View Full Version : M2TECH Young DAC help!
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 13:22
Hi all,
I have purchased the aforementioned DAC but I can't get the Laptop to play files via USB through the DAC. all the others inputs work fine,
What am I doing wrong?
Windows 10 btw.
Zoidburg
21-03-2018, 13:24
Check out the M2tech website, you will need to download & install the specific windows driver I suspect.
Have you downloaded the drivers? http://lnx.m2tech.biz/support/#dr
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 13:35
I haven't, thank you. I will try.
Yup,
Windows drivers, do that Jobs a good 'un.
Sounds great over USB, still have mine.
It's broke Oliver, I will give you £30 for it........
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 17:25
Yup,
Windows drivers, do that Jobs a good 'un.
Sounds great over USB, still have mine.Cheers mate. Not had chance to do it.
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 17:25
It's broke Oliver, I will give you £30 for it........Missing a zero at least there [emoji23]
Forane12
21-03-2018, 18:08
Well, if your DAC is the first generation Young you are out of luck, no drivers for W10 :( Works great with a Linux device of the MicroRendu type, drivers are native for Linux.
I have a Young DAC and a Hiface Evo USB/SPDIF converter and they both sound much better with e MicroRendu in front.
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 18:22
Well, if your DAC is the first generation Young you are out of luck, no drivers for W10 :( Works great with a Linux device of the MicroRendu type, drivers are native for Linux.
I have a Young DAC and a Hiface Evo USB/SPDIF converter and they both sound much better with e MicroRendu in front.I've read, that if returned to M2TECH they will update the firmware.
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 18:25
Serial number suggests its a pretty early one [emoji31]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180321/3a36d2a541f55efb2bad94124f150393.jpg
Forane12
21-03-2018, 19:05
Not very promising :( Mine is number 00184 and sure could not be updated... But it s a good DAC, you can use a Linux Rpi for an endpoint and the drivers are Ok. I just had a MicroRendu and it worked right away and improved sound quality quite a lot.
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 19:08
Not very promising :( Mine is number 00184 and sure could not be updated... But it s a good DAC, you can use a Linux Rpi for an endpoint and the drivers are Ok. I just had a MicroRendu and it worked right away and improved sound quality quite a lot.I'll drop them an email and see what they say. What a shame, ive been listening the CDs all day and it's stunningly good. Trouble is, I don't want to listen to CDs I wanted to use my Hi-Res files.
This will probably end up for sale now. Gutted.
Forane12
21-03-2018, 19:41
Hm,
With a good PS it is quite capable, I had a sigma11 and it made a great combo. M2Tech has Marco Manunta who is a great engineer, he kind of invented the whole USB DAC thing with the M2Tech Hiface and started a revolution. The Young was one of the first ever to be able to play 32/384, I think in that early days of digital upsampling he had his own algorithm that upsampled everything inside to 768kHz and that is why it sounds so good.
Of course if you get a good price for it and you can upgrade to a Chord Qutest that is another story but if you like what you are hearing a MicroRendu would do miracles to it, one of the older versions could be bought cheap.
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 20:09
I have a very good linear PSU with it. The PSU case (Glued) has separated slight in the post so will need a minor repair but the DAC sounds absolutely fantastic. Its made me see there is light in the Digital tunnel.
I don't really want to go down the route of buying more bits and pieces. I wanted to use USB direct even though it's probably no where near Hi Fidelity. It's more about being able to listen to my HiRes files on the main system. If it can't provide that function, I'll sell it and try something that will. Just disappointing as it sounds fantastic.
Stratmangler
21-03-2018, 20:10
Have you tried Win7 drivers and the like?
Win10 is supposed to be retro compatible.
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 20:11
Have you tried Win7 drivers and the like?
Win10 is supposed to be retro compatible.I haven't done anything yet, got a massive presentation to do tomorrow so just Plummer the CDP in and enjoyed it all day while I've worked.
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 21:19
Ok, tried every driver on their page and nothing. Not a single note.
Bollocks.
Cheap usb to spdif converter ?
