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magiccarpetride
21-03-2018, 16:26
I am an audiophile. Ever since I was very young, I remember always perking up my ears whenever I was in the situation to hear an above-average sound reproduction. So naturally, I was drawn toward acquiring a decent hi fi system.

Now, my curse is that I have other passions, other expensive hobbies (collecting quality guitars ain't cheap), etc. So I was never in the position to allocate all my hobby budget to audio components alone. My road to the audiophile experience was a rocky one, strewn with all kinds of tradeoffs and compromises.

Despite all that cautiousness, over the years I've managed to spend a pretty penny on my audio equipment. Many of those purchases have been a blind alley, a complete waste of money, but every education comes at a cost. All in all, I was prone to believing that I do have a decent audio system. Many of my friends kept reinforcing that conclusion, so I was kind of satisfied with what I've managed to cobble up thus far.

Still, deep inside, I always felt that my system is not good enough. There was always certain harshness, certain graininess that kept bothering me. No matter what component I'd upgrade or swap, the hardened edginess, certain glare or glassiness in the sound, something unpleasant remained.

One reason I returned to turntable front end is to try and tame that edginess in sound. Got me a nicely refurbished Systemdek IIX with decent Rega RB300 tonearm and decided to fit it with Denon DL-103 cartridge. That cartridge is legendary for its pronounced 'analog' sound. Paired it with Denon AU-310 SUT, and believed I now have 'match made in heaven'.

But a little worm in my head kept bugging me. "Is this really how you think warm analog sound should be?" little worm of doubt kept asking me. And in all honesty, I couldn't help it, I had to reply "No, this is far from how I expect full analog reproduction to sound. There is still hardness, still graininess, still plenty of edginess!"

So I started going down the list of my components trying to figure out which ones are good enough (keepers), and which ones could potentially be the culprit causing this discreet, discontinuous sound. I eliminated my speakers from the list of potential culprits -- Maggies are quite revealing, but cannot be accused of not delivering continuous, liquid sound. Nordost speaker cables are also quite revealing, but cannot cause this non-liquid graininess.

My separates (DPA combo) are pretty decent as well, and I don't think they are causing this 'electronic glare' I'm hearing when listening to my system. My interconnects (AudioQuest Red River and Golden Gate) should not contribute to the electronic glare either. I'm also using Shunyata power cables on all my equipment, which I think is a decent way to power your audio system.

Systemdek is an old school workhorse turntable, and there isn't anything wrong with its performance. I've modded it per Chris's recommendations, made it almost perfectly level, and I feel that it works as advertised. Rega RB300 tonearm is no slouch either. And of course, Denon DL-103 cartridge & Denon AU-310 SUT are a legendary combo, so those components cannot be accused of producing glassy sound either.

So that leaves me with my phono preamp -- Emotiva XPS-1. That little component has been garnering a lot of positive reviews, you know the ones that claim how it punches above its weight. Still, I got the feeling that it is this little box that is muddying the waters for me. So I decided to start looking for a replacement.

I started auditioning various phono preamps that could fit within my modest budget. I did side-by-side comparisons, beginning with Creek phono, then Pro-ject phono box, Rega phono, all the way up to Clearaudio Basic +. It was an interesting series of experiments, where I started discerning various qualities that different phono boxes bring to the table. Each one was different, of course, improving one aspect of the playback while sacrificing some other aspect, and so on. But regardless of those changes, all those boxes still resulted in that grainy, glassy, non-continuous sound that I grew to detest so much. Something was amiss, that's for sure. The sound wasn't as smooth as I'd like it to be.

And then I plugged in iFi Micro iPhono 2. Right from the first second of the playback, my system was fully transformed! It's as if someone had gutted it and replaced everything with brand new components. For the first time in my life, I was hearing that smooth, silky, warm, relaxed, non-grainy, non-electronic, fully organic natural sound. Something about that box in my audio chain just fits in right, and makes every other component sing in harmony.

Finally, I can say with confidence that I've made an entry to the first rung of the audiophile sound reproduction!

Moral of the story -- as is always the case, the chain is as strong as its weakest link. In my case, the weakest link was the phono stage. I could've kept spending large sums of money on better speakers, better cables, better separates, better turntable, better tonearm, better cartridge, none of that would've satisfied me if the main culprit, the grainy Emotiva phono, remained in the audio chain. So it really pays to do a little detective work, invest some time and money upfront, in order to troubleshoot unsatisfactory performance. It is only now, once I reached this entry point into the audiophile world, that I feel I can begin to make meaningful upgrades to my stereo.

Of course, the usual caveat applies: my room, my audio chain, my ears. YMMV.

RobbieGong
21-03-2018, 16:43
Good post Alex, glad for you and thanks for sharing.

Graininess can be down to a number of things.
Analogue wise set up issues Always worth checking set up is right, checking and readjusting until happy or certain it is as optimum as pos.

Some cdps can play nice but have a pronounced glassy grain inherent in their sound.

Mains is known for adding grain to our precious presentation.

Then of course we have cases like yours where one 'weak' link is the culprit.

Sometimes if you've upgraded areas but maybe not one, your system will reveal which component is the culprit and where that next bit more is to be found.

Nice one !

magiccarpetride
21-03-2018, 17:16
Good post Alex, glad for you and thanks for sharing.

