MC Cartridge Recommendations For Technics SL1200GR

[Phil Bishop]

Hi Chaps,

I have a lovely new Technics SL1200GR turntable and am looking at MC cartridge recommendations for it. I'm currently using a Nagaoka MP-110 which sounds wonderful but as I have a nice SUT to play around with I'd like to think about a MC cartridge.

The sort of performance I am looking for is more lively and punchy than refined. I would like that boogie factor if possible that makes vinyl an enjoyable experience and is something the Technics excels at.

I have come across two recommendations to date.

The first is the good old Denon 103/103R. I'm confused about this cartridge. Some seem to say it is perfect for the Techie but then there's all the compliance mis-match stuff, adding weight, etc.

The second is the Audio Technica AT33EV/AT33PTG. I don't know much about this but my experience with AT cartridges to date has been excellent.

Any advice appreciated - I'm sticking with the stock arm BTW.

Cheers

Phil

[Bigman80]

Kontrapunkt b *****
ATART 7 *****
AT33PTGII ****
ZYX R100 ****

[Jason P]

Biased ('scuse the pun) but I think the 33PTG is one of the best MCs around for the money. Worked a charm on my modded SL1200 stock arm (fluid damper, Sumiko HS and heavier counterweight). Tracks like a demon - very little phases it. Superb filigree detail and a wide soundstage. Good bass too, and without the slight excitable quality of the OC9.

The DL103 will need extra mass, and that might be a problem with the stock arm in terms of balance. I'm not sure if the eff.mass. figure for the 1200G is the same as the 1200, i suspect it might be slightly in the 103's favour but mass at the headshell is very likely. When set up well they can be a lot of fun though, and the higher variants (103R etc.) are worth considering.

[Phil Bishop]

Thanks Guys, things are stacking up in favour of the 33PTG. I have a heavier headshell and the additional counterweight. I used to have a KAB damper but sold it.

[Bigman80]

Thanks Guys, things are stacking up in favour of the 33PTG. I have a heavier headshell and the additional counterweight. I used to have a KAB damper but sold it.If you do go for a PTG, make sure it's a PTGII. The first itineration isn't as good IMO

There is a softness to the bass in both carts that I couldn't live with. Nothing bad I just prefer a crisper bass. I found the right cart for me, a Kontrapunkt b BUT in terms of pure performance ÷ price, the PTGII can't be beaten.

[Phil Bishop]

Thanks Oliver, noted. Please give my regards to the old place - I'm from W'ton originally (Finchfield) :)

[Bigman80]

Thanks Oliver, noted. Please give my regards to the old place - I'm from W'ton originally (Finchfield) :)Ha! Here in Bushbury [emoji6]

[montesquieu]

If it were me I'd find a way to put an Ortofon SPU on it, even if I had to source a heavier counterweight.

[bob4333]

Biased ('scuse the pun) but I think the 33PTG is one of the best MCs around for the money.............. Tracks like a demon - very little phases it. Superb filigree detail and a wide soundstage. Good bass too, and without the slight excitable quality of the OC9.

Totally support this.

Others will need to comment on it's match for your arm but the 33 PTG II is just as described above. I have both the 33 and the OC9. Both are good but the 33 has the edge in delivering a shimmering, weighty performance without unpleasant side effects.

It's beaten several carts I've had at 2 or 3 times the price and once run in (30 hours min) it'll boogie all night long.

[oldius]

A friend uses an Audio Technica Art-1, the cartridge I use, on a Technics 1210. It is a really high-end design and sounds superb on that deck.

I personally would recommend the AT range. My preference is the OC09 but the PTG is really close to it. It's just about your personal preference.

[worrasf]

Hi Chaps,

I have a lovely new Technics SL1200GR turntable and am looking at MC cartridge recommendations for it. I'm currently using a Nagaoka MP-110 which sounds wonderful but as I have a nice SUT to play around with I'd like to think about a MC cartridge.

