WTD low cost but decent DAC

[bobvfr]

OK looks like I have a few pennies spare (Not a fortune though) and Richer Sounds are doing the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100 in black for £129.

Anyone got anything else for sale that sounds good, but at a lower price than that.

Initially it will go into my Quad 405/33.

I can travel a few miles around the Fenland area, alternatively I am often in the Heathrow and London area and points in between.

I will consider anything?

[MikeMusic]

Take a look around for a Beresford.
Should be a few 2nd hand around

[Firebottle]

You could go with the Xiang Sheng Dac 01A that is available for under 100 notes and gives a very good account of itself.

[Sherwood]

I have a Musical Fidelity V-Dac in excellent condition. Could do for £70 including delivery. Excellent sound

[jandl100]

You could go with the Xiang Sheng Dac 01A that is available for under 100 notes and gives a very good account of itself.

+1

An amazing DAC imo.
It's horses for courses, as usual, and all a matter of opinion, but imho I've not heard a better DAC and I've owned loads up to £3k rrp.

There was a seller in Belgium, but he seems to have run out of stock.
Here's the cheapest atm on eBay from China https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XiangSheng-DAC-01A-DAC-Tube-24Bit-192Khz-USB-Decoder-Headphone-Pre-Amplifier/282900278274?hash=item41de2bac02:g:BCwAAOSwtXBauKi 8
You can get them in black as well.

It's got a very decent headphone amp as well, but probably best to run it without the pre-amp section (internal jumpers and it arrives without the preamp setting on).

[Firebottle]

It's horses for courses, as usual, and all a matter of opinion, but imho I've not heard a better DAC and I've owned loads up to £3k rrp.

You've not been listening to the right DACs then Jerry, but my current one is £2K new :eek:

[jandl100]

You've not been listening to the right DACs then Jerry, but my current one is £2K new :eek:

:lol:
More than enough. ;)
The XS is a DAC-for-life as far as I am concerned.
I moved my first one on, and spent silly money on well-reviewed DACs that don't hold a candle to the XS for me.

Wattya got, then?

[Bigman80]

[emoji38]
More than enough. ;)
The XS is a DAC-for-life as far as I am concerned.
I moved my first one on, and spent silly money on well-reviewed DACs that don't hold a candle to the XS for me.

Wattya got, then?Jerry, I do have a suspicion that some of these XS aren't all equal. I'm inclined to believe that yours is excellent but the one I heard was glassy and to be honest, very fatiguing. That one happened to be Al's.

I recently picked up a M2TECH Young and it is much much better than the XS of Alan's.

I also read there are different Circuit boards in the 01 DAC range too. I think they are a bit of a lottery.

[jandl100]

Interesting.
Fair enough.
I've had two now, both with the same sonic signature.
Perhaps I like 'glassy', although I would call it classy!

I've had a Young. It didn't stay long.

[Firebottle]

I've now got a Bel Canto Dac3 plumbed in. In comparison the XS is splashy in the treble and ill defined in the bass.

[brian2957]

Well , I must say that mines sounds excellent too , particularly with the Reflektor valve Jerry gave me :)

[struth]

Well , I must sat that mines sounds excellent too , particularly with the Reflektor valve Jerry gave me :)

pleased with mine and wont be changing it either

[User211]

IMHO the XS is way better than a Young. I had Jerry's in my system and it produced a pretty spatially flat soundstage and was overly clinical.

Firebottle does have a different board revision to mine and I assume Jerry's.

I don't think I am going to be able to resist buying the 05B, best price is on AliExpress.

It isn't as much fun as my Lampizator Big 7, and valve rolling isn't as easy and nor does it produce such diversified results. But with a WE 396A in it I think it is unbelievable for the money.

EDIT: the caveats are it is rubbish in preamp mode, and the distortion you hear when you jack the preamp volume up becomes extremely heavy. It sounds poor in this mode even at lower volume settings.

Also, it isn't entirely clean. I hear distortion, particularly in the bass, which just isn't there with other DACs. Only on some material, though. It sounds similar in nature to the distortion that creeps in when you run in preamp mode and jack the volume up slowly. But again that mode just sounds shite anyway.

Still with a lot of material it does sound really good - for the money.

