My Technics SL1200 MKII journey

[eldarvanyar]

Hi guys,

I recently bought a Technics SL1200 MK2 as a simple way to start listening to vinyl again. I sent it to Richard Talmage at http://www.technics-service.co.uk/ and had it fully serviced, plus a new power switch, and upgraded phono cable and a new arm installed.

I think it is from the 1980s looking at the serial number and was one owner used soley for hifi listening.

I have bought a cover to try and keep it in good condition, and a Cherry Audio 5mm platter mat, although the pictures are showing th original rubber mat and also an XTC1 mat.

With the technics I am going to be using an Angle Audio MM preamp or a Yaqin ms 12b phono stage into my EL34 Symphonic Audio Valve Amp which is hard wired point to point. I bought this in the late 2000's from a dealer in Hong Kong via ebay. I have yet to decide on a cartridge to use with the Technics, but have the following to choose from Shure M75ed typeII, Shure M95ed, Shure M97xe, Pickering v15 625e. I think I may also have a Nagoika MP100 as well to try.

I’m looking forward finally listening to music seriously again soon later this year when my energy allows me to.

I have been reading some of the forum posts and have various plans for upgrades along the way. I want to take my time and get used to the 'stock sound before making changes to really appreciate and enjoy the journey.

The journey begins

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[Macca]

Lovely example you have got there. I've got an identical one to that, almost mint. Don't use it that much now but I do like to look at it. 'Form following function' but done superbly.

You've only got to pick one up to realise it is a serious bit of engineering. And the stainless steel stop/start button, man I never get tired of pressing that.

Looks like you already upgraded the mat?

[Shovel_Knight]

I have yet to decide on a cartridge to use with the Technics, but have the following to choose from Shure M75ed typeII, Shure M95ed, Shure M97xe, Pickering v15 625e. I think I may also have a Nagoika MP100 as well to try.

Of the cartridges you listed, Shure M95 is probably the best. Upgrade it with Jico N95HE stylus and it will sing beautifully.

[eldarvanyar]

I was thinking of going with the Shure M95 and putting it in an ebony wooden body.

[chris@panteg]

Looks very nice, enjoy the journey and take your time, it can be made to sound very good indeed with a few relatively modest upgrades.

[Scooby]

Lovely pics and soooooo much nicer with the silver finish than the 1210 IMO. I think you're right to evaluate the stock version before doing anything more. Looking forward to reading this thread as it develops.

[eldarvanyar]

I have finally fired up the turntable.

It has taken me a long time due to various reasons but it’s working now.

I have placed the TT on top of my Target rack shelf, followed by:
Audio Quest large Sortbothane feet,
Heavy wooden chopping board from Argos
TT on top

The Audio Technica is an AT 11 that came with it set to 1.75 gms. I think Richard Talmage must have set it all up when he serviced it and installed a new arm and Technics Phono leads.

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This was connected to my Angle Audio MM preamp, Symphonic EL34 Integrated valve amp connected with Van Damme Studio 4mm speaker cable into some Monitor Audio RS8 Speakers sat directly on very heavy speaker stands (I can’t remember which ones at the moment).

There are still some set up needs such as positioning the speakers properly, installing the spikes, and so on. They were toed in on a rough triangle to where I sat.

Because I didn’t know the quality of the stylus which looks ok I thought I would try some charity shop records.

I cleaned as best as I could followed by a carbon brush.

I started with a second hand Pipes of Peace by Paul McCartney and listened to the first two tracks, 1. Pipes of Peace, 2. Say,Say,Say with Michael Jackson.

I was impressed with the sound not knowing what to expect from an Audio Technica AT12 as I have never heard an AT before. There was plenty of detail and separation of voices, and a good stereo image despite not being set up very well.

I then changed from the normal Technics mat to an 3mm XTC 1 Acrylic platter mat, and the volume seemed to drop and the sound was definitely more muddled. I think it may be due to a 2 mm difference with the Technics rubber mat which I think is 5mm. So I would think it would need another 3mm mat underneath to make it work.