The sort of performance I am looking for is more lively and punchy than refined. I would like that boogie factor if possible that makes vinyl an enjoyable experience and is something the Technics excels at.

I have come across two recommendations to date.

The first is the good old Denon 103/103R. I'm confused about this cartridge. Some seem to say it is perfect for the Techie but then there's all the compliance mis-match stuff, adding weight, etc.

The second is the Audio Technica AT33EV/AT33PTG. I don't know much about this but my experience with AT cartridges to date has been excellent.

Any advice appreciated - I'm sticking with the stock arm BTW.

Cheers

Phil

Here's a totally left field recommendation - the Paradox Pulse Guard DL-103R (http://www.paradoxpulse.com). I have one in my SL1210/Jelco TK850S and it is superb - especially if it's "boogy factor" you are after.

[Phil Bishop]

Thanks again chaps. The 33PTG is going to be hard to beat on recommendation and is in the right ballpark price wise although that Pulse Guard DL-103R does sound very interesting :)

[chris@panteg]

Totally support this.

Others will need to comment on it's match for your arm but the 33 PTG II is just as described above. I have both the 33 and the OC9. Both are good but the 33 has the edge in delivering a shimmering, weighty performance without unpleasant side effects.

It's beaten several carts I've had at 2 or 3 times the price and once run in (30 hours min) it'll boogie all night long.

I have the OC9 MLII, do you find it a bit too bright and a touch lean?

[Stratmangler]

Hana SH.
Make life easy by going for something with a healthy output to start with.

[bob4333]

Chris, your description nicely sums up my findings with the OC9 ML II, but at the time I was using it with an LP12 / Ittok II and a TriChord Diablo phono stage.

I later replaced the Linn with a Gyrodec / Technoarm A and the result wasn't a great deal different. A bit thin, no involvement or excitement and certainly not a result that had me coming back for more. It felt as if it was just going through the motions and seemed to lack "body".

I changed the Diablo to an Icon Audio PS 1 (the original, early version) and the difference was night and day. All of the good things the OC9 MLII was famous for started to come through. Next change was to a Michell Orbe SE / SME IV and this continued the good work. I had the chance of an ICON PS3 about 6 months later and went for it. Not a night and day change this time (using the OC9) but a sweeter top end response and maybe a little more attack elsewhere.

All of this makes me seem like an uncontrollable box swapper but this took place over about 15 years. Every piece of kit mentioned is really well respected and extremely capable in it's own right and I'm not knocking any of it. My only conclusion is that you can't just throw these things together and expect them to give of their best. Selective partnering is paramount.

Anyway, I rate the OC9 highly enough to have kept it rather than selling it on. I also have a lot of respect and confidence in AT cartridges generally, but perhaps they are a bit selective in who they like to play with. I think some of their more upmarket carts are appealing and I'll probably give one a go at some point, but usual rules apply.

[chris@panteg]

Chris, your description nicely sums up my findings with the OC9 ML II, but at the time I was using it with an LP12 / Ittok II and a TriChord Diablo phono stage.

I later replaced the Linn with a Gyrodec / Technoarm A and the result wasn't a great deal different. A bit thin, no involvement or excitement and certainly not a result that had me coming back for more. It felt as if it was just going through the motions and seemed to lack "body".

I changed the Diablo to an Icon Audio PS 1 (the original, early version) and the difference was night and day. All of the good things the OC9 MLII was famous for started to come through. Next change was to a Michell Orbe SE / SME IV and this continued the good work. I had the chance of an ICON PS3 about 6 months later and went for it. Not a night and day change this time (using the OC9) but a sweeter top end response and maybe a little more attack elsewhere.

All of this makes me seem like an uncontrollable box swapper but this took place over about 15 years. Every piece of kit mentioned is really well respected and extremely capable in it's own right and I'm not knocking any of it. My only conclusion is that you can't just throw these things together and expect them to give of their best. Selective partnering is paramount.

