Any thoughts on sacd

[paulf-2007]

Never heard any and as half speed mastered vinyl is thin in the ground was wondering if sacd is worth buying. Also what is hybrid sacd.

[Stratmangler]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD

[paulf-2007]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD
That seems clear enough

[struth]

as long as they are hybrid they will work on both cd and sacd machines. not noticed much difference between layers but often the mastering of both is better

[Stratmangler]

As for SACDs sounding better than CD - it's all in the mastering.
A better master is a better master. Format has little to do with it.

[paulf-2007]

Like half speed mastered vinyl sounds better provided the master is good to start with. Some recordings are crap to begin with. The reason I asked is that some classical vinyl I'm looking for may not be in mint condition even though sellers have this strange grading system where something that sounds like rice crispies is said to be excellent. Any noise is of no use to me, hence looking for cd despite its decline.

Looking at vinyl today and it's graded as mint (-) it's either mint or it's not end of

[Stratmangler]

Do you have a RCM?

[Spectral Morn]

As for SACDs sounding better than CD - it's all in the mastering.
A better master is a better master. Format has little to do with it.

That does unfortunately cause issues re comparisons, but the same is true of comparing CDs and vinyl a bad or compressed master will make it more difficult to know if its the recording sounding better or the equipment/format.

After years of fiddling around with SACD I feel it does sound better, as did DVD A, than Red Book CD, but ultimately I feel vinyl does more, even though it like most things is flawed. SACD is flawed re the higher noise rates which must have some effect regardless of how high up the frequencies are or how they are shaped.

Super Tweeters even though their operation scope is far up the frequency range have an effect when added or taken away, its audible so SACD noise must be audible, in some way even if it shouldn't be. Question is, is it the noise that makes it sound better to some.

Regardless of the technology, its short comings I like SACD discs. Not tried DSD files yet, as such, as I don't really own/have any. I do have the equipment to play them and decode them. Something for the future.

[paulf-2007]

Do you have a RCM?
Yes, DIY with VPI 16.5 suction piece. I bought a supposedly good copy of supertramp that looked ok but was obviously worn and had surface noise that couldn't be cleaned away. Some sellers don't bother to listen before they grade them.
I saw something yesterday that I wanted, seller said mint but has some surface noise, not mint then.

[struth]

Some carts are more prone to surface noise. The original supertramPs were noisy anyway

[Macca]

Some records have surface noise from new. If it was always there does that mean it isn't mint? It's still 'as new' after all.

[Barry]

Record dealers have their own strange way of classifying and grading the condition of a record. For them 'mint' means 'as new', whereas of course mint should mean new, un-played (and still sealed). The pecking order is usually: Mint; Mint -; Excellent +; Excellent; Excellent -, etc. I never go for anything less than 'Excellent +', but even then it can turn out to be crap.

When it comes to camera gear, the dealers usually provide a guide to their grading system, which IMO, gives one a much better idea of the condition.

[paulf-2007]

I bought a half speed mastered copy of said supertramp and it's silent between tracks.

[paulf-2007]

Some records have surface noise from new. If it was always there does that mean it isn't mint? It's still 'as new' after all.
Well if it was always there I wouldn't know unless I bought it new and it would go back if it wasn't right.

[struth]

It heard the hsm ones but the speakers corner one I had was awesome

[paulf-2007]

It heard the hsm ones but the speakers corner one I had was awesome
All the hsm I have and their aren't many, are fantastic

[Alanbeeb]

Vinyl is a rotten format for classical music, any surface noise ruins it. And I've never met any LP that didn't have some surface noise on it somewhere.

Howver, when its good... it is very very good and I've got a few classical LPs that bring huge enjoyment. But the majority are frustrating, and I have a huge pile on their way to a charity shop so they can frustrate someone else!

So Hi-res digital is the way to go for classical music, I've had an SACD player since about 2001 and now have about 300ish classical SACDs, almost all of which I have now copied to DSF files and loaded onto my Vortexbox server, and I'm very happy about how my Oppo HA-1 DAC/preamp turns them into music.

There are plenty of classical SACDs still being released, it is still a valid format.... but if I was starting now with hi-res classical, I wouldn't bother with a disc player, I would just download hi-res files from the web.... there are lots of new releases, and quite a few analogue remasterings available at 96/24 or 192/24 resolution. Most new recordings available on SACD have actually been converted from hi-res PCM recordings.

Prestoclassical have a huge range of FLAC files available for download, in addition to physical media.
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/formats/hi-res

[Qwin]

OP........

CD is PCM format.

SACD is basically a DSD format and higher resolution than CD.

Both PCM and DSD have higher resolutions available, than the applications in these two formats.

Your DAC will be either a PCM or a DSD device. There are the odd few exotic machines that run both systems parallel in the same unit, but generally it will be one or the other.

A PCM DAC converts DSD real time to PCM. A DSD DAC converts PCM realtime to DSD.

Many DAC's use poor conversion, so native format/device is often best.
So if, if you play CD's PCM is best, and for all the, mainly, DSD downloads or SACD, DSD is best. There are always exceptions, I am just generalizing.

Most studios record/mix/master in PCM and convert to DSD at the end. It wasn't possible to mix DSD until quite recently, the software didn't exist, but a few niche studios are doing so, there are exceptions to everything in audio. My point here is that the more conversion processes you go through, the more likely the sound will be effected, though not a given.

My advice would be to get a multi format disc spinner that will play BlueRay, SACD, CD, CDR, CDRW, MP3 etc, a stand alone SACD player wont do all of this. The recently retired OPPO manufacturer made excellent machines if you want used and Cambridge Audio make some nice units too.

[paulf-2007]

I have a denon DVD 1930, plays sacd. It's rarely used as I prefer vinyl and Spotify when I'm listening whilst doing other stuff. Despite people saying cd is a dying format, I don't believe it is dying any more than vinyl. Youngsters may listen on phones but there will always be those like ourselves that want more.