HiFi Dealer 'Predators'

[Jasonski73]

Hi there sorry for the rant but it needs saying!

Sometimes, times are hard, then you get vultures who prey on the desperate selling the nice gear worth a hole lot more than these Vultures offer you. You get given the soft story I have to make profit !!!! Please check what you sold these ripoff artist's gear to, and then what they sell the said hifi gear for !!!
we have all been there !!! something comes up you have always wanted so you decide to sell your gear to put funds towards the kit you want to buy and with dead lines etc you need to sell fast thats where the dealer come in and take total advantage of us all !! I am sick and tired of these con artist ripping us all off !!!!! just to see your old hi fi gear twice the price you sold it to them for !!!!! angry aint the word ! but it needs saying!

Thanks and just a word of warning !!

[VanDerGraaf]

It isn't a nice feeling I'm sure, but take heart in the fact that, without naming any names, lots of flipped stuff doesn't sell at the overly optimistic (sometimes greedy) new prices...

[Jasonski73]

I agree but when you have the P£££ss taken as usual. its been the same with these guys for years !! Lets be Honest and I reckon there is a few people on here who have bought the Bull$$t and been ripped off

[walpurgis]

It's like used cars. Unless doing a P/X, you will generally be offered somewhere between a third and a half of what the trader feels they can sell for.

That's just business I'm afraid. If there was no mark-up, there'd be no dealers and even dealers have their place.

[Jasonski73]

I agree with the above, I really do business has a cost etc.. but then there is the advantage taker the one that really takes the ???? I cant say that here but its true.
PFM have just deleted my moan on there !! just shows the usual bias

[southall-1998]

Good thread, Jason. Whistle blow these shits! They deserve it.

S.

[walpurgis]

I've changed your title by the way. It's not good to aim such accusations at a named dealer, whether you think it justified or not.

[karma67]

i think its a case or sour grapes,of course they are going to sell it for a bigger sum than they paid for it,they have overheads and need to make a living from selling on over peoples stuff,thats just the way it works.
did they hold a gun to your head to sell to them?

[southall-1998]

I've changed your title by the way. It's not good to aim such accusations at a named dealer, whether you think it justified or not.


Pointless putting a veil over the title :rolleyes:

S.

[mac72]

I don't get what's the problem , if you aren't happy with the offered price don't sell it ,

[walpurgis]

Pointless putting a veil over the title :rolleyes:

S.

It's a question of liabilty Shane.

[southall-1998]

It's a question of liabilty Shane.


Don't expect me to agree.

S.

[Jasonski73]

All I want to do is warn others new to the game dealing with this company is not advisable .....

[Lawrence001]

So let me get this right, a dealer has bought something off you and listed it at twice the price? What do you think they should ask for it?

[karma67]

i have to ask,if your a member of 2 forums why didnt you offer your item for sale on them first?

[Ninanina]

I don't get what's the problem , if you aren't happy with the offered price don't sell it ,

I kind of agree with that Slav

[walpurgis]

Jason. Do not name the dealer.

If it happens again, I'll suspend you.

Thread moved to Blank Canvas. It does not belong in Private Exhibitions.

[ff1d1l]

Hmmm....dealers are actually in it for the money. They will try and sell for the maximum, furthermore they will try and buy for the minimum. They have overheads, and buyers and sellers are acquired through advertising, which is another cost. If they don't cover their costs, and their overheads, they won't be there next time you look.

If they lied to you or mislead you to try and drive the price down, I think you have a legitimate beef.

If they said this is what we can offer, then that's fair enough. If you didn't think, at that point that they are going to make a profit on this price, then you must be an extraordinarily trusting soul.
If they paid what you were asking, what is the problem? That you exercised due diligence in researching the price of your item only after you had sold it?

[IHP]

I say this with genuine respect.....the word 'desperate' is used in the initial post, which to me indicates vulnerability towards the trade in/selling angle of proceedings. If anyone is desperate to own a bit of kit (any material thing), then logical thinking is out the window and perspective can become out of context. It's never been easier to research used value and sell an item on forums/ebay/selling sites, and this puts you in a comfortable position when buying (from any source).

Being desperate to own any luxury item is not a healthy position to be in. I feel a little unkind saying this but believe it to be true.

[Macca]

Hmmm....dealers are actually in it for the money. They will try and sell for the maximum, furthermore they will try and buy for the minimum. They have overheads, and buyers and sellers are acquired through advertising, which is another cost. If they don't cover their costs, and their overheads, they won't be there next time you look.

