Damping blocks [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Phil Bishop

19-05-2008, 21:08

Hi,

Anyone played around with damping blocks on top of components, particularly CD players? Do they really work? I have tried housebrick on isonodes (damn ugly), granite on isonodes, wood blocks and, the latest, a rubber dive brick! Do they make a difference or is it just a case of autosuggestion - physical weight adds weight to sound? I think there is much more to this vibration control than immediately apparent.

Thanks

Phil

Filterlab

19-05-2008, 21:17

I've always found that a very solid plinth under speakers (or stands) works wonders. As far as components go all the ones I've had have differed over the years. The MF stuff seems to favour a very hard spiky method of support whilst the Jap stuff seems to like squidgy support.

Never placed anything on top of anything though, too fond of unscratched hi-fi. :)

DSJR

19-05-2008, 21:36

Depends on the gear. Naim make huge play of isolating the circuit panels inside yet for over twenty years the outer shell of the CB and Olive amps used to ring like a bell, despite a damping strip which never stayed in place..

A mate of mine fixed his CD transport using black-tac to a slate or stone slab cut to size and claimed improved performance and apparently the Cambridge 840C benefits from some internal damping.

Phil Bishop

20-05-2008, 08:56

Folks, I was thinking more about damping on top of components. There are sites in the states that use custom blocks of wood and also the USAs "Bright Star" organisation who market isonodes also sell Big Rock, Little Rock, etc which are designed to sandwich components and damp them - too expensive to send to UK unfortunately.

Steve Toy

20-05-2008, 09:05

In many applications I would expect something that grounds vibrations like Still Points would be more effective than damping, i.e: simply storing the unwanted energy.

Jeremy Baldwin of The Right Note demonstrated the effectiveness of the grounding method by removing a single Still Point placed under a CD player - the lovely Gamut CD3, at the last Heathrow show in March. There was no heckling in the audience by the Simple Simons of this world either. :D

Filterlab

20-05-2008, 10:08

...There was no heckling in the audience by the Simple Simons of this world either. :D

:)

So they could hear the difference.

Steve Toy

20-05-2008, 12:56

Filterlab

20-05-2008, 13:03

LOL! That monkey. :)

Steve Toy

20-05-2008, 13:35

I've found the thread. sq + random number sequence is your heckler from the Manchester show.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45305&highlight=microphony

Filterlab

20-05-2008, 13:45

Interesting thread, and SQ certainly now agrees with the effects of microphony. I'm still not convinced that solid state components with no moving parts are really that affected to any major degree (although in no way unaffected). Conversely I've noticed minute differences when my DAC has been placed on different surfaces, but not the amp, and I've tried that with all sorts of fandango. Definitely for me spikes work the best on the whole, and the concept of sending vibration to a grounding point is not lost on me either. I guess it'll always be one man's mess is another's masterpiece.

On another note, I must say that Pink fish has a very dull colour palette, turquoise and white, mmmm - no pink at all though, weird. :)

Phil Bishop

20-05-2008, 15:00

Thanks, interesting debate - so it's spikes then, rather than softies like Sorbothane Feet? Go on, someone explain to me this "grounding" theory! I actually now use those very expensive RDC (resonance damping compound) things from Germany which are a spike/Sorbothane sandwich! Phil.

Steve Toy

20-05-2008, 18:01

Grounding theory is quite simple: why store unwanted energy when you can transfer it to ground? My entire stand, the Quadraspire Reference works on the low mass rapid energy transfer principle.

I guess it works in the same way as electrical earthing/grounding only with mechanical energy (vibrations) instead of electrical energy.

Steve Toy

20-05-2008, 18:06

On another note, I must say that Pink fish has a very dull colour palette, turquoise and white, mmmm - no pink at all though, weird.

I tend to agree but these things are highly subjective. I'm sure Tony thinks our place is rather garish and bling in comparison.

Marco

20-05-2008, 21:27

Indeed, although I also agree with Rob. PFM has what's known as a 'dead-pan aesthetic'. No disrespect to Tony, but you can tell that his background is in IT rather than something which requires a little more artistic flair ;)

He should have listened to Vuk when he was offering advice on how to improve PFM's visual template. It's currently very functional but ultimately a touch bland and uninspiring. I guess it lacks 'warmth'.

I do remember reading an explanation of why Tony called his site 'Pink Fish Media' and it has got nothing to do with the colour pink, or even fish, for that matter! The thread will be somewhere in the archives.

Marco.