Anyway, I rate the OC9 highly enough to have kept it rather than selling it on. I also have a lot of respect and confidence in AT cartridges generally, but perhaps they are a bit selective in who they like to play with. I think some of their more upmarket carts are appealing and I'll probably give one a go at some point, but usual rules apply.

Thanks Bob, very interesting and good advice, you know I had the Trichord Diablo with the NCPSU, it never really blew my skirt up to be honest, impressive but very matter of fact.
I'm not going to be too critical of the oc9, for the money £310 that I paid it's excellent and I will keep it, I intend to get a valve phono stage this year along with another Triode amplifier.

I've decided my next cartridge will be a Hana SL

[chris@panteg]

Hana SH.
Make life easy by going for something with a healthy output to start with.

Hi Chris
I intend to get the Hana SL fairly soon.

[bob4333]

Thanks Bob, very interesting and good advice, you know I had the Trichord Diablo with the NCPSU, it never really blew my skirt up to be honest, impressive but very matter of fact.
I'm not going to be too critical of the oc9, for the money £310 that I paid it's excellent and I will keep it, I intend to get a valve phono stage this year along with another Triode amplifier.

I've decided my next cartridge will be a Hana SL

Chris, with a good valve phono stage I suspect you're in for a game changing experience.

People that have a "33 PTG II" also speak very highly of the Hana so maybe there are some traits in common. I'd definitely do the phono stage first and see what the OC9 is trying to tell you.

Good luck with the changes. It's never easy with cart swapping.

[hifi_dave]

The Hana and AT33PTG/II have more weight, body and presence than some of the scrawny MCs out there.

[chris@panteg]

The Hana and AT33PTG/II have more weight, body and presence than some of the scrawny MCs out there.

That's what I'm thinking Dave, I've got a 33EV but it's fairly worn out, loss of sparkle but it does have a lot more body and bass weight than the OC9 MLII which sounds a bit anaemic in comparison, though still impressive in terms of tracking and detail.

I have a bit of a problem with my Marantz KI Pearl lite in that the line inputs are 20k, I want to get the puresound P10 but this will not work with a 20k input I believe.

So changes needed for me this year.

[opt817]

That's what I'm thinking Dave, I've got a 33EV but it's fairly worn out, loss of sparkle but it does have a lot more body and bass weight than the OC9 MLII which sounds a bit anaemic in comparison, though still impressive in terms of tracking and detail.

I have a bit of a problem with my Marantz KI Pearl lite in that the line inputs are 20k, I want to get the puresound P10 but this will not work with a 20k input I believe.

So changes needed for me this year.

I'm also in process buying Technics SL 1200GR. My question is about comparison of 3 affordable MC's : NOS SAE 1000LT vs new Hana SL/SH vs AT33PTGmk2. Which one of them will have more weight, body and presence on stock arm of 1200GR?

[chris@panteg]

I'm also in process buying Technics SL 1200GR. My question is about comparison of 3 affordable MC's : NOS SAE 1000LT vs new Hana SL/SH vs AT33PTGmk2. Which one of them will have more weight, body and presence on stock arm of 1200GR?

I do believe that the 33PTG II would be fine, go for it.

[bob4333]

I'm also in process buying Technics SL 1200GR. My question is about comparison of 3 affordable MC's : NOS SAE 1000LT vs new Hana SL/SH vs AT33PTGmk2. Which one of them will have more weight, body and presence on stock arm of 1200GR?

Can't comment on the Hana but I have the other two:-

SAE 1000LT:

Huge dynamic range majoring on a taught, controlled bottom end. Made by Coral in Japan circa 1970's. Maybe not the final word in top end finesse but you won't mind - you'll be too busy smiling.

AT 33 PTG II:

Not as "boogyish" as the SAE but probably a bit more refined and a bit sweeter at the top. Still with plenty of control in the bass though.

If I could have the bottom half of the SAE and the top of the 33 I think I'd be there.

