Naim speaker cables??

[Bigbird]

Hi guys,

Iv been pretty busy over here the last few months putting together a linn LP12(picture on my profile).
Managed to snag an ortofon rondo red cart from a needle docotr in germany (axel schurholz??) who had upgraded it with a nude shibata. And i have to say im blown away by the improvements over my RP6 and soundsmith cart. Its incredible... All the extra saturdays have really paid off.

Iv now moved onto the amplification side and have picked up a minty clean, newly serviced naim nac 72 ,hicap, and wil try find a power amp in the coming weeks . Possibly. 180 or 250 if i can stretch the budget or find a billy bargain.

Iv been reading that i should only use the naim nac a5 cables but it seems a bit pricey at nearly 200 quid for a pair of the recommended 3.5m lengths . Is there anything else out there that i can use that wont break the bank and stil sound good??

Cheers
Karl

[jandl100]

Wow :stalks:
That LP12 plinth looks stunning! :thumbsup:

Older Naim power amps need NACA5 type speaker cables to keep the circuit stable (and not blow up!).

[Ammonite Audio]

Naim speaker cables often come up in the classified ads, at pretty sensible prices. I still choose to use NAC A5 cables even though I no longer have a Naim amp in the system - these are very good cables by any standard, and although awkwardly stiff, would still be my logical choice.

[Bigbird]

Thanks mate i went for santos rosewood. Lovely character.
Yeah im aware of the capacitance issue was just wondering if anything else out there did the job as well?

[Bigbird]

Ok i shall keep my eyes peeled mate, cheers . Would prefer to use naim as it was designed for the job , just dont like the price ha. Iv read linn cable is usable but not sure on how it would sound?

[hifi_dave]

Early Naim amps needed a minimum of 3.5 mtr of their own or similar cable to prevent them going unstable. Later ones are safe with any cable which isn't highly capacitive. A good one, which doesn't cost the earth and is easier to work with and hide than NACA, is Talk 3 at £4/mtr.

[Bigbird]

Thanks Dave , i shall have a look. Does it perform aswell as the naim cable or shall i stop being a tight git and get my hand in my pocket ha

[Yomanze]

Van Damme HiFi is an excellent alternative for NACA5, which I use with an ancient Exposure amplifier. Due to its shotgun spaced construction it has the very low capacitance and moderate inductance that older Naim, Exposure & current #### amps like.

[Bigbird]

Thanks for the reply mate i will add that to the list of possibilities ����

[hifi_dave]

Thanks Dave , i shall have a look. Does it perform aswell as the naim cable or shall i stop being a tight git and get my hand in my pocket ha

The NACA is nothing special and now very expensive for what it is. Obviously, you will get a different answer from the Naim forum.

[paulf-2007]

Ok i shall keep my eyes peeled mate, cheers . Would prefer to use naim as it was designed for the job , just dont like the price ha. Iv read linn cable is usable but not sure on how it would sound?
It was designed to take money off gullible audiophools

[Bigbird]

Do you have any recommendations for an alternative.?

[Scooby]

I'd try Linn K20.

Going back to the time these cables were first made, Naim were having NAC A4 made for them (by BICC?) after JV discovered its properties worked with his amps. It started out as a lighting installation cable: The sort they used for things like Blackpool illuminations. Linn went to the same supplier and had a very similar cable made, which they introduced as K20. It does sound very slightly different to A4 and has slightly different outer material.

Naim then had A5 made to a slightly different spec, which they claimed was ideal for their amps. It does have a different tonal balance (brighter and sharper I'd say) but differences are more a matter of taste than outright quality.

The thing is, these spaced conductor cables (Linn, Naim, Kelvin, Exposure and Cable Talk) were all very similar and only cost £2-2.50 a metre at the time. Fast forward to today and those that remain are not massively more expensive......except Naim who have hiked their price massively.

You will have to draw your own conclusions about it being worthwhile bit I would echo the sentiments above and only buy a used set. It's far too expensive new for what it is.

[paulf-2007]

Do you have any recommendations for an alternative.?
Twin and earth mains cable, 2 core flex preferably 1.5mm or bigger to reduce resistance. I've used both and cat 5 before other versions were available. All do the same thing. For those that to want spend their hard earned on fancy named cable, fair enough, but it's a waste of money, it's your money.

[Pharos]

This subject is to me both interesting and a can of worms.

In the 70s I bought mains twin, (2.5mm, brown and blue in a white outer), and everyone heard the improvement over a smaller version. We concluded that it was the lowering of resistance. (Tannoy speakers).

In the last few years I have used QED Silver Signature, three Kimber cables, the last being 4TC and 8TC, and now use a mid price Ecosse on my passives.

They do all sound subtly different, but the 8TC produced a really odd sound, loss of top focus, and increased bass, unfathomable.

[Yomanze]

This subject is to me both interesting and a can of worms.

In the 70s I bought mains twin, (2.5mm, brown and blue in a white outer), and everyone heard the improvement over a smaller version. We concluded that it was the lowering of resistance. (Tannoy speakers).

In the last few years I have used QED Silver Signature, three Kimber cables, the last being 4TC and 8TC, and now use a mid price Ecosse on my passives.

They do all sound subtly different, but the 8TC produced a really odd sound, loss of top focus, and increased bass, unfathomable.

Those Kimbers have high capacitance, a MASSIVE 346 pF / meter for the 8TC. A very easy way to make cables sound different, and will blow up some hairshirt amps.

[Mike Reed]

Twin and earth mains cable, 2 core flex preferably 1.5mm or bigger to reduce resistance. I've used both and cat 5 before other versions were available. All do the same thing. For those that to want spend their hard earned on fancy named cable, fair enough, but it's a waste of money, it's your money.