If they lied to you or mislead you to try and drive the price down, I think you have a legitimate beef.

If they said this is what we can offer, then that's fair enough. If you didn't think, at that point that they are going to make a profit on this price, then you must be an extraordinarily trusting soul.
If they paid what you were asking, what is the problem? That you exercised due diligence in researching the price of your item only after you had sold it?

This is it in a nutshell. if you are desperate to sell you are probably going to have to take less for it. The dealer is not desperate to sell so he can afford to ask a high price, at least initially. He may also be asking a higher price to give him room to make a deal. If I was buying second hand from a dealer I'm not going to pay the sticker price, I'm going to try to negotiate it down. Not everyone does this but I suspect most do and the dealer has to take that into account.

[farflungstar]

Jason. Do not name the dealer.

If it happens again, I'll suspend you.

Thread moved to Blank Canvas. It does not belong in Private Exhibitions.I agree that merely complaining about a dealer selling for way over what they paid a punter is no reason to complain - but I thought that in the interest of members bad dealers should be named?

[farflungstar]

and how fair it is , you're going to hear just one side of the storyAgreed, but certain dealers or seller's acquire a reputation. The forum has a lot of posts about eBay etc. I don't have a problem with mark up on price - but I do wish some dealers/sellers would check equipment before selling or shipping. This would avoid speakers turning up with dread drive units, duff valves etc, and a bad name.

[walpurgis]

I agree that merely complaining about a dealer selling for way over what they paid a punter is no reason to complain - but I thought that in the interest of members bad dealers should be named?

Expressing unhappiness or dissatisfaction in relation to a dealer is one thing, but making actionable comments is quite another and can't be allowed.

[farflungstar]

Expressing unhappiness or dissatisfaction in relation to a dealer is one thing, but making actionable comments is quite another and can't be allowed.Not having had the opportunity to read the OP I can't comment. But next time I see anyone slagging a dealer, maker I'll bring it to the attention of the moderators. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.

[walpurgis]

Thanks for bringing me up to speed.

Glad to see you are now able to understand.

[paulf-2007]

If your life doesn't depend on selling something I don't see how you can whine about how much more the dealer is making over what he paid you. In this case it's only hifi ffs.
Other than a Japanese seller on eBay I've never bought from dealer scum and never will.

[Mike Reed]

Bit of a struggle understanding the opening post, but if Nial's synopsis is a fair account, I really don't understand the purpose of the vitriolic rant. Sour grapes, possibly? To encapsulate, then, o.p. , in a rush to garner funds to feed an impulse purchase, sells his kit to a trader, avoiding the longer and less certain methods of forum or Ebay classifieds/auctions. Presumably initially satisfied, he realises later that the dealer had offered the item(s) for resale at something around double his buying price. This is now considered an outright con.

Now if any of the above is incorrect (at least in outline), I apologise. If a fair translation, then it seems that no prior market price research was done, that the action was hasty at best and lastly, he presumably approached the dealer for a quick sale. I've seen stuff advertised on forums followed by posts shouting 'bargain alert', where the seller has (inadvertently?) priced his goods well below the market rate, and it's snapped up immediately. These 'bargains' are a daily occurrence and the dealer concerned simply had a good day, assuming he could move it on quickly and at a mark-up.

Nope ! Just can't see how this (ad hominem?) rant holds water, but I may have the wrong end of the stick here because of initial linguistic and syntactic confusion.

[Tim]

I think you've summed it up perfectly Mike ;)

[walpurgis]

I have always assumed that a big trade reselling mark-up was normal and to be expected. Dealers are not in it for entertainment value.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm afraid I have little sympathy. You sold an item for a specific amount of money that at the time were happy to accept. Job done, business concluded. The new owner of your old item can do what they like with it including selling it for more than what they paid. That's life, move on.... :rolleyes:

[IHP]

There's much said about ebay, but the one thing it does to perfection is to achieve market value for any given thing at any given time (for 13%).

[Minstrel SE]

Its an interesting point because I am more than a little fed up of these small traders (especially on ebay) selling things at vastly overinflated prices.

Its just way overpriced and it does annoy me. I dont know how they are making any money because they dont seem to be flexible or realistic on pricing.

I could name you anything from music centres to Creek amps or a certain cassette deck Im after. Lets take the cassette deck where private prices take them to say £90 or even less.... maybe a bit more if its very nice ...you know bearing in mind that its only going to have a working when you get it type of guarantee. Then you see one of these dealers/chancers with one and the prices can be £250. the thing only has a lower value to me so its like they have taken one off the market ir I may be forced into a rip off situation. Its approx 20 years old FFS!