The Technics mat went back on and the volume was back, separation and stereo image.

I then decided to change to a 5mm Acrylic Platter Mat by Cherry Audio I bought for the Technics earlier this year.

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Wow, the volume seemed louder, more detail, and instruments coming to life, although definitely brighter making the Technics mat sound duller by comparison.
I didn’t realise the change of a platter mat could make such a difference.

I then tried out a few more albums but soon realised they need a good wash and clean. My next project is to build a record cleaner, and I have been gathering parts.

I thought I would then try my new Pathe Wings Record weight clamp thingy which I bought myself for my birthday earlier this year and looks really good.

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I can’t really say I noticed much difference, and probably any difference was subtle unlike the cherry Audio 5mm acrylic mat.

They cost around the same amount approx £40 and the mat was the better choice although I do like the look of the record weight or HiFi jewellery as I have read some people have called them.

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I know the record is dusty it’s before I cleaned it.

So far I am very happy with the Technics, and think there are a few more things to help with the sound, techni boots being the next thing followed by trying some different mm cartridges. I also have a yaqin ms12b valve phono preamp I can try at some stage.

What I have realised though is that the genre of the music, production, mastering and quality and cleanliness make a huge difference. I wondered if the Pipes of Peace album had more spent on it because it was Paul McCartney and some of the other albums were lower budget in recording and mastering.

After a couple of hours I did find I was struggling a little with fatigue and wonder if some of the voices were ever so slightly distorted, which could be down to the set up of the cartridge or the quality of the AT11. I am not an expert with vinyl as all my listening over the years has been almost entirely CD, but I have to say I am hooked on vinyl now and only really want to buy vinyl in the future.

Thanks for watching, and more updates when time allows.

Lee

[chris@panteg]

I've gone back to the standard rubber mat, I was finding the sound with the acrylic mat too bright and clinical, a bit too hifi.
With the standard mat it just sounds so much more musically involving, yes it does add a bloom and the bass is thicker but it seems to suit my current system really well, I find I'm just enjoying it more.

[RobbieGong]

I've gone back to the standard rubber mat, I was finding the sound with the acrylic mat too bright and clinical, a bit too hifi.
With the standard mat it just sounds so much more musically involving, yes it does add a bloom and the bass is thicker but it seems to suit my current system really well, I find I'm just enjoying it more.

My findings too Chris.

Tried untold mats and found the standard 3mm softer mat to be as you say, so much more musical and just not doing anything 'offensive' compared to the others.

They all seemed to either kill or exagerate. Thankfully not experienced any bloom with it on top of the Mike New ETP platter :)

[martian sunrise]

I’ve recently got one of the oyaide rubber mats and it’s the best I’ve tried so far.

[RobbieGong]

I’ve recently got one of the oyaide rubber mats and it’s the best I’ve tried so far.

Fling a link Richard ;)

[martian sunrise]

http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/oyaide-br-12-turntable-mat.html

I paid about half that from a Japanese seller

[chris@panteg]

I think I must get that Oyaide B12 mat. 5 mm so perfect thickness.

[Dubster68]

I’ve recently got one of the oyaide rubber mats and it’s the best I’ve tried so far.

Richie looked at these for a bit now. Would you say they make a good difference as like all other Oyaide stuff but doesn't come cheap.

[martian sunrise]

Do you want to try it?

I only tried it against the acrylic mat and and the acrylic mat with a 1mm neoprene may underneath. It was a definite improvement. I had tried cork, resomat, acromat etc previously. Some weren’t flat and some weren’t an improvement

[KWJ]

As far as mats go I have tried about 5 different types the two that really made the most improvement were the Oyaide metal mat and the Kab polyglass mat under the stock thin mat and out of these two I like the Kab setup best at this time but as always with a different cartridge may have to select a different mat to obtain the best sound.

