonna be under 4 figures these days though but I live in hope.
This was more the sort of speaker I envisaged people in search of a huge sound moving away from rather than towards. Small floorstanders with twin 6 1/2 in bass units won't produce the sort of scale you'd get from a big JBL or Tannoy.
You might be surprised, you obviously haven't heard any 3050s, I use them for HC as well as music and they are extremely capable. Getting a big sound as such is very room dependent, in a large room you don't necessarily need big speakers with big drivers to achieve it. Scale quite often comes down to sheer bass extension and the ability to shift air, my 3050s are flat to below 40hz with only a gentle roll off from there down to the cutoff frequency in my living room at 28hz, in a larger room they may go lower still.
My second tier system speakers, Jordan Eikona 2 VTLs are also capable of a big sound with only a 4" driver, admittedly with the help of a transmission line cabinet, they go almost as low as the 3050s but the small driver does limit maximum volume somewhat although they certainly have enough volume for an average to large living room unless you're a rock music loving headbanger [emoji846]
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eddieedwards
17-04-2018, 10:08
You could try some Cadence if you ever see them. Great sound from my Amayas for the price (sold em now though!).
You might be surprised, you obviously haven't heard any 3050s, I use them for HC as well as music and they are extremely capable. Getting a big sound as such is very room dependent, in a large room you don't necessarily need big speakers with big drivers to achieve it. Scale quite often comes down to sheer bass extension and the ability to shift air, my 3050s are flat to below 40hz with only a gentle roll off from there down to the cutoff frequency in my living room at 28hz, in a larger room they may go lower still.
My second tier system speakers, Jordan Eikona 2 VTLs are also capable of a big sound with only a 4" driver, admittedly with the help of a transmission line cabinet, they go almost as low as the 3050s but the small driver does limit maximum volume somewhat although they certainly have enough volume for an average to large living room unless you're a rock music loving headbanger [emoji846]
I'm just wondering if you have heard any large Tannoy dual concentrics or JBLs?
I'm currently using some JM Labs speakers which are considerably larger and generally more accomplished than the Q acoustic 3050 and they still sound like toys compared to the Tannoys or gerbils. It's a whole different ballgame.
I'm just wondering if you have heard any large Tannoy dual concentrics or JBLs?
I'm currently using some JM Labs speakers which are considerably larger and generally more accomplished than the Q acoustic 3050 and they still sound like toys compared to the Tannoys or gerbils. It's a whole different ballgame.
It's a long time since I heard any big Tannoys, if memory serves me I thought they were pretty horrendous at the time, not very well controlled and very coloured in the midrange. I don't tend to consider very big speakers as I just don't have the room for them, the 3050s are about as big as I can accommodate.
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It's a long time since I heard any big Tannoys, if memory serves me I thought they were pretty horrendous at the time, not very well controlled and very coloured in the midrange. I don't tend to consider very big speakers as I just don't have the room for them, the 3050s are about as big as I can accommodate.
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you get bad versions, and others that require attention. but when sorted they are hard to beat if thats the sound your after.
montesquieu
17-04-2018, 11:54
I'm just wondering if you have heard any large Tannoy dual concentrics or JBLs?
I'm currently using some JM Labs speakers which are considerably larger and generally more accomplished than the Q acoustic 3050 and they still sound like toys compared to the Tannoys or gerbils. It's a whole different ballgame.
I was thinking that myself when I read the post. There's not a 4in driver in the world can get anywhere close to filling a room like 12 or 15in DC Tannoys. (Well maybe if you used a stack of 5-6 of them each side and even then ...). It's not about bass extension in the least. Some models of LV can go to 30hz but for all their ability with detail just sound weedy and pathetic compared to big Tannoys (or indeed, to the larger 'gerbils'!). Cat coffins don't cut it!