Ive picked up the older Creek amps and tuners for say £40 each or in that area. These dealers get hold of one and they are suddenly listed at £150+ with no servicing on them or added value for money. Then the private sellers see the dealer listing and starting prices go up and up

So these traders must be bidding on the private market and they are generally driving prices up. Ok they can sell at any price they want so who is paying those prices because I have a good idea of what things are actually worth.

Yes you can tell me about market forces so maybe my annoyance is directed at those who buy at the higher prices. Capitalism when I want a bargain :D

[Macca]

Its an interesting point because I am more than a little fed up of these small traders especially on ebay selling things at vastly over inflated prices.

Its just way overpriced and it does annoy me. I dont know how that are making any money because they dont sem to be flexible or realistic on pricing.

I could name you anything from music centres to Creek amps or a certain cassette deck Im after. Lets take the cassette deck where private prices take them to say £80 or even less. maybe a bit more if its very nice...you know bearing in mind that its only going to have a months guarantee if that. Then you see one of these dealers/chancers with one and the prices can be £250.

Ive picked up the older Creek amps and tuners for say £30 each or in that area. These dealers get hold of one and they are suddenly listed at £150+ with no servicing on them or added value for money. Then the private sellers see the dealer listing and starting prices go up and up

So these traders must be bidding on the private market and they are generally driving prices up.Ok they can sell at any price they want so who is paying those prices because I have a good idea of what things are actually worth.

Things get talked up on forums though. Creek amps are a good example. The bloke who bought one new in 1986 decides in 2018 he might as well sell it as it has sat unused for 15 years. He's not short of cash. He figures that it is old, that technology must have moved on, and so no-one will want it. So he sticks it on Gumtree for £20 just to get rid.

But say before he does that he idly decides to google it and of course he comes across all sorts of forum posts saying 'Yes, old Creek amps, still excellent bits of kit, worth looking out for'. So he prices it at £90 instead.

I put up a review on here years ago of a CDP player titled 'The Best CD Player In The World?' - despite the question mark and the fact that the thread title was obvious click-bait/tongue in cheek almost anytime I see one of these players advertised on eBay there is a link to that thread and even some quotes lifted from it. Sort of scary and amusing all at the same time.

[Minstrel SE]

Yes thats all very true. The market will drive it to a level that people will pay for it. That said the dealers seem to have the time to leave it listed until a mug comes along. Its still niggles though because I wonder who is paying top dollar for the deck I mention when it will need a full check over anyway.

It just cheeses me off to see a dealer take these products beyond a reasonable price for what they are. The housing market springs to mind :)

When I have seen them go for £40 it rubs salt in that I didnt buy earlier :)

[Macca]

Some people would rather buy used from a dealer than from a private seller, even if that means paying a 50 percent premiuim. They like the implied peace of mind. Same sort of people to whom it is very easy to sell insurance to. There are quite a lot of them about.

[IHP]

A dealer listing something on ebay at a perceived unrealistic price combined with someone being perceived as a mug for paying that price is simply one perception of actual market value of that item at that time.

[paulf-2007]

Nobody is being forced to buy anything, simples. As has been said eBay finds the market price, providing stuff is selling at those prices. When I decide to move something on, I sell at a sensible price and it goes quickly. It's easy to then think I could have got more, but then I may have it hanging around long enough to change my mind. I have two things for sale on lenco heaven, I'm sticking to my price even though there are no takers right now, but then I'm not bothered one way or the other.

[RobbieGong]

Having to raise funds quickly to bag something you've seen is no excuse to accept any old price on something your selling towards that.

You either take whats offered or you dont.

As already said dealers are in this to make money and thats obvious and usually fair enough, it's business.

I've been in the same situation before having to move fast and raise funds quickly to bag something I really want.

There are other ways to raise the funds quickly. Rather than sell what I have for small change I'll use my credit card (thats what it's there for, emergencies and times like these when funds are required quickly)

Afterwards, I then sell what I have my way, in my own time asking what I would like and feel is fair for it and then pay off the credit card amount with that - always worked for me, no issues and I owe no one anything.

I dont see the point in complaining afterwards when you see it up for a lot more than you received, no arms were twisted behind the back, no gun to head.

In life we have to live with the decisions we make and move on

[Mike Reed]

because I am more than a little fed up WITH these small traders (especially on ebay) selling things at vastly overinflated prices.