[Dubster68]

Running with a High Fidelity Crystal glass turntable matt on a standard platter at the moment and that has sounded the most musical so stuck with it. The best for sound was the MN Bearing and MN ETP platter but for what ever reason I sold them to buy a second turntable and my Techie has regretted it since that moment of madness:mental::doh:. I probably won't ever see these for sale again but they do create a totally different turntable.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I never fell in with the MN ETP platter, and whilst it was very very slightly ahead of his older designs (to which I still have sitting on my 1210) I could never justify the ?£700 expense. The best mat I have ever heard is the SSS SPH platter mat (of which I reviewed), it ousted my Crystal mat which now sits on my Lenco 75!

[RobbieGong]

Running with a High Fidelity Crystal glass turntable matt on a standard platter at the moment and that has sounded the most musical so stuck with it. The best for sound was the MN Bearing and MN ETP platter but for what ever reason I sold them to buy a second turntable and my Techie has regretted it since that moment of madness:mental::doh:. I probably won't ever see these for sale again but they do create a totally different turntable.

Can only agree totally Mick, The ETP took my techie to a level of rightness.

Instead of adding, it simply took away, allowing the techie to grow up into what I hoped it could be, a proper audiophile turntable.

It didnt add a flavour of any kind (always a massive plus and want in my book, in this game), what it did do was bring out a level of rightness to the techies presentation I was hoping for.

This is most likely due to the non-resonant nature of the Engineered Teflon Plastic structure used - it's a winner in the true sense of hi-fidelity for me.

I detect no flavour with the ETP. Music is presented through cart, speakers, system duty, which equates to music being pulled from the grooves and presented with a sense of accuracy.

The ETP plays a big part in that, no doubt in my experience.

[steve-z]

With the standard of turntable you have it definitely deserves a better cartridge, I’ve got an AT95EX on my ATLP5 turntable and at its price (£42) I think it’s excellent, if you can afford to go up a little in price the new Goldring E3 (£80) is getting lots of rave reviews, that’s the way I’ll be going when I eventually change mine.
Btw if you like a relaxed but detailed sound try a cork mat, I use one on my No 1 deck, a Rega P3 and prefer it to the standard wool mat.

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[eldarvanyar]

Just a quick update, I took the cartridge of the head shell to find out what it was. It was a AT12XE
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I think I will try it with an EVG PM2280DE replacement as it has a lower grade stylus ATN 11 on it at the moment.

Life has been very busy and I haven’t had enough time or energy to do much more at present including listening to Vinyl. I have been buying some new Vinyl here and there in anticipation.
I have also been trying to mod my Rega P25 which has fought me all along the way and has been frustrating. In particular new bearings have not fitted and I ruined a low friction one trying to get it to fit. Even a new Rega replacement would not fit.
An RP8 double pulley seems to be too high and so on it goes....

On a better note Alan from Firebottle is putting together and upgrading a Xuling board EAR 834P Phono Clone for me. He has been an absolute pleasure to deal with.

Thanks

[eldarvanyar]

I moved home last year and have started setting up my HIFI again after a long hiatus. This is due to lack of time from a new job and lack of energy. I still have some unpacking to do in my room as well.
I am currently using a Quad 44 Preamp recently serviced by Quad with a Quad 606 Power Amp and a EAR 834 Phono Clone Preamp modded by Alan aka Firebottle with JJ marched valves.
I am wondering about a Quad 99 pre to replace the 44 preamp.
Speakers at the moment are my old Proactive Response 1 SCs, single wired with Van Damme Blue Studio 2.5mm.
I have installed a Shure M95ED Cartridge with a new EVG Stylus.
The Audio Technica AT 12XE was having big problems after taking it of the head shell and putting it back on. I think that channel had gone on it. Is that possible?

Not sure how long the stylus will take to run in.

I still need to set the speakers up properly for the room. They are sitting directly on my Partington Stands at the moment and I have some Ebony Cones to install to decouple them from the stands.

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I need to recap my B&W DM14 speakers and then connect them and see what the difference is like.
Also I want to try running my
WD88 VA XL integrated with the EAR 834 Phono Clone which you can see in the left next to the Quad 44 Preamp.