Both of these cartridges offer a massive soundstage when partnered well and presence flows from that. I guess your choice depends on what you're looking for but I'd say you couldn't go wrong with either.

[opt817]

Can't comment on the Hana but I have the other two:-

SAE 1000LT:

Huge dynamic range majoring on a taught, controlled bottom end. Made by Coral in Japan circa 1970's. Maybe not the final word in top end finesse but you won't mind - you'll be too busy smiling.

AT 33 PTG II:

Not as "boogyish" as the SAE but probably a bit more refined and a bit sweeter at the top. Still with plenty of control in the bass though.

If I could have the bottom half of the SAE and the top of the 33 I think I'd be there.

Both of these cartridges offer a massive soundstage when partnered well and presence flows from that. I guess your choice depends on what you're looking for but I'd say you couldn't go wrong with either.

Thanks for recommendation for SAE1000lt and AT 33 PTG II. My question is for recommending me good budget SUT (Step Up Transformer) suitable for AT 33 PTG II? SAE 1000LT is HOMC, so can go directly to MM input.

[chris@panteg]

Thanks for recommendation for SAE1000lt and AT 33 PTG II. My question is for recommending me good budget SUT (Step Up Transformer) suitable for AT 33 PTG II? SAE 1000LT is HOMC, so can go directly to MM input.

I have the Puresound T10 SUT, it works superbly well with the audio technica mc cartridges, AT33EV OC9 MLII, and will be ideal with the 33PTG II.

[bob4333]

Being a High Output MC the SAE at 2.5mV can go straight into your MM input. Mine does. Spec here: http://www.jims-sae-site.com/sae_phono.htm

The 33 is a different matter, as you rightly conclude.

You can go with a SUT or a Headamp. I've used a Rothwell Headspace Moving Coil Headamp to great effect (I still have it). http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/headspace_mc_headamp.html

The great benefit here is that you can change the Gain and Impedance settings inside via dip switches, so you're not tied to a single cartridge. I'm not the greatest authority on SUT's but most are built with a particular set of parameters in mind and may restrict future cartridge choices.

The argument of SUT vs Headamp is well aired. You can find a lot on AOS regarding the subject using the search function.

[opt817]

Being a High Output MC the SAE at 2.5mV can go straight into your MM input. Mine does. Spec here: http://www.jims-sae-site.com/sae_phono.htm

The 33 is a different matter, as you rightly conclude.

You can go with a SUT or a Headamp. I've used a Rothwell Headspace Moving Coil Headamp to great effect (I still have it). http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/headspace_mc_headamp.html

The great benefit here is that you can change the Gain and Impedance settings inside via dip switches, so you're not tied to a single cartridge. I'm not the greatest authority on SUT's but most are built with a particular set of parameters in mind and may restrict future cartridge choices.

The argument of SUT vs Headamp is well aired. You can find a lot on AOS regarding the subject using the search function.

I'm more tempted with SAE100LT or E version of MC cartridge, because of fun factor! I also have tube preamp EAR 834P, which should work well with output of 2.5mV. Price level is the same as AT PTG33 mk2, plus I don't have to buy SUT.

[bob4333]

There are plenty of comments and reviews of the SAE on the internet and I haven't seen a bad one yet. Likewise the 33 is just as well received.

The only things I can add are that the SAE is slightly to the "warm" side of neutral so if your system is sounding coolish this will help. Likewise if you already have any concerns that things are already too warm then the 33 could be just the thing to address the condition. This is really fine tuning though and shouldn't deflect your choice.

Oh, and if you use isopropyl alcohol for stylus cleaning keep it away from the red cover on the SAE 'cause it'll shrivel and melt it (found that out the hard way). Cartridge'll still work fine though.

[allthingsanalogue]

Make sure you can get the 33ptg low enough as it’s only 16mm in height and the arm is from 17-23mm. Of course a thicker mat will solve this!