View Full Version : Garrard 401 9" tonearm
Hi
I realise most advocate a 12" arm for the 401 but my plinth will only accommodate a 9" one. From various comments it seems the SME 3009- while a classic partner- may not be the best in terms of maximising sonic performance, so my question is, for around the same amount of money, which tonearm in your experience offers the best bang for the buck for musicality and detail retrieval? No cartridge as yet either so suitable suggestions would also be welcome. Thanks very much.
DiveDeepDog
21-03-2018, 19:53
Send a Roksan Tabriz to J7 for a re-wire, you won't get better for £3-400...
Thanks Mark...they seem very hard to come by, will keep a look out
Ali Tait
21-03-2018, 21:35
Very happy with the Mission 774 I use with mine.
walpurgis
21-03-2018, 21:44
Very happy with the Mission 774 I use with mine.
Yes. I've used a 774 with a 401. A very effective combination, extremely musical.
Ali Tait
21-03-2018, 21:50
Sounds great with my Lenco too.
montesquieu
21-03-2018, 22:03
Depends what sort of cartridge you want to use (high, medium or low compliance), and whether you want a removable headshell. I personally couldn't live without one.
Primalsea
21-03-2018, 22:08
I use a modified Rega RB250 and although I have often thought about replacing it it sounds so nice I back away from changing it each time.
Well done on landing a 401 Drew even though you really wanted a 301, I don't think you will be disappointed, I honestly find it difficult to choose between them in terms of SQ.
I have tried the following arms on mine Rega RB 250, a J7 Hotrod RB250, an RB 600, a Hadcock 242, a Michell Techno arm, a Jelco 750 and a J7 Audio Origami PU7. The PU7 is by far and away the nicest sounding using an MC cartridge but for your budget and assuming you want to us MC if you can find a Technoarm then that could be considered. In saying that I have just looked on ebay and there is a new one for sale at almost a grand which sounds a bit pricey for what is basically a moditied RB 250.
Be nice to see some pics when you finally get it up and running.
Andy
This might work well:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?57457-AT-1005-arm
hifi_dave
22-03-2018, 10:29
if you can find a Technoarm then that could be considered. In saying that I have just looked on ebay and there is a new one for sale at almost a grand which sounds a bit pricey for what is basically a moditied RB 250.
Andy
A brand spanking new Tecnoarm is only £705, so I can't see one on E-Bay selling for "a grand".
The Tecnoarm is excellent by any measure and reasonably priced.
ovlov854
22-03-2018, 10:32
Audiomods Classic or Series 5
Also Audio Note 1 V2
montesquieu
22-03-2018, 10:37
Personally I wouldn't use a modern-looking arm (such as one derived from the RB250) on a classic deck like a 401.
I use an AT-1503 MkI on mine and it's superb as well as in-keeping with the look of the thing. Other older ATs like the AT12P and 1005 and 1009 are are good options as well.
The PU7 previously suggested, especially in chrome finish is a modern arm with a classic look and also well worth considering if funds allow. The new Jelco TK-850S is another sharp looker with excellent performance.
Ali Tait
22-03-2018, 10:51
A brand spanking new Tecnoarm is only £705, so I can't see one on E-Bay selling for "a grand".
The Tecnoarm is excellent by any measure and reasonably priced.
The Mission blew away the Tecnoarm I was using before it to my ears. The Tecnoarm sounded tonally grey and lifeless compared to the 774.
Considering you can pick up a good 774 for about £300 makes it a stonking bargain IMO.
Very useful and informative answers, many thanks to you all. The Mission tonearm is pretty tough to come by it appears but sounds like a bit of a bargain...
Well done on landing a 401 Drew even though you really wanted a 301, I don't think you will be disappointed, I honestly find it difficult to choose between them in terms of SQ.
Be nice to see some pics when you finally get it up and running.
Andy
Cheers Andy....Currently having a full service with Ray at Classic. Original finish was excellent but I've plumped for a full stripping with hammertone finish. Fingers crossed!
Ray will do a storming job, he did my 301 last year and its fantastic now and his place is only 10 miles away which makes it even better.
A brand spanking new Tecnoarm is only £705, so I can't see one on E-Bay selling for "a grand".
The Tecnoarm is excellent by any measure and reasonably priced.