Bigman80
21-03-2018, 23:05
Cheap usb to spdif converter ?Not a bad shout Mikey.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 08:39
Not very promising :( Mine is number 00184 and sure could not be updated... But it s a good DAC, you can use a Linux Rpi for an endpoint and the drivers are Ok. I just had a MicroRendu and it worked right away and improved sound quality quite a lot.No help available from M2TECH. There is no firmware update so it's game over.
Decided I like the sound so much that I'm going to try and pick up an old laptop and run Linux on it.
That was M2TECH's suggestion
walpurgis
22-03-2018, 08:41
Were they specific about which Linux? There's a heck of a lot of them.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 08:42
Were they specific about which Linux? There's a heck of a lot of them.They weren't, presume that means any?
walpurgis
22-03-2018, 08:46
They weren't, presume that means any?
In that case, you might find Linux Mint 18.3 (which I think is the latest iteration) easy to use and comprehensive.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 08:47
In that case, you might find Linux Mint 18.3 (which I think is the latest iteration) easy to use and comprehensive.Cheers mate, I'm reluctant to run it as a side by side on the laptop I own. I'll see what comes up.
walpurgis
22-03-2018, 08:59
If you get a live boot CD, you can run it directly from the CD without installing just to try things out. I've done it loads of times.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linux-Mint-2018-Latest-32-64-Bit-Live-Install-DVD-18-3-Sylvia-Boot-99p/162663650025?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 09:41
If you get a live boot CD, you can run it directly from the CD without installing just to try things out. I've done it loads of times.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linux-Mint-2018-Latest-32-64-Bit-Live-Install-DVD-18-3-Sylvia-Boot-99p/162663650025?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649Nice one Geoff. I'll drop them a message and see if Linux mint is compatible.
Oliver,
another point of view from a Young owner...
I tried all the inputs and the best sounding was the XLR.
USB was good, but privy to gremlins like dirty 5V supply, cable quality and the like.
Spectral Morn
22-03-2018, 11:14
Buy a used Windows 7 laptop from CEX or the like, plenty about. The other suggestion is go down the converter route but keep in mind many use drivers as well and older ones may present you with the same issues being incompatible with Windows 10. I have had some issues with a Windows 8.1 laptop with a few I own, but not so much that they didn't work, this included an older JK converter and funnily enough a Young Converter.
USB driver compatibility with older USB DACs is not something often mentioned, as is suitability of latest versions of Windows. Of course MAC users will be smug about this, to a degree, but I have read of some issues with recent MACs over older MACS. Don't ask what as I can't recall details as I am not a MAC user.
Computer audio is a pain in the ass and its issues like this that confirms in my mind to stick with physical media as long as I can, and that said from someone who does have more than a toe dipped into computer/file playback.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 11:47
Buy a used Windows 7 laptop from CEX or the like, plenty about. The other suggestion is go down the converter route but keep in mind many use drivers as well and older ones may present you with the same issues being incompatible with Windows 10. I have had some issues with a Windows 8.1 laptop with a few I own, but not so much that they didn't work, this included an older JK converter and funnily enough a Young Converter.
USB driver compatibility with older USB DACs is not something often mentioned, as is suitability of latest versions of Windows. Of course MAC users will be smug about this, to a degree, but I have read of some issues with recent MACs over older MACS. Don't ask what as I can't recall details as I am not a MAC user.
Computer audio is a pain in the ass and its issues like this that confirms in my mind to stick with physical media as long as I can, and that said from someone who does have more than a toe dipped into computer/file playback.Thanks for this.
I did think I may just build a new set of shelves and get a transport, as is the quality. I'm bowled over by it to be fair. I'm very reluctant to let it go.
Yes, power running in the same cable as a signal is usually a big no-no.
Ok, old laptop, cd transport it is.
Gary, XLR? OK, good job I can make some cables [emoji23][emoji23]
Stryder5
22-03-2018, 12:00
X L ent:ner:
Now that the latest W10 has a USB audio driver shouldn't the Young work with that just as it will with Linux which has provided a similar driver for yonks? I've read that W10 will get confused if other drivers have been installed so getting it to revert to the W10 standard driver can be a pain.