[jandl100]

So. Is it really good for the money, or unbelievable for the money?
Make your mind up! ;)

[User211]

So. Is it really good for the money, or unbelievable for the money?
Make your mind up! ;)It is almost unbelievable. I think the output stage is driven into a mild clipping state even in standard DAC mode that is only apparent on some music.

If the 05B kills that problem and sounds as good generally, I think that would be the bargain of the century even at double the price. Or 5 times the price. Or more.

I am with you Jerry I think it is fabulous in many senses but flawed. Everything is flawed, though, anyway.

Just sayin'. I am not sure if this distortion would be so obvious on cone speakers. I might try it in my second system, but somehow I am skeptical I will hear it on the M&Ds.

Anyway, at least one other person has encountered this issue. It ain't just me.

[jandl100]

I don't hear a bass issue on my MBLs, but then I'm not into megabass music in the way that you are.

[Bigman80]

IMHO the XS is way better than a Young. I had Jerry's in my system and it produced a pretty spatially flat soundstage and was overly clinical.

Firebottle does have a different board revision to mine and I assume Jerry's.

I don't think I am going to be able to resist buying the 05B, best price is on AliExpress.

It isn't as much fun as my Lampizator Big 7, and valve rolling isn't as easy and nor does it produce such diversified results. But with a WE 396A in it I think it is unbelievable for the money.

EDIT: the caveats are it is rubbish in preamp mode, and the distortion you hear when you jack the preamp volume up becomes extremely heavy. It sounds poor in this mode even at lower volume settings.

Also, it isn't entirely clean. I hear distortion, particularly in the bass, which just isn't there with other DACs. Only on some material, though. It sounds similar in nature to the distortion that creeps in when you run in preamp mode and jack the volume up slowly. But again that mode just sounds shite anyway.

Still with a lot of material it does sound really good - for the money.After reading your post, I decided to have a lend of a XS and see how it compares to the M2TECH Young in my system.

Truth is it doesn't. The M2TECH gives a much wider and deeper soundstage. It has better timbral reproduction from strings and overall has a much richer tone.

The XS (although ridiculously good value) hasn't got the ability to not sound like a digital component which is where the M2TECH really does well. The XS sounds thin and grainy. I will concede that resolution is astounding for the price and there is plenty of definition but it just sounds thinner and fatiguing.

Results will vary between ears and houses but here, the XS is back in the box and will be on its way back to the owner shortly. The M2TECH is staying put.

On Tube out (modified) it's better in terms of fatigue and richness but the soundstage isn't improving. It's just not as good as the M2TECH to my ears. I can see why it's doing so well in terms of sales, the VFM is outrageous!

[Idlewithnodrive]

I also have the XS01A. It replaced my Micromega MyDac, but not by much and the MyDac did some things better. Yes, it's probably the best DAC for the money, although I've not heard them all, by a long stretch, but it's certainly not a "giant killer", imo.

[jandl100]

Hmm. Perplexing!

I guess we will probably never know whether we are hearing the same things and have different opinions about it or whether there are substantially different sounding versions of the XS 01A and we really are hearing different things!

Justin and I do have broadly similar tastes - we have heard different incarnations of each others systems several times over the past few years and I think there has always been enjoyment and enthusiasm for the other's system.
As to whether I would like Oli's, Alan's or Mike's systems, I have no idea, never having heard them!

[jandl100]

.... I wonder, have the XS 01A dissenters all been using the stock valves?
Significant improvements are to be had by subbing the valve of your choice.
Justin likes the WE equivalent (I have yet to try the one he loaned me) and Brian and I like Reflektor.

[Idlewithnodrive]

Mine is fitted with a GE5670.

[Bigman80]

There is a Telefunken in this one. I'm afraid that's about as good as valves get IME!!

It's a fickle habit this hifi lark BUT we can only go on what we like. It's all good!! We like what we like!!

[User211]

Just swapped in the Frenchie after playing Ernest Ranglin Below The Baseline track King Tubby Meets The Rockers.

This completely fuxks the Xiang but the Frenchie gets a clean bill of health.

Then the batteries ran out in the Frenchie and I can't find the charger. I will do though.

Cheap DACs. WTF? I am missing the Lampi though the Xiang has surprised me.

Like the Young post above. Proof we're on different planets.

We aren't comparing like with like. Engineers are always trying to do better. I know I am one. Board revs and staff change in these companies. And our systems are completely different. No surprise there is no commonality of viewpoint.

[Idlewithnodrive]

we can only go on what we like. It's all good!! We like what we like!!

