Bi-Integrated-Amping

[pandoraefretum]

Hello Forum,

Does anyone believe it is possible to Bi-Amp 2 integrated amplifiers ?
(in my case I am thinking of Bi-Amping 2 Arcam A39 amps.)

[legb4rsk]

Looks like the A39 has a pre-out so that may be the solution.Pre-out into a line level input on the other amp.
But why do you have 2 amps the same?

[pandoraefretum]

I don't own 2 of the same
However I am thinking of getting another one because price is down to 60% of original price

[Scooby]

Couldn't you just use a pair of Y splitters on each source? Or get some 2-4 phono leads made? Vinyl would probably be more tricky, but should be ok for line level sources.

[ReggieB]

According to the Arcam A39 manual (http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/a39/User%20Manual/A39_MANUAL_SH268_E-F-D-N-ES-R-IT-SC_2.pdf) (page E7 and E10) the natural bi-amping amp to pair with the A39 is the P49 (http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,FMJ,Power-Amplifier,p49.htm)

[Yomanze]

Personally I am not a big fan of horizontal bi-amping (amp for the tweeters & amp for the drivers). In this case though, if you could trial the amp first, I'd be tempted to run them vertically bi-amped i.e. one Arcam A39 per channel.

[pandoraefretum]

Too True, I should use the P49, but that costs £3,250 instead of £850 for another A39

[pandoraefretum]

Interesting, and why is that, Yomanze ?

[Scooby]

Crosstalk may be a factor in preferring vertical bi-amping. Each amp never sees the signal from the other channel.

[Yomanze]

I’ve also noticed some sort of weird ‘detached’ nature to having separate amps for woofers and tweeters. I find one amp per channel more cohesive. YMMV, especially if using an active setup.

...yes, lower crosstalk is a benefit of vertical bi-amping, plus less stress for each amp as each is driving half the load.

[pandoraefretum]

Vertical bi-amping,
sounds absolutely great
but I can't think how to set it up (setting up connections I mean)

[walpurgis]

Vertical bi-amping, sounds absolutely great

Not when I've tried it.

I bet in two years. You won't be bi or tri amping or even bi wiring. But have fun giving it a go! :)

[Barry]

I've never tried bi-amping myself, but a friend of mine uses (passive) horizontal bi-amping with some Spendor speakers (I forget the model) which have provision for bi-wiring, and he is convinced of the advantage. Since I haven't heard his speakers fed by a single amp, I can't comment.

[Scooby]

Vertical bi-amping,
sounds absolutely great
but I can't think how to set it up (setting up connections I mean)

Pretty simple. Buy some phono Y splitters and plug them into the phono outs of your source. Take the (now twin) L feed from each source to the relevant input of one amp. Take the R to the other. The speaker outputs on each amp are now used for each side's woofer and tweeter. You will then have a left and right volume control. A few amps and preamps come this way anyway and it a neat way to set balance if you need it, because you are controlling L and R volume separately. If you want the same level on each channel, just set the volume of each to the same point.

[Yomanze]

Not when I've tried it.

I bet in two years. You won't be bi or tri amping or even bi wiring. But have fun giving it a go! :)

Yes, a good point. :P

[struth]

monoblocks, or amps you can monoblock are probably a better idea

[pandoraefretum]

I've been bi-amping for 15 years.. probably will do so for the next 15 years
I discovered it ages ago

[pandoraefretum]

Y splitters does not feel very hi-fi to me ; am I wrong ?

[walpurgis]

I first bi-amped using a high quality vintage Onkyo Integra 624 combined power-amp/crossover.

http://i65.tinypic.com/ruxu0p.jpg

Wasn't too keen, tried other combos since, still not keen.

[Scooby]

I've been bi-amping for 15 years.. probably will do so for the next 15 years
I discovered it ages ago

You can always make up your own 2-4 phono cables or have them made up. Y splitters are a very cheap and easy way to try it in the first place and I doubt it would offer any serious limitations. I've used the Mayware/Russ Andrews Din-phono adapters with Naim CD players many times and had no complaints. A Y splitter is just another adapter.