DiveDeepDog
22-03-2018, 12:54
Macs had problems with Young drivers, I had a JK 32 which relied on them,(2015) there was some support from a Canadian dac manufacturer I can't remember, but I swapped to Cuinas that was plug n play.
Computer Audio Forum was helpful back then...
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 13:04
X L ent:ner:[emoji23][emoji23]
Just stick windows 7 on a beater laptop just for music , job done.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 14:03
Just stick windows 7 on a beater laptop just for music , job done.Cheers Gary, that's the plan now
Oh I've just remembered that the early M2Tech devices worked via a block transfer mode of some sort, I expect this is why standard drivers don't work. W7 seems like a good approach.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 18:06
Oh I've just remembered that the early M2Tech devices worked via a block transfer mode of some sort, I expect this is why standard drivers don't work. W7 seems like a good approach.Great, thank you. I'm going to have a go at putting linux on the laptop for a quick check to see if it works with that.
walpurgis
22-03-2018, 18:35
Great, thank you. I'm going to have a go at putting linux on the laptop for a quick check to see if it works with that.
You can run Linux from a partition and keep your Windows on the computer.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 18:36
You can run Linux from a partition and keep your Windows on the computer.Ye, I need to get all the family pics and videos off first lol, there's not a lot to partition [emoji23]
walpurgis
22-03-2018, 18:43
Not sure of the package size for the latest Linux, but it shouldn't need too much drive space.
Bigman80
22-03-2018, 18:49
Not sure of the package size for the latest Linux, but it shouldn't need too much drive space.I'll have a look Geoff.
Bigman80
26-03-2018, 13:27
Managed to get a hold of a banger laptop on loan. Installed the drivers and threw the cheapest USB cable in the world at it.
It works and sounds better than it has any right to. Loses out a bit to the CDP in resolution and soundstage, probably due to the cable but, it's good enough for me to delve further into a good quality USB cable and see where that leaves me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/c1bfe99420278ff6dade5b36f65d0496.jpg
Bigman80
26-03-2018, 13:28
Oh, should also mention, that's an Avondale PSU which came with it. Only realised when I took it apart to fix the non working LED.
Well done getting it sorted Oli. At least it gets you up and running.
Bigman80
26-03-2018, 13:36
Well done getting it sorted Oli. At least it gets you up and running.Cheers Jim, it's a really good bit of kit this M2TECH! Love a good workaround. When life gives you lemons..........
Managed to get a hold of a banger laptop on loan. Installed the drivers and threw the cheapest USB cable in the world at it.
It works and sounds better than it has any right to. Loses out a bit to the CDP in resolution and soundstage, probably due to the cable but, it's good enough for me to delve further into a good quality USB cable and see where that leaves me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/c1bfe99420278ff6dade5b36f65d0496.jpg
I would get a Lindy cable, as they are guaranteed to be properly in spec and are very cheap compared to ‘audiophile’ cables.
Also, is your computer set up for ASIO or WASAPI? This can make the differences that you are hearing with either one bringing more clarity and focus, and no resampling by Windows.
Bigman80
04-04-2018, 08:39
I would get a Lindy cable, as they are guaranteed to be properly in spec and are very cheap compared to ‘audiophile’ cables.
Also, is your computer set up for ASIO or WASAPI? This can make the differences that you are hearing with either one bringing more clarity and focus, and no resampling by Windows.Thanks for the recommendation.
How do I find out it's configuration. Obviously, the less processing before the dac is preferred
Thanks for the recommendation.
How do I find out it's configuration. Obviously, the less processing before the dac is preferred
Best thing to do would be install Foobar2000 and follow this guide: http://newarchive.cambridgeaudio.com/media/windows_7_wasapi_setup-1353494368.pdf
Bigman80
07-04-2018, 12:03
Any joy?Hi Neil,
I was going to update the thread today, thanks for the nudge lol
Well, foobar offers the option to use the M2TECH kernel which I believe operates in the same fashion as the bypass you mentioned. Soundwise it's greatly improved detail and space so worthwhile having a play around. I've got about 500gb of files now on a WD passport but the XP drivers dont exist for it so I can't use it with the craptop (laptop). I'm going to stump up a few quid for a Windows 7 laptop from somewhere and see how that goes. I am loving the DAC though. My analogue side is still better but it has closed the gap some way.