Exactly this. I listen to so little dots and bleeps music that the XS is perfectly good enough.

[Bigman80]

Exactly this. I listen to so little dots and bleeps music that the XS is perfectly good enough.Absolutely! There's no right or wrong in this game.

[User211]

Newness is good whereas familiarity breeds contempt. That's the best reason for liking a highly configurable DAC.

That's why I like the Lampi. It is just so variable on demand.

But the Xiang is vaguely sonically changeable for very little dosh. That's pretty cool.

And on some material it really works. On others it falls flat on it's face. But then most components seem to display similar traits.

A balance of compromise and discovery I guess. Probably the reason a lot of us get into this hobby. None of us will really win. But some of us will do better than others, at least when judged by our own criteria.

[jandl100]

^^^ Yep.

Although I must admit a Telefunken is not a valve I'd expect to synergise well with the XS.
They tend to the bright and open. So does the XS DAC.
A good recipe for splashy treble tending to graininess, imo. But, in practise, who knows? Not me (until I try it).

Anyway, the OP has probably bought an entirely different DAC by now.
Or upgraded his turntable instead. :lol:

[Bigman80]

^^^ Yep.

Although I must admit a Telefunken is not a valve I'd expect to synergise well with the XS.
They tend to the bright and open. So does the XS DAC.
A good recipe for splashy treble tending to graininess, imo. But, in practise, who knows? Not me (until I try it).

Anyway, the OP has probably bought an entirely different DAC by now.
Or upgraded his turntable instead. [emoji38]Lol,

Good point! I'll put a Tesla in.

[Jimbo]

Sorry to Butt in but I would use a Brimar (darker and cooler sound) or Mullard ( softer and richer) rather than a Tesla which can be forward and clear. Tesla tubes are however one step back from a telefunken.

[lordmortlock]

.... I wonder, have the XS 01A dissenters all been using the stock valves?
Significant improvements are to be had by subbing the valve of your choice.
Justin likes the WE equivalent (I have yet to try the one he loaned me) and Brian and I like Reflektor.

Just to add another dimension to this, and to take the topic even further away from OP, I can’t believe any of you are happy using the XS in valve mode. It’s a superb unit here in SS but horribly veiled with the valve in circuit, irrespective of the glass.

Unless you’ve all snuck off and applied Alan’s mods?? ;)

[struth]

Just to add another dimension to this, and to take the topic even further away from OP, I can’t believe any of you are happy using the XS in valve mode. It’s a superb unit here in SS but horribly veiled with the valve in circuit, irrespective of the glass.

Unless you’ve all snuck off and applied Alan’s mods?? ;)

have to say my valve section sounds fine. maybe i got a nice valve..

[Bigman80]

I just realised I did the comparison in SS mode. No valve applied.

No Tesla required!

This modded units valve output is now rather good but not as clean as the SS side

[brian2957]

I've been using it with the valve output Oliver and the Reflektor valve Jerry gave me was a marked improvement over the original . I haven't gone back to the SS output since I put Jerry's valve in so I will have to listen to it again .

[mikeyb]

Lol mine sounded..... let's say - odd on the valve output side, I think I might have had the same revision as user211, this was as a pre amp. I originally bought the XS to reduce box count and use as a DAC/Pre but I didn't like how it sounded when I was driving it hard so it was sold.

I WAS tempted to buy another to try again until this thread reminded me why I sold the last one, I bought a Promitheus TVC instead [emoji6]

[struth]

looks like the later issues had issues. maybe QC went out the window...they didnt get a good rep for nothing.

[brian2957]

I'm finding that a decent mains cable makes a positive difference to this DAC :)

[jandl100]

Just to add another dimension to this, and to take the topic even further away from OP, I can’t believe any of you are happy using the XS in valve mode. It’s a superb unit here in SS but horribly veiled with the valve in circuit, irrespective of the glass.

Unless you’ve all snuck off and applied Alan’s mods?? ;)

Differences aren't that marked for me, I like the ss output with small scale works but tend to move to valve for big scale orchestral.
I have them connected to different inputs on my preamp, so it's just a twiddle on the remote to change between them. :)

[User211]

I agree the difference between the solid state and valve outputs just isn't massive - they are much less different than I was expecting.

I just had Tom around (montesquieu) around and when we switched to his Schitt Modi there was a big difference in sound. Far more than the difference between the SS and valve outputs of the Xiang.

