DAC options

[Steve Toy]

My one-and-only music source is CD at the moment. I use a Bel Canto CD2 player fed by an AOS/TD linear PSU as a transport into one of Duncan Williams (Tubehunter's) awesome DACs.

It is featured here:

http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5763


It is the only Williams DAC that does not have a valve output and uses an opamp instead. It has a CS3497 chip in it and has fantastic detail retrieval and timing.

Unfortunately it lacks some of the richness and bass heft of its valve output brothers. I'd like to remedy this siuation, in particular the leanness in the bass and probably have a number of options as follows:

Change the opamp for one with more bottom end weight but not at the expense of timing and detail.

Get another DAC from Duncan if he is building any. This is my prefered option if available. I've heard Ian Walker's one and it ticks all the boxes.

Get a Beresford and upgrade the power supply and some of the caps by talking nicely to Anthony. I suspect that the Beresford may prove to be something of a trade-off though, good as it is.

Other options?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I have to say I think you and marco underestimate the Beresford Steve!
My caiman although not quite as refined as your current williams dac has a slight edge whn it comes to that missing bit of bass depth! I would have thought from what people say about the recent modds to the caiman that it could come a lot closer to your desired sound than you think

[Steve Toy]

It's an option on the table, Hamish.

[Stratmangler]

I have to say I think you and marco underestimate the Beresford Steve!
My caiman although not quite as refined as your current williams dac has a slight edge whn it comes to that missing bit of bass depth! I would have thought from what people say about the recent modds to the caiman that it could come a lot closer to your desired sound than you think

Don't forget that your Caiman is an early one - the Caiman PSU was not available at the time, and this is an upgrade option to you.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

You can have a comparative listen to my standard caiman next time steve!

[Marco]

I have to say I think you and marco underestimate the Beresford Steve!


Oi, where have I underestimated the Beresford? :)

It is *very* good for the money, but quite a bit behind my heavily Audiocom-modified Sony DAS-R1, as you would expect, which costs 12 times what the Beresford does (for all the right reasons!)

This is the benchmark Steve is aiming for....

I think what Steve should do is hang tight and wait for Duncan to build the new DACs he's currently working on, and which purportedly will be even better than the one of Ian's he heard at Scalford ;)

Marco.

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi
Steve should hang on till the new audiolab dac makes an appearance, by all accounts it should be very good.Might even get one myself and by all accounts cheaper than the copper dacs.
Dave.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

Do you think it's likely to get near the Sony, though, which you've heard? Bear in mind that this is the type of sound Steve is looking for, so what he ends up with must be as close to what the Sony sounds like as possible :)

Marco.

[Joe]

He should stop faffing about and get a Chord DAC64.

[Gazjam]

I have to say I think you and marco underestimate the Beresford Steve!
My caiman although not quite as refined as your current williams dac has a slight edge whn it comes to that missing bit of bass depth! I would have thought from what people say about the recent modds to the caiman that it could come a lot closer to your desired sound than you think

Totally taking Marco and Steves point..but have to agree with Hamish too.
The recent Upgrades have turned the standard Bdac into a very different beast indeed.

The new Weiss is getting good press, as in the *coff* Naim Dac? :)

Gaz.

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi Marco
Couldnt really say regarding comparison to the sony,but Avinash and I will be having a listen soon as.I have a marant cd 94 ,in your view how does this shape up to the sony?Steves wellcome to try this if he likes.
Dave.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

Dunno - I haven't heard a CD94 for years, but would imagine its built-in DAC is not quite in the Sony's league.

Let me know how you get on with the Audiolab and if it's any good I'll have a listen :cool:

Marco.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I read about this audiolad thing somewhere else ... Expensive? Whats the score? Learn me more! :)

[Joe]

I dunno about expensive, but it's been 'on the horizon' for, what, three years now, so it's a 'don't hold your breath' type thing.

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi
Coming soon,as they say about £400 so they say.
Dave.

[Themis]

My one-and-only music source is CD at the moment. I use a Bel Canto CD2 player fed by an AOS/TD linear PSU as a transport into one of Duncan Williams (Tubehunter's) awesome DACs.

It is featured here:

http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5763


It is the only Williams DAC that does not have a valve output and uses an opamp instead. It has a CS3497 chip in it and has fantastic detail retrieval and timing.

Unfortunately it lacks some of the richness and bass heft of its valve output brothers. I'd like to remedy this siuation, in particular the leanness in the bass and probably have a number of options as follows:

Change the opamp for one with more bottom end weight but not at the expense of timing and detail.