Phil Bishop

21-05-2008, 09:36

Steve, Thanks for your reply on grounding theory, but why spikes? Obviously, there appears to be a concencus that spikes work best, but why is this? What is it about tapering to a sharp point in contact with the ground that provides the best solution? One may think that in respect of sonic grounding, the more surface that is in contact with the ground the better, rather than spikes that give minimal contact. I assume that the arguement with spikes is they allow vibration to pass from the component to the ground, but the minimal surface contact allows little opportunity for vibration to pass in the other direction, i.e., from ground to component? Thanks, Phil.

Steve Toy

21-05-2008, 10:50

Phil,

I think you are onto something with the spike theory. I noted that Still Points aren't a sharp spike though. The decoupling Music Works plastic spikes used under amp tables and top shelves for under CD players and preamps aren't exactly pointy either. They can support less weight, are brittle but do sound better in terms of dynamics than metal pointy spikes in this particular application.

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker

21-05-2008, 14:45

Interestingly, since the shameful events at the Manchester show in the Audio Works room when Simple Simon was duly dispatched, he has since discovered the effects of microphony for himself. It began with a phonostage... There is a thread on pfm somewhere on this very issue.

What were the shameful events? That one must have passed me by. As Mike can testify I have a few bits of isolation in use. The one I have found to 'almost' universally work is the Townshend Seismic Sink, one each under the Pre and DAC. Apart from the 90Kg piece of granite under the TT ( floor not moved yet and the TT still level ) I have a 30mm bit of Cast Acrylic under the Phono stage, which is still under evaluation, I'll be removing it in the future and see what I am missing or gaining in presentation, whatever the case may be.

Andy - SDDW

Filterlab

22-05-2008, 12:32

I guess for the ultimate in overkill, one could spike a component on a Seismic Sink which is standing on a 90kg granite wall mounted shelf.

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker

22-05-2008, 15:02

I guess for the ultimate in overkill, one could spike a component on a Seismic Sink which is standing on a 90kg granite wall mounted shelf.

Show me a wall shelf that will hold all that lot and I might just try it, will need a crane to lift the granite to the shelf though.
Second thoughts you probably can produce the shelf that will hold a total weight of 120Kg, I'll stick with my current configuration cheers. I need my back in working order. :) I'm not too sure if the house walls could take the weight either, built by 'Bodge it and Scarper' a good fart would make the walls move.

Andy - SDDW

Iain Sinclair

22-05-2008, 20:37

Iain Sinclair

22-05-2008, 21:01

What were the shameful events?

Human sacrifices, bestiality, summoning of the devil and his satantic hordes, and rudeness.

Marco

23-05-2008, 06:21

I like the PFM aesthetic, and I'm an arts graduate. Less is more, and all that.

That's fine, Ian - it's a personal thing. I don't dislike it; I just find it a bit bland and 'soulless'. And then there's the bleached out smileys and lack of avatars (which IMO give more of a 'relaxed' and friendly atmosphere). I find the PFM aesthetic somewhat 'formal', however, it is very practical and functional, and I'm sure that's what matters most to Tony.

I prefer the richer, warmer, colour palette we use here, complete with colourful smileys and avatars. Different strokes for different folks... :)

Marco.

Filterlab

23-05-2008, 08:47

Indeed, in no way is it bad, just a little plain for me.

Oi loike colour!

I should add that I intentionally opted for large avatar file size limits, large text limits in the signature field, large file size limits on the profile pictures and a high limit on image attachment quantities to give this place an open feel. Tiny (or no) avatars always look a bit limiting to me. Lots of colour and lots of pictures make a forum look cheery. :)

Marco

23-05-2008, 14:27

I agree. I like the word "cheery", and IMO it's what PFM isn't - it's more dreery than cheery, purely in a visual sense. I hope no-one minds the constructive criticism!

Marco.

Iain Sinclair

23-05-2008, 19:13

I agree. I like the word "cheery", and IMO it's what PFM isn't - it's more dreery than cheery, purely in a visual sense. I hope no-one minds the constructive criticism!

Marco.

PFM is understated, which is (IMO) better than over-stated. But there's room for both on t'internet.

BTW, for a 'closed' thread that one about the Sony CDP is getting lots of postings to it!

Marco

23-05-2008, 19:33

LOL. If you've got something you'd like to say, Iain, I'll open it up again for you :)

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo

10-10-2010, 23:34

Raising this thread from the dead.........
Here's what I do with some components:
The frame from a big old mains transformer plonked on top with some little cork pads stuck onto the corners to act as anti-scratch feet. I've used one on the top cover of my ARC SP8 for years & another on the Stan-dac for a few months.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8900/dscf1404q.jpg

It looks rough as a bears arse, but I feel I can hear the benefit of having it there.