Its just way overpriced and it does annoy me. I dont know how they are making any money because they dont seem to be flexible or realistic on pricing.



Why? How do you know they ARE selling these things? The market will determine whether the trader makes a living, and the odd thing is that eventually the item may well sell because a punter who's after one decides that it's actually good value for him, even if not for you. These are probably BINs, but sometimes there are an offer facilities; these, i.m.o., allow flexibility, although they probably cost more.

[Stratmangler]

Hi there sorry for the rant but it needs saying!

Sometimes, times are hard, then you get vultures who prey on the desperate selling the nice gear worth a hole lot more than these Vultures offer you. You get given the soft story I have to make profit !!!! Please check what you sold these ripoff artist's gear to, and then what they sell the said hifi gear for !!!
we have all been there !!! something comes up you have always wanted so you decide to sell your gear to put funds towards the kit you want to buy and with dead lines etc you need to sell fast thats where the dealer come in and take total advantage of us all !! I am sick and tired of these con artist ripping us all off !!!!! just to see your old hi fi gear twice the price you sold it to them for !!!!! angry aint the word ! but it needs saying!

Thanks and just a word of warning !!

So you're berating someone that takes your gear off your hands at a price that enables them to sell it on at a worthwhile profit?
What's the problem?

It sounds like sour grapes to me!
They didn't force you to accept their offer.
If you're offended by the offer just turn it down.
They won't be offended by you turning it down, and you can work your bollocks off trying to flog it off through the classifieds/forums/auction sites etc.

Your expectation that they should give you top dollar for your highly desirable (so desirable that you're looking to offload it immediately) kit is, quite frankly, ridiculous, and on top of that, the risk is all theirs, not yours.

Welcome to the real world.
Times are hard for everyone.

[Minstrel SE]

Some people would rather buy used from a dealer than from a private seller, even if that means paying a 50 percent premiuim. They like the implied peace of mind. Same sort of people to whom it is very easy to sell insurance to. There are quite a lot of them about.

What do they really add though especially for people like me who know I may be inside it anyway with a soldering iron. These are used products with the main example being around 20 years old.

What guarantee do thay actually give and I dont want to pay double the price for that guarantee anyway. Ive enough faith in the product and my ability to ask questions. I trust private sellers more in most cases because they dont have the agenda to justify a large price hike.

IHP brushes over the fact that I will study the market for a while building up a knowledge of what they have been selling for. I know the value of money today and the market was finding its own value before the dealers stepped in. All these dealers really do is inflate the market while adding little or nothing of value. They can do that in the new market as well but at least they may be offering a demo in a shop

Its like the used car dealers wiping an oily rag over the engine and charging a huge mark up.

Really we dont need dealers getting their grubby hands on the nostalgia/used hi fi market :)

[hifinutt]

agreed with above , its extremely hard to sell kit these days . just witness how many threads go on and on.......till you are sick of them

having a good dealer means a] you get to demo fab stuff b] you sometimes can get interest free credit as i did with my last purchase which was extremely good value c] there is back up when it goes wrong and d] you can part ex your stuff

win win situation

i have some fab gear here on demo at the moment and its great fun

[killie99]

Quite an enlightening thread to see different people's expectations, I suspect the complainers have never ran a small business.

It was quite shocking to read dealers are selling items for a profit, who'd have thought that would happen?

Nobody is forcing someone to sell, that's the free choice of the seller.
Nobody is forcing someone to buy, that's the free choice of the buyer.

An item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. It's not sellers who are pushing prices up, it's the buyers.

I'd love to have had the foresight to have bought a stack of 301's, 401's, 3009's, 3012's and Tannoy Red's 20 years ago for buttons and sold them now for a small fortune. Because I'm not a dealer would I be classed as a savvy buyer but if I was a dealer I'd be classed as a scumbag?

Think some people need a reality check.

[Marco]

Excellent post, Stuart. I concur completely.

I'd also add that dabbling in the use of hi-fi equipment should only be for those who can *comfortably* afford to do so. It's a luxury item, after all, that no-one NEEDS to have, unless they can afford it. Therefore, no-one should be 'desperate' to sell stuff for a profit, in the sense of keeping the bailiffs away from the door, or such like.

If that's the position you're in, then find another (less expensive) hobby!

Marco.

