MC Cartridge & SUT advice

[yolakim]

I have an LP12 with Armageddon PS and am currently running a Goldring 1042 on an Origin Live OL1 (basically a modified RB250) into my EAR 864 pre amp. I've been concentrating on my digital source recently and I feel as though my TT has been a little left behind and am not using it as much.

I am thinking about changing the turntable in the longer term, so probably not wanting to change the arm at the moment, but have been thinking about trying a MC cartridge. Though my pre-amp has a full compliment of Telefunken valves and I'm delighted with what it does, I'm told that the MC phono stage is a little disappointing. I'd love to change it for an EAR 868, but these appear to be like gold dust on the used market and so I was wondering if adding a SUT might be the answer. It would give me the option to change the cartridge now, but add the SUT at a later stage.

So, does anyone have any MC cart + SUT combinations that they can recommend? Cartridge budget is probably about £400-£500. My only experience with an MC was an Ortofon MC20 (I think) some years ago and I found that a little uninvolving in my set up at the time. I have never had an SUT.

I appreciate that this is a question with a great many answers, but just pondering at the moment and looking for more food for thought.

[Barry]

Hello Kim,

I once used an Ortofon MC20 with the MCA76 head amp. Like you I didn't really like it and it is the only Ortofon cartridge I have sold on. In retrospect the uninvolving nature of the combination was most likely due to the MCA76 head amp: there are serious issues with the design, despite it having an admirably low noise figure.

If you like Ortofon MC cartridges, then I can recommend the MC25FL. It has a mass of 10.5g, a dynamic compliance of 16cu and an output of 0.5mV (at 5cm/sec). As such, it only needs an SUT with a turns ratio of 1:10. I would have thought a good, used, sample of an MF25FL plus two 10:1 SUTs would be obtainable within your budget.

[yolakim]

Hi Barry and thanks for your thoughts.

Just googled an image of the MC25FL - and turns out THAT was actually the cartridge I had before, not an MC20! :doh:

Was more likely the setup I had at the time though, so open to the idea of trying again.

[yolakim]

You may well be right Andrew. I think the comparison was also being made between the 864 and the EAR 868/912 - you would hope there would be an improvement!

But yes, my thought was to get an MC and see how I feel about it. Then maybe borrow an SUT to see if the investment is worth it at a later date - my current amp gives me the option.

I was looking at the Audio Technica AT33PTG just because it's within my price range, but the SUTs I looked at didn't appear to be suited to that cartridge. I wanted to make a selection that didn't prove to be awkward when I come to consider a transformer...

[hifi_dave]

I agree with Andrew - there's nothing wrong with EAR transformers and the AT33PTG/II sounds wonderful into the EAR 834p and the 88PB.

[chris@panteg]

I'm using a puresound T10 SUT, it works superbly well with Audio technica AT33EV and the OC9 MLII, should work well with the ptg also.

[yolakim]

Thanks Dave. I undersand that the 864 shares the same circuit with the 834P MM/MC, so good to know the two work well together.

[yolakim]

I'm using a puresound T10 SUT, it works superbly well with Audio technica AT33EV and the OC9 MLII, should work well with the ptg also.

...and thank you Chris - I'll check out the puresound SUT too.

[Ali Tait]

Rothwell make some good SUT’s at good prices, you could also consider a head amp if you like a presentation a few rows nearer the band. Rothwell make one, as well as Firebottle here.

[montesquieu]

Andrew is correct, the step-up transformers in the 868PL (I assume this is the model) are the same as those in EAR's MC3 step-up (three ratios available 1:10, 1:20 and 1:10) and are decent quality indeed the MC3 used to sell for about £1000 on its own before it was replaced by the MC4.

It's the step-up transformers in the EAR 834P phono stage that people tend to dismiss and in general I would agree with them, it's an entry level product that while fairly competent has been pumped up in price way beyond any justification. (I think when it came out, the base MM version used to sell for under £300, it's about treble that now).

[yolakim]

Andrew is correct, the step-up transformers in the 868PL (I assume this is the model) are the same as those in EAR's MC3 step-up (three ratios available 1:10, 1:20 and 1:10) and are decent quality indeed the MC3 used to sell for about £1000 on its own before it was replaced by the MC4.

It's the step-up transformers in the EAR 834P phono stage that people tend to dismiss and in general I would agree with them, it's an entry level product that while fairly competent has been pumped up in price way beyond any justification. (I think when it came out, the base MM version used to sell for under £300, it's about treble that now).

Tom's comment is really the reason for the original post: my preamp is an EAR 864, which I understand is basically an 834L and 834P in the same box. If I could find a used 868PL I would be a very happy chap!

I still think the earlier advice is valid - get the MC cart, try it with my current amp and try an outboard SUT or headamp when I can

[montesquieu]

Tom's comment is really the reason for the original post: my preamp is an EAR 864, which I understand is basically an 834L and 834P in the same box. If I could find a used 868PL I would be a very happy chap!

I still think the earlier advice is valid - get the MC cart, try it with my current amp and try an outboard SUT or headamp when I can

Ahh gotcha I had the model wrong. I know the 868 but never played with an 864. Yes a decent outboard SUT or head amp is what you need. Andrew's suggestions are certainly worth checking out.

[yolakim]

Just thought I should complete the thread with an update:

I ended up buying a Audio Technica AT33PGT/II and fitted it the other day. I've read it takes 20+ hours to run it, but through the EAR 864 phono stage switched to MC it does sound like a significant step forward already.

Unable to wait, I also bought a barely used SJS Electroacoustics SUT http://http://sjselectroacoustics.blogspot.co.uk/ from a very nice chap. This does take the performance to another level, though as Andrew and Dave have said, the EAR transformers are very respectable (I'm not giving up the Hashimoto's though!).

Thank you for all of your advice - super helpful as always. :)

[chris@panteg]

I think you'll be very happy with that combination, good choices.

[walpurgis]

If I'm not mistaken, your EAR's phonostage has built-in step-up transformers for MC cartridges. I've heard people say the built-in transformers are not much good, but those people are usually repeating what they've heard others say - and they're probably just repeating what they've heard others say. It could just be something that was said on a forum and has been endlessly repeated ever since.

It was probably me who started that rumour and I'm happy to repeat it again. Having owned the MM/MC version of the 834P. Tried with various MC carts, I found the internal SUT's in the unit are bland sounding and veiled. The Fidelity Research and Osawa SUT's I had at the time, sounded far better used through the MM side of the 834P.

I don't rate the 834P as special anyway. It's pleasant in MM use, but not outstanding and it is way overpriced second hand now. I replaced mine with a Graham Slee ERA Gold V which wiped the floor with it.

[yolakim]

I think you'll be very happy with that combination, good choices.

Thanks Chris - I'm sure I will be!

[Castroil]

The 834p has a lot of gain (designed with the idea of running the one with a volume control straight into a power amp) so I can play my Moving Coil Dynavector DV xx-2 through the EAR on mm setting so not using the built in transformers . But I would not say it sounds any better for not using the in built transformers. Am I forgetting something here?