[Eileen Dover]

I just love having mono blocks, one for each driver in a speaker system. And with independent volume control for right and left channels - you will either love this or it will drive you mad.

[pandoraefretum]

Thanks for the discussion so far...
Zero hour, or the moment of truth is about to happen
I will pick up my 2nd Arcam A39 on Monday, and start the process ; 1 amp for treble the other for bass
Does anyone know where I can find more info on this setup ?

I am particularly puzzled about matching gain on both amps... I will use Pre-Out on Amp1 (treble) into Aux of Amp2 (bass)
For instance, if I set volume to 10...20...30 on the first amp I very much doubt that the 2nd amp will match it "in parallel" at vol 10...20...30 settings...
Any help will be appreciated. For instance, do I attach my REL 7i/T to the first or second Amp ? Indeed do I run treble or bass off the first ?

Completely in the dark until someone helps me out !
Thx, Roland

[pandoraefretum]

That's what I will end up with one day... .100% for sure

[Scooby]

My (unqualified) thoughts are that I wouldn't worry too much about matching volume levels. Think of it as a chance to have separate control over bass and treble levels and adjust to taste.

As for the sub, I'm not familiar with it, but older RELs had 2 ways to connect: Speakon from your speaker terminals and phono from a preamp out. If yours is the same, couldn't you just use the preamp out from the 2nd amp?

If you want or need to use speakons from the speaker terminals, it shouldn't matter too much which you use, but my instinct would be to run them off the amp that's taking care of treble duties because it's supplying less current.

Again, I stress I'm not technically qualified in any way. Just sharing my instincts on what I would try. At least of I'm wrong, somebody will speak up and you'll get a better answer ;)

[pandoraefretum]

My (unqualified) thoughts are that I wouldn't worry too much about matching volume levels. Think of it as a chance to have separate control over bass and treble levels and adjust to taste.

As for the sub, I'm not familiar with it, but older RELs had 2 ways to connect: Speakon from your speaker terminals and phono from a preamp out. If yours is the same, couldn't you just use the preamp out from the 2nd amp?

If you want or need to use speakons from the speaker terminals, it shouldn't matter too much which you use, but my instinct would be to run them off the amp that's taking care of treble duties because it's supplying less current.

Again, I stress I'm not technically qualified in any way. Just sharing my instincts on what I would try. At least of I'm wrong, somebody will speak up and you'll get a better answer ;)

My thoughts exactly, so far ! Thanks

[Pharos]

It seems that you are using these amps in 'horizontal' mode; one stereo amp is feeding both channels' top ends, and the other both bass ends.

This does mean that one amp is working much harder than the other, and demands on its power supply will be relatively very great.

[pandoraefretum]

It seems that you are using these amps in 'horizontal' mode; one stereo amp is feeding both channels' top ends, and the other both bass ends.

This does mean that one amp is working much harder than the other, and demands on its power supply will be relatively very great.

Yes, Yes, this is what I want to do... at the moment I use an Arcam A90 for my treble and a matching power amp P90 for my bass. These are a little dated now, though still sounding good..
So it is this kind of configuration I wish to stay with. The official / matching power Amp for the A39 Integrated is the P49 but it cost 4x what the A39 does. I wish Arcam did a matching P39.

[Rush2112]

I have in the past both bi-amped and mono blocked with Musical Fidelity P180's and CRPS ( Choke Regulated Power Supply). I have to say initially the bi-amped option was a big improvement over just the one amp even with the CRPS added but mono blocked with a P180 and CRPS for each channel was definitely better ! These were driving Celestion SL600 and briefly also SL6000 but to be fair the addition of the subs was too much for the P180's. I have heard several systems using different amps for the high and low frequency but never been totally convinced when compared to monoblocks or bi-amping with the same amps.

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[Rush2112]

Old School!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/c54f5d5cf2b2f0760e2534b4d2f338ab.jpg

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