(IMHO, YMMV etc).
hifinutt
17-04-2018, 12:23
I was just about to ask! Impulse H2s sounded huge but I haven't heard many other horns. Probably not gonna be under 4 figures these days though but I live in hope.
ha , i bought some impulse ta`us recently for just over half that and man.....they sound BIG ....... compared to my rienzis pictured
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/805/41249816902_6066357833_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25R76rG)IMG_0194 (https://flic.kr/p/25R76rG) by [/url], on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/885/26538253557_dc51ed813d_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/)P1060106 (https://flic.kr/p/Gr6ucP) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/], on Flickr
It's a long time since I heard any big Tannoys, if memory serves me I thought they were pretty horrendous at the time, not very well controlled and very coloured in the midrange. I don't tend to consider very big speakers as I just don't have the room for them, the 3050s are about as big as I can accommodate.
Yep, I have also heard big Tannoys sounding terrible and if that had been my only experience I wouldn't give them a second thought either. But there is a world of difference between some vintage Lancasters that have not been touched since they were built in 1970 and a properly sorted set in well-constructed cabs. I was at Scalford in 2012 when they had examples of both and it was educational.
Regarding the space, you can put the big Tannoys in a tiny room, jammed up into the corners and they will work perfectly well. Whereas I'm guessing the 3050 will need at least a little space around them so as not to sound a little boomy or thick. So in practice they will take up about the same amount of room. Big JBLs, on the other hand, do need a bit of space.
Yep, I have also heard big Tannoys sounding terrible and if that had been my only experience I wouldn't give them a second thought either. But there is a world of difference between some vintage Lancasters that have not been touched since they were built in 1970 and a properly sorted set in well-constructed cabs. I was at Scalford in 2012 when they had examples of both and it was educational.
Regarding the space, you can put the big Tannoys in a tiny room, jammed up into the corners and they will work perfectly well. Whereas I'm guessing the 3050 will need at least a little space around them so as not to sound a little boomy or thick. So in practice they will take up about the same amount of room. Big JBLs, on the other hand, do need a bit of space.
The 3050s do need a bit of space but even in non ideal positions they never sound boomy or thick just a little weightier, QA supply soft foam bungs for the ports which do work quite well provided you only push them in slightly, personally that takes a bit too much off the very low end for my liking.
I’ve “tuned” my ports with bungs made from compacted drinking straws which gives a lighter resistive loading than the foam which works perfectly in my room, it doesn’t affect extension but it makes the bass tighter and just reduces the level a little, took a bit of work but the result is perfect.
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You could have a look for some Transmission Line speakers, IMF or maybe TDL's they are the only other speakers I have heard that room fill like Cookys JBL and Tannoys do.
You could have a look for some Transmission Line speakers, IMF or maybe TDL's they are the only other speakers I have heard that room fill like Cookys JBL and Tannoys do.
I've got some IMF TLS 50s and they do have that weight to them, but they are not quite the same. Probably as close as you will get for budget money, though. I suspect the professional PMC TLs would do the job too but then you are back into big money and you might as well just get the JBLs.
walpurgis
17-04-2018, 13:45
I've got some IMF TLS 50s and they do have that weight to them, but they are not quite the same
I know the TLS 50. They do deep and solid, but don't really slam.
I've just remembered another speaker that packs a surprising wallop and in not too huge a box. The original KEF Concerto. Bung 'em on a clean punchy amp and they really boogie!
And they're much more tonally accurate than the Goodmans, Celestion and Wharfedale competitors. £100 to £150 picks up a decent pair. They are comparatively a bargain these days.
+1 on the older KEF range, anything up to the 90s.
I have 2 pairs of KEF C200 SW Subs, one set paired with KEF C15s and the other with KEF C25s and both sound extremely clear, loud and more bass than I could ever use. Idea behind them was to take the lower frequencies from the bookshelf speakers so they could achieve better clarity and sound which does work really well.
Also have a pair of KEF K160s connected to my AV which provide plenty of sound which too is clear and detailed.
The thing about bass is that is not just bass or no bass. Bass should have depth, slam, articulation, presence and tonality. There's very few speakers that can do all five to any degree and even fewer can do all five really well. And the amp and source play a part here too. No speaker can replace what is not there to begin with.
When I got the IMFs hooked up I could not believe how much bass energy there was on some recordings that I'd previously thought were a little bass light in production. As Geoff says, they don't do the slam so well. Or the articulation. But the depth and the presence!