Oliver,
install this driver if Asio’s not an option in your playback software’s options.
ASIO4ALL.
http://www.asio4all.org/
ASIO’s what you want, spent a big chunk of my life looking into and worrying about this stuff, and happened to have the Young as my main Dac,
Thank me later. :)
The Youngs an absolute class act, a gamechanger for its time and price bracket.
For refernce, MASSIVLY better than Audiolabs MDac which at the time was the one to beat.
Still loving mine.
Glad that the results are improving. Set up right computers / USB beat CD transports IMO.
I agree with Gaz, have always gotten the best results with ASIO and WASAPI. ASIO4ALL well worth a try. [emoji4]
Bigman80
07-04-2018, 16:04
Oliver,
install this driver if Asio’s not an option in your playback software’s options.
ASIO4ALL.
http://www.asio4all.org/
ASIO’s what you want, spent a big chunk of my life looking into and worrying about this stuff, and happened to have the Young as my main Dac,
Thank me later. :)
The Youngs an absolute class act, a gamechanger for its time and price bracket.
For refernce, MASSIVLY better that Audiolabs MDac which at the time was the one to beat.
Still loving mine.Cheers Gaz & Neil, as soon as I get the new laptop I'll sort it out
Bigman80
03-05-2018, 14:05
Bit of an update,
After spending a week or two using a banger laptop, which constantly lost the drivers for the DAC, I decided to mount a disc version of Linux mint on my W10 laptop.
After about an hour F#cking about with trying to burn an ISO to DVD (USB just wouldn't work) I managed to get it on.
Using the Standard player and my USB, I couldn't get any sound out of the DAC. Realising there may be an "output" setting, I found it and set it to "M2TECH" and Voila!!! It works.
I'm not sure how or why, but this sounds WAY better than when I used WXP on the banger laptop and I'm really quite shocked at the difference. I am so pleased the DAC didn't sell!!!
Now, I don't have the option to run LM and W10 side by side so that will be the next avenue of investigation.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180503/272b3c0117ab05f1fb33c22aef738d74.jpg
could partition the hdd and run with 2 os.
Bigman80
03-05-2018, 14:28
I'm gonna try that, Grant. I don't seem to have 24/96 playback capabilities?
could partition the hdd and run with 2 os.
I'm gonna try that, Grant. I don't seem to have 24/96 playback capabilities?
might be the player. see if it can be set to upscale.
Bigman80
03-05-2018, 14:36
I'll have a look, might be because it's only a temp disc load?
I'll have a look, might be because it's only a temp disc load?
might be because its a disc os that its not doing it.
Bigman80
03-05-2018, 15:01
Yep, there's no option on the player so I presume that's why. Hmm, I'll see if I can get LM side loaded and see what happens then.
might be because its a disc os that its not doing it.
eldarvanyar
03-05-2018, 22:57
I’m not sure if it has been said as I have only scanned through quickly. You could use a raspberry pi to read the files and stream to the DAC. You could put one together for about £40 and use a dedicated sw such as Rune or Pidac which runs like a Logitech squeezbox and control it from a phone or tablet. Here’s a link to one blog
http://www.pimusicbox.com/
Bigman80
04-05-2018, 06:50
I’m not sure if it has been said as I have only scanned through quickly. You could use a raspberry pi to read the files and stream to the DAC. You could put one together for about £40 and use a dedicated sw such as Rune or Pidac which runs like a Logitech squeezbox and control it from a phone or tablet. Here’s a link to one blog
http://www.pimusicbox.com/I'm not really sure how they work and it would have to be WiFi too as the internet router is quite far away. Looks like even more aggro !
I'm not sure how or why, but this sounds WAY better than when I used WXP on the banger laptop and I'm really quite shocked at the difference. I am so pleased the DAC didn't sell!!!
There are some real reasons why. Windows XP uses Kmixer that among other things resamples signals to 48kHz, and it is not bit perfect, Kmixer manages to mangle it, and it is also not a low level process, the audio signal gets no priority.