Any thoughts or comments gratefully received.

Thanks

Lee

[Made in 1968]

Hi Lee
Nice to see the old Yamaha TT you are using. Regarding the AT Cart, i like the old models they did + they dont look as tacky as the later ones. You can gets Shibata styli these days to replace the original Elliptical..

[Made in 1968]

Regarding the B&W. If they have ELCAPS in there replace them with the same. Any metalised polyesters, replace them with polyprops.. Ansar are my favs.. Mega expensive boutique caps are an utter waste of money imho.. If you need to swap out Power resistors, i go for Mills MRA12..

[eldarvanyar]

Regarding the B&W. If they have ELCAPS in there replace them with the same. Any metalised polyesters, replace them with polyprops.. Ansar are my favs.. Mega expensive boutique caps are an utter waste of money imho.. If you need to swap out Power resistors, i go for Mills MRA12..

I have gone for like for like where I can so I have bought matched Elcaps from Falcon Acoustics.
Can you tell me more about the Mills MRA12 Power resistors?

Thanks

Lee

[eldarvanyar]

Hi Lee
Nice to see the old Yamaha TT you are using. Regarding the AT Cart, i like the old models they did + they dont look as tacky as the later ones. You can gets Shibata styli these days to replace the original Elliptical..

Thanks for the reply, yes I love my Yammie I just want to recap and service it.

What Shibata Styli do you recommend and where from ?

Thanks

Lee

[eldarvanyar]

For anyone interested in my EAR 834P Phono clone built by Firebottle here is the link to the build on LENCO Heaven


https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=31356

[eldarvanyar]

I have just installed a Nagaoka MP15 Cartridge with a MP11 Stylus and much prefer it to the Shure M95ED with Jico stylus.
The Nagaoka is on an Audio Technica headshell which is 10gm and heavier than the Technics headshell which is 7.6gm.

Do you think the extra weight of the headshell makes any difference?

[eldarvanyar]

The next stage of updates I will be doing will be an arm rewire using the following from a seller on EBay

‘This is Kit 5 that we do. It is the only one available to give your 1200 or 1210 pure silver Litz wire from your cartridge right through to the RCA sockets.

These kits can be used with internally grounded decks but we prefer to use the earth.

The silver Litz wire specs and info

Each wire is a 7 strand Litz Construction.

Each strand is 0.1mm of 99.999% Pure silver, soft annealed wire giving it a 0.5 mm diameter and is insulated with high quality Teflon and PTFE sleeving. The cable its self is manufactured in one of the most stringently governed factories in the world which supplies and manufactures wiring sets for many of the worlds top end audio companies. Using the most uptown date manufacturing processes of its kind.’

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I think that it looks like a good solution enabling flexibility to use different RCA leads.

I want to order the arm tube from KAB in the USA before fitting it.

I am also considering ordering a Linear PSU and regulator to fit as well and then install it all in one go.


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[CageyH]

I don’t like the look of those angled RCA adapters.

[Barry]

I don’t like the look of those angled RCA adapters.

Needs must, unless Lee uses interconnects already fitted with right-angle RCA phono plugs. I use some Klotz AC106 cables fitted with right-angle RCA plugs at one end and straight RCA plugs at the other, specifically with the SME M2-12R arm.

[eldarvanyar]

Needs must, unless Lee uses interconnects already fitted with right-angle RCA phono plugs. I use some Klotz AC106 cables fitted with right-angle RCA plugs at one end and straight RCA plugs at the other, specifically with the SME M2-12R arm.

I thought it was quite a good solution and better thank having fixed rca cables. I will look into the right angle rca plugs as that should work even better.
Thanks


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[CageyH]

Needs must, unless Lee uses interconnects already fitted with right-angle RCA phono plugs. I use some Klotz AC106 cables fitted with right-angle RCA plugs at one end and straight RCA plugs at the other, specifically with the SME M2-12R arm.