I had to do a double take myself Dave as I thought it was a bit pricey but the proof is in the pudding as they say
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Michell-Techno-Arm-A-Tonearm-Silver/302626775304?hash=item4675f62108:g:qk4AAOSwhdZadio z
I did not read the advert so maybe its coming with a cartridge or an armboard?
Andy
Ammonite Audio
22-03-2018, 11:55
Tecnoarms are indeed grey, lifeless and dismal sounding things - I bought two on separate occasions before learning that the expensive way.
I’ll reinforce what Tom said earlier - the choice of arm depends very much on what sort of ‘look’ Drew wants, but also the cartridges he is planning to use, and also whether he wants the convenience of swappable headshells. Within reason you can get away with using an arm having a bit too much mass with most cartridges (excepting very high compliance MMs), but use an arm that has very low effective mass like the Mission 774 and most MC cartridges will be fairly unhappy because they usually have stiffer suspension. An analogy here is a small and light car (the tonearm) sitting on stiff springs (the cartridge suspension) - the car will buck around all over the place and not follow the bumps in the road (the groove modulations) securely. In this analogy we are after a combination that lets the wheels move freely up and down over the bumps while keeping the car body still and stable, like a Citroen DS. Concerns about record warps aside, a heavier arm will in contrast mostly let the cartridge track the record securely. I would personally always go for an arm of at least medium effective mass, eg 15g or more, because that opens up a much wider range of nice sounding cartridges.
Of course, higher mass arm tubes can be bought for the Mission 774, but the standard article is very low mass, and will therefore only favour very high compliance cartridges, and that pretty much excludes most quality MCs.
I hope that helps rather than confuses!
The Mission blew away the Tecnoarm I was using before it to my ears. The Tecnoarm sounded tonally grey and lifeless compared to the 774.
Considering you can pick up a good 774 for about £300 makes it a stonking bargain IMO.
Tecnoarms are indeed grey, lifeless and dismal sounding things - I bought two on separate occasions before learning that the expensive way.
I’ll reinforce what Tom said earlier - the choice of arm depends very much on what sort of ‘look’ Drew wants, but also the cartridges he is planning to use, and also whether he wants the convenience of swappable headshells. Within reason you can get away with using an arm having a bit too much mass with most cartridges (excepting very high compliance MMs), but use an arm that has very low effective mass like the Mission 774 and most MC cartridges will be fairly unhappy because they usually have stiffer suspension. An analogy here is a small and light car (the tonearm) sitting on stiff springs (the cartridge suspension) - the car will buck around all over the place and not follow the bumps in the road (the groove modulations) securely. In this analogy we are after a combination that lets the wheels move freely up and down over the bumps while keeping the car body still and stable, like a Citroen DS. Concerns about record warps aside, a heavier arm will in contrast mostly let the cartridge track the record securely. I would personally always go for an arm of at least medium effective mass, eg 15g or more, because that opens up a much wider range of nice sounding cartridges.
Of course, higher mass arm tubes can be bought for the Mission 774, but the standard article is very low mass, and will therefore only favour very high compliance cartridges, and that pretty much excludes most quality MCs.
I hope that helps rather than confuses!
You can always add mass to a low-mass arm, whereas you can't remove mass from a high-mass arm.
Very useful and informative answers, many thanks to you all. The Mission tonearm is pretty tough to come by it appears but sounds like a bit of a bargain...One on eBay right now
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 162931175160
walpurgis
22-03-2018, 13:50
Of course, higher mass arm tubes can be bought for the Mission 774, but the standard article is very low mass, and will therefore only favour very high compliance cartridges, and that pretty much excludes most quality MCs.
Not so.
The built in fluid damping is there for use with low compliance cartridges. The fluid not only damps, but also provides a resisting load for the stylus to work against according to the viscosity and paddle chosen, thereby allowing the cantilever suspension to articulate properly and achieve the necessary excursion. The 774 works extremely well with low compliance MC's and Deccas. Without the damping in use it will of course cater to high compliance cartridges too, due to the low mass armtube.
Ammonite Audio
22-03-2018, 14:47
If the damping was applied to that extent and where it is most effective, I might agree with you. Where is Max Townshend when he is needed? :)
walpurgis
22-03-2018, 15:01
I've been using Mission 774 tonearms for nearly forty years. Other arms have come and gone, but the Mission remains in use. It has given excellent results with a huge range of cartridges, with compliances ranging from 10cu to 50cu, damping applied as appropriate. The sound quality is always excellent.
I still have three 774 arms.