[speedracer]

I am a bit late to this thread, but in the words of Talking Heads, it's the "same as it ever was". No-one forces you to sell to a dealer, and if you don't like the price they offer don't take it. Remember, to us it is a hobby, to dealers it is a living, same goes for almost anything that has a second hand value, be it cars, watches, even records. It has been said above that despite being on two fora you sold to a dealer, so did you advertise said kit before you approached a dealer? Just because they advertise for a certain price is no guarantee they will achieve that price, one in particular comes to mind, who has some lovely stuff in at eye watering prices, but I have found if you tell them what to pay you can usually agree somewhere in the middle, to their advantage of course. It is just commerce, a "desperate" seller, to use your word, has a much weakened hand when it comes to doing a deal I am afraid.

[struth]

Excellent post, Stuart. I concur completely.

I'd also add that dabbling in the use of hi-fi equipment should only be for those who can *comfortably* afford to do so. It's a luxury item, after all, that no-one NEEDS to have, unless they can afford it. Therefore, no-one should be 'desperate' to sell stuff, in the sense of keeping the bailiffs away from the door, or such like.

If that's the position you're in, then find another hobby!

Marco.

up to a point i agree, and folk shouldnt get themselves in debt etc for sake of a stereo. cars, if needed for work etc, and houses come first, but sometimes peoples' situations can change dramatically and quickly. it doesnt take a lot to push the majority of the population into difficult positions. that is just a fact of life in a society where you have most of the money in a few folks hands. illness, job loss or a host of others can really put a crimp on your life, pretty quick

[Marco]

I know where you're coming from, and that's fine. However, there is also a tendency for some folks lives to revolve around hi-fi, almost as if life can't continue without it, which quite simply is unhealthy, and also a little sad. I'd never get so worked up about bits of kit!

Other than friends and family/kids, your life shouldn't 'revolve around', or be dominated by anything. In that respect, hi-fi isn't, nor ever will be, the be all and end all, so some folks, for their own sakes, really do need to get a grip.

Marco.

[RMutt]

I think we can all think of examples of buyers who are able to take advantage of the unwary, house clearance people and antique dealers come to mind. There was once a thread on here about the morality of taking advantage of people misspelling items on ebay etc. I don't think it is as entirely as black and white as some are making out. Without the fine details of the particular transaction it is difficult to make a statement as to whether it was fair or not. But if, for example, the buyer had said something could only be sold on at £x amount and then sold it for twice that it might be a little unfair. It also depends on the amounts involved. If something has been bought at say £10,000 and sold on for £20,000 that is a big mark up for not a lot of work and very different to buying something at £10 and selling it for £20. Remember the OP only came on to warn others not to make the same mistake, not to get his money back.

[MikeMusic]

Research to gather data when flogging kit

Whatever a dealer offers is way less than you want to sell it for.
I was offered £3000 for my Pass Labs Pre so I assumed top end of £4000 and that's where I started.
Thought it would be long gone by now, but still around at £4250. Probably as it's not a known brand.

You get way more selling privately but that might take time.

House developers commonly work on 100%
Buy for £200k, build and flog for £400k.

[Thetiminator]

You have to remember that there are costs to doing business.

Say for example the dealer paid you £1000 and then you see it up for sale at £2000, seems like a kicker doesn't it.

Until you factor in VAT, free shipping if offered, a figure for a RTB warranty, his finance cost for his stock, premises overheads, his time demo'ing to all and sundry (who half the time don't buy anything) and then after all that it is highly unlikely he'll get the asking price, possibly £1800-£1850.

Suddenly he's clearing £300 on it and that doesn't include the price of the gun he's apparently holding to your head;)

[hifi_dave]

and if he sold it for £1000 + VAT and took payment by credit card, he would LOSE 3% in card fees.

[Marco]

You have to remember that there are costs to doing business.

Say for example the dealer paid you £1000 and then you see it up for sale at £2000, seems like a kicker doesn't it.

Until you factor in VAT, free shipping if offered, a figure for a RTB warranty, his finance cost for his stock, premises overheads, his time demo'ing to all and sundry (who half the time don't buy anything) and then after all that it is highly unlikely he'll get the asking price, possibly £1800-£1850.

Suddenly he's clearing £300 on it and that doesn't include the price of the gun he's apparently holding to your head...

Spot on. From some of the reasoning often expressed on these threads, you'd think that dealers were simply supposed to 'exist' on fresh air!;)

Marco.

[bobvfr]

something comes up you have always wanted so you decide to sell your gear to put funds towards the kit you want to buy and with dead lines etc you need to sell fast thats where the dealer come in and take total advantage of us all

I would twist this on it's head, it is you who wanted something and you wanted it so much you were willing to accept the deal.