There are plates that attach near the hinges which allow you to fit normal RCA sockets, and use normal RCA plugs.
There are also kits that grow the bottom of the tonearm base out to use normal RCA sockets.

In my experience, the cheap brass 90 degree adapters don’t do much to benefit the sound.

[CageyH]

I would be tempted to use a box like this https://www.ebay.fr/itm/254506076058
Change the RCA sockets to decent quality ones, and wire the arm directly to the sockets, negating the PCB, so eliminating two joints in the signal path.

[Barry]

If you are going to re-wire the arm, then that is a good idea. However if you can get hold of them, right-angle RCA plugs are no worse a connector than straight ones.

[CageyH]

That all depends on the quality of the RCA connector in question.

[Barry]

That all depends on the quality of the RCA connector in question.

They're all pretty poor IMO.

[CageyH]

Some are better than others. The pure silver Aeco (not cheap) are not too bad.

There is also the option of a DIN socket for the SL1200 arm.

[Marco]

The next stage of updates I will be doing will be an arm rewire using the following from a seller on EBay

‘This is Kit 5 that we do. It is the only one available to give your 1200 or 1210 pure silver Litz wire from your cartridge right through to the RCA sockets.

These kits can be used with internally grounded decks but we prefer to use the earth.

The silver Litz wire specs and info

Each wire is a 7 strand Litz Construction.

Each strand is 0.1mm of 99.999% Pure silver, soft annealed wire giving it a 0.5 mm diameter and is insulated with high quality Teflon and PTFE sleeving. The cable its self is manufactured in one of the most stringently governed factories in the world which supplies and manufactures wiring sets for many of the worlds top end audio companies. Using the most uptown date manufacturing processes of its kind.’

I think that it looks like a good solution enabling flexibility to use different RCA leads.

I want to order the arm tube from KAB in the USA before fitting it.

I am also considering ordering a Linear PSU and regulator to fit as well and then install it all in one go.


Hi Lee,

I think you'll achieve a notable upgrade by rewiring the arm, as I did it myself, years ago when I was using the stock arm with my Techy. Apart from improving the quality of the cable used, the goal really is to minimise the amount of connections/breaks in the signal path, which potentially has the most deleterious effect, so always bear that in mind.

What's the armtube upgrade KAB are doing?

One area you should also address, and which will offer a notable improvement is upgrading the stock headshell, as it's rather resonant and not of particularly great quality (really designed to partner DJ cartridges and entry-level MMs).

A good, and relatively cheap upgrade, in that respect, would be this one from Ortofon (currently on sale with one left): https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/67369/ortofon-lh-2000-universal-headshell-mount/

It's rather more solid and better engineered than the Technics and will allow your cartridge to perform to a higher sonic standard. Ditto with this from Jelco: https://snvinyl.co.uk/Jelco-HS-25-Magnesium-Headshell

Honestly, you'll hear the difference instantly!:cool:

Marco.

[Barry]

Some are better than others. The pure silver Aeco (not cheap) are not too bad.

There is also the option of a DIN socket for the SL1200 arm.

Ugh! - they're 'bullet plugs'.

The option for a mini-DIN connector is better. There are some good quality right-angle types available - even if they are a PITA to wire.

[CageyH]

They work well. I have them on some UP-OCC silver cable.
I am quite tempted to do the mini din conversion when I have to rewire my arm.

[eldarvanyar]

Hi Lee,

I think you'll achieve a notable upgrade by rewiring the arm, as I did it myself, years ago when I was using the stock arm with my Techy. Apart from improving the quality of the cable used, the goal really is to minimise the amount of connections/breaks in the signal path, which potentially has the most deleterious effect, so always bear that in mind.

What's the armtube upgrade KAB are doing?

One area you should also address, and which will offer a notable improvement is upgrading the stock headshell, as it's rather resonant and not of particularly great quality (really designed to partner DJ cartridges and entry-level MMs).