Ali Tait
22-03-2018, 16:13
Have to agree, used mine with a range of MC’s and a few MM’s and it’s always sounded excellent.
Ali Tait
22-03-2018, 16:14
Very useful and informative answers, many thanks to you all. The Mission tonearm is pretty tough to come by it appears but sounds like a bit of a bargain...
They come up on Ebay fairly often. Maybe Geoff will sell you ne of his lol.
montesquieu
22-03-2018, 16:15
Huh. Can never have a tonearm thread here without the bloody Mission 774 mafia turning up in numbers .... :D
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 16:16
Huh. Can never have a tonearm thread here without the bloody Mission 774 mafia turning up in numbers .... :D[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
They are bloody good value though. An excellent arm.
Tom (montesquieu) suggested the use of an Audio Technica AT 1005 arm. Mike Greenwood of this parish has one for sale should you be interested: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?57457-AT-1005-arm.
I'm slightly amused by the notion that the arm ought to be visually in keeping with the turntable. Aesthetics aside (which I can, and do, understand and appreciate), I would have thought it was more important to use an arm which brought out the best in the cartridge you are using, despite appearence.
montesquieu
22-03-2018, 16:31
Tom (montesquieu) suggested the use of an Audio Technica AT 1005 arm. Mike Greenwood of this parish has one for sale should you be interested: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?57457-AT-1005-arm.
I'm slightly amused by the notion that the arm ought to be visually in keeping with the turntable. Aesthetics aside (which I can, and do, understand and appreciate), I would have thought it was more important to use an arm which brought out the best in the cartridge you are using, despite appearence.
It's more than aesthetics I think. Idler turntables are of an era that had a sound, and for me I think it's important to follow the philosophy through which means low compliance, heavy arms, probably valve phonostages.
Aside from that I'd take a fettled 1005 over most Rega derivatives any day at least for the sort of lower compliance cartridges I like to use. For my sort of cartridge preferences it probably also betters an SME 3009 SII Improved (though not necessarily an earlier one). The good news is it's also cheaper.
The PU7 for all it's a modern arm also fits this 'retro' scenario in looks as well as function, in the form of higher mass and low compliance friendliness (as does my own Ikeda arm).
Ok....So I'm officially on the look out for a mission arm for my 401 , (alternatively I've spotted an Audio Technica 1503 Mk II which might be worth modding :scratch:)....Would a Cardas rewire be advisable? What about a suitable cartridge recommendation? This is all rather new ground to me, the high/low mass/ compliance is something I really need to read up on!! Thanks to all who have and are helping out- much appreciated! Any who might have a spare tonearm of the type mentioned above for sale please drop me a pm ;-)
THERE'S ONE FOR SALE ON EBAY [emoji39]
montesquieu
22-03-2018, 18:03
Ok....So I'm officially on the look out for a mission arm for my 401 , (alternatively I've spotted an Audio Technica 1503 Mk II which might be worth modding :scratch:)....Would a Cardas rewire be advisable? What about a suitable cartridge recommendation? This is all rather new ground to me, the high/low mass/ compliance is something I really need to read up on!! Thanks to all who have and are helping out- much appreciated! Any who might have a spare tonearm of the type mentioned above for sale please drop me a pm ;-)
I had my 1503 worked on by Agnus (Phonomac) including rewire, new hybrid ceramic bearings and fitting of an arm lift and clip to the main column. It's truly superb and lifts this (already good) arm substantially. Highly recommended.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 18:05
I had my 1503 worked on by Agnus (Phonomac) including rewire, new hybrid ceramic bearings and fitting of an arm lift and clip to the main column. It's truly superb and lifts this (already good) arm substantially. Highly recommended.+1 for phonomacs skills.
THERE'S ONE FOR SALE ON EBAY [emoji39]
Yes, but the photo's of a speaker! I've contacted the seller but no reply as yet...
Ali Tait
22-03-2018, 20:43
I had my Mission rewired by AO with Ikeda silver wire, not cheap but well worth it IMO.
Shovel_Knight
22-03-2018, 21:03
I had my 1503 worked on by Agnus (Phonomac) including rewire, new hybrid ceramic bearings and fitting of an arm lift and clip to the main column. It's truly superb and lifts this (already good) arm substantially. Highly recommended.
Another Phonomac-modified AT-1503 user here. Angus does a great job on these arms, they are very good for low compliance cartridges.
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