Get another DAC from Duncan if he is building any. This is my prefered option if available. I've heard Ian Walker's one and it ticks all the boxes.

Get a Beresford and upgrade the power supply and some of the caps by talking nicely to Anthony. I suspect that the Beresford may prove to be something of a trade-off though, good as it is.

Other options?
Hi Steve,

the most cost-effective solution is to wait for a Duncan's upgrade.

Another solution could be to use a tube buffer stage between the dac and the amp. This solution does not replace a full tube output stage, but can counter-balance some (or most) of the opamp's "acidity" problems and lacks in the lows.
A tube buffer can be a multipurpose solution and can later accomodate another dac (Caiman) or another source.
I always have a buffer, "just in case", even when I don't use it on a permanent basis. It has proven very useful in "transient" situations. ;)

[Ali Tait]

Yep,there's an ebay shop called indeed hifi that sells a valve buffer stage for about 50 quid delivered.

[Ali Tait]

Or why not ask Duncan to replace the output stage for a valve one?

[John]

I love the madness of the new Avatar Ali

[Steve Toy]

I intend to wait for Duncan's upgrade if it's still on. I'd rather take this option than get something costing a couple of grand even if such a sum of money were given to me for this purpose.

I think it likely that the opamp is to blame but rather than add a valve buffer stage I'd like someone to recommend a suitable alternative opamp. After all, the Caiman uses opamps and does not lack bass.

Adding a valve output may be an option but for the fact that the cute acrylic case is already rather full.

[Ali Tait]

I love the madness of the new Avatar Ali

Me too! Someone posted it on here and I couldn't resist. :lol:

[Mr. C]

I susect it is one of Pete's (I should co co's) previous projects

[Snoopdog]

Me too! Someone posted it on here and I couldn't resist. :lol:

It could be the cover of an old Tull album!

[John]

It could be the cover of an old Tull album!
Thick as Horns:lolsign:

[Ali Tait]

:lolsign:

[leo]

I intend to wait for Duncan's upgrade if it's still on. I'd rather take this option than get something costing a couple of grand even if such a sum of money were given to me for this purpose.

I think it likely that the opamp is to blame but rather than add a valve buffer stage I'd like someone to recommend a suitable alternative opamp. After all, the Caiman uses opamps and does not lack bass.

Adding a valve output may be an option but for the fact that the cute acrylic case is already rather full.

Without knowing the dac its hard to recommend anything tbh, is it based on one of those CS4398 Ebay dacs ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hi-End-24-192-DAC-DA-CONVERTER-CS8416-CS8421-CS4398-USB_W0QQitemZ120473998808QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item1c0ccf55d8

The only reason I ask is because I do know some of those Chinese dacs based around CS4397/8 had mistakes in the output stage, this is not to suggest all the designs had mistakes but some certainly did

[Ian Walker]

Eh Steve,you could always ask Leo to build you one:)

[leo]

The cases are always a problem for me, Duncans the man for that :)

TBH the CS4397/8 are known to be a little bass light, a valve output stage can help sweeten things and add weight to the lowend.
I've now messed about with a few CS4397 based dacs and found them all to sound decent but compared to a few other designs lacked a little finesse (just my opinion) these was all mainly op-amp though, I also tried a simple discrete which was pretty good, the only valve stage I tried with these chips was the one on the Lampizator site

[SteveW]

I have to say I think you and marco underestimate the Beresford Steve!
My caiman although not quite as refined as your current williams dac has a slight edge whn it comes to that missing bit of bass depth! I would have thought from what people say about the recent modds to the caiman that it could come a lot closer to your desired sound than you think

No...:scratch::scratch::mental::mental:

Now, I'm a big fan of the Caiman. I have one, and a couple of earlier 7510's. I would endorse it at it's price level...it really does punch way above.

But not in the same league as a My Duncan Williams Audio DAC... and certainly not for bass depth.

[StanleyB]

Now, I'm a big fan of the Caiman. I have one, and a couple of earlier 7510's. I would endorse it at it's price level...it really does punch way above.

But not in the same league as a My Duncan Williams Audio DAC... and certainly not for bass depth.
Hamish is referring to results after the recent Caiman mods :).

[SteveW]

Sorry Stan...wasn't aware. I tend to get a bit snow blind by the mods, especially if they don't get a high profile.