This is why it is so important to ensure that the system is outputting what’s fed to it, which is why it’s required to have lower level software like WASAPI or ASIO, or manufacturer drivers, to bypass the Windows mixer, ensure no resampling, and enjoy bit perfect files.
Bigman80
04-05-2018, 17:31
There are some real reasons why. Windows XP uses Kmixer that among other things resamples signals to 48kHz, and it is not bit perfect, Kmixer manages to mangle it, and it is also not a low level process, the audio signal gets no priority.
This is why it is so important to ensure that the system is outputting what’s fed to it, which is why it’s required to have lower level software like WASAPI or ASIO, or manufacturer drivers, to bypass the Windows mixer, ensure no resampling, and enjoy bit perfect files.Top stuff, mate. I knew there was a reason it was better, just didn't know the reason!
Stratmangler
04-09-2019, 07:37
A recent Win10 update brought an obsolete (made obsolete by a Win7 to Win10 "upgrade") audio interface back to life for me.
The device, an EMU 0404USB, is a class 2 device, and Windows 10 now supports class 2 devices natively (ie Windows 10 is getting away from the Windows "proprietary drivers" way of doing things).
The Young DAC MkI is also a class 2 device - the chances are that it is now supported by Windows 10.
Lawrence001
04-09-2019, 09:54
Would be interested to know if anyone can try it.
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
Stratmangler
04-09-2019, 10:03
That it would.
In all the fiddling I've done recently Windows 10 sees the full capability of class 2 devices natively. The M2 Young dac uses the Hiface usb interface which Windows 10 supports.
As of ver. 1703 Windows 10 supports class 2 - current version is 1903.
There is some discussion on t'internet that the hiface driver (as updated for Windows 10) is better than the Windows 10 driver.
But I think Oli has moved onto an RPi solution since this thread.
Stratmangler
04-09-2019, 10:35
That the devices are seen natively is a good thing.
If you were using Foobar to play music through a Young Dac MkI using USB you'd still need to use WASAPI to prioritise audio playback.
So part of the equation is a constant. You still need to use WASAPI to stop the machine from manipulating the data, which it will do if it's not stopped from doing so.
Lawrence001
04-09-2019, 13:02
In all the fiddling I've done recently Windows 10 sees the full capability of class 2 devices natively. The M2 Young dac uses the Hiface usb interface which Windows 10 supports.
As of ver. 1703 Windows 10 supports class 2 - current version is 1903.
There is some discussion on t'internet that the hiface driver (as updated for Windows 10) is better than the Windows 10 driver.
But I think Oli has moved onto an RPi solution since this thread.I've got a HiFace 1 and I know the compatibility is (or was) more of a problem than the 2. Hopefully that's been solved since I looked into it.
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
I've got a HiFace 1 and I know the compatibility is (or was) more of a problem than the 2. Hopefully that's been solved since I looked into it.
Sent from my POT-LX1 using TapatalkYou can but just try Lawrence. Ensure your Windows 10 version is updated. Use the winver command.
E
§
Lawrence001
04-09-2019, 20:52
I don't have W10 Edward I just remembered reading it when I was researching a purchase.
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
did anyone get a definitive answer to this?
I have just taken the Young Dac off my SB Touch and thought I would try it on my W10 pc. I had read this thread so was expecting challenges. But I am beat.
If I install the win7Vista103_Young_Vaughan driver it finds the dac and installs, I couldnt get any of the other drivers to work.
It plays and sounds good too, so far so good.
I can even get it to receive and play at 384/32 !!
BUT and its a BIG BUT
it looks as if W10 is resampling everything so it it only outputs at the refresh rate set for when "devices are shared". so if I set the shared output to 44.1 the dac detects 44.1 if I set it to 384/32 the dac shows 384
I seem to have the same problem on W7 too ???
Think I have cracked it, I hadnt clicked apply when I installed WASPI into foo bar.
lol... good youve solved it. good dacs the youngs
Big Smile, just downloaded a 384/24 test track and it plays !!!
W10 laptop via foobar2000 with WASAPI output support installed
Install WASAPI via file/components/get more components, then APPLY
Next select WASAPI (push) SPDIF interface Young selected via file/preferences/playback/output/device
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