The Schitt is considerably cleaner sounding, not as warm and cuddly and spacious as the Xiang, though.

This DAC is really polarising opinion. The disparity in user accounts of its performance are quite puzzling. When we talk speakers on here there at least seems to be some common agreement!

[lordmortlock]

Interested in this, as there is a real difference between the two modes here. Could be quality control I guess, but more likely to be equipment matching? I’ll try a different power amp and see if the difference is as pronounced.

[bobvfr]

Getting back on track, now sorted, I went with Sherwoods (Geoff) offer, just sent the money and the DAC should be in the post on it's way.

Now to get the Quad 33/405 from the spare room and replace the Pioneer receiver for the time being, as I am looking for a minimalist system, the Quad setup could well be replaced by the Cyrus One later on in the year if funds allow, but for now the Quad will do, just got to hide the power amp and the DAC out of the way.

[Sherwood]

Getting back on track, now sorted, I went with Sherwoods (Geoff) offer, just sent the money and the DAC should be in the post on it's way.

Now to get the Quad 33/405 from the spare room and replace the Pioneer receiver for the time being, as I am looking for a minimalist system, the Quad setup could well be replaced by the Cyrus One later on in the year if funds allow, but for now the Quad will do, just got to hide the power amp and the DAC out of the way.

Indeed, the DAC is already winging its way to CAMBS courtesy of Royal Mail! :hotrod:

[bobvfr]

V DAC arrived in the post about midday but I was busy in the garden (Well it ain't raining), just unwrapped it, unplugged the Pioneer and set up the Quad 33 and 405 and put the V DAC inline.

I think I need to adjust the disc input board on the pre amp, I have it playing Kate Bush "Hounds of Love" on volume nob setting 2 and it's already louder than the Pioneer on about 40% volume.

Having said that, you can instantly tell the difference between the Pioneer and the Quads, there is a "Threat" to the music, a deeper bass, just more of it, even at the lowest volume nob setting ;-)

Both sets of neighbours are in and one of them has a sick 1 year old, so I want be able to give it a full test tonight.


Are you a professional "Wrapper" Geoff?

[Lawrence001]

Isn't the disc input a phono level (high gain plus RIAA) input for a turntable?

[bobvfr]

I had the board conversion for CD input back in about 1990 when I got the Quad from a friend, there are three input levels available by moving screws to the desired input, haven't done the adjustment yet as the first track of Tubular Bells has just finished and now Suppers Ready is playing.

Will look at it tomorrow, just hope the neighbours are going out at the same time over the weekend :-)

[Sherwood]

V DAC arrived in the post about midday but I was busy in the garden (Well it ain't raining), just unwrapped it, unplugged the Pioneer and set up the Quad 33 and 405 and put the V DAC inline.

I think I need to adjust the disc input board on the pre amp, I have it playing Kate Bush "Hounds of Love" on volume nob setting 2 and it's already louder than the Pioneer on about 40% volume.

Having said that, you can instantly tell the difference between the Pioneer and the Quads, there is a "Threat" to the music, a deeper bass, just more of it, even at the lowest volume nob setting ;-)

Both sets of neighbours are in and one of them has a sick 1 year old, so I want be able to give it a full test tonight.


Are you a professional "Wrapper" Geoff?

Glad to hear it arrived safely and is performing well. Even though the V-Dac is an older design it definitely stands up well against modern DACs.

Not a professional "wrapper" but perhaps a gifted amateur. Spent most of the last 20 years working overseas so highly experienced in packing for moving without too many casualities! :)

[bobvfr]

Just an update, I have cured the volume issue.

My source as mentioned is an Xbox One X (Plays, CD's, 4k Blu-Ray's, any form of online stuff like Netflix, Amazon, standard TV, FLAC format files and allows me to Mira-Cast from my other devices) using HDMI to connect to my 4k TV, then I take optical from the TV to the DAC and finally Phono's to the Quad and off to the Tannoy's.

I looked through the TV's settings and found I can decrease the output signal to the optical output by single digit DB's from 1 to 10, doing this has allowed the Quad to be turned up to 3 on the volume control and be acceptable for TV and of course if I want to shake the house I can still turn the amp up to 10.

If I needed more I can easily increase the decibel count via the TV's setting as and when required.

More than happy with the setup now.