I really WANT a new amp, have been wanting this amp for many months but I simply can't afford it, so do I:

1 Use a credit card, I can do this with ease with plenty of credit. Like hell I do, I keep a credit card for emergency use only, if I can't afford the amp in the first place, taking out credit is going to make my life worst.

2 Do as you apparently did and sell/PX some older gear. My choice, how much am I willing to accept for the PX, no one forces you, you go into the deal with your eyes open.

3 Use some self control. Yes I "Want" the new amp, but the one I currently use is fine, it may be ugly but it sounds OK, so I can wait until funds improve, or maybe even change my mind and end up getting a better deal later on.

I find self control a good thing.

[IHP]

I've been one of many who've had their say and I'm sure the OP is feeling slightly bruised by now ! We do stuff, we say stuff, we learn, we move on. I'm sure we've all had hurting wantitis at some point in our past, we do like those boxes, a bit too much sometimes :rolleyes:

Bloody Hi Fi !

[Marco]

I would twist this on it's head, it is you who wanted something and you wanted it so much you were willing to accept the deal.

I really WANT a new amp, have been wanting this amp for many months but I simply can't afford it, so do I:

1 Use a credit card, I can do this with ease with plenty of credit. Like hell I do, I keep a credit card for emergency use only, if I can't afford the amp in the first place, taking out credit is going to make my life worst.

2 Do as you apparently did and sell/PX some older gear. My choice, how much am I willing to accept for the PX, no one forces you, you go into the deal with your eyes open.

3 Use some self control. Yes I "Want" the new amp, but the one I currently use is fine, it may be ugly but it sounds OK, so I can wait until funds improve, or maybe even change my mind and end up getting a better deal later on.

I find self control a good thing.

Excellent post! :thumbsup:

Marco.

[hifinutt]

You have to remember that there are costs to doing business.

Say for example the dealer paid you £1000 and then you see it up for sale at £2000, seems like a kicker doesn't it.

Until you factor in VAT, free shipping if offered, a figure for a RTB warranty, his finance cost for his stock, premises overheads, his time demo'ing to all and sundry (who half the time don't buy anything) and then after all that it is highly unlikely he'll get the asking price, possibly £1800-£1850.

Suddenly he's clearing £300 on it and that doesn't include the price of the gun he's apparently holding to your head;)

so a dealer i deal with has driven from bristol to lend me 15k worth of kit for a month , then he will be driving from south coast to pick up kit plus part ex items and set up stuff and drive all the way back to the south coast

thats almost 2 days travelling as well as stock laid out on demo . all these costs have to be paid for

[IHP]

Excellent post! :thumbsup:

Marco.

I think we should be kinder on forums.

[Marco]

Kinder in what way, Ian? I prefer just being honest!

And in any case, you know what they say, sometimes you've got to be cruel to be kind...;)

Marco.

[IHP]

Kinder in what way, Ian? I prefer just being honest!

And in any case, you know what they say, sometimes you've got to be cruel to be kind...;)

Marco.

I just think the OP, one of us, had a bit of a rant and took a bit of a beating. We all replied and had what we had to say but sometimes forums can be a bit unforgiving, we might say things we wouldn't say face to face for instance. I never like to lose sight of that. Anyhoo, my sentiment was well meaning. Nothing provocative said here, just sometimes forums can forget the human dimension, lack kindness.

[Marco]

I hear what you're saying, and I do understand where you're coming from, but most times honesty is the best policy, as is highlighting the reality of a situation. For all you know, the OP may have listened to the harsh [but well-meaning] advice he's been given and will use it to his advantage in future!:)

That's likely to have a more positive effect on his life, than any amount of superficial 'head-petting'.

Enjoy your walking holiday! :cool:

Marco.

[walpurgis]

we might say things we wouldn't say face to face for instance

Very true. I tend to be more polite and forgiving here. Face to face, I give a blunt opinion.

[Marco]

One can be both blunt *and* polite;)

Marco.

[Joe]

I'm very much of the 'a thing is only worth what someone else will pay for it' school of thinking. If you want a quick sale and no hassle, a dealer will offer you (much) less than if you go through the hassle of advertising privately, dealing with tyre-kickers and time-wasters, arranging for collection and/or posting the article you're selling, dealing with any problems that might arise post-sale etc etc. Sell it to a dealer and the thing's off your hands, the money's in your pocket. If he can make a good profit through selling it on, that's a) his good luck and b) none of your business.

[Macca]

You're forgetting that hi-fi is a special case and anyone making any money at all from it is a bigger monster than Saville.