Barry

10-10-2010, 23:41

The Grand Wazoo

10-10-2010, 23:46

Are you sure the 'sculpture' to the left doesn't have more effect? Nice tuner/receiver!

That's my new experimental FM aerial!!!!
I love my Yamaha receiver - big 'n bouncy, I listen to it every day. It stays with me till I die!

Barry

10-10-2010, 23:56

That's my new experimental FM aerial!!!!

I can't see too clearly, but the design ought to pick up FM after they switch it off! :)

Rare Bird

10-10-2010, 23:56

Hi Chris
Thats what i do 3/4'' piece of granite ontop, DAC sitting on the granite..

MartinT

11-10-2010, 05:39

Hi Chris

I do exactly the same with my Caiman only in my case it's a Hi-Fi News block made of steel laminate. It definitely seems to help the Caiman's sound quality, applying many times its own weight to stop the case from picking up vibes.

The Grand Wazoo

11-10-2010, 06:20

It definitely seems to help the Caiman's sound quality, applying many times its own weight to stop the case from picking up vibes.

Yes, the reason I first tried it with that Dac was purely to stop it walking about all over the place when I connected it with a stiff set of cables, but it soon became evident that there were other things going on.

Snoopdog

11-10-2010, 15:53

The same as Martin.

I use the Hi Fi News 'Fluxdumper' which is identical to the VPI 'Brick' which was manufactured in the States.

It was a gift from Monya (also a contributor to this and other forums) and sits on the top lid of my Conrad Johnson power amp, directly above the large transformer.

Does it make a difference to the sound? It's probably a comforter more than anything as I have never been over-impressed by the build quality of American amps and the Hi Fi News brick (which is very heavy and consists of laminated steel encased in black ash) definately damps the amps top plate which was prone to ringing and audibly reduces a slight hum.

I also have a Shakti 'Stone' Electromagnetic Stabilizer (to give it it's full title) and that sits over the CD drive on the top lid of the dCS Paganini transport.

To my ears, it adds to the clarity of the sound slightly.

If you want to 'see' how the Shakti stone improves the performance of an electronic component and reduces EMI/RFI with it's passive circuitry, then put one on top of a Sky/Virgin HD box and be prepared to be gob-smacked by the improvement in picture definition and colour rendition on a large plasma display!

MartinT

11-10-2010, 16:58

I use the Hi Fi News 'Fluxdumper'

That's the one, I couldn't remember the name. I have two of them.

If you want to 'see' how the Shakti stone improves the performance of an electronic component and reduces EMI/RFI with it's passive circuitry, then put one on top of a Sky/Virgin HD box and be prepared to be gob-smacked by the improvement in picture definition and colour rendition on a large plasma display!

I was interested until I saw the price :stalks:

Alex_UK

11-10-2010, 19:28

My Caiman is in a granite "sandwich" which seemed to help at the time, but I've fiddled with that many things I'm not entirely sure! ;)

Spectral Morn

12-10-2010, 14:37

When I played with a Beresford 7510 awhile ago I did notice a slight improvement in sound using an AMR isolation foot (not made anymore) placed on top with a cotton wool pad below (I did not want to mark it as it was not mine). What the DAC was sitting on seemed to be more critical than what was on top of it.

Regards D S D L

WAD62

15-11-2010, 17:36

Hi There,

I've not tried damping from above, however I've recently been expanding my system into other rooms in the house, via a combination of squeezebox receivers and some T-Amps.

It may be my imagination but |I think the sound has been tightened up a little by using some 1" granite slabs (I have a mate who's a builder and got them for a couple of pints), with 4 half squash balls as feet. I'm not sure whether it's the DAC that's benefiting, or the T-Amp, or both...or neither!!!

Anyway even if it's just psychosomatic they look quite nice too...

YNWaN

15-11-2010, 22:19

How entertaing this thread has proved to be = particularly the references to the Manchster show (which I remember well).

monya

16-11-2010, 11:02

I've recently tried black ravioli pads under the darTZeel power amp which sits on the bottom shelf of an old finite elemente rack.They seem to absorb some detail and dynamics as well as vibrations. Also tried some stillpoints but this brightened the sound too much with a more forward presentation. At the mo. I'm trying the ravioli spacers under the original feet - made of corian I think. One thing for sure, placing ANYTHING under the amp alters the tonal characteristics of the system. Could be that the original feet are the best in this instance.