I wonder how much driver diameter /size of wavefront plays a part as I too fail to get that scale thing even when subs underpin a medium say Mission 770/Spendor BC1 type of box.
I also have 12" JBL's with Array horns that also can do scale but not well as the 15" Tannoys or 15" JBL's but 12" Tannoys in decent cabs can do it in spades.
I also heard Impulse H2's at Strummers place make some ATC 50 A's sound weedy and small-The H2 were/are a bargain in that regard. Tannoy used to call it 'expanding sound source' in the olden days(when referring to their rear loaded horn cabs.
walpurgis
17-04-2018, 18:07
Yes. It's surprising how many speakers are well down on output by the time they go below maybe 45Hz. You don't notice on most music, but then if you have speakers that deliver a real 30Hz and below if you're lucky, the difference is very obvious with the right recording.
Try playing 'Are You Shpongled' through the average speaker and the 'boomps' on the first track intro are faint and nothing spectacular. Through my Cheviots, the 'boomps' are transformed into powerful and very deep wallops.
Of course you can have a big scale sound without a lot of bass too. I prefer it that way tbh. Bass should be seen and not heard
walpurgis
17-04-2018, 18:21
My big Coral horns had monstrous bass slam, but little output below about 40Hz. The the impact above that was huge though. They'd have yer trousers flapping against yer legs! :D I guess the whopping magnets and 102db sensitivity helped.
...the whopping magnets and 102db sensitivity helped.
That's what I thought made the difference between two drivers of the same size.
Was reading something about the evolution of the KEF company a while back and there was something about the engineers trying to get more air movement from smaller drivers with bigger magnets, more coil and better materials which they did successfully.
walpurgis
17-04-2018, 21:41
Was reading something about the evolution of the KEF company a while back and there was something about the engineers trying to get more air movement from smaller drivers with bigger magnets, more coil and better materials which they did successfully.
I think somebody may have been generalising or oversimplifying there.
Makers have used magnets of varying powers for varying purposes since moving coils speakers evolved.
Talking of KEF, look at the B200 bass/mid driver from the seventies. The smaller sealed cabinet speaker models (Chorale/Corelli) employing the B200 used versions with small magnets and relied on the 'airspring' effect to return the cone to its starting position. A bigger magnet would have overdamped the system reducing bass.
However, in the larger B200 equipped speakers (Cadenza/Calinda), the B200 had a large, heavy magnet. This was to provide a better damping of the larger volume system and proper control over the ABR's. A small magnet would have given too loose and slow a bass response.
alcarmichael
18-04-2018, 07:25
I'm extremely happy with my speakers, or, I was until I read this thread. It's now making me wonder what I'm missing out on.
Now, are these big Tannoys any good at more modest volumes (I don't live in a detached house) or is that defeating the purpose?
montesquieu
18-04-2018, 07:32
You aren’t far away from me Alan ... you are welcome to drop in and hear what properly sorted Tannoys can do. And yes they still do room filling scale at modest volumes. As has been suggested, something to do with driver area I suspect. That’s with (currently) 35w of Radford STA25.
alcarmichael
18-04-2018, 07:38
I think I'll have to take you up on that offer some time in the future, thank you very much Tom.
Alex ;)
hifinutt
18-04-2018, 09:13
I'm extremely happy with my speakers, or, I was until I read this thread. It's now making me wonder what I'm missing out on.
Now, are these big Tannoys any good at more modest volumes (I don't live in a detached house) or is that defeating the purpose?
one reason i bought my smaller tannoys is that i can listen in great detail at low volumes which is sometimes preferred by my wife when she is present . the 10 inch drivers can really fill the room though when they want
WESTLOWER
18-04-2018, 09:27
I'm extremely happy with my speakers, or, I was until I read this thread. It's now making me wonder what I'm missing out on.
Now, are these big Tannoys any good at more modest volumes (I don't live in a detached house) or is that defeating the purpose?
I rarely listen overly loud, most of my music time is late in the evening, when the family sleep and I live in a terrace.
The sound fills the room even at modest levels.
Beobloke
18-04-2018, 19:57
Hmmm, £500 you say. You might just squeak a pair of Leak 2075s for that with a bit of luck.
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