Graininess can be down to a number of things.
Analogue wise set up issues Always worth checking set up is right, checking and readjusting until happy or certain it is as optimum as pos.

Some cdps can play nice but have a pronounced glassy grain inherent in their sound.

Mains is known for adding grain to our precious presentation.

Then of course we have cases like yours where one 'weak' link is the culprit.

Sometimes if you've upgraded areas but maybe not one, your system will reveal which component is the culprit and where that next bit more is to be found.

Nice one !

Thanks Robert. This experience is now making me think that there isn't anything inherently natural and smooth in the vinyl medium per se. Same as with digital, you can hear some horrendously harsh and grainy vinyl playback. So the battle is now finding the places where that graininess and harshness arises.

And if a digital playback is harsh, I now think that it is possible to tame it, just as I was able to tame my analog harshness. For example, it could be that replacing the DAC could bring one to the point where digital playback suddenly becomes smooth, liquid, natural sounding. I mean, I haven't managed to get there myself, but now I think it must be possible to get there even in the digital realm.

Primalsea
21-03-2018, 17:25
Nice post. I think all of us get that bug to upgrade from time to time. Nowadays I tend to wait and see if I still feel the same way after a few months and during that time have a play about to see if I can solve the issue by setting the system up better. Takes a while but generally I can work out what is actually the problem.

Have you tried some attenuators on the output of your CDP? I used to make and sell these on ebay years ago and they worked really well in many cases, not all, but many none the less. 14 dB tends to be about right most of the time.

magiccarpetride
21-03-2018, 18:10
Nice post. I think all of us get that bug to upgrade from time to time. Nowadays I tend to wait and see if I still feel the same way after a few months and during that time have a play about to see if I can solve the issue by setting the system up better. Takes a while but generally I can work out what is actually the problem.

Have you tried some attenuators on the output of your CDP? I used to make and sell these on ebay years ago and they worked really well in many cases, not all, but many none the less. 14 dB tends to be about right most of the time.

Never tried CDP attenuators. Are they applied to the digital transport or to the DAC?

Macca
21-03-2018, 18:21
Never tried CDP attenuators. Are they applied to the digital transport or to the DAC?

You plug your line out cable into them. Then plug the attenuator into the pre-amp. They are like an adaptor, you can try them at the pre-amp end or the end connected to the source.

They didn't work for me either way but your mileage may vary.

If you want good digital get a better pre-amp (or a decent passive).

walpurgis
21-03-2018, 18:33
I don't like line attenuators as I can always hear the negative effect they have. It may be very minor, but I do hear it. Strangely, inserting a simple passive pre-amp to control levels seems to have a less detrimental effect and can be cheaper.

magiccarpetride
21-03-2018, 18:57
You plug your line out cable into them. Then plug the attenuator into the pre-amp. They are like an adaptor, you can try them at the pre-amp end or the end connected to the source.

They didn't work for me either way but your mileage may vary.

If you want good digital get a better pre-amp (or a decent passive).

Interesting. I tested my digital playback by bypassing me preamp and straight into the power amp and then attenuating at the digital transport stage. No audible difference, let alone improvement.

StanleyB
21-03-2018, 19:24
And if a digital playback is harsh, I now think that it is possible to tame it, just as I was able to tame my analog harshness. For example, it could be that replacing the DAC could bring one to the point where digital playback suddenly becomes smooth, liquid, natural sounding. I mean, I haven't managed to get there myself, but now I think it must be possible to get there even in the digital realm.
There is where a discrete transistor output stage on a DAC can make a difference, such as on the Caiman SEG.

Macca
21-03-2018, 20:30
Interesting. I tested my digital playback by bypassing me preamp and straight into the power amp and then attenuating at the digital transport stage. No audible difference, let alone improvement.

Usually that sounds worse. Don't ask me why. But besides everything else IME you really need a good pre-amp for digital to show what it does best. What digital does best is not what vinyl does best though, so it's a matter of taste and preference even then.

Even a budget passive will give you a hint of it. But if you want to stay with active pre-amps you need to get spendy and choose carefully.

Svend N
21-03-2018, 21:12
There is where a discrete transistor output stage on a DAC can make a difference, such as on the Caiman SEG.

Would the equivalent inside a CD player be the op amp output stage? If so, then I agree completely with this. I recently had the op amps in my TEAC VRDS-10 replaced with discrete op amp boards (Dexa units), and, along with other mods (discrete clock board, recapping, etc.) it made a HUGE difference to sound quality. No more thin, anemic sound, no graininess....more dynamics, warmth, tonal range, smoothness. Well worth every penny of the upgrade.

As for passive vs. active preamps, I think a lot depends on the power amp being used and whether it wants to be driven with the stronger signal that an active pre can provide -- synergy, in other words. In my case I used a passive pre for years with my Belles power amp thinking it was great, then swapped in an active pre (Sugden) and was blown away by how much better it sounded. The system really came alive and sounded vastly improved in all respects. Caveat here is that, as Martin suggests, you probably need a really good active preamp. I get the sense that those who recommend passive pre's may not have heard what a high quality active pre can really do. Again, system synergy with the power amp and speakers probably plays a big part in this as well.

This video from Paul McGowan of PS Audio, in which he discusses active vs. passive pre's, pretty much mirrors my own experience:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh27E7YKN9s

Interesting topic...