I've used t & e in the past, but 2.5 mm2, which is about as unwieldy as NAC A5 !. Have to admit, though, that I used it (with Rogers and ProAc speakers) when I fancied a garden session. they were plugged in to existing (indoor) NAC A5. Not very professional, but it all worked well in two houses (sorry, their gardens). Still got it coiled up in my loft.

[paulf-2007]

I've used t & e in the past, but 2.5 mm2, which is about as unwieldy as NAC A5 !. Have to admit, though, that I used it (with Rogers and ProAc speakers) when I fancied a garden session. they were plugged in to existing (indoor) NAC A5. Not very professional, but it all worked well in two houses (sorry, their gardens). Still got it coiled up in my loft.
Mostly speaker cables don't need moving once in position. Cat 5 or 6 is stiffer than t & e, I run it in sleeving, connect it and leave it alone. I've used 6mm stranded copper singles too.

[MikeMusic]

Exposure Electronics were better than NACA5 in my system.

Looks identical

[Bigbird]

Thanks for all your repsonses chaps. Certainly a lot of food for thought there.
I shall keep my beady eye on the classifieds and hope something reasonable appears.
Ive just been reading that WITCH HAT make a nice alternative also which is less than 100 quid terminated.
Hes an ex naim engineer so must no his stuff?

[MikeMusic]

No guarantee but heard only good things about Witch Hat

[guy]

I have used 4 and 5 in the past - not a big difference in my view, bigger change using the Naim "combined" banana plugs (I think that the design pushed the pins to make a more secure connection in the socket). Given up worrying about speaker cables now though :)
Just don't use any twisted pairs - as others have said low capacitance is the key for a few amplifier brands.

[Ninanina]

Karl I used TQ Ultra Black before I got the Naim kit and to be honest the NACA5 is a very nice sounding cable when used with a Naim amp/setup

I would consider the NACA5 a bit of a bargain when compared to the TQ UB I used, I sold the TQ UB and replaced it with NACA5 as that cable suited the Naim setup better

[Bigbird]

Ok thanks.. i think the general consensus is to use the naca. Il just have to wait for an affordable set to pop up. If not i will give the witch hat cables a try

[Yomanze]

Ok thanks.. i think the general consensus is to use the naca. Il just have to wait for an affordable set to pop up. If not i will give the witch hat cables a try

...or go for something that is very affordable & optimised for your setup: https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/speaker-cables/van-damme-2-x-4mm-hi-fi-speaker-cable-up-lcofc-terminated/

I don't think NACA5 or Witch Hat would offer any real differences, aside from being suited to the electrical characteristics of amps that require low capacitance cables.

[Bigbird]

Oh wow that is affordable at 64 quid for two lengths terminated. Thanks. Have you used these yourself?

[Yomanze]

Oh wow that is affordable at 64 quid for two lengths terminated. Thanks. Have you used these yourself?

Yes, with a very early Exposure IV power amp. :)

[Bigbird]

Great, Sorry I remember now that you mentioned it earlier in the thread, Ive just read a few more favourable reviews on other forums so this will definitely get bumped up the pecking order

[Vanzapp]

I've used NACA5 for years with my Naim setup. Its a great cable soundwise and if you have Naim amplification there probably isn't too much around that's better (for the money). These cables come up all the time on Forums and fleabay so just bide your time and get a used set. You'll be delighted by the sound and frustrated by the lack of flexibility ;)

[DSJR]

Naim A5 is fizzy up top if that's what you really want!

Old Naims in untouched condition will either have failed by now, or they'd have been properly serviced, re-capped as they seem to need and re-aligned 'cos this ancient circuit as used in older models drifted all over the shop over it's service life. Old refurbished CB era Naims have largely lost the PA-amp harshness they had when new and I very much doubt you'd lose any stability if you use non Naim speaker cables in a serviced surviving old amp. Linn K20 is bland and lifeless (I don't know why, but I used it for years at home and in many dem rooms and it came as an ear opener when I realised how awful it actually was), A4 used to go off badly, especially the black version, but the one thing about the A5 was that the insulation didn't react with the copper over time. Price is ludicrous-high now, like all Naim's post 1985, but it helps bolster the director's pension pots and makes the company appear more valuable/profitable...

You could quite easily use 2.5mm instrument cable as we did in the early days. Back in the olden days, we used 'RS' 50 and 56 strand cable on a red and black drum, loosely twisting it together and this is what we ALL used before A4 came along (an external light-string cable I was told, but I can't back this assertion up). I now use a 2.5mm installation cable (seven strands per conductor known here as 'LS2') in eight metre runs and it beats most dealer bought wires up to silly money I think and is totally benign in terms of amp compatibility. I run each conductor alongside the other one with no twisting...

Be VERY careful of old *cheap* Naim power amps. The circuit of CB and Olive models drifts all over the place over time and a cheap one will need silly amounts spent on re-capping and setting up. For some reason, Naim thrashed their original fitment power amp electrolytic caps for various reasons (low cost was one) and they don't seem to live as long as in other amps, so after twenty or thirty years, they'll be shagged and the offsets will be way out too - this IS audible! I remember recommending the 180 as a sweet (by Naim standards) amp with greater 'peak' headroom than a 250, which overheats if stressed, but I was told that after fifteen years of use (as it was then), the sound had deteriorated severely and the thing needed servicing and setting up. Selling the stuff new, I only noticed this with tri-amp 250's and six-pack 135's the drifting, where one or two of a set would start to run hotter than others (with 135's it was unbearable as the fans were noisy when running).

[Sherwood]

If anyone is interested, I have a 2m pair of Naim NAC A4 cables that I no longer use. These are terminated with banana plugs at both ends.

I also have a single run of this cable (unterminated) up for grabs. IIRC this is around 4m to 5m.

PM me if interested.

Geoff