A good, and relatively cheap upgrade, in that respect, would be this one from Ortofon (currently on sale with one left): https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/67369/ortofon-lh-2000-universal-headshell-mount/

It's rather more solid and better engineered than the Technics and will allow your cartridge to perform to a higher sonic standard. Ditto with this from Jelco: https://snvinyl.co.uk/Jelco-HS-25-Magnesium-Headshell

Honestly, you'll hear the difference instantly!:cool:

Marco.

Hi Marco,
I will look into the headshell and maybe go for the Audio Technica
AT-LH13OCC which is 13g.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210428/48b4b78c7d61adcfb992ffe75756821c.jpg


The KAB upgrade is just the silicon arm tube to line the internal part of the arm tube.

Do you know if the Technics SL1200II arm can take up to the AT-LH180CC which is 18gm to use with the Shure SC35C cartridge.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210428/55c31df7def7ebc8f887d087087fdba2.jpg


Does it need additional weight(s)on the stub to counterbalance it?

Thanks

Lee


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[Marco]

Hi Lee,

No I wouldn't do it, as you'll seriously struggle at the other end trying to balance it out. A headshell like that, IMO, is overkill for your arm.

At a push, you could go with the 13g one, but you still may need to use the auxiliary weight (little screw-in one that goes into the middle of the counterweight), to successfully balance it out.

One other KAB item you may wish to try, if Kevin's still offering them, is the fluid damper, as that makes quite a difference to how the arm behaves with certain cartridges:)

Marco.

[CageyH]

Don't forget there are two auxiliary weights now, the small one and a heavier version released with the newer SL1200.

[Marco]

Ah, fair enough. I still feel it's a bit of a 'bodge', though, and not something I'd do.

Marco.

[CageyH]

I agree, but it opens up other options...

[Marco]

Sure, but I prefer using any given tonearm within its 'comfort zone', thus optimising it with cartridges it was designed to partner:)

Marco.

[worrasf]

I bought one of these (the base kit) for my project "stock SL1210" as I wanted to preserve the stock look but still get a bit of an upgrade in performance. I use the KAB phono plate on my SL1210 with mission 774 tonearm.
I really just wanted the circular mounting plate. I replaced the supplied phono sockets with better quality Rhodium plated ones from a previous project and soldered the tonearm wires direct missing out the PCB to reduce the number of connections. Having to then use a pair of 90 degree phono plugs seems to defeat the object of this part of the project - the supplied ones were dreadful and it's very difficult to obtain good quality ones but as I say why introduce yet another connection?
I came up with 2 options.

1. If you have a TT wall shelf (I do) then you can make a cutout in the base board to allow straight connectors on your tonearm cable to exit the base of the deck at 180 degrees. Admittedly, if you have an Uber quality support base you may not want to go down this road.

2. Use a cable with pre-soldered quality 90 degree plugs. I did this. There is a guy on eBay selling Van Damme cable with multiple termination options so I bought a length of LC-OFC with good quality 90 degree plugs




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[worrasf]

With the Mission 774 arm and KAB phono plate I found the best results by taking the tonearm wires directly through the rear of the SL1210 base by drilling a small hole near the hinge. This keeps the wiring length to a minimum. Only downside is you need to desolder the connections to the KAB plate before removing the base.

Using the KAB plate with the Mission 774 avoids having to have the tonearm cable soldered direct to the small arm base connection block. While this has the advantage of reducing the number of connections the soldered connections IME are pretty fragile and easily broken during setup or moving. Using fine tonearm wires from the connection block to the KAB plate avoids this and also allows for simple changes of tonearm cable.

TBH the trickiest bit of fitting the KAB plate is relocating the screws into the threaded hole in the hinge support plate. A useful tip is to just remove 1 of the original screws and mount the KAB plate on one new long screw before removing the second screw otherwise you will be chasing the plate for ages.

The somewhat ugly cut out in the base was to accommodate the tonearm wire when I had a Jelco TK850s installed. This is not needed if using the Mission 774 or stock Technics arm with the KAB plate.

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